Meaning of Irish placename

tawfeeredux

Hi,

I'm doing a short history of a townland called Coillte na Bhrancach. My understanding of the meaning has always been 'the wood of the rats' or 'wood of the French' from 'francach'.
I recently came across a collection of Irish poetry from the 16th century called Leabhar Brancach or the Book of the O'Byrnes. O'Byrne wouldn't be a name associated with the townland, but it got me thinking of possible alternative meanings for the townland name. It was suggested to me that 'wood of the kilns' would be a possible meaning, but I can't see that from a translation of kiln as áith. Just wondering if anyone could suggest any other possible meanings?

An gal gréine

tawfeeredux wrote: »

Hi,

I'm doing a short history of a townland called Coillte na Bhrancach. My understanding of the meaning has always been 'the wood of the rats' or 'wood of the French' from 'francach'.
I recently came across a collection of Irish poetry from the 16th century called Leabhar Brancach or the Book of the O'Byrnes. O'Byrne wouldn't be a name associated with the townland, but it got me thinking of possible alternative meanings for the townland name. It was suggested to me that 'wood of the kilns' would be a possible meaning, but I can't see that from a translation of kiln as áith. Just wondering if anyone could suggest any other possible meanings?

Did you omit the 'F'?
If so and if it is a capital F as in "Coillte na bhFrancach", then it's 'Forest of the French'.
I never heard of a rats' forest, but it would be 'Coillte na bhfrancach'.
'Leabhar Branach' is the O'Byrne's book and would'nt be connected to the placename here.

Mongarra

I have a book by P.W. Joyce called "Irish Local Names Explained" and in one part he has a vocabulary of Irish root words.

In that section Bran is a Raven. There is no explanation of "cach" in the book although as youngsters in school we heard it was a bold word and, naturally, used it to its fullest extent. "Cach muice" was pigsh*t and so on.

There is also the word "caech" pronounced "keagh" or "kee" meaning blind or one-eyed.

So maybe its the wood of the blind raven.

An Sionnach Glic

What's the anglicisation of the placename and where is it (i.e. county)?

Gumbi

Mongarra wrote: »

I have a book by P.W. Joyce called "Irish Local Names Explained" and in one part he has a vocabulary of Irish root words.

In that section Bran is a Raven. There is no explanation of "cach" in the book although as youngsters in school we heard it was a bold word and, naturally, used it to its fullest extent. "Cach muice" was pigsh*t and so on.

There is also the word "caech" pronounced "keagh" or "kee" meaning blind or one-eyed.

So maybe its the wood of the blind raven.

I think you mean "cac" not cach.

Maybe it's just bad grammar, and that does means Byrne's woods? That it should be "Coill an Bhrancaigh"? I'm leaning towards this, because it is mis-using "coillte" and using it in the plural as one would say "woodS" in English, which indicates possible Béarlachas to me.

An gal gréine

Gumbi wrote: »

Maybe it's just bad grammar, and that does means Byrne's woods? That it should be "Coill an Bhrancaigh"? I'm leaning towards this, because it is mis-using "coillte" and using it in the plural as one would say "woodS" in English, which indicates possible Béarlachas to me.

One letter can make a massive difference and the O'Byrnes/Byrnes have no 'c' as underlined above.
There are examples of 'coillte' in placenames:
Coillte Clochair (Kiltyclogher) in Leitrim.
Coillte Mach (Kiltimagh) in Mayo and
Coillte (Quilty) in Co. Clare.

Any more info, tawfeeredux?

tawfeeredux

Thanks for the replies folks.

The townland is Kiltybranks/Kiltobranks in Co. Roscommon. Since my first post, I've come across an alternative Irish spelling that I hadn't been aware of before - Coillte Brancs. Googling that spelling brought me to http://www.logainm.ie/43246.aspx. where it is suggested that the name derives from a surname of 'Brancks'. Not a name I've heard of before in any context, let alone in connection with the area.

An gal gréine

Cromwellian soldier a possibility.

An Sionnach Glic

An gal gréine wrote: »

Cromwellian soldier a possibility.

That's certainly plausible. What were your other sources for the Irish versions you mentioned, tawfeeredux? logainm.ie is very authorative, though I note that they even qualify 'Coillte Brancs' as an ainm neamhdheimhnithe (uncertified name).

I think though, that we can be about 99% sure the first word is Coillte.