DBS & PCI College - Counselling & Psychotherapy

irishguy1983

Are they your only options really in Dublin to do a degree in the above?

I see other insitutions offer recognised diploma's but I don't see any other places offering a full degree.

Am I missing anything?

dar100

IICP and ATI also offer degrees in Dublin

irishguy1983

dar100 wrote: »

IICP and ATI also offer degrees in Dublin

Cheers but don't think they are recognised by IACP - from what I can see anyway!

dar100

IICP diploma is, once you have that you just carry on and do the degree with them. ATI are in the process of becoming accredited as far as I know. As for IACP, they are only one of many organisations that accredit programmes in Ireland.

irishguy1983

dar100 wrote: »

IICP diploma is, once you have that you just carry on and do the degree with them. ATI are in the process of becoming accredited as far as I know. As for IACP, they are only one of many organisations that accredit programmes in Ireland.

Can you give me a little bit info there? I was of the belief this was the main organisation and the one where you need to be accredited with?

dar100

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Can you give me a little bit info there? I was of the belief this was the main organisation and the one where you need to be accredited with?

Well you don't actually have to be accredited by anyone to practice as a counsellor as the field is not regulated. But yes if you are going to work for an organisation they will look to see if you are fully accredited by one of the institutes. If you are going the Counselling and Psychotherapy route your options are IACP, IAHIP, APCP and NAPCP. Most courses are covered by one of these organisations. I would look to the course I wanted to do and enjoy as opposed to it needing to be IACP accredited. If you are going the CBT or psychoanalytic modality there are organisations for them also, others here may have more information on that aspect

irishguy1983

dar100 wrote: »

Well you don't actually have to be accredited by anyone to practice as a counsellor as the field is not regulated. But yes if you are going to work for an organisation they will look to see if you are fully accredited by one of the institutes. If you are going the Counselling and Psychotherapy route your options are IACP, IAHIP, APCP and NAPCP. Most courses are covered by one of these organisations. I would look to the course I wanted to do and enjoy as opposed to it needing to be IACP accredited. If you are going the CBT or psychoanalytic modality there are organisations for them also, others here may have more information on that aspect

Cheers

Odysseus

OP if I remember correctly there aer approx 15-20 professional organisations to which counsellors or psychotherapists may belong. Some can embrace a wide range of modalities such as IACP others may relate to specific models of therapy such as APPI or IFFP. Always check the quality of the professional body and whether it accepts the training you are planning on undertaking.

irishguy1983

Odysseus wrote: »

OP if I remember correctly there aer approx 15-20 professional organisations to which counsellors or psychotherapists may belong. Some can embrace a wide range of modalities such as IACP others may relate to specific models of therapy such as APPI or IFFP. Always check the quality of the professional body and whether it accepts the training you are planning on undertaking.

Cheers.

Any idea on how you go about choosing the right course for yourself? I am currently doing a bit of reserach on DBS and IICP for example - they seem similar enough to me (except DBS is far more expensive).

For example with IICP you have your diploma done after 2.5 years and a degree after 3 years and is a lot cheaper, where as with DBS after 2 years you have a Certificate in Applied Social Studie. Not really sure what to do with this info to be honest! It doesn't really mean much to me!

Are there some questions i should be asking myself? Or maybe asking the organisation?

Cheers.

dar100

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Cheers.

Any idea on how you go about choosing the right course for yourself? I am currently doing a bit of reserach on DBS and IICP for example - they seem similar enough to me (except DBS is far more expensive).

For example with IICP you have your diploma done after 2.5 years and a degree after 3 years and is a lot cheaper, where as with DBS after 2 years you have a Certificate in Applied Social Studie. Not really sure what to do with this info to be honest! It doesn't really mean much to me!

Are there some questions i should be asking myself? Or maybe asking the organisation?

Cheers.

Personally, I would favour DBS, if you are planning to go to degree level both institutes will end up costing around the same. IICP focuses a lot on Choice Theory, not my cup of tea. Maybe reading up on theories and becoming familiar with the writings may offer you some insight into the area you wish to study

irishguy1983

dar100 wrote: »

Personally, I would favour DBS, if you are planning to go to degree level both institutes will end up costing around the same. IICP focuses a lot on Choice Theory, not my cup of tea. Maybe reading up on theories and becoming familiar with the writings may offer you some insight into the area you wish to study

That is my point exactly! I don't have a clue what Choice Theory is!

Now I am reading what modules the are, but that is about it! having not done a course tis a bit difficult to have a deeper understanding if that makes sense!

I did ask them do they teach breathwork/mindfulness in their course but they said no. I know CIT in Cork now has started teaching that as part of their course. That is something if successful i would be keen to incorporate in my own work. Beyond that I am kind of clueless really!

Cheers anyway.

dar100

irishguy1983 wrote: »

That is my point exactly! I don't have a clue what Choice Theory is!

Now I am reading what modules the are, but that is about it! having not done a course tis a bit difficult to have a deeper understanding if that makes sense!

I did ask them do they teach breathwork/mindfulness in their course but they said no. I know CIT in Cork now has started teaching that as part of their course. That is something if successful i would be keen to incorporate in my own work. Beyond that I am kind of clueless really!

Cheers anyway.

Maybe getting some basic books on counselling will be a good place to start. Corey G Theory and Practice of Counselling and Psychotherapy might be a good place to start, it would be on every book list for a first year undergrad. In addition, Fall et al 2010 Theoretical Models of Counselling and Psychotherapy will be a bit more advanced.

I would not be concerned as such about mindfulness etc, you can pick that up on CPD courses as you go further in your training. Also, you may want to do a short course on C & P to test the water as it were.

irishguy1983

dar100 wrote: »

Maybe getting some basic books on counselling will be a good place to start. Corey G Theory and Practice of Counselling and Psychotherapy might be a good place to start, it would be on every book list for a first year undergrad. In addition, Fall et al 2010 Theoretical Models of Counselling and Psychotherapy will be a bit more advanced.

I would not be concerned as such about mindfulness etc, you can pick that up on CPD courses as you go further in your training. Also, you may want to do a short course on C & P to test the water as it were.

I did a Foundation Course with PCI College all right.

I don't think you can ever be too sure going into an area like this - I am possibly thinking maybe a 3 year diploma might suffice and maybe do an NLP course also. Ummmmmmm.

I am very keen on meditation/breathwork/etc. also and learning about that and would be keen to incorporate that if I did ever make any type of career out it.

Ummmmmmmm.

Essentially from what i can see it all depends really on if you are any good or not at this type of work! I am sure courses have differences but i think like anything, if you are good at it then it tends to work itself out.

greenie

Independent Colleges in Dawson St are also offering a 3 year degree in Counselling and Psychotherapy starting this Sept. I was in chatting with them recently and was impressed. Have only heard good reviews about the lecturers there and have decided to go ahead with them this year. Much cheaper than all the other courses I've been looking at and better payment plans too. You should pop in for a chat with them, they're really nice and go into a lot of detail about the structure of the course.

dar100

greenie wrote: »

Independent Colleges in Dawson St are also offering a 3 year degree in Counselling and Psychotherapy starting this Sept. I was in chatting with them recently and was impressed. Have only heard good reviews about the lecturers there and have decided to go ahead with them this year. Much cheaper than all the other courses I've been looking at and better payment plans too. You should pop in for a chat with them, they're really nice and go into a lot of detail about the structure of the course.

This new course actually looks interesting, although I do have a number of concerns about it.

Ok, so it is a level 8 hons degree in three years, when all other institutes offer it in 4 years?? I'm thinking maybe due to the time schedule of classes they can cut this down and also it saves the student money.

So as a new course it wont be recognized by an accreditation body until it graduates it's first students, or is that just an IACP thing? It dosen't say on the website if it is in the process of seeking this accreditation.

With the new Statutory Regulation due to come in (or not), and the Psychological Therapies Forum setting down the standard of a 4 year degree, where will this leave students if this happens (however unlikely) before they graduate.

In fairness the syllabus does look interesting and your saving an extra years fees. Is there a hidden catch??

greenie

No hidden catch as far as I can tell dar100. The fact they can do it in three years I think comes down to having the extra evening per week compared to PCI and DBS. They are currently accredited by Hetac but I didn't ask about IACP or any of the others and I presume that's down to the fact it's their first year running the course. I can't see any issue there anyway because all the requirements needed to apply to be a member of IACP are covered in the course.
I was really struggling to decide between PCI and DBS when I came across this one. I liked everything I heard when I popped in and it's a relief to have finally made my choice! The saving on those 4th year fees is a real bonus too and as I plan to go for a masters after it means it won't take as long as I thought.

endacl

dar100 wrote: »

With the new Statutory Regulation due to come in (or not), and the Psychological Therapies Forum setting down the standard of a 4 year degree, where will this leave students if this happens (however unlikely) before they graduate.

Just by way of clarification for those thinking of training in the field according to the current accreditation regulations as set out by the European Association for Psychotherapy (which I'd imagine are those which will be adopted here in Ireland), a student must complete four years of consecutive post-graduate study, which must include a set number of hours of supervised client work, all under the auspices of an accredited organization. If/when statutory regulation is adopted, this is the standard students should have aimed to have satisfied.

There seems to be some confusion also regarding HETAC's role. The Higher Education & Training Awards Council accredit the academic award attained in recognized third-level education institutions in Ireland. This is academic accreditation, and is unrelated to any of the bodies currently accrediting counseling and/or psychotherapy, although they may well require HETAC accreditation to register with them. HETAC accredit everything from accountancy to zoology in Ireland, in terms of academic standards.

dar100

A four year undergraduate degree is also enough to become a Counsellor, the postgrad study is needed to use the name psychotherapist

endacl

dar100 wrote: »

A four year undergraduate degree is also enough to become a Counsellor, the postgrad study is needed to use the name psychotherapist

There's no study whatsoever required to work as either, as it stands. I was simply providing information on what is likely to be coming down the line.

The idea of degree=counsellor, postgrad=psychotherapist is simply informed speculation. One does not supersede the other. Although there are crossovers and the terms are often used interchangeably, they are very different modalities, with different ways of working. Who's to say they won't both require post graduate training? There are a lot of colleges selling a lot of courses to people eager to work in the field(s). I think it is in the interests of those who are considering investing a lot of time, money, and personal effort into training, that they consider the implications of statutory regulation when making their choice.

dar100

I'd hardly call it misinformed speculation, here is the final submission report as outlined by the Psychological Therapies Forum for statutory regulation. It makes reference to the skill, competencies and knowledge required to become both "Counsellor" or "Psychotherapist".

This may or may not be implemented, but as it stands I am aware of no other guidelines been put forward. All the main accreditation bodies are represented within this organisation, from psychoanalysis to humanistic.

I see what you're saying in regards to the different Scope of Practice in relation to both roles, but am aware of no definitive definition of where both roles diverge. Granted, some may describe psychotherapy as a longer process, going to deeper levels and looking for personality change. Outside of brief therapy, an argument can be made that counselling also aims to achieve this.

I offer this also in the spirit of informed choice for potential students entering the field

endacl

'Informed', not 'uninformed'.

I think we may be singing off the same sheet Dar. It's a major decision for people to make. Best they have whatever speculation is available when they make it!

dar100

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012112900017

This link may be of interest to all in the field

sprinkle123

Be really careful re the Independent college degree, its big time Psychoanalysis and has no clinical placement which means you will have to do another degree ( possibly a Masters) to work as a therapist after you finish. You dont have to do a course that is recogonised by the IACP as long as the degree you do has all the components that the IACP require ie personal therapy, clinical placement, one core theory, group therapy, and clinical supervision, Its vital that you do a degree, be it ordinary or honours forget the diploma courses that IACP are accrediting as they are all dinosaurs that will eventually be obsolete. You must do a degree or you are wasting your time and money. I am on my 2nd year of a degree and seeing clients under supervision already.

dar100

sprinkle123 wrote: »

Be really careful re the Independent college degree, its big time Psychoanalysis and has no clinical placement which means you will have to do another degree ( possibly a Masters) to work as a therapist after you finish. You dont have to do a course that is recogonised by the IACP as long as the degree you do has all the components that the IACP require ie personal therapy, clinical placement, one core theory, group therapy, and clinical supervision, Its vital that you do a degree, be it ordinary or honours forget the diploma courses that IACP are accrediting as they are all dinosaurs that will eventually be obsolete. You must do a degree or you are wasting your time and money. I am on my 2nd year of a degree and seeing clients under supervision already.

IACP are only one of many bodies.

What is wrong with psychoanalysis??? For someone who is only in second year of a degree you are hardly qualified to comment on it's efficacy.

Maybe leave your tutor introjects to one side:D

In order to work as a Psychotherapist you will need a Master, although that may be some way off in the future.

Independent College DO clinical placement on their degree programme, you are posting misinformation, here is the link
http://www.independentcolleges.ie/faculty-of-arts/ba-hons-in-counselling-and-psychotherapy-studies-level-8

greenie

sprinkle123 wrote: »

Be really careful re the Independent college degree, its big time Psychoanalysis and has no clinical placement which means you will have to do another degree ( possibly a Masters) to work as a therapist after you finish. You dont have to do a course that is recogonised by the IACP as long as the degree you do has all the components that the IACP require ie personal therapy, clinical placement, one core theory, group therapy, and clinical supervision, Its vital that you do a degree, be it ordinary or honours forget the diploma courses that IACP are accrediting as they are all dinosaurs that will eventually be obsolete. You must do a degree or you are wasting your time and money. I am on my 2nd year of a degree and seeing clients under supervision already.

It does offer clinical placement and like yourself, in the second year too. It actually covers all components that will enable you to go on and apply to be a member of the IACP should you wish.

sprinkle123

Hey Dar, you probably don't know this as you are not in training yourself but psychoanalysis is a very dangerous model to use without the therapist having done a full analysis themselves which in true Freudian tradition would take about 7 years, so putting people into a clinical setting armed with a head full of psychoanalytic theories is absolutely unethical. "First do now harm" is my motto, so Humanistic is the way to go. Maybe when you do some training yourself you will understand.....
BTW you don't need a masters to be a therapist, hundreds of dinosaurs in the IACP who are fully accredited are calling themselves Psychotherapists with a mickey mouse Diploma.

dar100

sprinkle123 wrote: »

Hey Dar, you probably don't know this as you are not in training yourself but psychoanalysis is a very dangerous model to use without the therapist having done a full analysis themselves which in true Freudian tradition would take about 7 years, so putting people into a clinical setting armed with a head full of psychoanalytic theories is absolutely unethical. "First do now harm" is my motto, so Humanistic is the way to go. Maybe when you do some training yourself you will understand.....
BTW you don't need a masters to be a therapist, hundreds of dinosaurs in the IACP who are fully accredited are calling themselves Psychotherapists with a mickey mouse Diploma.

I have trained, I'm about to go for my Masters. I'm also speaking from experience.

Word of warning, don't take everything you hear from tutors at face value.

Rogerian therapy will only get you so far, you need to be practicing from an evidence based approach.

Psychoanalysis is one theory, and there are many theories, post-grad training is needed to work in this field, regardless of the approach you utilise. Either way, it is the common factors which account for positive change in therapy.

An undergrad BA is only a starting point of life long learning and continuous development in this field

greenie

sprinkle123 wrote: »

Hey Dar, you probably don't know this as you are not in training yourself but psychoanalysis is a very dangerous model to use without the therapist having done a full analysis themselves which in true Freudian tradition would take about 7 years, so putting people into a clinical setting armed with a head full of psychoanalytic theories is absolutely unethical. "First do now harm" is my motto, so Humanistic is the way to go. Maybe when you do some training yourself you will understand.....
BTW you don't need a masters to be a therapist, hundreds of dinosaurs in the IACP who are fully accredited are calling themselves Psychotherapists with a mickey mouse Diploma.

There is a module on psychoanalysis and no doubt the subject will be touched upon here and there but I don't know where you're getting the idea that this course is psychoanalysis heavy and why students would be entering clinical placement with no knowledge of anything but psychoanalaytic theories. From what I see they cover many more theories including Humanistic.

Busy baby

Has anybody completed the first year of the degree course with pci . I am interested to know the level of essay writing as I am a bit apprehensive whether I am capable or not . Any feedback would be appreciated and very useful to my decision making on whether to apply or not. Thank you

dar100

Most undergrad degrees will be at level 6 for the first year, I'm sure the college will offer support