City Cycling Safely

bikemedvol

Hi Guys,
Just a few observations on safe cycling during daylight versus nighttime.

Daytime: I cycle a hybrid with 8 lights on it 4 front & back, panniers have hi-vis tape on the back and sides, hi-vis tape on the frame. I also wear either a plain yellow hi-vis jacket or green/yellow ambulance vest with no markings and helmet.
Now I consider myself a cyclist who obeys the rules of the road and the SI's re Road traffic acts, stop at lights, use of cycle lanes, indicate in plenty of time for turns or lane changes.
But what annoys me is the amount of times I have been near run off the road, or nearly crashed into by cars/lorrys/buses or other cyclists. because drivers dont pay attention or have whats known as situational awarness.
Now when it comes to daytime I have a minimum of 4 lights working, 2 front- 2 rear. Depending on what hi-vis vest I wear and I have 2, one is plain yellow and the other is a green/yellow ambulance long sleeved vest.
The difference in consideration is considerable when I wear my ambulance vest with no markings, as I have noticed the majority of road users when the see it actually pay attention to what there doing compared to when I have my plain yellow one on.

When it comes to cycling at night , my bike is lit up like a mobile christmas tree, as I will have all my lights on with a combination of 50/50 flashing and steady along with the extra hi-vis tape on the frame and panniers I have yet to have any incidents with other road users, compared to when I stared off cycling 3 years ago, when I only had the standard 2 lights on the bike.

Now saying that I have witnessed other cyclist during day/night time with no safety gear on, doing the usual stupid things, on footpaths, against traffic and the usual not stopping at red lights, no signal when turning or lane changing. I have come up with a new term for cyclist who break the law or act like idiots.
ORGAN DONORS

Dermot Illogical

bikemedvol wrote: »

Now saying that I have witnessed other cyclist during day/night time with no safety gear on, doing the usual stupid things, on footpaths, against traffic and the usual not stopping at red lights, no signal when turning or lane changing. I have come up with a new term for cyclist who break the law or act like idiots.
ORGAN DONORS

My experience has been different. I find that most cyclists who use footpads, cycle against the flow or jump red lights seem to wear RSA bibs.

tunguska

bikemedvol wrote: »

because drivers dont pay attention or have whats known as situational awarness.

I think thats it in a nutshell. I drive and I cycle and what I've noticed is how much more aware I am of cyclists than I was when I just drove.
I dont have the exact figures to hand but Im pretty sure a lot of people who drive have no appreciation or awareness when it comes to cyclists, they think only about other cars, buses, trucks etc. And when somebody has that limited frame of perception it dont matter how many lights you have on your bike or how loud your high vis vest is, they dont see you, they dont look out for you, its like a blind spot. Cycling at night Im lit up like a crimbo tree aswell but I've found that its suicide to asume that motorists will see you. You gotta operate on the principle that the person in the car is oblivious to your presence. This thinking has saved me from certain death so many times. I cant remember who said it, but this quote stuck with me: You gotta ride your bike like everybody on the road is trying to kill you.

veetwin

bikemedvol wrote: »

But what annoys me is the amount of times I have been near run off the road, or nearly crashed into by cars/lorrys/buses or other cyclists. because drivers dont pay attention or have whats known as situational awarness

OK I cycle through Dublin City Centre fairly regularly and I honestly can't remember been near run off the road or nearly crashing into other road users. You get the odd motorist who will turn into you path unintentionally but you should really be reading this and spotting the signs of a motorist who is away in another world.

Are you positioning yourself properly on the road? All the lights and high viz gear in the world won't save you if you ride in a blind spot where other road users can't see you. Do you cycle in the gutter inviting motorists to overtake you when they should perhaps wait for a wider stretch of road?

Motorists in general have no interest in running cyclists off the road. However a good place to start from is to assume that many are stupid/unaware/on the phone/in their own little world.

Thankfully you are wrong about the organ donor reference. Cyclist fatalitites are thankfully rare enough nowadays compared to even a few years ago.

Tomred13

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

My experience has been different. I find that most cyclists who use footpads, cycle against the flow or jump red lights seem to wear RSA bibs.

Have to agree with Mr Illogical, was cycling in the quays last night and passed a person cycling with an RSA hi-vis vest, lights, mirrors and helmet. all the safety equip you could have. later down the road i was stopped at a redlight near the manor st junction on the quays when the very same cyclist cycled straight across four lanes of traffic almost causing a pile up, i wouldnt mind but there were about 15 other cyclist all stopped at the lights, the person didnt even acknowledge what they had done.. myself and the other cyclist stopped at the lights all looked at each other and thought we were witnessing a fatality. i couldnt believe that some idiot would go to all the bother to be safe and then endanger themselves and others in such a stupid manner.
Tom

SolarFlash

My advice to cyclists in Dublin would be to slow down a lot and stop being so angry. You are always wrong the pedestrian is ALWAYS right.

rp

Hi-viz clothing is worthless.
Hi-viz road positioning will save your life.

ezra_pound

SolarFlash wrote: »

My advice to cyclists in Dublin would be to slow down a lot and stop being so angry. You are always wrong the pedestrian is ALWAYS right.

I'm sorry but pedestrians walking out in front of a bicycle without looking and wearing a hood to block view is wrong stupid and irresponsible. Its like cycling in pitch black darkness on a black bike in a black ninja suitand braking lights and on the wrong side of the road.

Squidgy Black

SolarFlash wrote: »

My advice to cyclists in Dublin would be to slow down a lot and stop being so angry. You are always wrong the pedestrian is ALWAYS right.

I hardly see how a pedestrian stepping out in front of a cyclist without looking or noticing he's heading towards him is 'always right'.

ezra_pound

SolarFlash wrote: »

My advice to cyclists in Dublin would be to slow down a lot and stop being so angry. You are always wrong the pedestrian is ALWAYS right.

Troll? Lemming?

Wishbone Ash

bikemedvol wrote: »

I have come up with a new term for cyclist who break the law or act like idiots.
ORGAN DONORS

How unoriginal! Lots came up with it before you.

PS - what's an "ambulance vest"?

SolarFlash

It doesn't matter if a pedestrian walks out in front of a cyclist. People make mistakes that's reality. You have to be observant and stop to avoid a collision. Just like cars have too.

You guys will seriously hurt and maybe even kill someone with this deranged notion that you have a right to plow down a pedestrian who dares to get in your way.

Squidgy Black

SolarFlash wrote: »

It doesn't matter if a pedestrian walks out in front of a cyclist. People make mistakes that's reality. You have to be observant and stop to avoid a collision. Just like cars have too.

You guys will seriously hurt and maybe even kill someone with this deranged notion that you have a right to plow down a pedestrian who dares to get in your way.

What on earth are you talking about. Nobody believes they have the right to hit anyone on the road. Everyone should just obey the rules of the road, including the ignorant pedestrians who seem to jump out in front of traffic in town all the time. I've seen it happen with taxis and cars plenty of times too, idiots who refuse to walk the extra 5 metres and wait 10 seconds and a set of lights, and just walk out onto the road as if they're iron man. People will only get hurt out of their own stupidity and carelessness.

RobertFoster

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

PS - what's an "ambulance vest"?

-PornStar-

SolarFlash wrote: »

It doesn't matter if a pedestrian walks out in front of a cyclist. People make mistakes that's reality. You have to be observant and stop to avoid a collision. Just like cars have too.

You guys will seriously hurt and maybe even kill someone with this deranged notion that you have a right to plow down a pedestrian who dares to get in your way.

Yeah, you guys!

Beasty

ezra_pound wrote: »

Troll? Lemming?

If you have a problem with a post report it and let the mods deal with it as they see fit. Suggesting someone is a troll is backseat modding and can expect to result in sanctions if repeated

Any questions PM me - do not respond in-thread

Thanks

Beasty

ezra_pound

SolarFlash wrote: »

It doesn't matter if a pedestrian walks out in front of a cyclist. People make mistakes that's reality. You have to be observant and stop to avoid a collision. Just like cars have too.

You guys will seriously hurt and maybe even kill someone with this deranged notion that you have a right to plow down a pedestrian who dares to get in your way.

Yes we know that cyclists need to be observant and ready to stop to avoid collision.

We don't believe that we have as right to plows into anyone.

By asserting that the Pedestrian is always right, you are arguing that pedestrians can be reckless and walk out in front of road vehicles and assume that sometimes else will assume responsibility.

That is stupid.

Enjoy life. Look before you cross the road.
PS cyclists are pedestrians at the weekends when they leave their bikes behind. We dont come from different planets.

Spook_ie

ezra_pound wrote: »

Yes we know that cyclists need to be observant and ready to stop to avoid collision.

We don't believe that we have as right to plows into anyone.

By asserting that the Pedestrian is always right, you are arguing that pedestrians can be reckless and walk out in front of road vehicles and assume that sometimes else will assume responsibility.

That is stupid.

Enjoy life. Look before you cross the road.
PS cyclists are pedestrians at the weekends when they leave their bikes behind. We dont come from different planets.

Advice from the RSA

Vehicles do not have an automatic right of way on the road. The overriding rule is, in all circumstances, proceed with caution.

You must always yield to:

pedestrians already crossing at a junction,
pedestrians on a zebra crossing,
pedestrians on a pelican crossing when the amber light is flashing, and
pedestrians and traffic when you are moving off from a stationary position (for example from your position at a stop sign or a parking space).

To avoid doubt and in the interest of road safety a vehicle should always yield to pedestrians. You must also yield to:

traffic already turning at a junction,
traffic in another lane when you wish to change lanes, and
traffic on a public road when you are coming out of a private entrance.

Cookie_Monster

bikemedvol wrote: »

I cycle a hybrid with 8 lights on it 4 front & back, panniers have hi-vis tape on the back and sides, hi-vis tape on the frame. I also wear either a plain yellow hi-vis jacket or green/yellow ambulance vest with no markings and helmet.

maybe you keep blinding motorists with all that

endacl

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

maybe you keep blinding motorists with all that

I was pulled over in Phibsboro last November for being too visible. Lots of both passive and active illumination. Luckily, not an offence, and the two guards in the car did see me after all. Job done...

jimmycrackcorm

I've come to the conclusion that when cycling, 99% of your safety focus should be at junctions and roundabouts.

endacl

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion that when cycling, 99% of your safety focus should be at junctions and roundabouts.

Nah. 100% everywhere. Your safety is your responsibility. There's lots of straight bits between junctions and roundabouts.

Wishbone Ash

Spook_ie wrote: »

Advice from the RSA

Vehicles do not have an automatic right of way on the road. The overriding rule is, in all circumstances, proceed with caution.

You must always yield to:

pedestrians already crossing at a junction,
pedestrians on a zebra crossing,
pedestrians on a pelican crossing when the amber light is flashing, and
pedestrians and traffic when you are moving off from a stationary position (for example from your position at a stop sign or a parking space).

That's all very well but it doesn't cover those frequent scenarios where a pedestrian suddenly darts across the street without looking as a cyclist is rounding a corner in the city center.

How can the cyclist be deemed responsible then?

Spook_ie

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That's all very well but it doesn't cover those frequent scenarios where a pedestrian suddenly darts across the street without looking as a cyclist is rounding a corner in the city center.

How can the cyclist be deemed responsible then?

Difficult but the rule of thumb from the RSA is still

To avoid doubt and in the interest of road safety a vehicle should always yield to pedestrians.

-PornStar-

Spook_ie wrote: »

Difficult but the rule of thumb from the RSA is still

Just because you should yield to pedestrians. Does not necessarily mean they are in the right.

Spook_ie

-PornStar- wrote: »

Just because you should yield to pedestrians. Does not necessarily mean they are in the right.

Never said they were in the right.

Wishbone Ash

One can only "yield" to something that one is aware of in advance!

PS - I'm not trying to be awkward. I do a lot of urban cycling and would consider myself to be quite responsible and law abiding. However I have had several close calls with pedestrians suddenly crossing the street particularly at junctions. (The latest only a few days ago at Exchequer Street/South William Street junction where I made contact with a female pedestrian who stepped in front of me).

Spook_ie

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

One can only "yield" to something that one is aware of in advance!

PS - I'm not trying to be awkward. I do a lot of urban cycling and would consider myself to be quite responsible and law abiding. However I have had several close calls with pedestrians suddenly crossing the street particularly at junctions. (The latest only a few days ago at Exchequer Street/South William Street junction where I made contact with a female pedestrian who stepped in front of me).

Technicality, if you break then you are yielding, whether circumstances allow you to slow/stop sufficiently is a different thing altogether

ezra_pound

SolarFlash wrote: »

My advice to cyclists in Dublin would be to slow down a lot and stop being so angry. You are always wrong the pedestrian is ALWAYS right.

I think you said that they're ALWAYS right.

There's a difference between right of way and recklessly throwing oneself infront of traffic.

johnk123

tunguska wrote: »

I think thats it in a nutshell. I drive and I cycle and what I've noticed is how much more aware I am of cyclists than I was when I just drove.

Would have to agree 100%. I came to college 3 years ago and up until then had only learned to drive on local roads and around towns etc where there is little cycling going on.

When I first drove around town before I cycled I was afraid I was going to hit someone because I felt that people were swaying all over the shop on their bikes!

Since starting to cycle properly, and particularly as commuting in and out of college it does definitely make you more aware as a driver. You leave plenty of room at the left as you know how frustrating it is to not be able to get through in traffic etc etc. You know that if a cyclist is in front of you and a bus stops at a stop that the cyclist is most likely to move out and overtake and if there is oncoming traffic you just have to slow down and let them pass safely, then overtake.


It's these kind of things that I think are what you can only gain by doing a bit of cycling yourself. It's very hard to explain that type of thing or to try and teach road uses how to have a feel for the likely movements of cyclists etc... the bus example... I tried to have this conversation with a gent who was in his 50's and complaining about cyclists in town.. he said that the cyclist should stop behind the bus and wait as it will be slower than both car and bus... some people will never get it....

dark_jedi_ire

Have to Admit, Since I started Cycling, I am now a LOT more aware of Cyclists,,, Was always good with giving them room noticing them, now much more aware,, Still grinds My gears those who cycle on Paths and Jump Lights and go againest flow of traffic,,