Upgrading GPU

gamer_Niall

This is my build at the moment.


_ ATX tower case: Cooler Master HAF 922
_ Power Supply:750W
_ CPU:i5-750
_ ATX Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D - Socket 1156
_ RAM:Corsair Dominator 16GB
_ Graphics/video card:Radeon HD 5970 2GB
_ Hard drive(s): Hitachi Deskstar 1TB
_ optical drive (DVD burner or Blu-ray): Sony Optiarc
_ Operating System software:Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit


My Radeon HD 5970 2GB seems to be dieing, getting crazy low fps in games and screen freezing etc.

My question is what would be a good upgrade from this, and are all my other components compatible? I was looking at a GTX 680?

Serephucus

680 is horrible value. A 770 (basically the same card) will be much cheaper. Give it two weeks.

(That, or a 780, if you have the money)

gamer_Niall

The 780 looks a bit pricey, I'm willing to spend around 500 or so. Are prices dropping in two weeks? ha

Serephucus

Sorry, got my NDAs mixed up. They might drop a little, but not hugely. In that case the 770 is probably your best bet.

BloodBath

A 7950 is better value if sticking with single gpu imo. They can be got for as little as €260 with a good cooler.

gamer_Niall

I think I might go with the 780, but can anyone tell me what is the difference between the MSI, ASUS, PNY cards and why they are all priced differently? They all seem to have the same specs.

Also is my mobo compatible for this card?

Gumbi

gamer_Niall wrote: »

I think I might go with the 780, but can anyone tell me what is the difference between the MSI, ASUS, PNY cards and why they are all priced differently? They all seem to have the same specs.

Also is my mobo compatible for this card?

Different coolers mainly I would think.

I'm not sure if companies pay extra for higher binned chips (chips that are capable of tolerating higher speeds at lower temps (keeping it simple) which makes them potentially faster if one overclocks). Someone can confirm or deny this.

But mainly, different coolers.

Serephucus

As far as I know, there's only reference design 780s out so far. Also (again, AFAIK) companies get given the same silicon, then bin them internally for OC models, etc.

At this point, pretty much the only difference is the warranty (EVGA get my vote there).

gamer_Niall

Any thoughts on my mobo and other components using this card? All will run smooth together?

I'm looking at a PNY GTX 780 on Pixmania for 649 anyone see cheaper on their travels?

BloodBath

I think you're crazy pumping that much into a card with a horrible price/performance ratio when the rest of your system is a few generations old. You could sell your board and processor for about €120 leaving you with €770 to spend.

With that you could get a 4670k Haswell with a new board, a 120gb samsung 840 ssd, a coolermaster 212 evo cpu cooler and one of the many 680 gtx or 7970's being sold for around €300 atm.

There's even enough there to get a good sli capable board, get a 680gtx and another cheap 1 in a year for sli which will outperform even the top single gpu next gen card.

That would be a full system upgrade for less than the 780gtx and with overclocking on the processor and card you wouldn't be far off the performance gains you would get with a 780 in your current system with parts that will hold their value better and have better upgrade options.

beno619

+1 what Bloodbath said ^

marco_polo

Gumbi wrote: »

Different coolers mainly I would think.

I'm not sure if companies pay extra for higher binned chips (chips that are capable of tolerating higher speeds at lower temps (keeping it simple) which makes them potentially faster if one overclocks). Someone can confirm or deny this.

But mainly, different coolers.

AFAIK AMD and NVIDIA would bin solely based on maximising yields (does this meet the minimum requirements for a 7970 or need to be downgraded to a 7950 or 7870XT). It is up to individual vendors if they want to bin them further.

Not quite sure sure how true this is, but I have read before that because there are so many variables in what makes a good OC GPU, it is not even really feasible to bin the GPU based soley on OCing ability until the entire board has been fully build

For example a GPU that can run lower voltages at stock, and on the face of would appear to be a better prospect, often hits an OCing wall well before one that has higher leakage and needs more voltage to run at stock.

BloodBath

That would make sense and explain why amd's stock 7900 series was clocked at 800/5000 when the majority of them will do at least 1000/6000 with stock voltages and cooler.

Stick a decent cooler on it and some more voltage and it's 1200/7000.

marco_polo

BloodBath wrote: »

That would make sense and explain why amd's stock 7900 series was clocked at 800/5000 when the majority of them will do at least 1000/6000 with stock voltages and cooler.

Stick a decent cooler on it and some more voltage and it's 1200/7000.

True, now that you mention it I suspect a good chunk of the 7870XTs are "leaky" HD7950s ie. fine when oc with but not quite stable enough at the lower stock voltages.

tornados2111

Where can I get a gtx 680 for 300 euro?

BloodBath

I said around 300. If you are willing to buy second hand you can get perfect cards for that. There will be quite a few sold as people upgrade to 780's. There's 2 on adverts.ie at the moment for €350. A reasonable offer should get the price down a bit. They can be got for as little as €300 on ebay if you can be arsed bidding for stuff.

I got a perfectly good sapphire 7970 on ebay fully boxed with all accessories for €300 six months ago. I'm sure they could be got even cheaper now. It's not that risky if you are buying relatively new cards and at least you're insured on ebay.

The only game it can't handle at max settings at 1080p is crysis 3. Most are a solid 60fps with the odd exception like metro 2033. Both it and the processor are overclocked though.

There's good deals to be had on new 7970's as well. 4 free games to sweeten the deal.

http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/PowerColor+Radeon+HD+7970+3GB+GDDR5+Graphics+Card+%5BAX7970+3GBD5-2DHV3%5D+%2B+4+FREE+GAMES%21+?productId=53491

tornados2111

Ah ok. I'm wondering I should just go with something like a 7850. I could probably pull off 350 for the video card but I don't really know if the value is good. After all it's pretty much doubling the price but is the performance gain really that extremely significant?

BloodBath

It depends on whatever your happy playing at. Do you mind turning down settings? Do you want a solid 60 frame per second. What resolution are you playing at?

A 7850 is a capable card. I would say a 7870xt is probably the best value card at the moment though. Especially with the game deals. It's not a whole lot more than a 2gb 7850.

There's lot's of deals going on for all of those cards though if you shop around you might get something good. Aria run good deals a fair bit. I've never bought from them though.

http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/XFX+Double+D+Radeon+HD+7870+GHz+Edition+%28Tahiti+LE%29+OC+2GB+GDDR5+Graphics+Card+%5BFX-787A-CNAC%5D+%2B+4+FREE+GAMES%21+?productId=55140

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Graphics+Cards/AMD+Radeon/Radeon+HD+7950/XFX+Double+D+Radeon+HD+7950+3GB+GDDR5+Graphics+Card+%5BFX-795A-TDJC%5D+%2B+4+FREE+GAMES%21+?productId=52185

tornados2111

I'm running at 1050p.
Does Aria ship to Ireland?
The problem I'm having with figuring out the price effectiveness and value is that I can't look up benchmarks for all of the graphics cards. Because different sites offer there own benchmarks which of course are run in different parts of games so you can't compile all of the data and make a choice based on that...

BloodBath

And the benchmarks are taken at different times with different drivers that skew results as well. They are also using different cards at different clock speeds. The best way to compare them is at their max stable overclocks which tends to be around 1200/6000 with a decent cooler and card. The newer ones seem to be able to reach these speeds easier than older ones but it's still a silicon lottery.

From what I've seen in benchmarks though when all overclocked the 7870xt is about 20% off a 7950 which is about 8% off a 7970. So a 7970 is about 30% better than a 7870xt.

The 7970 in the test is only a mild factory overclock which is why it's scoring lower than the 7950.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5158/sapphire_radeon_hd_7870_xt_tahiti_le_2gb_with_boost_overclocked_video_card_review/index.html

Yeah they do delivery costs seem high though. Theres similar priced cards on Amazon with free shipping. Does anyone know if you can get the amd game deals through Amazon since they don't advertise it with the cards?

Serephucus

Have a look at Linus' videos on Youtube. When they do benchmarks, they do it the right way; They re-test all the old cards with new drivers, and they overclock all of the cards to something that 90% of people could easily achieve.

marco_polo

tornados2111 wrote: »

I'm running at 1050p.
Does Aria ship to Ireland?
The problem I'm having with figuring out the price effectiveness and value is that I can't look up benchmarks for all of the graphics cards. Because different sites offer there own benchmarks which of course are run in different parts of games so you can't compile all of the data and make a choice based on that...

Tomshardware do a decent monthly price / performance roundup for GPUs that may be of interest, the graph on the final page pretty much reinforces Bloodbaths 7870XT recommendation, beyond the HD7870XT there is a noticeable drop off in the price/performance ratio.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107.html

tornados2111

Not sure the free shipping is actually to ireland though. I'm pretty sure the shipping turns out quite expensive in the end.
Not sure if this is illogical but 7770 is about 100 euro and 2gb 7850 is about 170 euro. So the 7850 is about 70% more expensive and yet benchmarks somtimes it will perform 70% faster and sometimes not even that much.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/777?vs=778

So would it not be more cost effective to do something like crossfire 7770s or just every year upgrade it to 8770, 9770 etc etc...? Maybe I have the completely wrong mindset, not sure

tornados2111

Oh, and when you were saying 7870XT I thought you were misspelling GTX. What exactly does the XT mean? Just a faster version like Ti?

BloodBath

Anything on Amazon that's advertised as free shipping to the uk also covers Ireland afaik.

I find buying mid to lower upper range cards and upgrading more often tends to be better value. A 7870xt or 7950 are good choices from this gen. Even a 660 gtx is priced well at the moment.

If going dual gpu I'd stick with Nvidia though. Amd cards have bad latency issues with Crossfire. 2 x 650ti boost's or 2 x660's are a great option though. They are both low power consumption cards and running them in sli would give you near titan performance for less than half the price.

You're going to need a board that supports sli and a decent power supply for it though. I'd say you would get away with a decent 450w - 500w psu.

tornados2111

a motherboard that supports a good power supply? What do you mean? I have a 550w power supply but it's not one of those gold rated or whatever they are called. Just a normal 550w power supply

BloodBath

I forgot the "and". Edited

MattOD

If you decide to go with Bloodbaths advice and SLI 2 x 660's there's 2 going for sale on adverts.ie , they're Superclocked ones. 1 is 2nd hand for around €150 and 1 is new one for around €180. You might even get them cheaper.
I enquired about them yesterday but my brother is giving me his now instead.

2 x 660 SC would be great for around €330.

gamer_Niall

BloodBath wrote: »

I think you're crazy pumping that much into a card with a horrible price/performance ratio when the rest of your system is a few generations old. You could sell your board and processor for about €120 leaving you with €770 to spend.

With that you could get a 4670k Haswell with a new board, a 120gb samsung 840 ssd, a coolermaster 212 evo cpu cooler and one of the many 680 gtx or 7970's being sold for around €300 atm.

There's even enough there to get a good sli capable board, get a 680gtx and another cheap 1 in a year for sli which will outperform even the top single gpu next gen card.

That would be a full system upgrade for less than the 780gtx and with overclocking on the processor and card you wouldn't be far off the performance gains you would get with a 780 in your current system with parts that will hold their value better and have better upgrade options.

So you think I should ditch the 780 and go for a 680, maybe 2 of them?
Could you link me the stuff I'd need to get with prices? CPU, Mobo, Cooler etc.

I have around 900 euro now to spend, but I was also wanting to buy a new monitor. I was looking at a IIYAMA Prolite g2773hs. Cost like 370 though.

tornados2111

So I've decided to go with the 7870 since it's the best value. 660 is probably worth it if I'd think that I want to upgrade it again in say the next 2 years (because SLI is better) but I think it would last me longer since I'm on 1050p and I don't mind turning settings down for a couple of years after. I'd probably still get a 660 if there was a good deal on it though.
My only question is when I should really buy. Should I wait till the 760 comes out to get a good deal on the 660/9850 to come out and get a good deal on the 7850? Is it really even worth doing something like that or is it better to just wait for the card to come out, wait a month for prices to calm down a bit and then get a low end card for the same price?
So basicly what I'm saying is should I get a 7870 when the 9870 launches or should I wait until say the 9770 which will probably be the same price? I know nobody has the exact numbers or anything but what generally happens from generation to generation?
EDIT: kind of linked to what Niall is saying. Is it possible that instead of getting a 680 and then another 680 later, it would be better to get something like 2 760Tis instantly when it comes out? I hope I'm making sense

MattOD

FPS seem to be better on the GTX 660 SC, see below link.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/evga_geforce_gtx_660_sc_review,11.html

Guys on this forum also seem to think the 660 SC is better.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/384674-33-evga-nvidia-radeon-7870

Price is €199.49 + delivery from below link.
http://www.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=66226&agid=1156

I think Amazon is charging around €206 delivered.

Myself I'd go with the 660 SC, if you're only using 1 monitor and not playing 3D games this would be the one, just checked adverts.ie and that new one is still there. advertised at €190 but looks like he'll let it go for €180, maybe less if you try your luck

Gumbi

The 7870 is more powerful when overclocked.

tornados2111

Yes, was just about to say I think there is a fault in the first link in that they are not overclocked and it's the same with many other benchmarks. I looked at some benchmarks on the linustechtips youtube channel where they benchmark 8 cards all with a reasonable overclock and it looks like pretty much always, the 7870 wins. Although I understand how some people want physX and all that fancy shmancy technology but I'm fine with settings games already offer and really just want a higher fps

MattOD

Check out this link then.

http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/newsletter?productId=55140&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=XFX+Double+D+Radeon+HD+7870+GHz+Edition+(Tahiti+LE)+OC+2GB+GDDR5+Graphics+Card+[FX-787A-CNAC]+++4+FREE+GAMES!&utm_campaign=newsletter290513

BloodBath

gamer_Niall wrote: »

So you think I should ditch the 780 and go for a 680, maybe 2 of them?
Could you link me the stuff I'd need to get with prices? CPU, Mobo, Cooler etc.

I have around 900 euro now to spend, but I was also wanting to buy a new monitor. I was looking at a IIYAMA Prolite g2773hs. Cost like 370 though.

The haswell chips aren't out yet so still waiting on boards and prices from most sites.

It's a good monitor I guess but I'd go 1400p if your going dual 680's and 27". There's a Qnix korean 1440p monitor selling at the moment for around €300 delivered on ebay that will overclock to allow 120hz or near it. Check the Catleap monitor club thread.

So I've decided to go with the 7870 since it's the best value. 660 is probably worth it if I'd think that I want to upgrade it again in say the next 2 years (because SLI is better) but I think it would last me longer since I'm on 1050p and I don't mind turning settings down for a couple of years after. I'd probably still get a 660 if there was a good deal on it though.
My only question is when I should really buy. Should I wait till the 760 comes out to get a good deal on the 660/9850 to come out and get a good deal on the 7850? Is it really even worth doing something like that or is it better to just wait for the card to come out, wait a month for prices to calm down a bit and then get a low end card for the same price?
So basicly what I'm saying is should I get a 7870 when the 9870 launches or should I wait until say the 9770 which will probably be the same price? I know nobody has the exact numbers or anything but what generally happens from generation to generation?
EDIT: kind of linked to what Niall is saying. Is it possible that instead of getting a 680 and then another 680 later, it would be better to get something like 2 760Tis instantly when it comes out? I hope I'm making sense

Go with the 7870xt on Aria then. Delivery to Ireland is only £10. You can't beat that deal with 4 free games.

Myself I'd go with the 660 SC, if you're only using 1 monitor and not playing 3D games this would be the one, just checked adverts.ie and that new one is still there. advertised at €190 but looks like he'll let it go for €180, maybe less if you try your luck

Doesn't look much better than a standard 660 and costs a lot more + has a pretty poor cooler. These one's on Amazon are only €175 each delivered. I'd still only go with them if your budget can't stretch to a 7870xt or you want to sli them.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-NVIDIA-GTX660-PCI-E-Graphics/dp/B0099AOAUI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370025973&sr=8-1&keywords=gtx+660

tornados2111

Bloodbath you've been a huge help. One last thing though, does it matter that much that it's the tahiti LE version or could I just get this? http://www.hardwareversand.de/2048+MB/80808/Special+item%3A+Sapphire+HD+7870+GHz+Edition+OC+Version%2C+2GB+GDDR5+PCI-Express%2C+lite+Retail.article

BloodBath

That's a returned item. That's why it's marked as a special item. It may be missing extras. That would still be €210 delivered. This is only €220 delivered for the better card with 4 games.

http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/XFX+Double+D+Radeon+HD+7870+GHz+Edition+%28Tahiti+LE%29+OC+2GB+GDDR5+Graphics+Card+%5BFX-787A-CNAC%5D+%2B+4+FREE+GAMES%21+?productId=55140

MattOD

[QUOTE=Doesn't look much better than a standard 660 and costs a lot more + has a pretty poor cooler. These one's on Amazon are only €175 each delivered. I'd still only go with them if your budget can't stretch to a 7870xt or you want to sli them.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-NVIDIA-GTX660-PCI-E-Graphics/dp/B0099AOAUI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370025973&sr=8-1&keywords=gtx+660[/QUOTE]

About 7% difference between the 2..

If you change your mind on the 7870 and you can get the SC version for the same price I'd go for it. My brother had his since Nov I think, he loved it, now it's my baby.

Must say though the 7870 with 4 games is great value. Decisions decision

tornados2111

Again, thanks for all of the help. I'll be getting the aira one then. You saved me from getting the wrong parts, thanks

gamer_Niall

@BloodBath How much do you think these new chips and board will cost?

BloodBath

It depends on what kind of board you want. I'd say around €210-220 for a 4670k and €100-€150 for the board depending on whether you want a single gpu board or an sli capable one.

Again, thanks for all of the help. I'll be getting the aira one then. You saved me from getting the wrong parts, thanks

No problem. The clocks are actually pretty low on that as well. It should do near 1200-6500 with some overclocking.

gamer_Niall

Awesome, I think I will wait and get those and the 680! I would want an SLI capable one.

gamer_Niall

2 x Gigabyte 2GB nVidia 680 GTX 650 euro worth it second hand?

BloodBath

It depends but the price is decent. What cooler is on the cards? Have you got a link?

Don't rule out 670's either. They aren't far off 680 performance and you will get an even better prices

gamer_Niall

BloodBath wrote: »

It depends but the price is decent. What cooler is on the cards? Have you got a link?

Don't rule out 670's either. They aren't far off 680 performance and you will get an even better prices

Worth it?

http://www.adverts.ie/other-computers/2-x-gigabyte-2gb-nvidia-680-gtx/3185076

tuxy

tornados2111 wrote: »

Where can I get a gtx 680 for 300 euro?

Nowhere if buying new. Maybe someone might sell it for 300 second hand.

Get a 770 it has the same core and faster memory, it's also slightly cheaper selling for about €400.

BloodBath

Not for that price with that cooler. You could probably get this for €300.

http://www.adverts.ie/graphics-cards/gtx-670-asus-dcuii-2gb/3180386

gamer_Niall

I put the wrong link in sry have a look again.

BloodBath

Not bad at 325 each I guess.

Not a fan of those coolers though but it may be beneficial in sli to have all the exhaust air going out the back.

gamer_Niall

My mobo has 2 gpu ports so I'm guessing it's SLI capable? I might go ahead and get these 2 GPU's.

tuxy

gamer_Niall wrote: »

My mobo has 2 gpu ports so I'm guessing it's SLI capable? I might go ahead and get these 2 GPU's.

Whats the make and model is your motherboard? Nvidia cards are fussy about PCI-E speeds in SLI