Fast Play a problem?

blue note

Does anyone else see a problem with people playing too fast. You have a group behind you up your hole so you feel you have to call them through despite the fact that your group is playing at a good pace and keeping up with the group in front although not troubling them. So you call them through and hold up every group behind while you join back in. The group ahead does the same a few holes later and this can happen a few times in the round, slowing down the golf for everyone. If it's a fourballs day and there's three behind you this would be typical also.

I know it's a far smaller problem than slow play, but some people should really relax on the golf course and take their time.

mike12

Hi,
As long as you are behind the group in front then i would not let them thru, i would play with a fast enough group and on a full course we are happ as long as the group in front are keeping up with play, it there are mainly 4 balls out but a couple of 3 balls then that is just there tough luck.
Problem is when a group loses a full hole and doesn't start calling groups thru.
Best place to do it is on a par 3 tee off walk up to the green and let the group you are calling thru tee off. Chip on while they are walking up that way there is no delay. Never call thru on a par 4 all u are doing is slowing down the whole course.
Mike

Felexicon

Completely agree with you here.
Was in a three ball in Silloge on Friday with another 3 ball on front of us and one behind as well. The course was seriously busy at the time we went out(12:20). We had to wait a few times for the group on front of us and waited until they had cleared well out of the way before teeing off.
However the group behind us were acting like complete dickheads. They nearly took the head off one of the lads in our group because they didn't wait for us to walk off the green before playing their approach shots to a par 4.
Then a couple of holes later, one of the lads hit a lovely 5 wood off the tee of a short par 4 and when he was getting ready to take his second shot the same group of lads behind us were hitting their tee shots. Obviously this made taking his second shot a bit of a nervey affair as it was well within the realms of possibility that the lads behind could reach him with their tee shots. This resulted in him hitting a duffed approach and causing much frustration.
To add to it all it was the first time 2 of us had played on a proper course and to be honest it ruined my experience a bit on the front 9. By the back 9 I had come to the conclusion that they were idiots and I was well within my rights to take my time over shots while being sure not to take too long.

Now we could have called them through but the reality was with the group on front of us they wouldn't have gotten much further.
Surely at some point they should have just waited until we had finished a hole before teeing off as that would have put a decent sized gap between us and they wouldn't have had to be standing on tee boxes waiting for us.

Wichita Lineman

I agree. I would consider myself to be a pretty quick player but there are occasions when even playing in a fourball and keeping pace with groups ahead of us another fourball can be right behind and acting like it's a speed trial.

GreeBo

If the group behind is so fast then surely there would be a gap behind them that you could slot into easily and not hold anybody else up?
If there isnt a gap then it would seem that a few people are playing at that pace and maybe you (and the group in front) are a little slower than the rest of the course?

I think a par 4/5 tee shot is the best place to let someone through, you only have to wait for one shot. I hate when someone calls me through around the green as you all have to hit approaches, chips, bunkers shots and then putts before they can follow you...

As Mike says a par 3 can also be ok if both groups hit to the green and walk up or let the second group tee off before putting/chipping etc.

blue note

I'm talking about a fast group on a day when the course is full and not necessarily playing slowly for a course that it full. The whole course has to stop to let them through. If it's a slow day, I try my best to take my time. I don't want to be waiting at my ball for every shot and I don't want to get to a tee box while others are still on it.

With the obsession about not playing slowly, I think some people seem to think that your place on the golf course is not in front of those behind you, not behind those in front of you, but right up the holes of those in front of you!

This little rant is just coming from the slow play threads by the way, not any bad bank holiday experience. There's just another side to pace of play that seems to get no air time.

For Paws

Good points made for calling players through.

However, the practice of putting groups in front under pressure by deliberately playing early is absolutely not on.

It is always your responsibility to keep your place on the course, and if circumstances allow, to call following groups through. Acknowledge that some groups play faster and accommodate them if you can. But if you are in the group behind slower players, act responsibly and make it clear that you wish to play through without resorting to roaring at the group in front to 'get the fcuk on with it', or hitting tee shots while they are still in range. This kind of crap just fcuks the day up for all concerned.

SnowDrifts

blue note wrote: »

I'm talking about a fast group on a day when the course is full and not necessarily playing slowly for a course that it full. The whole course has to stop to let them through. If it's a slow day, I try my best to take my time. I don't want to be waiting at my ball for every shot and I don't want to get to a tee box while others are still on it.

Thus, contributing to the problem. You don't "try" to go at your own pace - as soon as a fairway or green is clear, you hit immediately. If your waiting on the next tee box, then so be it. You must keep up with the group in front.

stringy

If I'm keeping up with the group ahead, then I don't see any reason to let a group true. Most times I see no reason, as I generally am not a slow player and am sometimes self conscious about not being slow to my own detriment by sometimes rushing.

However I played a round last year with a couple of work colleagues I hadn't played with before. I've never felt so rushed! It was like a Sprint to get around. Didn't enjoy it one bit.

As for fellas not waiting on the tee until you've hit your second - this really p!sses me off. I'd be slightly longer off the tee than most guys, so the recent idea of "sure I won't reach him", does not IMO excuse hitting off the tee before I've played my shot. The last thing I want is balls landing 10 yards behind me in the middle of my back swing. One day I got very annoyed, and walked up to the ball that had landed beside me, and fired it back at the tee. Needless to say there were words after, and I was silly to do so, but it had happened a few times in the round and I'd had enough.

Anyway back on topic - be ready to take your putt/shot, have your bag ready, no needless dillydallying on putts or on the green, keep up with the lads ahead - there should be no problem.

blue note

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Thus, contributing to the problem. You don't "try" to go at your own pace - as soon as a fairway or green is clear, you hit immediately. If your waiting on the next tee box, then so be it. You must keep up with the group in front.

No. On a slow day, when you were late teeing off because the day is slow and where you've been waiting to hit every shot and on the second hole you can see a group just walking off the 10th tee and a group behind them just walking onto it, you're better off trying to take your time just for your own sanity. You'll still be waiting to hit most of your shots throughout the round, but not waiting for as long.

I'm not talking about not being ready to hit or wasting time, I'm just talking about not trying to rush off a green to meet the group ahead on the next tee box.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

No. On a slow day, when you were late teeing off because the day is slow and where you've been waiting to hit every shot and on the second hole you can see a group just walking off the 10th tee and a group behind them just walking onto it, you're better off trying to take your time just for your own sanity. You'll still be waiting to hit most of your shots throughout the round, but not waiting for as long.

I'm not talking about not being ready to hit or wasting time, I'm just talking about not trying to rush off a green to meet the group ahead on the next tee box.

The reason its a slow day is because everyone else behind the original slow group made the exact same decision that you are advocating right now.

If nobody allowed a slow group group to get away with it there wouldnt be a problem on the course at all.

jackal

Have had it happen a few times. Sometimes its just that the group behind are either very good and are hitting greens in regulation, not losing balls, putting quickly and moving very fast, or else they are just trying to fly around quicker than normal, or maybe they are playing match-play and not finishing out on the greens.

Last week we finished the 9th in 2 hours after having had a group waiting on us the whole front 9, they were constantly waiting behind us. However we we keeping up with the group in front and did not have much waiting to do, they were just walking off the green when we were sizing up our second shots etc. We were a 4 ball behind a 2 ball, with a 3 ball behind us.

What to do in this situation? We waited for them to catch up after the turn and on the first par 3 we hit our tee shots and invited them through. Immediately a 1 ball arrives just as we are finishing up after the other lads go through. We let him through on the next.

Delayed us a bit letting them through, but that was that, nobody behind us for the rest of the round and we were not looking over our shoulders all the time.

Sensible?

jackal

GreeBo wrote: »

The reason its a slow day is because everyone else behind the original slow group made the exact same decision that you are advocating right now.

If nobody allowed a slow group group to get away with it there wouldnt be a problem on the course at all.

What would you suggest the group behind should do to not let a slow group "get away with it"? Rant and roar at them? Hit into them? Polite word?

Everybody has a different idea of what's slow and what's fast. Should a group that is getting through 9 holes in an hour and a half be let through every group ahead of them who are playing the 9 holes in around 2 hours?

The only sensible system I have seen so far for this is the little gps trackers that each group is given in castleknock. If you are indeed "holding up the whole course" as the speed merchants love to tell you, the marshal will be out in the buggy to tell you to get a move on.

stooge

Interesting to find a thread about this amongst all the threads bemoaning slow play!!

While slow play is frustrating and can put people off their game, fast play or intimidating behaviour can do the exact same thing. PLaying shots before people are out of range "to get them to speed up" helps no-one.

However, I find a lot of issues could be prevented by proper use of time sheets and order. Sticking 3/4 fourballs out in front of 3/4 three balls will lead to frayed tempers.

GreeBo

jackal wrote: »

What would you suggest the group behind should do to not let a slow group "get away with it"? Rant and roar at them? Hit into them? Polite word?

You should play at the correct/normal pace of play, usually advertised on the card.
following blue note's advice of " I'm just talking about not trying to rush off a green to meet the group ahead on the next tee box."
just means that everyone slows down to the speed of the slowest group, and there is nothing the marshal can do about it.


Pace of play determines priority on the course (unless committee instructs otherwise) so in theory faster players should be let through slower players, even if the slower players are holding their place. Obviously this doesnt always work as a 2 ball out on a day of 4 balls is just going to have to suck it up and deal with waiting.

parseeker

ha surely every club has a group of speed merchants who judge the quality of their day on the course by the time it takes to play rather than their score ... usually persistently booking the first tee times every week .... jimmy 2 hours and johnny two and a half.

played with the lads a few weeks ago was told by both on the first tee how quickly they were done last week, nice, told them it was unlikely to happen this time as i was the slowest player in the club... not amused

jackal

GreeBo wrote: »

You should play at the correct/normal pace of play, usually advertised on the card.
following blue note's advice of " I'm just talking about not trying to rush off a green to meet the group ahead on the next tee box."
just means that everyone slows down to the speed of the slowest group, and there is nothing the marshal can do about it.


Pace of play determines priority on the course (unless committee instructs otherwise) so in theory faster players should be let through slower players, even if the slower players are holding their place. Obviously this doesnt always work as a 2 ball out on a day of 4 balls is just going to have to suck it up and deal with waiting.

I always thought the rule was to keep up with the group in front? If you lose a hole to them, invite the group behind to play through? Have never heard that the pace of play determines priority, where is that coming from?

Benicetomonty

Can honestly say fast play has never been a problem for me. Ive never felt pressurised by the group behind me unless it was deserved.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

I think a par 4/5 tee shot is the best place to let someone through, you only have to wait for one shot. I hate when someone calls me through around the green as you all have to hit approaches, chips, bunkers shots and then putts before they can follow you...

A true pet hate I have to say ...
letting people through on tee shots is much much better.

slave1

What I don't like is when we're out in a three or four ball and then a lone golfer cuts in right behind and all of a sudden we're split on letting him through or leaving him behind even though he would obviously be playing quicker.
I'm of the opinion he should stay behind because he's cutting in and should know the score when you do things like that, I see this a lot when coming towards the clubhouse on an evening round.

Tin_Cup

Myself and another lad where playing an Open last Wed. Super day out and lucky to have had a free run from when we teed off around midday. We weren't flying or that but when we got too 14 we where suddenly stuck behind a fourball with groups in front of them. Bit of head scratching and wondering where they came from (blaming shop for letting guys out on the 10th etc) until we realised that we had played the first 13 holes in about 2hrs 30mins. Time for bottle of coke and a mars and slow down a bit!

It's funny how you can get into a rhythm playing and if you get a free run how quickly you can get around. Something I struggle with would be trying to keep concentrating when rounds do grind to a halt.

One last thing that does bug the cr#p out of me is parking your trolley on the wrong side of the green, marking your card after putting pin than casually walking back to collect trolley to slowly wander around the full length of the green again! Amazing the amount of times I see this!

Felexicon

The thing I find strange is how much of a rush some people are in when out playing. I've only been hacking around for about 3 weeks now but when I'm out, the last thing I'm looking to do is finish my round as quickly as possible. Quite the opposite actually and even more so with this weather at the moment.

Deise Vu

People being people, everyone thinks they play at the ideal pace. In my opinion, annoyance at the pace of play is usually frustration with your own game and looking for someone or something else to blame. I don't think there is any solution to it at all. Even the simple admonishment to 'keep up with the group ahead' is actualy difficult to achieve. Suppose, with a free run, you are 2 minutes a hole faster than the groups ahead and the group behind you is one minute faster. You can't 'bank' any gains and spend the morning just ahead of the group behind, then you have to spend 5 minutes looking for a ball and a gap appears. Are you supposed to let the group behind play through even though there is a possibility they are actually slower than you (and they are slower in my example)? What if you let them through and they lose a ball, do you reverse positions again? Or are you meant to gallop after losing a ball? There would be some serious peer pressure on lads to abandon lost balls if we all played that way.

My only advice is relax and enjoy the game. There is nowhere better to be on a day like today than out on a golf course with friends.

stooge

Felexicon wrote: »

The thing I find strange is how much of a rush some people are in when out playing. I've only been hacking around for about 3 weeks now but when I'm out, the last thing I'm looking to do is finish my round as quickly as possible. Quite the opposite actually and even more so with this weather at the moment.

exactly! No use sprinting round the course and then heading back home to sit indoors!! :rolleyes:

Wichita Lineman

Some lads seem to think they will be charged more if they stay out a few minutes longer!

GreeBo

jackal wrote: »

I always thought the rule was to keep up with the group in front? If you lose a hole to them, invite the group behind to play through? Have never heard that the pace of play determines priority, where is that coming from?

From randa.
Keeping up with the group in front is fine, as long as the very first group is playing at an acceptable pace, if not then keeping up isnt enough and you should be let though. You will never be let through if you are not putting pressure on a slow (not necessarily slower) group.



I think its fine to spend 5 mins looking for a ball, if you are holding someone up then decide to call through or abandon the ball. Anytime I have lost ground on the group in front its a conscious effort to play faster to catch up within a couple of holes. If you dont do this and then lose a ball its painful for everyone.

PARlance

jackal wrote: »

I always thought the rule was to keep up with the group in front? If you lose a hole to them, invite the group behind to play through? Have never heard that the pace of play determines priority, where is that coming from?

That is a guild-line alright, but the pace of play should over rule it.

If the group ahead aren't keeping up with the pace of play, then by your logic it's ok to continue this, to play at their slow pace...as long as they're not getting ahead of you.
How do you know the group ahead of them aren't leaving a massive gap out on the course.

Having this type of group or having a mixed foursome ahead are my biggest bugbears when it comes being out on the course.

Despite adequate amount of pressure, the men in a mixed foursome will never, in my experience, let you through without a struggle.
Lads...it's alright, I can tell the women that you're hung like a donkey as I'm passing them if you want... just let us through.

:mad::mad::mad: And breath

GreeBo

stooge wrote: »

exactly! No use sprinting round the course and then heading back home to sit indoors!! :rolleyes:

Thats fine, as long as you are taking the appropriate amount of time. Dawdling to enjoy your day is most likely ruining the day for a lot of other people who might want to keep it to 4 hours...

SnowDrifts

Deise Vu wrote: »

In my opinion, annoyance at the pace of play is usually frustration with your own game and looking for someone or something else to blame.

Couldn't disagree more with the above. Regardless of how I am playing, I will get annoyed if I catch up with a slow group who are not keeping up with the group in front of them and will not let anyone through. How I am playing has no relevance as to my frustration at poor etiquette.

Felexicon

GreeBo wrote: »

From randa.
Keeping up with the group in front is fine, as long as the very first group is playing at an acceptable pace, if not then keeping up isnt enough and you should be let though. You will never be let through if you are not putting pressure on a slow (not necessarily slower) group.



I think its fine to spend 5 mins looking for a ball, if you are holding someone up then decide to call through or abandon the ball. Anytime I have lost ground on the group in front its a conscious effort to play faster to catch up within a couple of holes. If you dont do this and then lose a ball its painful for everyone.

Is it really ever acceptable to put pressure on people to hurry up/rush. It's up to them if they let you through or not and if you really are up their arse they should of course offer but saying you should put pressure on them to do so seems like a bit of a cúntish thing to do to be honest.

How would you apply the pressure by the way?

alxmorgan

Deise Vu wrote: »

People being people, everyone thinks they play at the ideal pace. In my opinion, annoyance at the pace of play is usually frustration with your own game and looking for someone or something else to blame. I don't think there is any solution to it at all. Even the simple admonishment to 'keep up with the group ahead' is actualy difficult to achieve. Suppose, with a free run, you are 2 minutes a hole faster than the groups ahead and the group behind you is one minute faster. You can't 'bank' any gains and spend the morning just ahead of the group behind, then you have to spend 5 minutes looking for a ball and a gap appears. Are you supposed to let the group behind play through even though there is a possibility they are actually slower than you (and they are slower in my example)? What if you let them through and they lose a ball, do you reverse positions again? Or are you meant to gallop after losing a ball? There would be some serious peer pressure on lads to abandon lost balls if we all played that way.

My only advice is relax and enjoy the game. There is nowhere better to be on a day like today than out on a golf course with friends.

Agreed but I have young kids to get home to so don't have all day. I don't rush but I don't expect others to stand around marveling at the sun and lovely greenery either.
4 hours should be plenty. 4:30 I can live with on occasion. Anything longer than that and its time to get the ranger out...or a gun

SnowDrifts

Felexicon wrote: »

Is it really ever acceptable to put pressure on people to hurry up/rush. It's up to them if they let you through or not and if you really are up their arse they should of course offer but saying you should put pressure on them to do so seems like a bit of a cúntish thing to do to be honest.

You see, there is the perspective conflict. You might consider it "c**tish" to be rushed but I would consider it "c**tish" to be holding play up and not letting groups through.

Putting pressure on a group is merely playing into greens immediately after the group in front has left and is safely clear and letting them see you waiting on the next tee box for them to play out.

Russman

Groups should be escorted off the course after 4 hours, that'd solve any issues pretty quick smart !!

Actually, all joking aside, 4 hours is plenty for almost any round of golf, any more than that and it falls into the "slow play" category, guys mightn't like to hear that, not good for the ego as every golfer thinks they're not slow, but IMO 4hrs plus - is slow play.

GreeBo

Felexicon wrote: »

Is it really ever acceptable to put pressure on people to hurry up/rush. It's up to them if they let you through or not and if you really are up their arse they should of course offer but saying you should put pressure on them to do so seems like a bit of a cúntish thing to do to be honest.

How would you apply the pressure by the way?

Yes of course it is.
If they are slower than they should be the only way you cant put pressure on them is to play to the same speed, which slows down the entire course.

I dont see how playing at the expected pace can be considered anything other than ideal...as for it being c*****h...I find that baffling tbh.

As above, you apply pressure being ready to hit as soon as they are clear.

Wichita Lineman

Are we seriously talking about 4 hours being slow for a fourball???

blue note

GreeBo wrote: »

The reason its a slow day is because everyone else behind the original slow group made the exact same decision that you are advocating right now.

If nobody allowed a slow group group to get away with it there wouldnt be a problem on the course at all.

Again, I'd have to disagree.

The first problem is that there is a slow group at the front of a long line of golfers, very possibly more than one group of slow golfers.

The second problem is the 2nd, 3rd and 4th groups in the line not putting pressure on the group in front to hurry up - possibly doing what I'm advocating when you can see that you're way back in a line on a slow day.

The problem is not a group on the second hole taking their time when they were late teeing off because the course was slow, had to wait on every shot so far and looking around on the second fairway can see a group waiting on the 10th teebox (par 3) while the group in front hasn't even reached the green yet, has to wait for their own next shot because the group in front is waiting for the green to clear to hit their 3rd shots onto the green and can see that the group on the 2nd green will have to wait themselves once they are off the green.

If I'm playing on a day that slow, I'll chat to my playing partner and once we can play our next we will and we'll end up in the same situation over our next shots.

However, this thread has been derailed to be one about slow play. What I was actually interested in was people's opinions on when it is not a slow day, everyone is moving at a good comfortable pace (comfortably keeping time with the recommended course times) and a group is doing their best to force you to call them through when they have no-where to go unless the whole course stops intermittently to let them finish their round a bit faster. I find these guys as well as the slow players who don't call you through annoying!

FixdePitchmark

Golf just takes too long.


It would be great if golf was 2.5 to 3 hours .


I can get around in 3 to 3.5 hours. That is all the time I have for golf most days. After that it is over 1/2 of the day gone. I think modern courses are too long for the average punter. If you look at ladies playing , it is amazing how fast they are by shortening the course and walking fast.

Wichita Lineman

You might be on to something with the ladies fast walking but I think some of the lads should just relax a little and not get too stressed about either slow or fast play. At the end of the day golf should be enjoyable.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

Again, I'd have to disagree.

The first problem is that there is a slow group at the front of a long line of golfers, very possibly more than one group of slow golfers.

The second problem is the 2nd, 3rd and 4th groups in the line not putting pressure on the group in front to hurry up - possibly doing what I'm advocating when you can see that you're way back in a line on a slow day.

The problem is not a group on the second hole taking their time when they were late teeing off because the course was slow, had to wait on every shot so far and looking around on the second fairway can see a group waiting on the 10th teebox (par 3) while the group in front hasn't even reached the green yet, has to wait for their own next shot because the group in front is waiting for the green to clear to hit their 3rd shots onto the green and can see that the group on the 2nd green will have to wait themselves once they are off the green.

If I'm playing on a day that slow, I'll chat to my playing partner and once we can play our next we will and we'll end up in the same situation over our next shots.

The bold bit is what I have a problem with. You should always be directly behind the group in front and keeping up with the recommended times. If you are not then you are playing too slowly. If everyone took your attitude then you get a slow day on the course. If everyone played according to the guidelines and if that means waiting over some shots then so be it, the slow people get the message and are obvious to the ranger. A course full of people sauntering around because "its a slow day" does nothing for anyone.

blue note wrote: »

However, this thread has been derailed to be one about slow play. What I was actually interested in was people's opinions on when it is not a slow day, everyone is moving at a good comfortable pace (comfortably keeping time with the recommended course times) and a group is doing their best to force you to call them through when they have no-where to go unless the whole course stops intermittently to let them finish their round a bit faster. I find these guys as well as the slow players who don't call you through annoying!

If Im playing and keeping pace with the recommended time but there is a faster group behind, if there is any sort of gap appearing in front I will let them through. If there is no gap I wont unless its bothering someone in my group, having the fast lads play thorough 4/5 groups just messes it up for too many people for too little gain imo.

PhlegmyMoses

I was in the group at Silloge with Felexicon. We teed off at 12:28 and were in the car on the way home by around 16:45. This is with 15 minutes of waiting for a ladies 2 ball to play through and then waiting for the group in front to tee off after they also let the ladies through.

The three ball caught up on us around the 5th hole due to this delay and they were playing into us the whole time. We were playing to the pace of the group in front of us and were normally teeing off on par 4s and 5s just as they'd hit their second shots.

That 3 ball were speed demons, obviously out to play a quick 18. There was a two ball behind them that they never let through either. Had we let the 3 ball through, we'd have had to let the two ball through as well, all because one group wanted to play a super fast round, poorly might I add. They eventually bailed off at the 14th hole so they must have had some sort of time-constraint that was causing them to motor through the holes.

As far as I saw it, overly fast play is as bad as slow play. An overly fast 3 ball can cause as many delays as a slow three ball as multiple groups over 18 holes will have to stop to wait for them at tee boxes in order to let them play through. They were quite dangerous as well, as Felexicon alluded to, and no doubt wold have been all-apologies had they smacked somebody in the head with a ball.

kiers47

This thread should be titled us Irish are never happy.. Fast play?? That's gas stuff. In fairness landing balls down on yer heads is a bit much.

I played with a guy the other day who deemed it to be to hot!! Haha

jackal

GreeBo wrote: »

The bold bit is what I have a problem with. You should always be directly behind the group in front and keeping up with the recommended times. If you are not then you are playing too slowly. If everyone took your attitude then you get a slow day on the course. If everyone played according to the guidelines and if that means waiting over some shots then so be it, the slow people get the message and are obvious to the ranger. A course full of people sauntering around because "its a slow day" does nothing for anyone.


If Im playing and keeping pace with the recommended time but there is a faster group behind, if there is any sort of gap appearing in front I will let them through. If there is no gap I wont unless its bothering someone in my group, having the fast lads play thorough 4/5 groups just messes it up for too many people for too little gain imo.

I think its all just a bit idealistic. Firstly, even if everybody was singing off the same hymn sheet, which from this thread its obvious is not true, there would always be the group which either will not ask to play through, or will not let people play through. The best you can hope for, in a rangerless course is that people keep up with the group ahead.

The people that think only sub 4h rounds are acceptable for 4 balls, I would love to know what courses you play on.

There seems to be schism between the "I only have 4 hours to play" and the "enjoy the round" philosophies. The people that want to play fast seem to think that the crowds should part before them like the red sea, and dont care that they are annoying the group in front by putting pressure on them when they are clearly keeping up with the group behind.

Greebo's definition of putting pressure on is probably mild compared to what I have encountered. I have seen people literally filled with rage, screaming at other groups.

A lot of it is down to courses:
1. Not having rangers.
2. Not having "You should be here X time after teeing off" marks.
3. Packing groups too tightly.
4. Packing 2-4 balls randomly.
5. Letting people through at the wrong times.

Russman

jackal wrote: »

There seems to be schism between the "I only have 4 hours to play" and the "enjoy the round" philosophies. The people that want to play fast seem to think that the crowds should part before them like the red sea, and dont care that they are annoying the group in front by putting pressure on them when they are clearly keeping up with the group behind.

I don't think its necessarily as simple as that though.
Whether it labelled fast or slow is a matter of opinion. If everyone was ready to play when its their turn, slow play wouldn't be an issue anywhere IMO. Too many people are focussed on their "routine" and not starting it until its their turn which is crazy, if you have a routine, you can most of it done before its your turn to hit. The grumpy oul fellas will say its from watching too much TV, possibly, who knows.

"Only having 4 hours to play" doesn't mean Olympic sprinting around the course, I played early on Sunday, 4th group out (granted in a 3 ball), none of us were playing especially well, and we were literally ambling around the course or at least felt we were, yet when we came off the 18th we were around in 2hrs 50mins. And it wasn't like we were not searching for balls etc, I had to chip out sideways 6 times from trees !:D
Even super fast guys need to realise you can't just be cutting through a field of players like a hot knife through butter, it'll only slow everything up if 5 or 6 groups step aside to let one fast threeball through, common sense (not that common sadly) has to come into it too.

By the same token, "enjoying the round" doesn't mean mindlessly strolling, stopping, chatting, leaving your bag the wrong side of the green, taking out your laser when its your turn to hit yet you're 3rd player, etc etc.

The balance should be somewhere between the two extremes. Plus you've got to use your head as well, if you play early in the mornings you know that its generally going to be a quick round, if you play in the afternoon you're foolish to expect under 4 hours.

Players do, IMO, have some duty to others not to hold up the pace of play. If you hold your position on the course just behind the group in front of you there's no issue. If the group behind you can see you haven't lost a hole or two they have no right to be hassling or feeling aggrieved, the issues arise when a group can see there's two or three clear holes in front of the group immediately ahead of them. And no matter what the reason, its never acceptable to hit balls down on top of lads or just behind them, that's simply bad form and dangerous.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone anywhere going on about fast play being a problem, if that was the case, golf would be in a good place.

jackal

Russman wrote: »

I don't think its necessarily as simple as that though.
Whether it labelled fast or slow is a matter of opinion. If everyone was ready to play when its their turn, slow play wouldn't be an issue anywhere IMO. Too many people are focussed on their "routine" and not starting it until its their turn which is crazy, if you have a routine, you can most of it done before its your turn to hit. The grumpy oul fellas will say its from watching too much TV, possibly, who knows.

"Only having 4 hours to play" doesn't mean Olympic sprinting around the course, I played early on Sunday, 4th group out (granted in a 3 ball), none of us were playing especially well, and we were literally ambling around the course or at least felt we were, yet when we came off the 18th we were around in 2hrs 50mins. And it wasn't like we were not searching for balls etc, I had to chip out sideways 6 times from trees !:D
Even super fast guys need to realise you can't just be cutting through a field of players like a hot knife through butter, it'll only slow everything up if 5 or 6 groups step aside to let one fast threeball through, common sense (not that common sadly) has to come into it too.

By the same token, "enjoying the round" doesn't mean mindlessly strolling, stopping, chatting, leaving your bag the wrong side of the green, taking out your laser when its your turn to hit yet you're 3rd player, etc etc.

The balance should be somewhere between the two extremes. Plus you've got to use your head as well, if you play early in the mornings you know that its generally going to be a quick round, if you play in the afternoon you're foolish to expect under 4 hours.

Players do, IMO, have some duty to others not to hold up the pace of play. If you hold your position on the course just behind the group in front of you there's no issue. If the group behind you can see you haven't lost a hole or two they have no right to be hassling or feeling aggrieved, the issues arise when a group can see there's two or three clear holes in front of the group immediately ahead of them. And no matter what the reason, its never acceptable to hit balls down on top of lads or just behind them, that's simply bad form and dangerous.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone anywhere going on about fast play being a problem, if that was the case, golf would be in a good place.

No argument with any of what you have said.

Aggression, whether outright or passive has no place on the course. Studiously ignoring a group behind when you have a gap in front is as bad as playing up someones @rse when they are clearly trapped behind others.

When I play golf I am not there to do the job of the course ranger. I am there to play a nice round and if it takes in or around 4.5 hours that's fine.

I would expect a quicker round first thing in the morning but with good weather and a packed course with fair weather players you may relax, keep up and enjoy.

For Paws

It's been said before on many threads - the game of golf is in difficulty.
Part of this difficulty lies in the perception that golf 'takes too much time'.

The game, ie: the R & A and USPGA recognise this and have made their views known. GreeBo quoted the specific text earlier.

If players are to enjoy the game, and allow others to enjoy the game, we must recognise that our personal view of what constitutes a good days golf is not necessarily shared by all who play. Yes, by all means enjoy your day out, but try to do so in a fashion that doesn't spoil anyone else's.

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you, as Tiger Woods would have said if he'd thought of it first.

blue note

For Paws wrote: »

It's been said before on many threads - the game of golf is in difficulty.
Part of this difficulty lies in the perception that golf 'takes too much time'.

The game, ie: the R & A and USPGA recognise this and have made their views known. GreeBo quoted the specific text earlier.

If players are to enjoy the game, and allow others to enjoy the game, we must recognise that our personal view of what constitutes a good days golf is not necessarily shared by all who play. Yes, by all means enjoy your day out, but try to do so in a fashion that doesn't spoil anyone else's.

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you, as Tiger Woods would have said if he'd thought of it first.

There's loads of threads about the problems of slow play. Everyone agrees that it's a problem.

I was wondering if people had any opinions on whether they found fast play annoying on occasion.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

There's loads of threads about the problems of slow play. Everyone agrees that it's a problem.

I was wondering if people had any opinions on whether they found fast play annoying on occasion.

Ive played early morning a few times and didnt enjoy it, the lads I was with were almost running between shots, no talking, I felt like I had to rush all my shots as I was holding them up. They spent no time looking at putts or chips, no practice swings, etc. A thoroughly unenjoyable couple of rounds for me to be honest.
Im not slow, I dont take practice swings for anything apart from the odd chip or pitch. Im always ready to play and know where to leave my stuff to be away from the green quickly yet I was rushed by these guys despite the fact that they each hit the ball at least 10 more times that I did...I dont get people who play like that. If you are in that much of a rush, go play 9 holes somewhere imo, its not doing anyones golf any good.

DeanAustin

GreeBo wrote: »

Ive played early morning a few times and didnt enjoy it, the lads I was with were almost running between shots, no talking, I felt like I had to rush all my shots as I was holding them up. They spent no time looking at putts or chips, no practice swings, etc. A thoroughly unenjoyable couple of rounds for me to be honest.
Im not slow, I dont take practice swings for anything apart from the odd chip or pitch. Im always ready to play and know where to leave my stuff to be away from the green quickly yet I was rushed by these guys despite the fact that they each hit the ball at least 10 more times that I did...I dont get people who play like that. If you are in that much of a rush, go play 9 holes somewhere imo, its not doing anyones golf any good.

I play early morning most weeks. Usually the price to pay for having a missus and young kid.

I find it frustrating to be honest. Much of the time, my group ends up losing half a hole or a hole. I'm sure the lads in the group are thinking it's me - I'm probably not the quickest over putts. That said, I'll walk very quickly between shots, be ready to play and ensure my stuff is on the right side of the green and so on.

The last couple of times I've played, I've had one bloke who liked to stop and talk between shots a lot and a young lad who looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders every time he missed a putt. Twas like that Harry Enfield teenage character (Kevin was it?). Thing is, I'd put the delays down to them and they'd probably put them down to me over a putt. Either way, it isn't enjoyable. I usually end up not going through the pre-shot routine for some 1-2 foot putts and usually end up missing them.

BoardsMember

A lot of posts on here on the why and the how to solve. From my perspective, there are the same lads every week who are slow. Every week they lose ground on the people in front. More often than not it is the same 4 or 5 older gentlemen. (Its not an ageist thing, the fastest players are also older gentlemen). They play with different people every week. Those people they play with try to encourage them to play faster. It never happens. We have signs all over the course telling you about slow play. The fact of the matter is it is very difficult to speed up people who cannot play any quicker. And these people are not inclined to let 3 or 4 groups through every time they play a round.

dwayned

Felexicon wrote: »

The thing I find strange is how much of a rush some people are in when out playing. I've only been hacking around for about 3 weeks now but when I'm out, the last thing I'm looking to do is finish my round as quickly as possible. Quite the opposite actually and even more so with this weather at the moment.

yeah that's true - I played 9 holes after work yesterday evening and due to ladies comp the tee is not open until 7:30pm so it was just after 8 when I started.

There were about 3-4 3 balls in front the whole time but better to enjoy the evening. Finished at about 10pm and still bright :pac:

Loving this weather, more golf this evening me thinks

Deise Vu

Just to be clear I am one of those players who will rush between shots, have a club out of the bag before I arrive at my ball, if a line of a putt is obvious, great, if not hit it straight and I will fill in the score card about every third hole.

The point I am trying to make about relaxing and enjoying your round (which I am guilty of not doing myself most days) is there is little or nothing you can do when the course is full. It is simple mathematics, a group playing through gains a free Golf course for at least a couple of holes. Lucky them, but every single other group on the course behind them will have 10 minutes added to their round because the slow group is still ahead of them on the course and they are now standing still for 10 minutes. I don't care what way you engineer the changeover, the group behind has to play golf from 250 yards or so behind the slow group to 250 yards ahead of them (or play a par 3).

That is a mathematical certainty and the only way to avoid it is to remove the slow group from the course entirely. I presume no-one is advocating that, so the only solution is to chill out (and I wish I could take my own advice on that).