English poetry - question

ladymacbeth · 27-05-2013 4:00pm #1

I've studied Plath, Rich and Mahon. I missed quite a lot of school and they also studied Kinsella and Bishop.
I'm just wondering if I'm safe enough with the three poets I've done considering one of three women and an Irish poet always come up. Thanks

ladymacbeth · 27-05-2013 5:16pm

Student007 wrote: »

Better safe than sorry. It might be helpful to at least just look over the other poets just as a backup. This sample essay on Elizabeth Bishop's poetry might help: http://studynotes.ie/leaving-cert/english/vivid-imagery-in-elizabeth-bishops-poetry-essay/

Yeah I know it would be safer but poetry is so hard for me. I love my 3 poets. The other two seem horrible

I might have a look at Kinsella, because he's Irish. I would hate to rely on Mahon as the Irish poet and then be stuck with Kinsella on the day

Student007 · 28-05-2013 10:35am

I got told that I need to study a minimum of 5 poets and 4 poems from each poet

Leaving Cert Student · 28-05-2013 10:37am

Student007 wrote: »

Better safe than sorry. It might be helpful to at least just look over the other poets just as a backup. This sample essay on Elizabeth Bishop's poetry might help: http://studynotes.ie/leaving-cert/english/vivid-imagery-in-elizabeth-bishops-poetry-essay/

This essay is hardly an a1 standard? Surely this isn't long enough or have I been writing far too much?

Student007 · 28-05-2013 10:40am

Leaving Cert Student wrote: »

This essay is hardly an a1 standard? Surely this isn't long enough or have I been writing far too much?

Don't know about the standard, but I think it is long enough to cover almost 3 a4 pages (depends on your handwriting I suppose)...

Leaving Cert Student · 28-05-2013 10:55am

Student007 wrote: »

Don't know about the standard, but I think it is long enough to cover almost 3 a4 pages (depends on your handwriting I suppose)...

I definitely write twice that, I must have small hand writing

MusicChick94Xx · 28-05-2013 11:31am

I doubt that answer would be long enough tbh, my English teacher always told me to write about 1000 words per essay, he corrects the english papers, that essay doesn't even have 500 words... maybe I've been writing too much?

Student007 · 28-05-2013 11:49am

MusicChick94Xx wrote: »

I doubt that answer would be long enough tbh, my English teacher always told me to write about 1000 words per essay, he corrects the english papers, that essay doesn't even have 500 words... maybe I've been writing too much?

I doubt if the examiner will be counting the number of words, but will definitely be looking at how many pages you have, so just have to make it look long enough

Leaving Cert Student · 28-05-2013 12:34pm

generally 4 pages yeah?

robman60 · 28-05-2013 1:03pm

That sample didn't seem of high standard at all tbh. I generally try 1/2 page intro and 1x4 pages for each poem and then 1/3 page conclusion at the end (in 5th year currently).

If I were you, I'd definitely have a look at another two to prevent a disaster on the day. Just imagine sitting in the exam and not even knowing the basics of the poets in front of you. Have your preferences, but you need some back up, too.

MusicChick94Xx · 28-05-2013 1:33pm

Student007 wrote: »

I doubt if the examiner will be counting the number of words, but will definitely be looking at how many pages you have, so just have to make it look long enough

I know that haha

around that many words gets you between 4 and 5 pages, depending on how big/small your handwriting it

robman60 · 28-05-2013 3:03pm

Student007 wrote: »

I doubt if the examiner will be counting the number of words, but will definitely be looking at how many pages you have, so just have to make it look long enough

I think that's flawed advice. The examiner is going to assess the content. Quality is probably the most important part, but you need more content than that sample answer above. It seemed to lack any detail to me.

orlalc94 · 28-05-2013 7:25pm

I'm doing Mahon, Plath, Hopkins and Bishop? Does anyone have any thoughts on if I'm fairly well covered or not??

Leaving Cert Student · 28-05-2013 7:34pm

orlalc94 wrote: »

I'm doing Mahon, Plath, Hopkins and Bishop? Does anyone have any thoughts on if I'm fairly well covered or not??

Im flipping four coins. Does anyone have any thoughts on if i'm fairly well covered to get at least a head or what?

Student007 · 28-05-2013 8:24pm

orlalc94 wrote: »

I'm doing Mahon, Plath, Hopkins and Bishop? Does anyone have any thoughts on if I'm fairly well covered or not??

You need to do at least 5 to make sure that at least one of the poets that you have studied comes up. There are 8 poets on the course and on the leaving cert they can ask any 4.

Leaving Cert Student · 28-05-2013 9:35pm

Student007 wrote: »

You need to do at least 5 to make sure that at least one of the poets that you have studied comes up. There are 8 poets on the course and on the leaving cert they can ask any 4.

really?

HugsiePie · 28-05-2013 11:34pm

Anyone know where I can find sample essays on Willy Shakes and Kinsella?

Leaving Cert Student · 29-05-2013 3:33pm

HugsiePie wrote: »

Anyone know where I can find sample essays on Willy Shakes and Kinsella?

A sample essay on willy shakes? What's to get? you just shake it off after going to the toilet...

Student007 · 29-05-2013 7:05pm

orlalc94 wrote: »

I'm doing Mahon, Plath, Hopkins and Bishop? Does anyone have any thoughts on if I'm fairly well covered or not??

You should do one more just as a backup just in case. There are 8 poets in the course and any four can come up. What if the other four that you did not study come up? You should have studied at least 5 poets. There is still time; just have a quick run through some other easy poet just as a backup...

Fennjenn · 31-05-2013 9:04am

Is there a guarantee of an Irish poet coming up? There has been one every year since the leaving cert started! I don't see why they'd change it now! I except that there would be uproar if an Irish poet didn't appear on an Irish state examination.

Leaving Cert Student · 31-05-2013 12:40pm

how many of the 8 are irish?

Fennjenn · 31-05-2013 2:23pm

Leaving Cert Student wrote: »

how many of the 8 are irish?

Mahon and Kinsella are the only two Irish BUT Hopkins came to live in Ireland for a while but I highly doubt they would regard him as Irish! I'm only learning Mahon and Kinsella in full and then Hopkins in smaller detail!

ahmdoda · 31-05-2013 2:24pm

i dont see my people expecting wordsworth he better comes up hes the only poet i done

matTNT · 31-05-2013 3:03pm

ahmdoda wrote: »

i dont see my people expecting wordsworth he better comes up hes the only poet i done

What?

aimzLc2 · 31-05-2013 3:15pm

ahmdoda wrote: »

i dont see my people expecting wordsworth he better comes up hes the only poet i done

I honestly don't understand year after year how people continue to think they can beat the odds, 8 poets, 4 come up ,you have to do 5 to be definite you have 1!!!! I am going to be harsh here your odds of getting your one poet are so low!

Leaving Cert Student · 31-05-2013 4:37pm

aimzLc2 wrote: »

I honestly don't understand year after year how people continue to think they can beat the odds, 8 poets, 4 come up ,you have to do 5 to be definite you have 1!!!! I am going to be harsh here your odds of getting your one poet are so low!

No, the odds of getting your one poet are 50/50. For someone lamenting our inability to comprehend the odds, you really haven't grasped them all that well yourself!

Monsieur Folie · 31-05-2013 4:51pm

Leaving Cert Student wrote: »

No, the odds of getting your one poet are 50/50. For someone lamenting our inability to comprehend the odds, you really haven't grasped them all that well yourself!

Assuming they stick to the "1 woman, 1 irish" tradition this year, and that the other two can be any of the remaining 6 poets after filling those two, then Wordsworth has a 2 in 6 chance, i.e, a 33.33% chance of coming up. Where are you getting 50% from? The odds depend on the poet, it's not as simple as "4 slots, 8 poets, therefore 50-50". That is unless they were to abolish all of the established norms all at once and make it totally random which I don't see happening.

Also, what the other poster said is entirely true so I don't see why you jumped down their neck in the first place. If you were to eliminate all assumptions and guesswork, the only way you can 100% of a poet is to know 5.

Leaving Cert Student · 31-05-2013 5:09pm

Monsieur Folie wrote: »

Assuming they stick to the "1 woman, 1 irish" tradition this year, and that the other two can be any of the remaining 6 poets after filling those two, then Wordsworth has a 2 in 6 chance, i.e, a 33.33% chance of coming up. Where are you getting 50% from? The odds depend on the poet, it's not as simple as "4 slots, 8 poets, therefore 50-50". That is unless they were to abolish all of the established norms all at once and make it totally random which I don't see happening.

Also, what the other poster said is entirely true so I don't see why you jumped down their neck in the first place. If you were to eliminate all assumptions and guesswork, the only way you can 100% of a poet is to know 5.

To address your first paragraph: These unspoken norms you speak of have failed in the past. The idea that a randomly selected paper is selected on any grounds other than random is baffling and the SEC have confirmed this - would they really lie?

Now your latter point: Yes, 5 poets is your only guarantee (somewhat contradicting your norms allusion but anyway). I was merely stating that the odds of one poet coming up are supposedly 50 percent. It is ill-advised to go around telling people otherwise, in my view.

I do not wish to get into an argument about this and I understand my original comment may have been interpreted harshly. I assure you it was not intended as such. I hope you forgive me.

aimzLc2 · 31-05-2013 5:24pm

Leaving Cert Student wrote: »

No, the odds of getting your one poet are 50/50. For someone lamenting our inability to comprehend the odds, you really haven't grasped them all that well yourself!

50/50?? that is impossible if you are studying one poet as the last poster said.I honestly don't understand what you are talking about.
You are setting yourself up to be that person who goes in with less than 5 poets and comes out crying , i have warned you...

ahmdoda · 31-05-2013 5:27pm

aimzLc2 wrote: »

50/50?? that is impossible if you are studying one poet as the last poster said.I honestly don't understand what you are talking about.
You are setting yourself up to be that person who goes in with less than 5 poets and comes out crying , i have warned you...

haha dont worry i wont be crying even if he didnt come up all im looking for is a pass in english

Leaving Cert Student · 31-05-2013 5:31pm

aimzLc2 wrote: »

50/50?? that is impossible if you are studying one poet as the last poster said.I honestly don't understand what you are talking about.
You are setting yourself up to be that person who goes in with less than 5 poets and comes out crying , i have warned you...

Oh I apologize, I thought we still lived in the real world of basic probability principles where studying one poet with a 4 in 8 chance of coming up meant you had a 50 50 chance of getting your poet on the day. But no we appear to be in some kind of extra dimension where fairies decide who comes up based on trends and established norms, and all people seem to do is argue.

And I never said I was only studying one poet, and certainly would not cry if Lord Pythagoras were to punish such an act of petulance by employing the realities of probability.

"Bad luck is just probability taken personally"

Vito Corleone · 31-05-2013 5:33pm

If you think the poets are selected completely at random then you are deluding yourself.

Monsieur Folie · 31-05-2013 5:50pm

Would you ever stop going around with that passive-aggressive sarcastic tone and winding people up? People are on edge enough as it is, they don't need people trying to wind them up or make them look silly. You can disagree with someone and be polite at the same time, it is possible. Not only would you then not be winding people up, but they'd also be more likely to respect your opinion and hear you out, when it's not coated in all that sarcasm and disdain.

I was looking at the statistical implications of assuming that the two established norms of English poetry over the last number of years were to continue. I think I made that clear in my post. They might not, especially given the media hype around "predictability", but they probably will. I then clarified at the end, saying that if you were to take the assumptions aside and look at it as an unbiased 4 in 8 choice, that you'd need 5 to guarantee one poet on the paper. Nothing I said was untrue. I'd rather not get into a maths debate anyway, especially not on a thread for English poetry!

Leaving Cert Student · 31-05-2013 6:00pm

ok we all have our own calculations, somehow, so I won't comment further on the matter. Personally I am studying Mahon, Hopkins and Bishop and I would like very much for their presence come thursday, though I realize that this is not a guarantee

Leaving Cert Student 2013 · 02-06-2013 2:06pm

Mahon will surely come up wont he cause kinsella came up last year and an irish poet comes up every year!

Fennjenn · 02-06-2013 2:08pm

Leaving Cert Student 2013 wrote: »

Mahon will surely come up wont he cause kinsella came up last year and an irish poet comes up every year!

Yeah I really hope so! I'm just a bit afraid that they might say Hopkins is an Irish poet and use him! But I really doubt they will

Leaving Cert Student 2013 · 02-06-2013 2:22pm

Fennjenn wrote: »

Yeah I really hope so! I'm just a bit afraid that they might say Hopkins is an Irish poet and use him! But I really doubt they will

but sure hes not irish hes english! Mahon has to come up! hes my favourite poet anyway and i know 6 poems on him very well and lots of quotes! im sorted! ha cultural context is easy on another note and and kingship which is a c*nt is also gona come up! everyone stop worrying and learn them! :P haha o this might cause a bit of uproar...

Fennjenn · 02-06-2013 2:24pm

Leaving Cert Student 2013 wrote: »

but sure hes not irish hes english! Mahon has to come up! hes my favourite poet anyway and i know 6 poems on him very well and lots of quotes! im sorted! ha cultural context is easy on another note and and kingship which is a c*nt is also gona come up! everyone stop worrying and learn them! :P haha o this might cause a bit of uproar...

Yeah it's just he came to live in Ireland for a while but no I'm sure it'll definitely be either Mahon or Kinsella!... Hopefully Mahon!

Leaving Cert Student 2013 · 02-06-2013 2:27pm

but kinsella is a wanker haha

Leaving Cert Student · 02-06-2013 2:48pm

Leaving Cert Student 2013 wrote: »

but kinsella is a wanker haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrDiZs0UIbc

change your name, mate.

A Funky Unicorn · 02-06-2013 5:01pm

In my mocks, Plath, Mahon and Bishop came up so that's all I'm studying

I like Rich aswell so I can glance over her the night before.
My other poet was Kinsella who is a great poet but I guess I just don't understand him so I'm sticking with the other 3/4

English poetry - question

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