Fibre In The Diet

RidleyRider

How important is it?

Stench Blossoms

If you want to poo comfortably, then yes it's important.

thegreatiam

no pain no gain

doctorwhogirl

RidleyRider wrote: »

How important is it?

Extremely.

Bowl health is a serious issue in this country and a lack of fibre can seriously affect that.

Vegetables are your friend. Don't buy in to the "Fruit and Fibre" cereal nonsense.
Lots of veggies=lots of fibre.

RidleyRider

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

If you want to poo comfortably, then yes it's important.

Better keep up my veges:eek:

thegreatiam wrote: »

no pain no gain

Pain, no gain applies when you're talking about this:pac:

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

Extremely.

Bowl health is a serious issue in this country and a lack of fibre can seriously affect that.

Vegetables are your friend. Don't buy in to the "Fruit and Fibre" cereal nonsense.
Lots of veggies=lots of fibre.

Thanks, I'm pretty covered so

cosmic

I find that if I haven't had enough fibre at breakfast time I really suffer. I usually opt for oatbran with a load of ground up seeds and fruit.

ling-zing

10g - 15g per 1000 Calories is a good recommended figure to shoot for

here is some i like

avocado 7g fiber per 100g which is about a normal size one,
pinto beans 13g fiber per 100g,
white beans 15g fiber per 100g
raspberries 8g fiber per 100g
Broccoli 3g fiber per 100g


best cereal is Fiber 1 handy if your fiber is low for the day

Stench Blossoms

ling-zing wrote: »

best cereal is Fiber 1 handy if your fiber is low for the day

You did NOT just suggest a cereal did you??

Stay away from cereals Ridley.

If my fibre is low I supplement with psyllium husks.

ling-zing

i did

if you eat it 2/3 times a week if aint gonna kill you its all about balance

i'll say serving size isnt huge at 40g but in that you get

25g carb (8g sugar,7g fiber)
2g fat
3g protein

so about a 5th of your rda for sugar

siochain

+1 for the psyllium husks mentioned above another good one thing to use is apple pectin.

Besides helping to keep healthy bowels there are several studies out there about the postive effect oat bran and apple pectin on cholesterol levels.

Stench Blossoms

ling-zing wrote: »

i did

if you eat it 2/3 times a week if aint gonna kill you its all about balance

i'll say serving size isnt huge at 40g but in that you get

25g carb (8g sugar,7g fiber)
2g fat
3g protein

so about a 5th of your rda for sugar

The less processed foods the better.

And I'll bet that nobody ever really only has 40g of cereal.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

The less processed foods the better.

And I'll bet that nobody ever really only has 40g of cereal.

The little selection boxes are 40g, I had one the other day and its a tiny amount. I would usually have double that if not more.

cosmic

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

If my fibre is low I supplement with psyllium husks.

siochain wrote: »

+1 for the psyllium husks mentioned above

Me too! Fybogel works wonders

Stench Blossoms

Mara Millions Spout wrote: »

The little selection boxes are 40g, I had one the other day and its a tiny amount. I would usually have double that if not more.

Exactly.

40g is a very small amount of cereal.

I know in my cereal eating days I easily would have ate 70-80g portions.

El_Dangeroso

I'm not a fan of psyllium husks as they bind minerals in the diet.

My goto fibre if I'm not eating enough is a raw carrot. I love the texture and find them really digestible.

I also ensure mindlessly eating raw sugarsnap peas, I can eat a whole bag if I'm not careful. Perfect for people who like to graze.

Mr. CooL ICE

Speaking of fibre, I recall reading somewhere that liquidising veggies (i.e. blending a soup) can damage the fibre's, umm, 'fibreness'. Is there any truth to this?

--Kaiser--

Fibre is important, however, you don't need to get any from grains. Vegetables and fruit contain lots of fibre

rocky

I don't eat veggies and my poo is just fine, thanks.

--Kaiser--

rocky wrote: »

I don't eat veggies

What, none at all?

rocky

Is coleslaw a veg? then I eat some... and cherry tomatoes sometimes, but nothing else


:cool:

thegreatiam

rocky wrote: »

Is coleslaw a veg? then I eat some... and cherry tomatoes sometimes, but nothing else


:cool:

carrots cabbage
yep veg.

RidleyRider

rocky wrote: »

Is coleslaw a veg? then I eat some... and cherry tomatoes sometimes, but nothing else


:cool:

Yeah but high in fat.

thegreatiam

RidleyRider wrote: »

Yeah but high in fat.

good fats tho if you get decen mayo.

there are lots of slaw variations out there too.

carrots, raisins, cabbage vinegar + olive oil make a nice slaw.

RidleyRider

thegreatiam wrote: »

good fats tho if you get decen mayo.

there are lots of slaw variations out there too.

carrots, raisins, cabbage vinegar + olive oil make a nice slaw.

How are you going to tell if it's good or bad mayo?

thegreatiam

make it yourself

thegreatiam

before you ask: oil and eggs whisked up

btkm8unsl0w5r4

This thread is useless without pics.......




............oh wait scrub that...............

El_Dangeroso

thegreatiam wrote: »

good fats tho if you get decen mayo.

there are lots of slaw variations out there too.

carrots, raisins, cabbage vinegar + olive oil make a nice slaw.

Can someone tell me where you can buy decent mayo not made with crap oil?

I've never found any.

thegreatiam

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Can someone tell me where you can buy decent mayo not made with crap oil?

I've never found any.

if youre buying mass produce products they will always use the most cost effective oil going. Im sure if they could they would use crude oil.

Its really easy to make so you can make it your self with the oil of your choice in the amount you need.

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Sauces_Condiments/HomemadeMayonnaise.htm

rocky

I'm making my own mayo (not for the coleslaw mentioned above) from egg yolks, mustard, + olive oil. And sour cream at the end to bulk it up.

El_Dangeroso

Yeah, I've made my own a bunch of times. Never tastes like helmanns and goes off within a week. I'd love an alternative I could buy, even one made from high-oleic sunflower oil (sunseed) but there doesn't seems to be any in the world.

Delouis-fil used to be made with all olive oil but now it's only part olive oil mostly crap oil.

thegreatiam

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yeah, I've made my own a bunch of times. Never tastes like helmanns and goes off within a week. I'd love an alternative I could buy, even one made from high-oleic sunflower oil (sunseed) but there doesn't seems to be any in the world.

Delouis-fil used to be made with all olive oil but now it's only part olive oil mostly crap oil.

do you want it to taste like helmans?

El_Dangeroso

thegreatiam wrote: »

do you want it to taste like helmans?

Yep, or any shop-bought mayo, I'm not fussy. The homemade stuff just is never vinnegar-y enough in my experience.

thegreatiam

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yep, or any shop-bought mayo, I'm not fussy. The homemade stuff just is never vinnegar-y enough in my experience.

the real beauty of homemade is you can change the recipe to taste.

If the oil is really that important to you then make it with the oil of your choice and add more vinegar.

the recipe I found to copy helmans called for oil, egg, colemans English mustard powder, white vinegar and a dash of cayenne pepper

try to fiddle with those ingredients adding more or less to see if you get the right taste.

That way you can get the mayo you like with the oil you want. and dont need to worry so much about the oil helmans use.

El_Dangeroso

Yeah, I've made about 20 batches of ok tasting mayo. Anytime I add more vinnegar, the emulsion falls apart. And I don't eat enough in a week so end up throwing out a lot.

thegreatiam

you can fix the mayo when it falls apart, by beating an egg yolk and adding the broken mixture slowly to it, it should re-emulsify.

as far as not eating enough of it in a week, i cant help you there ;-)

El_Dangeroso

If I emulsify it again with more egg, it's not vinegary enough.. you see my problem. Also laziness.

thegreatiam

you know this is now cyclical, I don't actually need to say add more vinegar do I?
besides, if you keep doing it like this, add another egg, then add more vinegar, then a little more oil, then add another egg and so on... youll just end up with a bowl of mayonnaise that never runs out.

colman1212

Fibre is important but also digestive enzymes.
Poliquin Primal Fiber is an awesome supplement but expensive.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

colman1212 wrote: »

Fibre is important but also digestive enzymes.
Poliquin Primal Fiber is an awesome supplement but expensive.

Digestive enzymes and acid supplements are a load of bollox and downright dangerous, if your on em your a sucker

*********************************************************************************

A Rebuttal to Charles Poliquin's Article on Stomach Acid.

Dr. Ralph Giarnella MD practices Gastroenterology in Southington, Connecticut.



T-Nation: Besides zinc and magnesium, what other deficiencies do those of us seeking muscle and performance need to worry about?

Poliquin wrote: The most common one, which actually causes zinc and magnesium deficiency, is hydrochloric acid (HCl) deficiency. Back when I was an undergrad many moons ago, they used to tell us that you lose about 1% stomach acid per year after the age of 40. Well, that's not true anymore because our high stress levels these days decrease HCl.

We did a study at our Chicago facility where we gave 160 clients an HCL test. Only two people passed it with a medium score; 158 had a horrendous score.

Giarnella MD: What kind of test did he perform? Hydrochloric acid is only present in the stomach when stimulated by the ingestion of meals (gastric phase) or in anticipation of eating (cephalic phase of stimulation).

Did they put a nasogastric tube into the clients stomach, stimulate them in such a way that the stomach would secrete acid and then suction the contents of the stomach to measure the amount of acidity present? When I was a Gastrenterology Fellow in training, we would measure gastric acid secretion by doing such a test. We used intravenous calcium infusion to stimulate the stomach to produce acid. We would then suction the entire contents of the stomach by way of a nasogastric tube and measure both the amount of fluid produced as well as the acidity. The last time I did that test was in 1976 one year before Tegamet was introduced.

Poliquin wrote: If there's insufficient hydrochloric acid, proteins will pass into the intestine and putrefy instead of being digested.

Giarnella MD: This statement is blatantly false. The vast majority of protein digestion takes place in the small intestine by way of enzymes secreted by the pancreas and these enzymes require an alkaline solution to function.
If the statement made by Poliquin were true the best diet pill in the world would be Nexium because it totally shuts down the stomach's ability to produce acid.

Poliquin wrote: Carbohydrates will also be left to ferment without adequate digestive enzymes from the pancreas.

Giarnella MD: Another false statement. Carbohydrates are primarily digested by enzymes contained in the brush border of the intestines. These enzymes not only do not need HCL but they work best in an alkaline solution.

Poliquin wrote: Fat digestion is also dependent on the acid's influence on the pancreas to secrete lipase and the gall bladder to secrete bile.

Giarnella MD: Another false statement. Neither lipase nor bile are stimulated by the presence of acid. The only substance produced by the pancreas that is stimulated by acid is Bicarbonate. Lipase and bile are stimulated by the presence of fat in the duodenum by way of a cholecystikinin.

If we were to believe Poliquin's statement that protein, carbs and fat cannot be digested without acid then the ideal weight loss pill should be Nexium. Nexium shuts down the stomachs ability to produce acid, therefore taking Nexium you should be able eat all the food that you want without fear of gaining weight, after all it will all end up in your colon and eventually down the toilet.

Poliquin wrote: Poor digestion of these macronutrients means poor absorption of our basic energy sources. Over the last four years, I've been amazed how a correction in HCL deficiency has led to not only dramatic improvements in physique and strength, but also improvements in a variety of health parameters. Interestingly enough, in strength-trained individuals those improvements are often associated with gains of 15 to 18 pounds of lean body mass within two months!

Why? They are now absorbing proteins and minerals.

Giarnella MD: I would be interested in testing how much HCL acid is really in the capsules Poliquin is giving his athletes. HCL is one of the most caustic acids. Only Sulfuric (battery) acid and Flouric acid are more caustic. Just a small amount of undiluted HCL in the esophagus can cause significant ulceration.

Poliquin wrote: Here are a few of the symptoms of low stomach acid:

belching or gas within one hour of a meal
bloating shortly after eating
bad breath
loss of taste for meat
nausea after taking supplements
brittle fingernails
undigested food in stool
foul-smelling stools
stomach pain
desire to skip meals
estrogen buildup
acne rosacea
depression

Giarnella MD: All false and unfounded statements.

Poliquin wrote: In the US, many experts estimate the deficiency to be in the range of 40 to 50%. Some gastroenterologists are now advancing that it is today�?�¢??s most under-diagnosed ailment.

Giarnella MD: I would like to know who these gastroenterologists are. I have attended national Gastrointestinal conventions, I read GI journals every day and I have never heard anyone state that HCL deficiency is a major problem. Amongst the most sought after and prescribed medications in the world are the Proton Pump inhibitors and H2 blockers better known as Nexium, Tegament and Zanctac. If HCL deficiency were a problem there would be no need for any of these medications

Poliquin wrote: There are a variety of medical tests you can get,

Giarnella MD: I would like to know what these tests are.

Poliquin wrote: but here's a simple test you can do at home (but I suggest you talk to a physician qualified in nutritional medicine before you try it). It requires a bottle of Betaine HCl, at 200 mg potency per capsule.

Giarnella MD: Betaine HCL is a methyl group donor that functions in the normal metabolic cycle of methionine and reduces homocystinuria in patients with inborn errors of methionine metabolism.

Uses

Homocystinuria

BetaineHCL is used in the management of homocystinuria, including forms of the disorder caused by cystathionine synthase (CBS) deficiency, 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) deficiency, or cobalamin cofactor metabolism (cbl) defect, and has been designated an orphan drug by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the management of this condition. Although betaine can correct biochemical abnormalities (e.g., reduce elevated plasma homocysteine concentrations) in these patients, the drug does not correct the underlying basic genetic disorder.

SIDE EFFECTS:
Nausea, stomach upset, or diarrhea may occur

Cost:
Approx. Price: $185 per 180Grams (source Medscape Drug search)

Poliquin wrote: Here's how it's performed:

Step 1: Have a high-protein solid meal (no shakes). Let's say for illustration purposes a 12-ounce steak and vegetables.

Step 2: Eat half the protein, roughly 6 ounces of the steak.

Step 3: Swallow a 200mg capsule of HCl.

Step 4: Eat the other half of the steak and the vegetables.

Step 5: Wait 15 minutes.

Step 6: If your stomach acid is normal, you'll feel like you just drank a hot cup of tea or feel a burn. If you feel nothing, you need HCl as a supplement.

So what do you do next? At every meal repeat steps 1 to 6, upping the dose one capsule per meal until you feel the burning sensation. So if it takes five meals to get a burning sensation, you need on average four capsules per meal. If you get to seven capsules and you have no burning, stop the test you're achloridic, meaning you have almost no stomach acid!

At our Phoenix center alone we've been doing over 250 tests a year for the last four years, and in that time I've never seen one person not need at least one capsule; the average person tested could feel it after five capsules. You're getting better when you start feeling a burn at your initial determined dosage. For example, if you found that five capsules was your initial need, you may find that three days later it starts to burn, so then you'd cut back to four capsules with a typical high-protein solid meal, and so on.

Giarnella MD: If the capsules noted in the above citation in fact do contain Hydrochloric acid then this is a very dangerous and possibly life threatening practice.

I have had patients who developed severe esophageal ulcerations caused by pills which remained in the esophagus too long. Just two weeks ago one of my patients had to be hospitalized and transfused several units of blood because he often would take his medications without drinking fluids. The pills in question did not contain Hydrochloric acid.

On another note, normal acidity of the stomach does not cause a burning sensation. I would be very concerned if anything you eat or drink causes a burning sensation. If there is in fact some HCL in those pills the patients may be developing gastritis (small erosions or ulcerations of the gastric mucosa).

I would love to perform and Esophogastro Duodenoscopy on these clients after they have ingested 5-6 HCL pills and felt a burn. Pass the Maalox please.

Poliquin wrote: Most people achieve normal levels within eight weeks even when they start at seven capsules, but some individuals take as much as 18 months. I have two clients who need two caps a day permanently. Why? Because neither one will ever escape their stress levels (one of them is a real estate mogul and the other is a highly accomplished author). Make sure that your HCL product also contains the probiotic pepsin and the digestive enzymes papain and pancreatin, as they have a synergistic effect with HCL therapy.

Giarnella MD: How would taking HCL pills restore the stomach ability to produce acid in 8 weeks or even 18 months?

Furthermore there is no evidence that stress causes achlorhydria. On the contrary under certain circumstances, which I will not elaborate here, extreme stress can cause stress ulcerations. Patients in the Intensive Care Units are often given acid suppressant drugs to prevent these stress ulcers.

Unless you suffer from chronic pancreatitis or small bowel disease such as Chron�?�¢??s disease there is not need for digestive enzymes. Just another useless supplement.

Poliquin wrote: In addition to the above HCL protocols, here are a few other suggestions to normalize your stomach acid levels. First, avoid carbonated drinks.

Second, avoid all-you-can-eat buffets, as they're America's leading source of food-borne pathogens. Finally, there are numerous herbs that can contribute to raising HCL, such as gentian, peppermint, and ginger, but
be aware that very few controlled studies exist on this topic.

I believe this is so important that my clients aren't given a supplement program until they get an HCL test. Remember, not only are you what you eat, you are what you assimilate!

Giarnella MD: Gastric acid and Pepsin are not critical to the digestion or absorption of foods.

Poliquin wrote: One of the folks I'm training is a 77 year old male, a vegetarian for most of his adult life. His energy has been in a terrible fix for some months now, along with waking nightly with back and hip pain - so bad he was hooked on pain killers for a short spell.

Giarnella MD: This poor old man probably suffers from severe osteoporosis or severe degenerative joint disease neither of which is associated with the presence or absence of acid in the stomach.

Poliquin wrote: Vegetarian diets are notorious for leading to anemia due to loss of production of stomach acid resulting in inability to metabolize folic acid to B-12 and mineral absorption. This man has found relief with B-12 injections resulting in loss of pain and uninterrupted night sleep.

Giarnella MD: This last one is another false statement based on his obvious lack of knowledge of nutrition and physiology of the GI tract.

The stomach produces a substance called Intrinsic factor. Intrinsic factor is not related to acid production. Intrinsic factor is needed for the proper absorption of B12

However there is a condition often seen in the elderly called atrophic gastritis which causes a decrease in all the substances produced by the stomach including Intrinsic factor.

Just as we lose our hair and our skin wrinkles as we age so to the cells of the intestine gradually atrophy. It is called the aging factor. Like it or not there is a programmed slow cell death in all cells. No one lives forever.

Back to the atrophic gastritis. In this condition there is a concomitant decrease in production of all substances usually produced by these cells. Intrinsic factor, as I stated previously is not dependent on acid for its function, but it is necessary to facilitate the absorption of B12 in the distal part of the intestine called the ileum.

There is a saying that always rings true: A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing - Captain Queeg, The Caine Mutiny (1954).

I was a little puzzled by that saying when I first heard it as a youngster but after reflection I realized the truthfulness of the saying.

Some people who learn a little about a subject think they know all there is to know and make bad judgments based on their limited knowledge.

I prefer the following: The more I learn, the more I realize how little I really know - author unknown.

El_Dangeroso

^^^ Can I get a link to that article? Bit hard to read it as a wall of text.

When my stomach was really bad I took the now digestive enzymes with betaine HCl and found them really helpful.

I didn't need to take them for long, just about a fortnight and I had really long lasting results. I know there's little research on them so that makes me wary alright. But I think the thing about a tablet remaining in the oesophagus too long would be another matter altogether wouldn't you think?

El_Dangeroso

Made another batch of mayo last night, this time with proper spirit vinegar which is what commercial mayo uses.

Nope, still tastes like emulsion paint. Passable on tuna but not good enough for potato salad or egg mayo.

bluecherry74

El_Dangeroso, what type of oil do you use in your mayo? And how long do you reckon kit stays fresh for? I made it once a few years ago and it was lovely, but I got an alarming amount from just one egg yolk!

El_Dangeroso

Mild and light olive oil usually. But yesterday I had some high-oleic sunflower oil so I made it with that, it's very neutral tasting.

I think I'm going wrong on the vinegar, or perhaps the immersion blender I use.

Anyone got a step-by-step foolproof recipe?

thegreatiam

the recipe I put in post #29 is very foolproof. uses lemon juice not vinegar.

phormium

If you want to add a load of vinegar then you need to get the mayonnaise very thick to start with. I use bog standard hand held mixer and 1 pt pyrex jug, smaller container makes it easier to beat the hell out of the eggs first. Beat the egg yolks (2) with dash of mustard, pinch of salt pepper and sugar (omit any one you don't want), beat them until they are as light coloured as you can get them and doubled in volume, kind of like making a sponge cake. Do not add oil until you get to this stage, then dribble in the oil as usual, the mayonnaise will get very thick by the time the jug is half full, at this stage then I add some lemon juice, orange juice (very little) & vinegar, I use bog standard white vinegar. You can add as much of these as you need to thin it to desired consistency as it will be so thick you could cut it with a knife, it will be butter like in texture almost. Sometimes to get it thin enough without making it too vinegary I add some water, however it does not last as long with water in it.

In a screwtop jar in the fridge this lasts for couple of weeks at least, I have eaten it after much longer myself. I make it this way because I want it really thick as usually I am making tartare sc or pink sc for seafood and the tomato sc and brandy thin it way down if you don't start with very thick.

I have never managed to get the egg yolks beaten sufficiently thick with any processor or wand things so reverted back to normal hand held electric mixer with two beaters.

El_Dangeroso

Thank you! I think I am going wrong by using the hand blender, the thickness just isn't there. Time to borrow my mom's hand mixer I think!

phormium

Let us know how you get on! Meant to say that after getting to really thick and adding the lemon juice/vinegar to thin a bit you can add more oil again, really slowly is the trick. Not that easy to do when using the hand mixer, I usually put the jug on a non stick mat thingy so that it doesn't move around while I am dribbling the oil with left hand and mixing with right. In total I probably put in about half pint of oil to 2 egg yolks give or take

El_Dangeroso

phormium wrote: »

Let us know how you get on! Meant to say that after getting to really thick and adding the lemon juice/vinegar to thin a bit you can add more oil again, really slowly is the trick. Not that easy to do when using the hand mixer, I usually put the jug on a non stick mat thingy so that it doesn't move around while I am dribbling the oil with left hand and mixing with right. In total I probably put in about half pint of oil to 2 egg yolks give or take

Sounds like a two man job!:)

syklops

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Mild and light olive oil usually. But yesterday I had some high-oleic sunflower oil so I made it with that, it's very neutral tasting.

Mild & Light? Cardinal sin IMO. From their website;

"With a high smoke point and the goodness of Olive Oil, using Mild & Light is the healthier way to cook." Marketing BS.

For 'the goodness of Olive Oil', why not just use olive oil. No wonder you are not getting the correct results.

Its a very strange color too.

El_Dangeroso

syklops wrote: »

Mild & Light? Cardinal sin IMO. From their website;

"With a high smoke point and the goodness of Olive Oil, using Mild & Light is the healthier way to cook." Marketing BS.

For 'the goodness of Olive Oil', why not just use olive oil. No wonder you are not getting the correct results.

Its a very strange color too.

EVOO makes terrible mayonnaise, really bitter tasting and splits if you look at it wrong.

You need a neutral oil so mild and light is the lesser of the neutral tasting oil evils.