TRUST YOUR CHEMIST AT YOUR PERIL

mountai

I recently had reason to visit my GP. His surgery is in the same building as a Chemist (national multi branch). I had my Prescription filled and paid for same in the shop. I queried the amount charged but was "Poo Pood" so to speak, by the assistant stating "that was the charge for the 3 items" Made me feel a bit of an eejit if you know what I mean. Had to get a repeat Prescription this morning , so decided to get it done a another Chemist (Within 100 meters). Surprise- Surprise -- I discovered that the first Chemist charged in excess of 50% more on each item.!!!!!!!!!!
Naturally I went back to the first Chemist and demanded a reason for such a price difference. The Senior Chemist was squirming whilst trying to explain the "Mistake" that had been made!!!! There was no mistake other than the fact that they were ripping off their "Captive" customers and were caught. I was offered a full refund , which I declined , but demanded a refund for the "Rip off amount". WARNING

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DONT TRUST THESE CHEATS !!!!!

MagicMarker

The chemist said a mistake was made and offered a full refund, and you're still complaining? FFS.

Volvic12

Painting all people in a profession with the one brush. Fair enough if you were posting here to criticise a particular shop but to call everyone in a profession cheats is a joke and downright unfair.

Tails142

I'm with the op, chemists are a rip off and make no effort to display their charges, e.g. dispensing fees.

Total cartel, when was the last time you saw a chemist going out of business.

mountai

MagicMarker wrote: »

The chemist said a mistake was made and offered a full refund, and you're still complaining? FFS.[

When I queried the "Mistake" was told the "Mistake " was in "Not selling each item at competitors price"

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JOKE !!!!!

DoesNotCompute

mountai wrote: »

I recently had reason to visit my GP. His surgery is in the same building as a Chemist (national multi branch). I had my Prescription filled and paid for same in the shop. I queried the amount charged but was "Poo Pood" so to speak, by the assistant stating "that was the charge for the 3 items" Made me feel a bit of an eejit if you know what I mean. Had to get a repeat Prescription this morning , so decided to get it done a another Chemist (Within 100 meters). Surprise- Surprise -- I discovered that the first Chemist charged in excess of 50% more on each item.!!!!!!!!!!
Naturally I went back to the first Chemist and demanded a reason for such a price difference. The Senior Chemist was squirming whilst trying to explain the "Mistake" that had been made!!!! There was no mistake other than the fact that they were ripping off their "Captive" customers and were caught. I was offered a full refund , which I declined , but demanded a refund for the "Rip off amount". WARNING

---

DONT TRUST THESE CHEATS !!!!!

Why didn't you just ask the Chemist to dispense a (cheaper) generic alternative?

mountai

Volvic12 wrote: »

Painting all people in a profession with the one brush. Fair enough if you were posting here to criticise a particular shop but to call everyone in a profession cheats is a joke and downright unfair.

" Profession " ANOTHER JOKE !!!!

Volvic12

First off, to clarify. I am not a chemist/pharmacist. But I hate what Ireland has become. Country full of people who think they are entitled to everything and anyone who works hard and earns money is a cheat!
To call them all rip-offs is a joke. For instance, are all GP's, consultants cheats and rip offs? As per your question above, when was the last time you saw a GP going out of business? That doesn't mean they are necesarily cheats.
To become a pharmacist, you need to get 550+ points in the Leaving Cert. After that, Pharmacists have to spend 4/5 years in college and are as qualified as doctors in many areas. People just have the perception that they are the same as shops and just hand out what is on the prescription. Not the case at all. They have to know their medicines inside out.
If you think it is such easy money they earn, why they hell don't you go back and do the leaving and spend 5 years in college!

mountai

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Why didn't you just ask the Chemist to dispense a (cheaper) generic alternative?

Firstly --- as an occasional customer, I would not have a clue about drug prices , and I imagine the vast majority of the population would be in my position

Secondly --- should Generic drugs not be prescribed as a matter of course?. Both Chemists supplied EXACTLY the same branded drugs one 50% cheaper than the other . ITS A RIP OFF.

Volvic12

mountai wrote: »

Firstly --- as an occasional customer, I would not have a clue about drug prices , and I imagine the vast majority of the population would be in my position

Secondly --- should Generic drugs not be prescribed as a matter of course?. Both Chemists supplied EXACTLY the same branded drugs one 50% cheaper than the other . ITS A RIP OFF.

I agree with you here. For general medication, a good Chemist will suggest a cheaper generic brand that is available. Chemist that don't are taking advantage.
However, up until recently, Chemist could not hand out different generic brand if it differed to what the Doctor prescribed.

number66

Why not scan both recipts and post them here, so other people can make a informed decision when going to a chemist in your area. That is if you dont mind letting people know what pills you are taking. Just saying that chemists are ripping customers off is not much use.

mountai

mountai wrote: »

but was "Poo Pood"

lol
Anyway my local pharmacists are great
It's called competition
Go around yelling about superquinn next!

ceegee

Different pharmacies will have different prices for specific items due to their pricing structures. Some charge a high dispensing fee and low/zero markup, others a lower dispensing fee and higher markup.
For items that have a high cost price the former will be cheaper, for items with low cost price the latter will. Some pharmacies will be somewhere in between the two structures, and some will just be expensive.

Just because your specific meds were cheaper in one store doesnt make the other a ripoff necessarily, different items may work out cheaper in that store.


It's amazing the way a few years ago these boards were filled with people complaining about pharmacies all charging the same price, now that there's price competitiveness in the market people are complaining that one place is dearer than another.

MagicMarker

mountai wrote: »

When I queried the "Mistake" was told the "Mistake " was in "Not selling each item at competitors price"

---

JOKE !!!!!

Sounds like you met a reasonable chemist imo. It's a business, not a charity. They're entitled to charge what they please, and it didn't bother you enough in the first place to shop around so....

Be thankful they offered you a refund, something which they did not have to do.

mountai

VOLVIC --- Let me point out the following. -- When I was offered a FULL refund , I refused to accept it as I"m not one those "people who expect "etc. I certainly dont begrudge hard working people making a decent living , as I also (up to my retirement) was in that bracket . As for my opinion of the so called "Professionals" I believe "They" have had their Jackboots on the necks of the ordinary people of this country for far too long. When I queried the E50 cost of a visit to a local GP (Who double jobs as a TD) ! was told "Thats the going rate" --- NOT good enough -- when other GPs in the area charge 30-40 Euros.
As for Chemists ---- Many years ago, when the Pharmacist made up the various potions and drugs on the premises , it WAS necessary to have a huge knowledge of chemistry. These days, the drugs come pre-packed and all they do is count them into bottles and bags and charge us through the nose for this service. I suppose the most skillful talent they have is being able to read the GPs scrawl. Mind you , these days most Prescriptions are printed on a computer slip for them to dispense same.
DONT GET ME STARTED ON OUR "LAW PROFESSIONALS" !!!!

ceegee

Volvic12 wrote: »

I agree with you here. For general medication, a good Chemist will suggest a cheaper generic brand that is available. Chemist that don't are taking advantage.
However, up until recently, Chemist could not hand out different generic brand if it differed to what the Doctor prescribed.

At the moment it is still the case that generic substitution requires the doctors consent, though most places will have agreements in place with local GPs authorising them to replace with generics where appropriate.
Not all meds are suitable for substitution and generics are not available for all meds, so to imply that someone is not a "good Chemist" for not suggesting a cheaper alternative is a bit of a disservice

ceegee

mountai wrote: »

VOLVIC --- Let me point out the following. -- When I was offered a FULL refund , I refused to accept it as I"m not one those "people who expect "etc. I certainly dont begrudge hard working people making a decent living , as I also (up to my retirement) was in that bracket . As for my opinion of the so called "Professionals" I believe "They" have had their Jackboots on the necks of the ordinary people of this country for far too long. When I queried the E50 cost of a visit to a local GP (Who double jobs as a TD) ! was told "Thats the going rate" --- NOT good enough -- when other GPs in the area charge 30-40 Euros.
As for Chemists ---- Many years ago, when the Pharmacist made up the various potions and drugs on the premises , it WAS necessary to have a huge knowledge of chemistry. These days, the drugs come pre-packed and all they do is count them into bottles and bags and charge us through the nose for this service. I suppose the most skillful talent they have is being able to read the GPs scrawl. Mind you , these days most Prescriptions are printed on a computer slip for them to dispense same.
DONT GET ME STARTED ON OUR "LAW PROFESSIONALS" !!!!

Presumably if there were any interactions between a medicine you were prescribed and one you are already receiving you wouldn't expect the tablet counter to spot this and prevent you receiving it. Or if your doctor accidentally prescribed an overdose of a medicine, would you question why the pharmacist didnt query this in between putting things into a bag?

stimpson

I recently came back from holidays in Portugal with 200 ibuprofen tablets.

Nearly 10 times cheaper per mg than generic Ibuprofen in Ireland.

mountai

ceegee wrote: »

Presumably if there were any interactions between a medicine you were prescribed and one you are already receiving you wouldn't expect the tablet counter to spot this and prevent you receiving it. Or if your doctor accidentally prescribed an overdose of a medicine, would you question why the pharmacist didnt query this in between putting things into a bag?

Yes I"m sure the "Automatic Dispensing Machine" will point out these dangers. So will the other Chemist that I will in future visit when I compare prices.

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NOT A VALID ARGUMENT

ceegee

mountai wrote: »

Yes I"m sure the "Automatic Dispensing Machine" will point out these dangers. So will the other Chemist that I will in future visit when I compare prices.

---

NOT A VALID ARGUMENT

You claim that all pharmacists do is read handwriting and fill boxes, the reality is that the important part of the job is to identify unsuitable prescribing techniques, something which the computer software currently available cannot do adequately, and to advise patients about their medicines.

Your claim that pharmacists were only useful when they prepared medicines on-site displays a poor understanding of their role. Firstly, it is still carried out by pharmacists (though less often than before) and secondly, it is one of the most straight forward aspects of the job, it's no more difficult than following a basic recipe

ceegee

stimpson wrote: »

I recently came back from holidays in Portugal with 200 ibuprofen tablets.

Nearly 10 times cheaper per mg than generic Ibuprofen in Ireland.

How much was a pint over there? or a house?

And, as there are no pack sizes that large available in this country, how much was a 24 or 48 pack? Would seem a more sensible comparison.

brian_gall85

It's not even legal to sell that many over the counter in Ireland, hell we can't even sell 12 in a shop in Ireland!

mountai

ceegee wrote: »

You claim that all pharmacists do is read handwriting and fill boxes, the reality is that the important part of the job is to identify unsuitable prescribing techniques, something which the computer software currently available cannot do adequately, and to advise patients about their medicines.

Your claim that pharmacists were only useful when they prepared medicines on-site displays a poor understanding of their role. Firstly, it is still carried out by pharmacists (though less often than before) and secondly, it is one of the most straight forward aspects of the job, it's no more difficult than following a basic recipe

You raise very valid points. Strangely enough , I have never heard of one situation where a Chemist has queried a prescription issued to anyone I know. Obviously if occasions such as this arise , there would (or should) be a data base where these incidents are recorded. As such a data base would be most helpful in recognizing repeat offenders, and enable steps to be taken to protect patients in general. Could you point me in the direction of this data base please as you seem to know a lot about the "Profession"

radia

Different prices = "Someone's a cheat"
Same prices = "There's a cartel"

Some people are never happy!

Did you ever consider the possibility that they might have different costs (different rental, different salaries, different wholesale prices etc. etc. that each takes into account before setting their price?
Or that they might have completely different pricing models, so some stuff ends up dearer in one pharmacy and some stuff ends up dearer in another, or even that they charge different prices to different customers?

Would you expect the local deli to charge the same price for an item as Tesco?

Would you expect that someone buying a large order of an item from a builder's merchant could negotiate a lower price than someone buying a small quantity? Or that a regular customer could negotiate a routine discount?

That takeaway coffee that you buy for €2.50: How much do you suppose it costs the café in materials? 5c maybe? Why, that's a 4900% mark-up!! But out of that, they must pay their rental, electricity, staff... Pharmacies aren't any different.

What's the pricing structure (markup etc.) in your local supermarket? What about the garage's pricing structure? Or the clothes shop's markup?

It seems to me that because a lot of pharmacies' business is tied to government contracts, and the prices they are paid (by a bulk customer) are published by that customer, who also publishes expected (not necessary actual) wholesale prices, that there's a good deal more transparency about pharmacy prices than most other retail outlets!

Do you expect to pay the same price for food, clothes, cigarettes, alcohol when you go abroad on holidays as you do at home? Different markets, different input costs, different prices...

That's capitalism.

It's great that you've found a pharmacy with a price for your particular medicines that seems to please you. So buy your medicines there. But that doesn't mean you can conclude the other pharmacy - let alone pharmacies as a whole - are cheats.

stimpson

ceegee wrote: »

How much was a pint over there? or a house?

And, as there are no pack sizes that large available in this country, how much was a 24 or 48 pack? Would seem a more sensible comparison.

A pint and a house were cheaper - not 10 times cheaper.

That was multiple packs. I got a 20 pack for €2 and went back and got 3 x 60 packs for under €5 each.

ceegee

mountai wrote: »

You raise very valid points. Strangely enough , I have never heard of one situation where a Chemist has queried a prescription issued to anyone I know. Obviously if occasions such as this arise , there would (or should) be a data base where these incidents are recorded. As such a data base would be most helpful in recognizing repeat offenders, and enable steps to be taken to protect patients in general. Could you point me in the direction of this data base please as you seem to know a lot about the "Profession"

Speaking as a pharmacist, I can guarantee it happens on a daily basis, often in cases where a patient has been started on meds in hospital and this info has not been relayed to the GP, or where a patient visits an out of hours service and doesnt notify them of an existing condition or meds. There are of course issues where doctors make mistakes, and where these are serious the medical council may be notified. Where they deem it appropriate a doctor may be disciplined or struck off.

Regarding the data-base, there is no publicly accessible one, though I presume the medical council keep a record of all reports

ceegee

stimpson wrote: »

A pint and a house were cheaper - not 10 times cheaper.

That was multiple packs. I got a 20 pack for €2 and went back and got 3 x 60 packs for under €5 each.

So about €17 for 200? And you reckon that would cost €170 here??

stimpson

200 x 600mg. Equivalent to 600 x 200mg.

30 boxes of 20 ibuprofen at €5 each = €150

mountai

radia,

I couldnt be happier!!!! I dont need a lecture on Capitalism or the free market economy. I understand all about different price structures in different countries. I"m only pointing out to the general public not to trust prices that they are being charged by their Chemists. Its so easy to be able to shop around, when you know the general price of a product. EG Petrol or Butter. The problem with this "Profession" is that THEY DO NOT HAVE THEIR PRICES ON PUBLIC DISPLAY to allow comparisons to be made. If you are telling me that its ok to charge 50% more to a largely captive patient (coming straight out of the Doctors surgery into the Chemists Shop) then there is something wrong with YOU.

radia

Largely captive?
Patients can go wherever they want once they've left the doctor's surgery. You did. It's not as though the doctor sends the prescription to a particular pharmacy and they have to go there to collect it.

As far as displaying prices goes, it would be simply impossible to display all the potential permutations and combinations - different medicines, different bulk pack sizes, different purchase quantities, different wholesalers, different health schemes, different customers... What's wrong with someone simply asking before they buy?

50% more? Maybe their rent is 50% higher than the one down the road. Or they've got a 50% bigger overdraft to pay off. Their choice - and yours.

PS - you don't sound very happy!

mountai

radia wrote: »

Largely captive?
Patients can go wherever they want once they've left the doctor's surgery. You did. It's not as though the doctor sends the prescription to a particular pharmacy and they have to go there to collect it.

As far as displaying prices goes, it would be simply impossible to display all the potential permutations and combinations - different medicines, different bulk pack sizes, different purchase quantities, different wholesalers, different health schemes, different customers... What's wrong with someone simply asking before they buy?

50% more? Maybe their rent is 50% higher than the one down the road. Or they've got a 50% bigger overdraft to pay off. Their choice - and yours.

I would encourage EVERYONE to ask for a price for their prescription in future and then go to another Chemist and compare prices . Its mind blowing 50% difference in 100 meters. NO MORE RIP OFFS FOR ME !!!

ceegee

stimpson wrote: »

200 x 600mg. Equivalent to 600 x 200mg.

30 boxes of 20 ibuprofen at €5 each = €150

Ok, didnt realise you were talking about 600mg strength. €5 for 20 generic ibuprofen still seems
higher than average though.

The main reasons I can think of for the price difference are the pack size being much larger than what can be sold here (equivalent of 180 200mg tablets), higher strength tablets being cheaper to produce (the cost of the ibuprofen itself is quite cheap so a 600mg tablet is only marginally more expensive to produce than a 200mg tablet) and the size of the market place (double the population so relative costs of licensing is cheaper).

Aside from all that, the price being paid by the pharmacy here is nowhere near the cost price in Portugal, I dont know of any pharmacy here with a markup of over 50% so even if they sold them at cost price, youd still be paying a multiple of the Portuguese price. Its annoying but aiming your annoyance at pharmacies is misplaced in this instance

mountai

ceegee wrote: »

Speaking as a pharmacist, I can guarantee it happens on a daily basis, often in cases where a patient has been started on meds in hospital and this info has not been relayed to the GP, or where a patient visits an out of hours service and doesnt notify them of an existing condition or meds. There are of course issues where doctors make mistakes, and where these are serious the medical council may be notified. Where they deem it appropriate a doctor may be disciplined or struck off.

Regarding the data-base, there is no publicly accessible one, though I presume the medical council keep a record of all reports

Ah Yes the "Medical Council" ---- Another bunch of cover up merchants , who sit in judgment in SECRET . Just today , a family from Donegal sued the HSE for negligence in the matter of their unfortunate Daughters birth circumstances. They only brought the case because the HSE refused to answer questions they had a right to demand answers to . ARROGANT B---ARDS. .

ceegee

mountai wrote: »

I would encourage EVERYONE to ask for a price for their prescription in future and then go to another Chemist and compare prices . Its mind blowing 50% difference in 100 meters. NO MORE RIP OFFS FOR ME !!!

I dont think anyone here would disagree with everyone shopping around, I, and several others, were just pointing out that just because your specific meds work out cheaper in the other pharmacy doesnt mean that pharmacy is a ripoff, they may well be cheaper for people on other meds. Or they may be overpriced, though in todays market a pharmacy charging that much more across the board than a nearby competitor wouldnt be long going out of business

L1011

Tails142 wrote: »

Total cartel, when was the last time you saw a chemist going out of business.

One closed down in Ballymun recently. ODC on O'Connell Street went in to admin. McSweeney Group went in to liquidation and closed a number of branches. I could go on.

Northern Monkey

I'm on a regular prescription and have been to a few chemists to get a months supply and agree the prices can vary massively.

My experiences have been:

Local chemist in Dublin €55
Boots in Dublin €45
Local chemist in Northern Ireland £12.85
Boots in Northern Ireland £12.65

They were all the same brand of medication and dispensed as a private prescription in NI (so no NHS to skew the price)

stimpson

ceegee wrote: »

The main reasons I can think of for the price difference are the pack size being much larger than what can be sold here (equivalent of 180 200mg tablets), higher strength tablets being cheaper to produce (the cost of the ibuprofen itself is quite cheap so a 600mg tablet is only marginally more expensive to produce than a 200mg tablet) and the size of the market place (double the population so relative costs of licensing is cheaper).

Aside from all that, the price being paid by the pharmacy here is nowhere near the cost price in Portugal, I dont know of any pharmacy here with a markup of over 50% so even if they sold them at cost price, youd still be paying a multiple of the Portuguese price. Its annoying but aiming your annoyance at pharmacies is misplaced in this instance

The fact that you think a markup of the order of 50% wouldn't be out of the question tells me all I need to know.

ceegee

stimpson wrote: »

The fact that you think a markup of the order of 50% wouldn't be out of the question tells me all I need to know.

What do you consider an appropriate markup?
And what markup do you think other retail industries charge on similiarly priced products?

mountai

Northern Monkey wrote: »

I'm on a regular prescription and have been to a few chemists to get a months supply and agree the prices can vary massively.

My experiences have been:

Local chemist in Dublin €55
Boots in Dublin €45
Local chemist in Northern Ireland £12.85
Boots in Northern Ireland £12.65

They were all the same brand of medication and dispensed as a private prescription in NI (so no NHS to skew the price)

Thanks for that information. Of course the Chemists and the Accountants on these pages will explain that rents , wages , insurance , overheads etc are 4.5 times higher in this part of the world. My Mother worked for a major drugs wholesale many years ago. It was not uncommon to see 5/600% mark up on drugs her company supplied. Things havnt changed!!!

stimpson

ceegee wrote: »

What do you consider an appropriate markup?
And what markup do you think other retail industries charge on similiarly priced products?

You should be able to turn a healthy profit on 25-30%. Especially if, as you say the wholesale prices are grossly inflated.

ceegee

stimpson wrote: »

You should be able to turn a healthy profit on 25-30%. Especially if, as you say the wholesale prices are grossly inflated.

Any reason for deciding on that figure?

The average net margin for pharmacies in Ireland was 4% in 2011, I'm sure there are plenty of pharmacies who'd pay big money to hear your financial expertise on how to make a healthy profit at your reduced prices.

Also the inflated price I referred to is the cost of purchsing an irish-licensed product, pharmacies cant just ship over a load of portuguese ibuprofen and start selling them here

stimpson

4%? Pull the other one.

Pharmacies are valued at an amazing 2x turnover. You'd be a long time making that up on 4%

http://www.tca.ie/images/uploaded/documents/Pre-02%20(008)%20Pharmacy.pdf

L1011

stimpson wrote: »

4%? Pull the other one.

Head to the CRO for a few accounts if you want, they're all limited companies and even in chains often one limited company per store.

Jumboman

mountai wrote: »

" Profession " ANOTHER JOKE !!!!

The sad reality is that most of the "Profession" classes in Ireland are on the take. The legal "Profession" is a classic example of this.

mountai

Thanks for that link stimpson. Everyone should read this and see what a protectionist society these so called "Professionals" have gotten us into!!!!

nino1

Tails142 wrote: »

Total cartel, when was the last time you saw a chemist going out of business.

Three branches of o'reilly chemists in Naas and Newbridge, in the last few weeks!
or was that supposed to be a rethorical question?! :rolleyes:

Tails142

Tails142 wrote: »

I'm with the op, chemists are a rip off and make no effort to display their charges, e.g. dispensing fees.

Total cartel, when was the last time you saw a chemist going out of business.

Loads of chemists have gone out of business.

stimpson

stimpson wrote: »

4%? Pull the other one.

Pharmacies are valued at an amazing 2x turnover. You'd be a long time making that up on 4%

http://www.tca.ie/images/uploaded/documents/Pre-02%20(008)%20Pharmacy.pdf

That document is over 10 years old.;)

Jumboman

Deleted User wrote: »

Loads of chemists have gone out of business.

Owning a chemist is like having a licence to print money if they cant make it work they shouldnt be running any kind of business.

radia

stimpson wrote: »

You should be able to turn a healthy profit on 25-30%. Especially if, as you say the wholesale prices are grossly inflated.

So by that logic you should be able to buy a takeaway coffee for less than 10c.

If not (and I don't know anywhere that sells coffee for that price), why not, and why should pharmacies be any different?

[Hint: Markup =/= margin.]

kdowling

mountai wrote: »

You raise very valid points. Strangely enough , I have never heard of one situation where a Chemist has queried a prescription issued to anyone I know.

Mountai, you are showing your ignorance more and more with every post.
In a busy pharmacy this situation can arise a number of times every week.
Just because you have not heard of it happening to anyone you know doesn't been its a rare occurance but from your previous posts I am not surprised that you would come to such a conclusion!

All you are doing with this thread is demonstrating your stupidity because you didn't shop around.
If you are that bothered about the price ring around a few chemists and go with the best price.
Do you have the same disdain for GP's that have different prices?