Can Ireland have a second Head of State (again)?

Cody Pomeray

Since Ireland once had a King, and this King was facilitated by Article 29.4.2° of Bunreacht na h-Eireann, it seems to me that there is nothing in any subsequent Constitutional amendment which would prohibit the creation of a second head of State.

Why on Earth would we do such a thing.

Well we probably wouldn't re-introduce a King (although, it seems there is nothing to stop us), but I am actually thinking of the possible creation of an EU-wide officeholder who would be responsible for seeing to Ireland's international relations on the advice of the Government and signing our international Treaties, and receiving our diplomats (a power not Constitutionally belonging to the President). This individual would be, essentially, the European Head of State.

Apart from the political likelihood in the current political climate, is there any Constitutional reason why this might not arise?

For the record, the Article I am thinking of reads:
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/297.pdf

For the purpose of the exercise of any executive function of the State in or in connection with its external relations, the Government may to such extent and subject to such conditions, if any, as may be determined by law, avail of or adopt any organ, instrument, or method of procedure used or adopted for the like purpose by the members of any group or league of nations with which the State is or becomes associated for the purpose of international co-operation in matters of common concern.

ResearchWill

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Since Ireland once had a King, and this King was facilitated by Article 29.4.2° of Bunreacht na h-Eireann, it seems to me that there is nothing in any subsequent Constitutional amendment which would prohibit the creation of a second head of State.

Why on Earth would we do such a thing.

Well we probably wouldn't re-introduce a King (although, it seems there is nothing to stop us), but I am actually thinking of the possible creation of an EU-wide officeholder who would be responsible for seeing to Ireland's international relations on the advice of the Government and signing our international Treaties, and receiving our diplomats (a power not Constitutionally belonging to the President). This individual would be, essentially, the European Head of State.

Apart from the political likelihood in the current political climate, is there any Constitutional reason why this might not arise?

For the record, the Article I am thinking of reads:
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/297.pdf

The following article of the Constitution would cause problems,

Article 12
1. There shall be a President of Ireland (Uachtarán na hÉireann), hereinafter called the President, who shall take precedence over all other persons in the State and who shall exercise and perform the powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution and by law.

Also the following "2. 1° Titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State"

Cody Pomeray

ResearchWill wrote: »

The following article of the Constitution would cause problems,

Article 12
1. There shall be a President of Ireland (Uachtarán na hÉireann), hereinafter called the President, who shall take precedence over all other persons in the State and who shall exercise and perform the powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution and by law.

I suppose we would be back to the old "what if the King had visited Ireland during the War" conundrum.

But that is largely a question of ceremony. The substantive issue is that the new guy would be officially designated Head of State - this is not a designation our Constitution affords, or could ever have afforded - to the President.

As for the title of nobility, that wouldn't necessarily have been conferred by the state in my scenario, but by Europe; that point is just a silly one, obviously nobody wants an Emperor of Europe or whatever.

LowKeyReturn

I'd ask you if you've noting better to do at 1:41 on a Saturday night but then I was playing computer games.

Slightly different take but what if we were to rejoin the Commonwealth?

Victor

ResearchWill wrote: »

Article 12
1. There shall be a President of Ireland (Uachtarán na hÉireann), hereinafter called the President, who shall take precedence over all other persons in the State

Fluff.

Also the following "2. 1° Titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State"

That's OK, because (a) the title of nobility was conferred by a different state and (b) we could call them "Chief Bottle Washer (Supervising)" and assign the duties of "Bottle Washer" to the president under Article 12.1

who shall exercise and perform the powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution and by law.

Cody Pomeray

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

I'd ask you if you've noting better to do at 1:41 on a Saturday night but then I was playing computer games.

I broke my leg two weeks ago, been ploughing through my college work; this is the kind of nonsense I've been left thinking about :mad:

Slightly different take but what if we were to rejoin the Commonwealth?

We may re-join the Commonwealth and in doing so, essentially re-introduce the British monarch as head of state by a simple Act of the Oireachtas.

Of course, I think this is all very fanciful; it's just a semi interesting Constitutional anomaly (if you have a broken leg).

I could see it having some possible application in the event of there arising a Head of State officeholder in the European Union, although the concept of a Constitutional Presidency is not as fashionable as it was in the WW2 era.

It also suggests that there may be some value in finally revisiting this aspect of our constitution, designating ourselves as a republic, and broadening the scope of the Presidency.

LowKeyReturn

Hope you're on the mend!