2:2 Worthless for research masters?

sockcastigator

Hi all, have been lurking for a long time and am in need of serious advice so thought it's time to post.

To cut it short, i'm soon to graduate from UCD but think that i most likely got a 2:2. I would like to go on to do a masters so i'm taking a year out to get some money together, review my options and make a plan.

I would love to do lecturing and have read in other threads that it's better to do a research masters to break into the field. I know i'll have a 2:2 and many of the masters list a 2:1 as a basic requirement, but i've read on other threads that if i can develop relevant experience and a persuasive application letter i'd have a decent chance of being accepted to a masters.

Where can i view research master opportunities, is there a website for ireland? I looked here on UCD but didn't find much info
http://www.ucd.ie/graduatestudies/coursefinder/researchprogrammes/

I'm confident i have the intelligence to write a convincing letter/do well in an interview and have gotten a few A's in core modules and assignments although results have been inconsistent. I'm also willing to do a diploma etc. before hand if it helps my cause.

My question; is research masters acceptance allocated to the highest GPA students or is there hope for someone of my situation being accepted? Also, are there any options for research masters abroad?

Apologies for the essay and all criticism and advice is welcomed. Thanks

sockcastigator

Also, when i look at the research profiles of the sociology lecturers of UCD i see they have many projects under there belt. How do they find these projects and where? I found this sociology Mlitt course in UCD;

http://www.ucd.ie/sociology/graduateprogrammes/phdprogrammes/phdmlittinformation/structuredmlitt/

How does this course work, it seems to be very vague with regards to the actual reserach options - does the student recommended the field of research or do you apply and then accept whatever is offered to you?

Very confused and overwhelmed here, appreciate every bit of advice and info.

endacl

It could depend on the popularity of the Masters course you choose. Universities are becoming more and more involved in the business of selling courses. If they feel you are suitable and capable of completing all of the coursework, and demand isn't great enough to fill all the places you won't be turned away if you turn up with a chequebook and a smile. I'm just wrapping up my third postgrad (NUIM, UCD, Trinity). In all honesty, I wasn't at all confident of being accepted onto either of the second two, but I was offered places on all.

Best of luck.

sockcastigator

I found some info here; http://www.ucd.ie/sociology/graduateprogrammes/phdprogrammes/phdmlittinformation/applicationproceduresguidelinesforgraduateresearchstudents/

"Applicants must normally have a first or upper second-class honours primary degree or masters degree, or the equivalent. In circumstances where examination results are not known at the time of application, the School of Sociology may make a Conditional Offer subject to receiving a complete and final transcript confirming that the applicant has met the above requirements."

So i guess, that yes a 2:2 is useless for a research masters. Back to the drawing board

endacl

sockcastigator wrote: »

I found some info here; http://www.ucd.ie/sociology/graduateprogrammes/phdprogrammes/phdmlittinformation/applicationproceduresguidelinesforgraduateresearchstudents/

"Applicants must normally have a first or upper second-class honours primary degree or masters degree, or the equivalent. In circumstances where examination results are not known at the time of application, the School of Sociology may make a Conditional Offer subject to receiving a complete and final transcript confirming that the applicant has met the above requirements."

So i guess, that yes a 2:2 is useless for a research masters. Back to the drawing board

Are you a Mexican, or a Mexican't?!?

Important word in bold.

Get down there and talk to the course director, with a good idea of why you want to do it. Have a chat and ask them how you can become a suitable candidate.

There's always a way in. UCD need your cash. Positive mental attitude.

Ruski

In some cases, they do take in 2:2. As long as you show that you will do work and have a genuine interest, I don't see any reason for them to overlook your degree classification.

sockcastigator

Thanks for the replies. Ok, so i'm reviewing the research papers of the phd and mlitt students to get an idea of the caliber of research that would have to be done. No distinction is made between the phd's and mlitts though but lets assume it's professional standard.

One other crucial question; do you offer to do research that has a predetermined theme set by lecturers/supervisors/independent organisation? OR do you design your own research? Or maybe there's it's an option between the two?

It's just that i can't find any listed research Mlitts on UCD website, and if I have to design it i want to have something impressive prepared before talking to the research director so as to not come across as a lemon

endacl

sockcastigator wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Ok, so i'm reviewing the research papers of the phd and mlitt students to get an idea of the caliber of research that would have to be done. No distinction is made between the phd's and mlitts though but lets assume it's professional standard.

One other crucial question; do you offer to do research that has a predetermined theme set by lecturers/supervisors/independent organisation? OR do you design your own research? Or maybe there's it's an option between the two?

It's just that i can't find any listed research Mlitts on UCD website, and if I have to design it i want to have something impressive prepared before talking to the research director so as to not come across as a lemon

This is something to ask them, I'd say. What you're doing is making an informal enquirey before applying. I'd be impressed. Not the hallmark of a lemon. Or any other citrus fruit. Research directors were all in your position at some point.

doly

What staff would like to see when you are making first enquiries for an MLitt is enthusiasm and an idea of what you might be interested in researching. They do not expect a carefully thought out research proposal. Sometimes the research topic is suggested by someone on the faculty if they have something that needs to be done but it is more often something that the student has suggested.
You say you want to lecture so I am wondering why you don't do a taught masters for a year and then head into a PhD, which is what you will need for lecturing. On the other hand, if you apply yourself to the MLitt and make enough progress in the first year, you could be transferred directly to PhD. A number of MLitts were originally PhDs who couldn't or didn't finish but had enough done to write up an MLitt thesis.
I don't think the 2:2 is of huge concern, partly because UCD is not in a position to refuse money from anyone at the moment and also there may be details in your transcript that you can point to and say I can do this.
I'm in the middle of MLitt now but not Sociology.

Columbia

An MLitt takes 2 years to do and personally I haven't found any advantage over having an MA. Ask yourself, if nothing comes from the MLitt, will I regret spending the extra year on it? I enjoyed writing my thesis and I'm very proud of the final product, so I don't regret the time I spent on it. However others might feel it was a year wasted.

To answer your other question, all you really need for an MLitt is a topic and a lecturer who is interested in it & you, but higher grades would make all of that much easier. Develop an idea and contact the most relevant lecturer(s) for advice. Lecturers may shy away from students who achieved a 2.2, as an MLitt is a step up from even first class undergrad work. Unfinished/failed theses reflect poorly on them, and they may well be thinking of this, particularly if they have a couple of incompletes already. Younger lecturers will be more likely to take on an MLitt and devote more time and effort to it.

If you performed well in certain modules and your proposed topic is related to them, the lecturer will be more likely to support you.

sockcastigator

Thank you both for the great info. I was only bringing up the subject of a research masters as i misunderstood the information here;http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054945766

There was much mention of the need for research to gain a lecturing position, but rereading it i see it was in the context of not having a phd.

I will take your advice and try to get into a relevant taught masters, bust my ass in it and progress onto a phd. Thanks!

ironclaw

Just to add two things,

You'd want to be borderline 2.1 to be considered. You would be in a far better position than an 'average' 2.2.

Secondly, lecture positions are not like a normal job. You arn't automatically given one on merit, years or degree's. Anyone given one will be the leading light in their area of research and probably that way since undergrad. So I would urge caution if your considering this as a means to a job. Remembering its possible to be overqualified for 'real world' jobs or have a pHd that is honestly of no use in the real world.

sockcastigator

I only say i'm sure i have a 2:2 as i had calculated what i needed for the 2:1, but one of the exams didn't go as well as planned. So i probably got a 3.05 or so. Anyway thanks for the replies, reviewing lecturer portfolios it does seem there selection is based on prestige so i'll keep that in mind.

Although a lecturing post may be very difficult to achieve this is what i'll strive for, if it doesn't happen i'll still be able get a job i'm interested in which is what matters for me. I've been volunteering in an addiction facility over the past few months and hopefully will get a job there if i can impress in some interviews, have an interview coming up for youth justice work also so all this will make a stronger application for my masters. Thanks for taking the time to reply all, you've eased my mind.

Crazyteacher

Has anyone been accepted on to a UCD postgrad course with a 2:2? Would having another postgrad with a 2:1 make up for that 2:2? Say the first MA was a 2:1 , would they look more favourably on the applicant?

[Jackass]

sockcastigator wrote: »

I only say i'm sure i have a 2:2 as i had calculated what i needed for the 2:1, but one of the exams didn't go as well as planned. So i probably got a 3.05 or so. Anyway thanks for the replies, reviewing lecturer portfolios it does seem there selection is based on prestige so i'll keep that in mind.

If you get a 3.05 you could definitely get that bumped up to a 2:1. Go see lecturers, explain the situation, most will be ok with looking to see if there's anywhere you could pick up an extra couple of percent, and with a couple of B's going to B+ etc., you can make up the tiny shortfall.

There's also a review comittee who look at border line cases and if you messed up one exam, might just bump you up based on overall performance.

Cody Pomeray

I'm a postgrad and I have to say the only postgrads I've met with grades lower than a 2:1 were in the professional programs (veterinary medicine and medicine) where the contact hours and course loads are particularly immense.

In my own school, I don't know of anyone with a 2:2 but that doesn't mean an exception can't be made where there are genuine reasons why aspects of the course wasn't suited to your otherwise demonstrable ability.

dublin daz

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I'm a postgrad and I have to say the only postgrads I've met with grades lower than a 2:1 were in the professional programs (veterinary medicine and medicine) where the contact hours and course loads are particularly immense.

In my own school, I don't know of anyone with a 2:2 but that doesn't mean an exception can't be made where there are genuine reasons why aspects of the course wasn't suited to your otherwise demonstrable ability.

I wasn't aware medical degrees had traditional classifications...

Plenty of postgraduate students have ii.2 degrees. Make sure you get a good reference and write a good proposal etc.

Good luck.

Cody Pomeray

Well I'm not sure if they have the actual classification, I'm just speaking about medical graduates who might only have scraped a pass going into academia, which would be much more common than other grads doing so.

Case in point was a previous Registrar of the University (currently President of NUI Maynooth) Philip Nolan, who apparently never aimed for anything more than a pass in his exams, because he considered anything above 50% to be bad time management, and graduated with a pass degree. Didn't hurt his academic career.

beardedmaster

His PhD afterwards didn't hurt his academic career either :pac:

dublin daz

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Well I'm not sure if they have the actual classification, I'm just speaking about medical graduates who might only have scraped a pass going into academia, which would be much more common than other grads doing so.

Case in point was a previous Registrar of the University (currently President of NUI Maynooth) Philip Nolan, who apparently never aimed for anything more than a pass in his exams, because he considered anything above 50% to be bad time management, and graduated with a pass degree. Didn't hurt his academic career.

Wasn't aware of that! Remember him from UCD alright.