Did I put the wrong food in my bird feeder?

seven_eleven

Hi guys. I bought a bird metal mesh feeder today from woodies, and hung it from a tree in my back yard. It has peanuts in it.

The thing is, all the bird nests around my house are house martins. I have a total of about 5 nests and they're everywhere. Am I correct in thinking they only eat insects?

I also a couple of blackbirds that potter around, and similarly a couple of sparrows and wagtails. But mainly house martins zooming about. Do you think could any of the other birds benefit from this?

Also, do you think the cage would be able to support the birds adequately? http://www.woodiesdiy.com/images/productImages//Zoom/BFSET1_peanut_feeder_1075365.jpg exact one I got.

Birdnuts

I wouldn't feed peanuts at this time of year as parents could bring them back to the nest and choke the small nestlings. In any case there is plenty of natural food at this time of year so bird don't really need to be fed until well into the Autumn most years

kylith

Martins take insects on the wing, so are unlikely to visit feeders. As Birdnuts said, peanuts aren't good for chicks. I don't know much about feeding birds myself, but maybe some dried worms (I'm sure I've seen tubs of them in Woodies for birds) would be a better option at this time of year.

OpenYourEyes

As has been said, Peanuts are good for feeding birds but better left til Autumn/Winter - dried mealworms or Mixed/Sunflower seeds would be better at this time of year, and could both be put in the feeder you've already bought!

magicbastarder

Birdnuts wrote: »

In any case there is plenty of natural food at this time of year so bird don't really need to be fed until well into the Autumn most years

our fat ball feeders are being refilled almost on a daily basis due to a lot of sparrows appearing in the garden about ten days ago. we'd seen very few sparrows before then.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

A lot covered here. Firstly, other birds will come over time to the nut feeder. My house sparrows enjoy peanuts daily. Peanuts in a mesh feeder are absolutely fine all year round. Studies have shown that birds such as blue tits etc do not bring nuts to nestlings. Nestlings do not choke on peanuts as the adults feed them the live food they need. Indeed supplementary feeding of high protein like nuts aids the adults at this very demanding time on their resources. In addition natural food is particularly scarce at the moment. Meal worms are of course a wonderful food at this, or any, time of year but the regular seeds and nuts will also play an important part in helping birds at this busy and demanding time of year.

House martins feed on insects so the nut feeder won't benefit them.

There is absolutely no benefit, and indeed some harm, in feeding fat to birds at this time of year. Fats should be reserved for the coldest most severe winter period. Protein is required now not fats.

magicbastarder

interesting; strange thing is the birds are ignoring the seed and peanut feeders, but going for the fat ball ones. the only reason i refill the peanut feeders is that i'm conscious of leaving them out too long, because of the mould that grows on them.

Ulmus

I don't see any harm in feeding birds suet or fat balls in summer as long as it doesn't melt or go rancid. Starlings, robins, blackbirds and house sparrows will go through suet cake or fat balls quickly.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

magicbastarder wrote: »

interesting; strange thing is the birds are ignoring the seed and peanut feeders, but going for the fat ball ones. the only reason i refill the peanut feeders is that i'm conscious of leaving them out too long, because of the mould that grows on them.

It's a bit like kids, or maybe you and I, when we go for the sweet and fatty foods before the vegetables. Not good for us but we like it.

Clap your handsay yeah

Wouldn't there be a risk of suet/fat dehydrating the nestlings if it was fed to them instead of insects?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Clap your handsay yeah wrote: »

Wouldn't there be a risk of suet/fat dehydrating the nestlings if it was fed to them instead of insects?

Yes there would - and also the adults if adequate water is not provided. However, birds are not stupid and in most cases would not feed this fat to nestlings. That said, fat has no place at our feeding stations right now.

On the mention of water - it is vital now that we all provide some for birds even if we are not feeding them.

Ulmus

Our suet products are specially formulated to make them suitable for year-round feeding. However, if positioned in direct sunlight they may soften or melt in very hot weather. If this is happening, try placing them in a shaded spot instead, or waiting until the weather is cooler.
This is the RSPB on feeding fat balls. I'm not an avian dietician but I'd take the RSPB's advice.

seven_eleven

Thanks for the advice. I'll see how things go over the next while, although I was kind of hoping to cater more for the house martins more than anything. They've been building nests in the same place for years :P

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Ulmus wrote: »

Our suet products are specially formulated to make them suitable for year-round feeding. However, if positioned in direct sunlight they may soften or melt in very hot weather. If this is happening, try placing them in a shaded spot instead, or waiting until the weather is cooler.
This is the RSPB on feeding fat balls. I'm not an avian dietician but I'd take the RSPB's advice.

Go with whatever advice you like but it is a subject I studied for many years and have kept up to date with in my dotage.;)

Fat products will be eaten all year round if supplied and formulations will enable them to withstand warm weather without going rancid. It does not take from the fact that a protein rich diet is much more desirable for birds at this time of year.

From the RSPB themselves " Fat balls and other fat-based food bars are excellent winter food."

You will also find that in an attempt to balance revenues with proper nutrition, those sold for summer feed contain considerably less fat than the winter product. Year round varieties try to strike a balance between the two requirements. If you really want to feed birds with the optimum dietary requirements in Summer then use sunflower hearts. These contain protein and more than sufficient natural fats for their diet.

magicbastarder

well, whatever about me having kept the wrong food *in* my bird feeders, i seem to have attracted the right food. what i assume was a sparrowhawk just took a sparrow, with me painting a door 15 foot away. first time i'd seen a BOP since moving to glasnevin.

seven_eleven

Wow guys, so the birds really seem to be enjoying my peanuts.

I only refilled the feeder 2 days ago, and its already half gone! 99% of the birds I've seen at it are sparrows. Are they getting too lazy and fat?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

seven_eleven wrote: »

Wow guys, so the birds really seem to be enjoying my peanuts.

I only refilled the feeder 2 days ago, and its already half gone! 99% of the birds I've seen at it are sparrows. Are they getting too lazy and fat?

Not at all. They are just availing of a food source. They certainly won't get fat at this time of year.

seven_eleven

Ahmad Incalculable Gym wrote: »

Not at all. They are just availing of a food source. They certainly won't get fat at this time of year.

Thats good to know. Went out and there was 5 birds around it today. All sparrows bar one, it had a slightly yellow colour to it but I couldnt make it out. It looked pretty much like a sparrow but with a yellow belly.

Could have been a wagtail but looked a bit different. At this rate I'm going to be refilling it every 4-5 days.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Small and slightly yellow at a peanut feeder could be a juvenile Blue Tit.

joseph brand

Ahmad Incalculable Gym wrote: »

Small and slightly yellow at a peanut feeder could be a juvenile Blue Tit.

Hi Ahmad Incalculable Gym,

You seem to know a bit about our birds, so I'm wondering if you could enlighten me. The Blue Tits come into my garden, practically ignore any food I put out (mixed seeds, nyjer seed, bread and other household scraps). Instead they seem to land on branches and rub their beak off the branch?? From tree to tree, just like they're scraping or cleaning their beak? I don't have any peanuts out, so my guess is they prefer nuts.

Back to the OP: My feeders which, back in April, had 14 - 18 Goldfinches swarming around, are completely devoid of those finches now. They're almost full of nyjer seeds this past 3 weeks.

It would seem the birds are enjoying their natural food source at the moment.

Also, just wanted to say that mealworms aren't an attractive product for those of us on a budget, as they are quite expensive. I could go for the cheaper option and harvest fresh juicy worms from the bottom of my composter and from under any plant pots that are placed on concrete.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Blue tits wiping beaks on branches usually happens when they are feeding on grubs and flies. Seems there's plenty to eat in your trees. Which also explains why they don't need the food you are supplying.

I wouldn't bother with nyger seed for goldfinches at this time of year, as they are not flocking.

I agree about mealworms. I never use them, as they are too expensive for the hoards of birds in my garden.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

From the BTO just today -

1) Harrison et al. (2010)
- Species – Blue Tit and Great Tit.
- Habitat – woodland.
- Food provided – commercial peanut cake (50% beef suet, 50% ground-up peanuts); non-supplemented.
- Timing – food provided during spring and early summer (Mar–July).
- Effect on productivity – fed birds experienced significantly lower productivity than non-supplemented birds.

2) Plummer et al. (2013)
- Species – Blue Tit.
- Habitat – woodland.
- Food provided – vegetable fat; vegetable fat plus vitamin E; non-supplemented.
- Timing – food provided during winter (Nov–Mar).
- Effect on productivity – fed birds (both of the vegetable fat treatments) experienced significantly lower productivity than non-supplemented birds.

3) Smith and Smith (2013)
- Species – Great Spotted Woodpecker.
- Habitat – woodland.
- Food provided – suet; non-supplemented.
- Timing – food provided in late winter and early spring (Feb–Apr).
- Effect on productivity – fed birds experienced significantly higher productivity than non-supplemented birds.

Good for some species but not others?
The provision of fat-based bird foods had contrasting effects in these studies. Worryingly, in the two tit studies the supplements resulted in lower productivity, while in the Great Spotted Woodpecker study productivity was increased. It is possible, therefore, that the effects of fat-based food supplements on breeding productivity could be species dependent. The nutritional requirements of different species will vary as they enter the breeding season and it is conceivable that individual species might find different nutrients limiting under normal (i.e. non-supplemented) conditions.

Food for thought?

Kess73

Ahmad Incalculable Gym wrote: »

Blue tits wiping beaks on branches usually happens when they are feeding on grubs and flies. Seems there's plenty to eat in your trees. Which also explains why they don't need the food you are supplying.

I wouldn't bother with nyger seed for goldfinches at this time of year, as they are not flocking.

I agree about mealworms. I never use them, as they are too expensive for the hoards of birds in my garden.

Depends on how close one lives to their breeding site.

I saw my goldie numbers plummet as normal once the breeding season kicked in, but now the numbers are creeping back up and would have 12 to 16 goldies (inc some fledglings) at the feeders at any given time. Still a far cry from the numbers I had earlier in the year, but if an area has a good population to start with, there should be a trickle starting to return to feeders that were heavily used in the months beforehand.

Bsal

Some of my Goldfinches are back too, around 15 adults with 5 fledglings. I also have a couple of Redpolls and Siskins still hanging around too.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Bsal wrote: »

Some of my Goldfinches are back too, around 15 adults with 5 fledglings. I also have a couple of Redpolls and Siskins still hanging around too.

That's a worrying ratio of 5 juv to 15 adult.

Half-cocked

Just wondering, I have a pint of white maggots for course angling. Are they OK to leave out for birds? I have 5 two day old robin chicks being fed in their nest at the moment, would maggots be suitable if the parents started taking them?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Maggots are fed on offal/meat and can pass on Salmonella if eaten by birds, which can kill the birds. Mealworms are fed on vegetable matter, which is why they are safe.

Half-cocked

Ahmad Incalculable Gym wrote: »

Maggots are fed on offal/meat and can pass on Salmonella if eaten by birds, which can kill the birds. Mealworms are fed on vegetable matter, which is why they are safe.

Now you've made me worried about handling them when fishing!:D But a very good point about their unsuitability for birds.

magicbastarder

what's the best feeder to use for nyjer seed? we have some in a standard seed hanging feeder, and no interest for the last two weeks.
wrong feeder, or should we simply have more patience?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the best feeder to use for nyjer seed? we have some in a standard seed hanging feeder, and no interest for the last two weeks.
wrong feeder, or should we simply have more patience?

My immediate reaction is to say perseverance is the key. However, I have never had much success with nyjer seed, no matter what kind of feeder it was in. I know some people swear by it but, after many years of putting it out, I cut it out altogether. I found I got as many goldfinches etc to the usual seed mix and the peanut feeders as I ever got to the nyjer.

wicorthered

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the best feeder to use for nyjer seed? we have some in a standard seed hanging feeder, and no interest for the last two weeks.
wrong feeder, or should we simply have more patience?

Ahmad Incalculable Gym wrote: »

My immediate reaction is to say perseverance is the key. However, I have never had much success with nyjer seed, no matter what kind of feeder it was in. I know some people swear by it but, after many years of putting it out, I cut it out altogether. I found I got as many goldfinches etc to the usual seed mix and the peanut feeders as I ever got to the nyjer.

My regular seed and peanut feeders were ignored by goldfinches for months, then I bought a nyger seed feeder and after about a week I was over run with goldfinches!

Capercaille

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the best feeder to use for nyjer seed? we have some in a standard seed hanging feeder, and no interest for the last two weeks.
wrong feeder, or should we simply have more patience?

https://www.google.ie/search?q=nyjer+feeder&client=firefox-a&hs=KNP&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=yxB-EWIGDAnaDM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRflvL4Po9bg6rWGWlgkB-FNSGdCV1UjMNXYhYtspNyyF8d6UCO%253B1596%253B1994%253BJOJyCeKUKj-fQM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.wbcboulder.com%25252Fnyjer_feeders_sub.html&sa=X&ei=6wWyUpPWJcGAhAeHsIDgCQ&ved=0CEcQ9QEwAQ&biw=1600&bih=771#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=yxB-EWIGDAnaDM%3A%3BJOJyCeKUKj-fQM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wbcboulder.com%252Fimages%252F80071-1_aspect_mesh_nyjer_feeder.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wbcboulder.com%252Fnyjer_feeders_sub.html%3B1596%3B1994
I have 3 of these. I have around 30 Goldfinch atm. In 2011 during the big snow I had far more Goldfinch and with around 50 redpoll. Hardly any redpoll this year.

magicbastarder

still no joy with the nyjer feeder. getting sparrows, tits, robins, blackbirds, the occasional dunnock, and pigeons and collared doves into the garden at the moment.

Alun

Strange, I get virtually nothing BUT finches ... goldfinch, greenfinch, chaffinch, siskin etc. apart from a few tits and the occasional sparrow.

Ulmus

I find that kibbled sunflower seed is more of a draw for goldfinches and chaffinches than nyjer seed. I think the birds are getting spoilt and they won't bother with peanuts anymore.

j@utis

I've removed peanut only feeder and replaced it with the feeder filled with regular wild bird seed with extra sunflower mixed into it. So many more birds visit my back garden now. All kinds of finches, sparrows, especially green finches - loads of them! They're absolutely crazy about sunflower. And sunflower seed is half of the price of peanuts, so I'm happy too

Alun

I'm the same, my peanut feeder gets virtually ignored, even by the tits. I have a nyjer seed feeder that gets attacked by the finches, but also two larger ones with a seed mix with whole black sunflower seeds. kibbled sunflower and others. I tried a no-mess mix with lots of kibbled sunflower seeds, but found it got very 'claggy' in our damp, wet climate and would clog the feeders so abandoned it.

magicbastarder

i get the occasional tit at the peanuts, but i can't see much difference in the level of the peanuts over the last week. unless the squirrel has been, but i moved the peanut feeder to a position he can't get to.

magicbastarder

finally - goldfinches this morning at the nyjer feeder. we'd had some collared doves which had learned how to get at it...

Squidvicious

It's very interesting the differences between birds at different locations! My peanut feeders were quite unpopular for the last couple of years. I then moved them to a spot at the edge of the garden adjoining a wood and since then, they have been swamped by blue tits, great tits, coal tits and even long-tailed tits. The nyjer feeders are always popular with the goldfinches. My main problem at the moment is that since I moved a lot of the food away from the house any food that I scatter or put on tables gets gobbled up quickly by pigeons, rooks, jackdaws, crows and magpies. I know that they need feeding too but they leave very little for the other smaller birds.

I'm amazed that the doves can get at the nyjer feeder - have never seen mine do that.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Squidvicious wrote: »

It's very interesting the differences between birds at different locations! My peanut feeders were quite unpopular for the last couple of years. I then moved them to a spot at the edge of the garden adjoining a wood and since then, they have been swamped by blue tits, great tits, coal tits and even long-tailed tits. The nyjer feeders are always popular with the goldfinches. My main problem at the moment is that since I moved a lot of the food away from the house any food that I scatter or put on tables gets gobbled up quickly by pigeons, rooks, jackdaws, crows and magpies. I know that they need feeding too but they leave very little for the other smaller birds.

I'm amazed that the doves can get at the nyjer feeder - have never seen mine do that.

I got around this by separating the hanging feeders from the table or ground feed. I keep the scattered seeds nearer the house and that area is popular with the chaffinch, robin, house sparrow, dunnock, etc while the tits, goldfinch, siskin etc frequent the hanging feeders. The collared doves visit the found food but the large numbers of jackdaws and rooks are no longer a problem.

Squidvicious

Ahmad Incalculable Gym wrote: »

I got around this by separating the hanging feeders from the table or ground feed. I keep the scattered seeds nearer the house and that area is popular with the chaffinch, robin, house sparrow, dunnock, etc while the tits, goldfinch, siskin etc frequent the hanging feeders. The collared doves visit the found food but the large numbers of jackdaws and rooks are no longer a problem.

Thanks for that. Obvious now you say it to me but I hadn't thought of it! When I had ground feed near the house, it didn't eliminate the bigger birds completely(Wood Pigeons seem to be very willing to come near the house), but I had nothing like the current flocks of corvids. Your suggestion will certainly help, I think.
You've been very helpful to my last few posts, so I have one more question for you! Grey squirrels reached my location about 6 or 7 years ago. Some of my feeders are protected, but they will hoover up food on the ground or on tables. Any suggestions for what I assume is a common enough problem?

magicbastarder

Squidvicious wrote: »

I'm amazed that the doves can get at the nyjer feeder - have never seen mine do that.

the nyjer feeder we have is like a normal plastic tube seed feeder (except tiny slots cut in it to allow the seed out), but with a plastic plate attached to the bottom to catch fallen seed. the collared doves learned to sit on the plate to get seed.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

To deter Squirrels -
Put chilli powder in with the seed mix. Birds are not bothered by it but squirrels can't abide the hot taste. Youy can try all kinds of protective cages around the feeding zones but it's not worth it. Give the chilli power a try! I don't use it myself but I'm told it does the trick.

Squidvicious

magicbastarder wrote: »

the nyjer feeder we have is like a normal plastic tube seed feeder (except tiny slots cut in it to allow the seed out), but with a plastic plate attached to the bottom to catch fallen seed. the collared doves learned to sit on the plate to get seed.

Sounds like it's similar to mine, but my doves have never gone near it. Maybe mine will cotton on someday!

Squidvicious

Ahmad Incalculable Gym wrote: »

To deter Squirrels -
Put chilli powder in with the seed mix. Birds are not bothered by it but squirrels can't abide the hot taste. Youy can try all kinds of protective cages around the feeding zones but it's not worth it. Give the chilli power a try! I don't use it myself but I'm told it does the trick.

Thanks - I'll give it a go and report the results!

As regards protective cages, apart from the hassle, they need to be pretty strong to defeat the greys. They're very resourceful creatures and I know from experience that many of the so-called squirrel proof feeders aren't fit for purpose so it's probably similar with any cage.

Woodville56

Year round feeding or not ? Most years I continue feeding my garden birds throughout the year, but at a reduced level through the summer months - feeding just peanuts and birdseed mix, supplemented over the winter months with birdcake/ suet & fat balls, nyger seed etc. Currently getting a good array of birds at the feeders - Lesser Redpoll, Siskin, Goldfinch, Greenfinch, the tits, House Sparrows etc etc . Would miss the daily enjoyment of watching these birds at the feeders but wouldn't want to have them become over dependant on feeding, especially when food is plentiful through foraging. For years we didn't have house sparrows in the garden but they appeared shortly after we put the feeders up ! Wouldn't want them to disappear again ! Any views !

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

You are doing exactly what I do so, if I may be so arrogant, you're doing it right!

Studies show year round feeding to be of more benefit than winter feeding only. Adults need supplementary feeding during breeding seasons as our nvironment does not have the rich pickings for then any more.
Keep doing what you're doing.

magicbastarder

if i put any general seed mix out at the moment, it disappears within hours. from what i've seen, sparrows have been feeding it to fledglings perched in the elder tree in our neighbour's garden.

magicbastarder

our main problem with feeding the birds at the moment is finding the fat ball feeder in the morning after the foxes have been in to nick it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

There really is no need to be feeding fats to birds except in the extreme cold of winter.