Felt F4 -v- AR4

Cee-Jay-Cee

I've finally narrowed my choice if carbon bikes down to the F4 or AR4 but I can't decide which. On looks the AR has it, on weight the F4 has it by less than a pound so basically nothing between the two on paper or money terms. Anyone ridden both and able to offer advice? The bike will be used for weekend and evening spins anything from 30-100kms. Have no real aspiration to take up racing so I'm figuring the F suits my needs more but the AR looks amazing in the flesh. Help...

DirkVoodoo

Do you want an aero frame? Do you need an aero frame?

Yeah, it looks pretty amazing, but it's a racing machine and if you want something that will race but also complete sportives in comfort, go for the F. Sure, plenty of people will probably say their AR is comfy enough, but I bet they are the same people who would say a Range Rover is perfectly capable around town.

pot p

I have an AR and i love it, can be a little uncomfortable at times but its a rocket and a real eye catcher. Can't really comment on the f series but u will not be sorry if you decide on the AR

GarethM

What size AR4 would you be looking for? Have one for sale that's a size 51 - might help make your choice easier if the price is right

Cee-Jay-Cee

Sorry 51 is too small. I'm 6ft and so 56 is the size I'm going for. I was talking to a lad this evening who is after changing his AR4 to an F4 and he was saying the F is much more comfortable but that the AR felt faster although the difference was probably negligible. I'm swaying towards the F4 at this stage.[HTML][/HTML]

brayblue24

I have to agree with the above. I had an AR4-a real eye catcher is right but very stiff. If it's sportives and non-competitive tipping about you're looking at then maybe the F would be a better bet.

DirkVoodoo

brayblue24 wrote: »

I have to agree with the above. I had an AR4-a real eye catcher is right but very stiff. If it's sportives and non-competitive tipping about you're looking at then maybe the F would be a better bet.

Don't forget the F series is more than capable of competition and has carried Garmin and Argos-Shimano riders to victory. Don't be fooled into thinking you are trading performance for some country tourer. At the end of the day, if you aren't able to keep up on a spin, I wouldn't be blaming your choice of bike:

brayblue24

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Don't forget the F series is more than capable of competition and has carried Garmin and Argos-Shimano riders to victory. Don't be fooled into thinking you are trading performance for some country tourer. At the end of the day, if you aren't able to keep up on a spin, I wouldn't be blaming your choice of bike:

Very fair point. I've never even sat on the F series (maybe should have mentioned that!) but only gave an opinion of the AR as I saw it-my current steed is a Specialized Roubaix so that says everything about where I'm at I suppose

Darkglasses

I own a Felt F5 if that's any use - 105 components and a different carbon weave. I absolutely love the geometry. It's noticeably more sporty than my Defy, and an awful lot stiffer, but I absolutely adore riding it. Can stay in the drops for extended periods without any problems (haven't changed the stem from the original or anything)

The AR4 is definitely prettier, but the F4 isn't exactly an uggo either.

Can't go wrong either way, Felt have a great set of bikes to choose from lately. If I was only racing it, or looking at it, I'd get the AR4. If I was training/sportive/touring/etc., I'd go F4.

Gallant_JJ

Got myself the F4 only last week. Find it very responsive. If your up around the Cavan/Monaghan area OP fee free to take it for a test spin. It might help.

Brian?

What's the price difference for the 2?

SomeFool

Darkglasses wrote: »

I own a Felt F5 if that's any use - 105 components and a different carbon weave. I absolutely love the geometry. It's noticeably more sporty than my Defy, and an awful lot stiffer, but I absolutely adore riding it. Can stay in the drops for extended periods without any problems (haven't changed the stem from the original or anything)

The AR4 is definitely prettier, but the F4 isn't exactly an uggo either.

Can't go wrong either way, Felt have a great set of bikes to choose from lately. If I was only racing it, or looking at it, I'd get the AR4. If I was training/sportive/touring/etc., I'd go F4.

+1 I have an F5, a buddy has an F4 - both great bikes to ride

Cee-Jay-Cee

Brian? wrote: »

What's the price difference for the 2?

€100-200 depending on where your shopping. the F4 I was looking at is last years bike in the sky blue colours, I don't like the look of the 2013 colours at all.

Darkglasses

CJC999 wrote: »

€100-200 depending on where your shopping. the F4 I was looking at is last years bike in the sky blue colours, I don't like the look of the 2013 colours at all.

I agree, a lot less aggressive and sporty paint job this year.

Brian?

CJC999 wrote: »

€100-200 depending on where your shopping. the F4 I was looking at is last years bike in the sky blue colours, I don't like the look of the 2013 colours at all.

Is that with the same groupset, wheels etc. it's important to look at the finer details.

BryanL

Have ridden both, you can't go wrong. F series is nicer for kicking over short climbs and sprinting. AR is nice for high speed cruising.
B

Amprodude

I have the AR4 2012 bike and i find it very responsive and fast on the straights.

_Skitso_

Hey I'm in the exact same situation, torn between the F4 and AR4, Leaning toward the AR4 as LBS can get it for me at 250 more than the best I can get the F4 at. But can't choose between them at all. Thanks for starting this thread, been a great help.
Skit

Stokolan

I went with the AR4 as my choice. It looks sexy. But if I was to buy again would probably get the F serie. Or a cervelo.

_Skitso_

Stokolan wrote: »

I went with the AR4 as my choice. It looks sexy. But if I was to buy again would probably get the F serie. Or a cervelo.

Why do you say that?? Where do you feel the F beats the AR??

Amprodude

_Skitso_ wrote: »

Why do you say that?? Where do you feel the F beats the AR??

I was looking at both when purchasing. I dont think there is much between them IMO. AR4 looks that small bit sexier.

Brian?

Just to confuse the issue more, this is about the same price as an AR4.

http://jedi-sports.de/Bikes-Custom-Made/Road/Cervelo-S5-TEAM-Shimano-Ultegra-C-2012::3676.html

_Skitso_

Amprodude wrote: »

I was looking at both when purchasing. I dont think there is much between them IMO. AR4 looks that small bit sexier.

I think youve made a good point in that there isnt a huge difference between the two! Did you go with the AR? How do you find it if so.

_Skitso_

Brian? wrote: »

Just to confuse the issue more, this is about the same price as an AR4.

http://jedi-sports.de/Bikes-Custom-Made/Road/Cervelo-S5-TEAM-Shimano-Ultegra-C-2012::3676.html

Can buy the AR4 almost a grand cheaper than that! Did take a stroll around that website though and it has some tempting offers! Not easy this buying a bike lark!

Cee-Jay-Cee

Brian? wrote: »

Is that with the same groupset, wheels etc. it's important to look at the finer details.

both have ultegra derailleurs but the F4 has an FSA 53/36 crank compared to the ultegra 50/34 on the AR4.. Wheels are the same on both bikes

Amprodude

_Skitso_ wrote: »

I think youve made a good point in that there isnt a huge difference between the two! Did you go with the AR? How do you find it if so.

Yeah I bought the AR4. In my 115km of experience with it so far, I find that when you give it socks it goes and good acceleration in it. I find it very smooth on the road especially over long distances.

Cee-Jay-Cee

CJC999 wrote: »

both have ultegra derailleurs but the F4 has an FSA 53/36 crank compared to the ultegra 50/34 on the AR4.. Wheels are the same on both bikes

That should have been 52/36

Can anyone comment on the comfort of the F4 on your average irish country road?

Stokolan

_Skitso_ wrote: »

Why do you say that?? Where do you feel the F beats the AR??

I just find the AR a bit too hard to handle some days.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Stokolan wrote: »

I just find the AR a bit too hard to handle some days.

Which is why i'm leaning towards the F4. I've been reading endless reviews on it and one thing that is mentioned in them all is the stifness of the F4 which i was already aware of although i think it may be stiffer than a lot of other carbon bikes due to the frame thickness and geometery. A friend of mine has one and i hope to get a good spin on his some time soon so will know for sure if its what i want. My alu bike is a ridley compact and fairly stiff compared to many other alu framed bikes ive ridden...I'm just hoping the F4 isnt overly stiff and uncomfortable!

Cee-Jay-Cee

Just to update this, I had good long spin (15km) on a mates F4 which luckily was a size 56 and he's more or less the same height as me so the bike was a good enough fit.

I absolutely loved it, super smooth and no stiffer than my own bike which I was surprised at. I was impressed with the speed of it, very fast and much easier to get up to speed and maintain than my own bike which I'm putting down to the lighter wheels/tyres and 1.5kg frame weight difference.

One thing that has left me disappointed is the ultegra groupset. My bike has 9spd Tiagra and I can't fault it. The ultegra (at least on my mates bike) I found to be very similar to Tiagra, I was expecting much smoother less clunky gear changes and they weren't. I couldn't see or feel any difference between it and Tiagra. Now maybe that's down to me keeping mine clean, well oiled and adjusted and maybe de doesn't but his bike is only a year old and he's done less than 1k on it so far.

Anyway, I think I will most definitely be going for the f4.

Brian?

CJC999 wrote: »

One thing that has left me disappointed is the ultegra groupset. My bike has 9spd Tiagra and I can't fault it. The ultegra (at least on my mates bike) I found to be very similar to Tiagra, I was expecting much smoother less clunky gear changes and they weren't. I couldn't see or feel any difference between it and Tiagra. Now maybe that's down to me keeping mine clean, well oiled and adjusted and maybe de doesn't but his bike is only a year old and he's done less than 1k on it so far.

Anyway, I think I will most definitely be going for the f4.

Sounds like your mate needs to clean and adjust his drive train. I have an alu bike with Tiagra and a carbon one with Ultegra. Ultegra is most certainly better.

Amprodude

Brian? wrote: »

Sounds like your mate needs to clean and adjust his drive train. I have an alu bike with Tiagra and a carbon one with Ultegra. Ultegra is most certainly better.

Well i know im coming from a different perspective but I definately notice the difference coming from 2300 groupset from my alu bike to ultegra on my AR4.


I clean my chain after every ride but I don't remove cassette to clean. Should I do so? I didnt think it looked that bad from close inspection. I do have a cassette remover tool.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Brian? wrote: »

Sounds like your mate needs to clean and adjust his drive train. I have an alu bike with Tiagra and a carbon one with Ultegra. Ultegra is most certainly better.

Your probably right there although he's anal about cleaning the frame/wheels he possibly doesn't pay as much attention to drive train as he should.

tamaskan

CJC999 wrote: »

Just to update this, I had good long spin (15km) on a mates F4 which luckily was a size 56 and he's more or less the same height as me so the bike was a good enough fit.

I absolutely loved it, super smooth and no stiffer than my own bike which I was surprised at. I was impressed with the speed of it, very fast and much easier to get up to speed and maintain than my own bike which I'm putting down to the lighter wheels/tyres and 1.5kg frame weight difference.

One thing that has left me disappointed is the ultegra groupset. My bike has 9spd Tiagra and I can't fault it. The ultegra (at least on my mates bike) I found to be very similar to Tiagra, I was expecting much smoother less clunky gear changes and they weren't. I couldn't see or feel any difference between it and Tiagra. Now maybe that's down to me keeping mine clean, well oiled and adjusted and maybe de doesn't but his bike is only a year old and he's done less than 1k on it so far.

Anyway, I think I will most definitely be going for the f4.

Hey,

Took a ride on an AR4 between Kenmare and Killarney (20 miles). Took 15 minutes off my previous best time, which admittedly was on my 1 year old Alu KTM. I'm still stunned at the speed of it.

Amprodude

tamaskan wrote: »

Hey,

Took a ride on an AR4 between Kenmare and Killarney (20 miles). Took 15 minutes off my previous best time, which admittedly was on my 1 year old Alu KTM. I'm still stunned at the speed of it.

Good acceleration on that AR4 once you have the engine to sustain it. I put ksyrium sls wheels on my one and i find it it very fast overall. Serious bike.

_Skitso_

I went with the AR4 in the end and love it, goes lovely and fits me well. I'm no expert and I didnt get a chance to ride an F4 before I bought but if you go with the AR you won't be sorry. I try to avoid standing out of saddle and I think the AR suits that although I dont find it hard at all to get out of saddle either and still have great control. I'm even getting comfortable standing while in the drops which was a no no on my old bike.
Skit

tamaskan

_Skitso_ wrote: »

I went with the AR4 in the end and love it, goes lovely and fits me well. I'm no expert and I didnt get a chance to ride an F4 before I bought but if you go with the AR you won't be sorry. I try to avoid standing out of saddle and I think the AR suits that although I dont find it hard at all to get out of saddle either and still have great control. I'm even getting comfortable standing while in the drops which was a no no on my old bike.
Skit

As much as I loved the AR4, I think I'm gonna plump for the F4. I just reckon it will suit the hills around here better, going up anyway. Though to be fair downhill the AR is probably quicker. On my ride to Killarney, the first 9km to Molls Gap is uphill maybe 4 or 5% and the AR was only just over a minute quicker than on my Alu KTM. The next 20km is mostly downhill or flat and I was 14 minutes faster than the KTM. A lot of that is down to the 52/36 chainring as opposed to the compact on my bike. The F4 is 52/36 as well so I'll probably go for the F4 instead. Just reckon it will be the better climber for a 90kg rider. What do u think?

_Skitso_

tamaskan wrote: »

As much as I loved the AR4, I think I'm gonna plump for the F4. I just reckon it will suit the hills around here better, going up anyway. Though to be fair downhill the AR is probably quicker. On my ride to Killarney, the first 9km to Molls Gap is uphill maybe 4 or 5% and the AR was only just over a minute quicker than on my Alu KTM. The next 20km is mostly downhill or flat and I was 14 minutes faster than the KTM. A lot of that is down to the 52/36 chainring as opposed to the compact on my bike. The F4 is 52/36 as well so I'll probably go for the F4 instead. Just reckon it will be the better climber for a 90kg rider. What do u think?

Right or wrong I would consider myself an ok climber so I guess I felt I'd manage the AR on the climbs and then benefit on the flat, well that was my thinking anyway! I live in a relative flat area too which helps a lot. At the end of the day I reckoned the differences were minimal and my LBS had a good price on the AR so that helped. Not much help sorry!

Cee-Jay-Cee

To update this, I ended up buying an F5 a few weeks ago. Its the 2011 spec bike but brand new and I absolutely love the colors of it compared to the 2012 and 2013 bike.

I've been out for several 30-40km spins on it and I love it. Its so much more comfortable than my aluminium Ridley and quicker by 2-3kmph. The CF frame soaks up the bumps and roughness on poor roads remarkably well.

Its got a 105 groupset with FSA gossamer crankset. I changed the 12/25 cassette to an Ultegra 11/28 as the 25 just wasn't low enough for some of the hills around me. I also changed the CXP22 wheels for my own Fulcrum Quattros.

Overall I'm delighted with it. I was originally planning on getting the F4 but bought this privately for considerably less what an F4 would have cost me. The 105 is a good upgrade on Tiagra and I like the cleaner look of the 105 hoods compared to the tiagra hoods with the cables exiting from the sides.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Darkglasses wrote: »

I own a Felt F5 if that's any use - 105 components and a different carbon weave.

The frames on the F5 and F4 are identical, same weave/carbon grade, same geometry. There are no differences which is why i plumped for the F5 too, I couldnt justify the €1300 extra it would have cost me to buy an F4 purely for an ultegra groupset.