Should we be stockpiling gold and silver?

silentrust

As Survivalists we know there could come a time when money could go back to just being paper.

My Get Home Bag contains a few low value notes which may retain some worth for a short time post collapse but frankly if I ever need to use the bag think they would be just that much kindling.

A fellow prepper back home has started buying silver and gold coins in anticipation of the impending apocalypse. He feels gold will retain its value long after currency is defunct as it has always retained its value.

I asked him to take a step back and think about the store of value placed in gold. You can't eat it, live in it, can't even smelt it into anything worth a damn either.

As such I think it could lose its value for the same reasons as currency, although it would probably pick up a lot faster as a trading medium as society started to rebuild itself.

Low value trade goods like jars of coffee or bottles of whiskey seem to be preferable to me but I would be interested to hear all your thoughts on this - am I being overly pessimistic?

spynappels

I'd basically agree, it's much easier to trade or barter items which are immediately useful to either party, those who can trade for stuff not immediately useful, or even not useful in the short term, will likely already have what they need and will be less likely to give a "fair" value.

"Fair" is obviously relative in the above statement, as in "All's fair in love and SHTF"

silentrust

spynappels wrote: »

I'd basically agree, it's much easier to trade or barter items which are immediately useful to either party, those who can trade for stuff not immediately useful, or even not useful in the short term, will likely already have what they need and will be less likely to give a "fair" value.

"Fair" is obviously relative in the above statement, as in "All's fair in love and SHTF"

Well said chief,

A few months ago I read the post apocalyptic novel "Wolf and Iron" which involved a man with a belt full of gold sovereigns which he had saved up via a magazine subscription.

He tries to hawk them to a local tradesman in exchange for food and supplies who essentially says as we've done, that tools and food are more useful.

The post by the Bosnian guy who runs the shtfschool.com website says that his family burnt through all their gold jewelry in exchange for ammunition - makes you wonder if you've supplies to spare if it wouldn't be worth trading for a little precious metal.

Tabnabs

Gold prices since 2000.



I wouldn't be buying into it any time soon. When it drops below $1000, then it's worth keeping a closer eye on it.

Post-SHTF, how would the average person know what's the genuine article and what's a forgery? It would probably be worth knowing how to fake it, just in case you are tricked of course...

silentrust

Tabnabs wrote: »

Gold prices since 2000.



I wouldn't be buying into it any time soon. When it drops below $1000, then it's worth keeping a closer eye on it.

Post-SHTF, how would the average person know what's the genuine article and what's a forgery? It would probably be worth knowing how to fake it, just in case you are tricked of course...

Thanks Tabnabs,

As an investment medium I would recommend opening an account with Goldmoney rather than buying metal directly but of course this would be just as futile as any savings account post collapse.

With regard to testing gold, checking for the hallmark and biting down on it isn't particularly reliable. When I used to trade in jewelry I just put dripped a little nitric acid on it. Green meant fake or gold plated. If it stayed clear it was kosher.

Agree that nitric acid would be rather hard to come by though! :-)

Danpad

I've been stockpiling my own form of 'gold' in the shape of bog roll, coffee and first aid kit/hygiene products.

silentrust

Danpad wrote: »

I've been stockpiling my own form of 'gold' in the shape of bog roll, coffee and first aid kit/hygiene products.

That's the spirit Danpad - re: hygiene products I've just bought some foot powder, apparently it's worth its weight in gold if you're going to be doing a lot of walking with precious few opportunities to do the laundry... think we're on to something here.. :-)

Danpad

As are socks :-) they're going to be priceless! Also, IMO - honey, lemon juice and cinnamon, we've been mixng these three with hot water for years whenever we have flu, colds, chest infections and they've really helped. (that's just our personal experience though) I also have a plentiful supply of can openers as well, which I'm sure I could trade ;-)

eirator

I think if you can afford it then there's no harm to stockpiling gold. Agreed in any short term SHTF situation its probably worthless but if there is a recovery where the traditional economy is banjaxed there has to be something that has trading value in place of coinage. How for example do you buy bog roll from someone with potatoes if they don't want potatoes? Answer trade potatoes with someone who has gold and then use the gold to by your bog roll. I know thats over simplified but its just an example of how we've got used to buying things with money and might be quickly looking for something to use as a replacement.

eirator

Danpad wrote: »

.... I also have a plentiful supply of can openers as well, which I'm sure I could trade ;-)

Great idea but last time I checked and I looked a a good lot of cans in my store and in the shops they were 99% ring pull opening.

Danpad

eirator wrote: »

Great idea but last time I checked and I looked a a good lot of cans in my store and in the shops they were 99% ring pull opening.

hmm, perhaps the Aldi & Lidl in my area are even skimpier than the rest as it's the other way round with me...99% are not ring pull opening. As for the bartering and trading, I'm sticking with my bog roll, someone will always need it considering the amount of beans preppers will have stored :eek:

silentrust

eirator wrote: »

I think if you can afford it then there's no harm to stockpiling gold. Agreed in any short term SHTF situation its probably worthless but if there is a recovery where the traditional economy is banjaxed there has to be something that has trading value in place of coinage. How for example do you buy bog roll from someone with potatoes if they don't want potatoes? Answer trade potatoes with someone who has gold and then use the gold to by your bog roll. I know thats over simplified but its just an example of how we've got used to buying things with money and might be quickly looking for something to use as a replacement.

Hi eirator,

Gold Money tells me that a single gram of gold costs just under USD 45 - imagine the number of bandages, jars of coffee and rolls of toilet paper you could get for that. If you have cash to spare, I say lay these in and swap them for gold with those that have it post-collapse, no doubt day to day items will be worth their weight! :-)

They'll always be short minded people who went and raided the local jewellers when the SHTF, not so many people like us who think more long term.

silentrust

Danpad wrote: »

hmm, perhaps the Aldi & Lidl in my area are even skimpier than the rest as it's the other way round with me...99% are not ring pull opening. As for the bartering and trading, I'm sticking with my bog roll, someone will always need it considering the amount of beans preppers will have stored :eek:

You can never have too much of it can you? :-) - Suggest you get some of the quilted stuff then dangle it before all those people who've been using strips of newspaper and leaves and watch them waddle over to you desperate to trade! :-D

silentrust

I would like to keep chickens. You've heard of the goose that lays the golden eggs? :-)

aaakev

silentrust wrote: »

I would like to keep chickens. You've heard of the goose that lays the golden eggs? :-)

Chickens and rabbits, great preps if you have the space and not much work for alot of return

silentrust

aaakev wrote: »

Chickens and rabbits, great preps if you have the space and not much work for alot of return

Their leavings make for wonderful compost as well as their use as food. Could you kill a rabbit or chicken though? I couldn't bear it!

aaakev

silentrust wrote: »

Their leavings make for wonderful compost as well as their use as food. Could you kill a rabbit or chicken though? I couldn't bear it!

Regularly do, I eat rabbit every week nearly because i hunt them and i eat phesent during the humting season when i can shoot them. Rabbit is one of the leanest meats you can get and it tastes great!

Iv offered it before so ill offer it again for any of the regulars on this forum, if you ever want to try your hand at hunting and learn what its about id be happy to bring ya out and let you try it out

silentrust

aaakev wrote: »

Regularly do, I eat rabbit every week nearly because i hunt them and i eat phesent during the humting season when i can shoot them. Rabbit is one of the leanest meats you can get and it tastes great!

Iv offered it before so ill offer it again for any of the regulars on this forum, if you ever want to try your hand at hunting and learn what its about id be happy to bring ya out and let you try it out

Post collapse I promise to trade fruit & veg with you for meat and fish, it'll be like Steptoe and Son sans the horrid cockney accents.

sheesh

RE gold I think it depends on how wide spread the situation is if the situation only affected ireland then it is a no brainer having gold could mean the difference between having to stay put and going to live in another country that wasn't affected. as long as there is a market somewhere for gold it would be worth having some at the moment though it is a bit high to buy as an investment.

Danpad

sheesh wrote: »

RE gold I think it depends on how wide spread the situation is if the situation only affected ireland then it is a no brainer having gold could mean the difference between having to stay put and going to live in another country that wasn't affected. as long as there is a market somewhere for gold it would be worth having some at the moment though it is a bit high to buy as an investment.

I think that's the key; there has to be a market for it. If the world goes down the swanny then there may be very few people who are looking so far ahead to times when gold becomes viable again. IMO, if it gets bad, most will be looking at where their next rat and grass stew is going to come from. So, when we roll up offering a can of beans and some salt and flour to make some flat bread we'll be viewed as rock stars........when we whip out the can opener from our back pocket we'll be viewed as rock GODS

The Aussie

Danpad wrote: »

.when we whip out the can opener from our back pocket we'll be viewed as rock GODS

Why am I thinking of the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy" with the indestructible Coke Bottle....

jugger

silentrust wrote: »

Their leavings make for wonderful compost as well as their use as food. Could you kill a rabbit or chicken though? I couldn't bear it!

you could do it silentrust you just have never been hungry enough that's all

@ aaakev

you said

I eat rabbit every week nearly because i hunt them and i eat pheasant during the hunting season when i can shoot them. Rabbit is one of the leanest meats you can get and it tastes great!

I thought rabbit meat was too lean and caused rabbit starvation
source ( I know I know its wiki so I am taking it with a pinch of salt )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

as an occasional supplement to a diet they would be nice but would it be worth keeping them as a food source would it be worth the effort as the return is so little ???

I am just asking as wifey has a pet rabbit ( sir hopsalot )and I would give serious thought to getting a second so I could harvest there offspring if it was worth it nutrition wise

silentrust

Danpad wrote: »

I think that's the key; there has to be a market for it. If the world goes down the swanny then there may be very few people who are looking so far ahead to times when gold becomes viable again. IMO, if it gets bad, most will be looking at where their next rat and grass stew is going to come from. So, when we roll up offering a can of beans and some salt and flour
to make some flat bread we'll be viewed as rock stars........when we whip out the can opener from our back pocket we'll be viewed as rock GODS

Just pray we don't get lynched in the meantime! :-)

sheesh

jugger wrote: »

you could do it silentrust you just have never been hungry enough that's all

@ aaakev

you said

I eat rabbit every week nearly because i hunt them and i eat pheasant during the hunting season when i can shoot them. Rabbit is one of the leanest meats you can get and it tastes great!

I thought rabbit meat was too lean and caused rabbit starvation
source ( I know I know its wiki so I am taking it with a pinch of salt )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

as an occasional supplement to a diet they would be nice but would it be worth keeping them as a food source would it be worth the effort as the return is so little ???

I am just asking as wifey has a pet rabbit ( sir hopsalot )and I would give serious thought to getting a second so I could harvest there offspring if it was worth it nutrition wise

thats only if you eat only rabbit meat and nothing else. bought one once from a local butcher I have to say it was feckin lovely on the bar-b-q! tastes like bacon texture like chicken

silentrust

jugger wrote: »

you could do it silentrust you just have never been hungry enough that's all

@ aaakev

you said

I eat rabbit every week nearly because i hunt them and i eat pheasant during the hunting season when i can shoot them. Rabbit is one of the leanest meats you can get and it tastes great!

I thought rabbit meat was too lean and caused rabbit starvation
source ( I know I know its wiki so I am taking it with a pinch of salt )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

as an occasional supplement to a diet they would be nice but would it be worth keeping them as a food source would it be worth the effort as the return is so little ???

I am just asking as wifey has a pet rabbit ( sir hopsalot )and I would give serious thought to getting a second so I could harvest there offspring if it was worth it nutrition wise

Hurt a little fluffy bunny? Never! This is why I grow veg and want to keep chickens for the eggs... If it comes down to it, I'll trade a live one with one of you for something essential and you can kill it at your leisure.

ShadowFox

Danpad wrote: »

I've been stockpiling my own form of 'gold' in the shape of bog roll, coffee and first aid kit/hygiene products.

Like Danpad Ive been stocking up on bog roll, coffee, cuppa soups, first aid, hygiene, water purification tablets and a few cheap tools that I dont use any more but rather than dump them I put them away in a tub

eirator

ShadowFox wrote: »

Like Danpad Ive been stocking up on bog roll, coffee, cuppa soups, first aid, hygiene, water purification tablets and a few cheap tools that I dont use any more but rather than dump them I put them away in a tub

Keep an eye on the cuppa soups because I found that some have a much shorter usable shelf life than you'd imagine. I expected them to be fine well after the UBD but I threw out a load that went off just after the UBD. Some cuppa soups need thoughtful handling as the dried contents have pointy edges which perforate that sealed bags if much weight it put on them.

eirator

silentrust wrote: »

Hurt a little fluffy bunny? Never! This is why I grow veg and want to keep chickens for the eggs... If it comes down to it, I'll trade a live one with one of you for something essential and you can kill it at your leisure.

Just wait till there's a little fluffy bunny grazing its way through your veg patch, you'll be planning all sorts of cruel and unusual revenge.

silentrust

ShadowFox wrote: »

Like Danpad Ive been stocking up on bog roll, coffee, cuppa soups, first aid, hygiene, water purification tablets and a few cheap tools that I dont use any more but rather than dump them I put them away in a tub

That's the spirit Shadowfox, anything you don't use can be traded for something you need.

My better half and I keep a large supply of food underneath the double bed and operate a "first in last out" rotation.

Apparently one of the first mistakes survivalists make is to stockpile food they don't actually eat, and in some cases have no way to prepare e.g bags of grain, so I thought we would keep it simple by laying in food we eat anyway.

Would like to ask you more about water purification tablets but perhaps best to do this in separate thread.

ShadowFox

eirator wrote: »

Keep an eye on the cuppa soups because I found that some have a much shorter usable shelf life than you'd imagine. I expected them to be fine well after the UBD but I threw out a load that went off just after the UBD. Some cuppa soups need thoughtful handling as the dried contents have pointy edges which perforate that sealed bags if much weight it put on them.

I opened one that was passed its UBD (didnt check) I would not recommend it I nearly turned inside out after. So now I check and double check. Another few items that are handy to stockpile would be Lighters, Matches, Candles, Even some batteries but not too many

Danpad

I frequent the 'euro-giant' (read: old pound shop) stores and pick up a pack of lighters and antiseptic creams and lotions and band aids most times. If a massive sit X ever hits us it'll be the small things IMO like cuts and grazes getting infected that'll turn into killers.

silentrust

Danpad wrote: »

I frequent the 'euro-giant' (read: old pound shop) stores and pick up a pack of lighters and antiseptic creams and lotions and band aids most times. If a massive sit X ever hits us it'll be the small things IMO like cuts and grazes getting infected that'll turn into killers.

Well said Danpad - for this reason I am desperately trying to find a long term solution to the lack of antibiotics, although I agree with you that prevention is better than cure.

Liquid iodine will no doubt be worth its weight in gold as it not only is a great disinfectant but as you know it's also useful for sterilising water. We may have to make our peace with the fact that any moderately serious injuries will be fatal if society collapses, pray we don't have to find out! :-)

H.O.T.A.S.

I think most of us are prepping with limited resources and justifying the huge expenditure on Gold and Sterling Silver is very hard. I would much rather invest the money in equipment and supplies that are usefull of tradeable.

Can't beat the God tier tradeable items like broad spectrum antibiotics, pain killers, disinfectants, knives and ammunition

silentrust

H.O.T.A.S. wrote: »

I think most of us are prepping with limited resources and justifying the huge expenditure on Gold and Sterling Silver is very hard. I would much rather invest the money in equipment and supplies that are usefull of tradeable.

Can't beat the God tier tradeable items like broad spectrum antibiotics, pain killers, disinfectants, knives and ammunition

Well said H.O.T.A.S, words to live by folks!

Rhinocharge

In a nutshell you can eat gold or silver, but there is no nutritional value.
Therefore it's of no use to you.

@ over €1038 per ounce. You'd be better off investing in yourself & your family. €1038 buys alot of kit, tinned food & if you've the land fruit trees.

Gold has dropped in price recently too.
http://goldpricenetwork.com/goldprice/europe/

sketchpad

Rhinocharge wrote: »

In a nutshell you can eat gold or silver, but there is no nutritional value.............You'd be better off investing in yourself & your family.

I agree, gold would just be used to obtain items you should be storing now.

If its as an investment based on present day value and societal conditions forget about it. The time to rebuild an economy to current levels from a bartering economy will, IMO, take longer than a generation.

silentrust

Thought I would tell you guys, I've sold the last of my shares which were backed by gold to get gardening equipment, at least you can eat the fruits of that labour. :-)

aaakev

silentrust wrote: »

Thought I would tell you guys, I've sold the last of my shares which were backed by gold to get gardening equipment, at least you can eat the fruits of that labour. :-)

What ya plannin on buyin??