Dating and the Biological Clock

riveratom

Lately I have found myself realising that at some point in the coming years I would definitely like to have children (I am 32). Up until very recently it was always something I was open to, but not completely decided on.

More so, like most blokes it was probably something I always figured would be 'one for the future', as in a topic that would arise naturally down the line, once I'd met someone, etc.

I do a fair bit of dating, and meeting one or two girls in their mid-30s (say 34+), it's something that I am really thinking of now - the fact that if something serious was to develop, would it realistically be a bit late for having a family by the time we'd get to that stage. This is leading me to look more at women in their 20s and early 30s, and somewhat 'rule out' those in the mid-30s upwards range.

So it's kind of like if you were 32/33, and you met a girl who was a bit older, -say going on 35 - and you wanted 2-3 kids, by the time you'd get to the marriage / let's start a family stage, she'd be approx 38-ish trying for or having the first. So it seems late for sure, considering fertility declines sharply around the 35 mark, the risks (albeit I know they can be 'managed', etc).

Do you ever think about this kind of thing?

Dravokivich

It is something to keep in mind alright. I think the more trying part though, is attempting to develop a relationship stable enough to sustain the upbringing of a child. As you quite rightly mentioned. I'm still relatively young as it is (28), so not really thinking of the age thing as much as you are yourself.

Pawwed Rig

It is definitely something that I considered but wouldn't say it was the over riding concern when I was dating. As Drav mentioned building a relationship is the hard part. Also important (I think) is finding out early on about the girls thoughts on kids as these things become dealbreakers later on in a relationship.

Uriel.

I suppose you do need to consider dating younger girls (as you do).

It depends though as there are so many variables. A friend of mine, 35 at the time, met a guy and was married within 14months and a kid arriving any day now.

Of course not everyone (and rarely I'd say) will have that kind of speedy relationship development.

The danger is that it can take a number of years to finally settle on the idea of trying for a family with someone and the older that person is at the beginning of the relationship the more problematic it may become.

You are right to have it in your mind as regards potential partners.

Barna77

I don't like kids, I have no patience with them. I've always believed I'd never have any.

But lately, for a couple of years, I've been thinking about it... what if I had a kid? And just thinking of it really scares me. I don't know what to do about it. FFS my brother and his ex broke up before their daughter was born and I have never even made the effort to meet her! :eek:

But then I hear guys saying that having children is the best thing ever happened to them, and I see it around, blokes genuinely happy with little children... that's what makes me consider having children.

As I said, I'm lost here...

riveratom

Barna77 wrote: »

I don't like kids, I have no patience with them. I've always believed I'd never have any.

But lately, for a couple of years, I've been thinking about it... what if I had a kid? And just thinking of it really scares me. I don't know what to do about it. FFS my brother and his ex broke up before their daughter was born and I have never even made the effort to meet her! :eek:

But then I hear guys saying that having children is the best thing ever happened to them, and I see it around, blokes genuinely happy with little children... that's what makes me consider having children.

As I said, I'm lost here...

Guess it depends on whether you are with someone or not! It's mad though as up until now I've always thought of it as a hypothetical, whereas now with turning 33 later this year it's something to be considering!

dearg lady

I don't think it would be a major consideration for me (if I were a man!) Two important points have been brought up, developing a stable enough relationship, and making sure that both partners want kids. I would focus on those. There are too many variables and unknowns, I can't see the point in writing off an older woman.

I filmed a documentary about this from the womans perspective, a few years back. We actually took D4 as an example. Alot of the woman interviewed chose different to the type of many they would normally go for to settle down. All of them did this at the age of 28 so they could be married and have a child at 32 . The men in question were already 30s + .

pastorbarrett

Jaysus, I'm loathe to admit this, y'know, being a dude and all, but I've (objectively, of course) noticed broody hankerings of late. Now, I'm in no position to even consider having children, but the idea of having them in my life at some point appeals to me on some level. I find myself privately gushing over rolls of pudgy baby fat, and the seemingly funny shite they do. Basically the same sort of b0llock$ that girlfriends used to go on about which resulted in me raising my eyes, sighing, and stuffing my right hand down my pants for warmth and reassurance. Damn biology. Like the world needs another individual even remotely like me...

Yellow Lobster

dearg lady wrote: »

I don't think it would be a major consideration for me (if I were a man!) Two important points have been brought up, developing a stable enough relationship, and making sure that both partners want kids. I would focus on those. There are too many variables and unknowns, I can't see the point in writing off an older woman.

The point of writing off older women is that it reduces the risks of problems conceiving or having unhealthy babies.

Pepe LeFrits

I think about it but for different reasons. I guess I assume that women around my age are probably thinking marriage and babies which tends to put me off them a little, as at this point in time I've absolutely no interest in either marriage or having kids, and I don't want to waste their time.

Dating a 22 year old keeps the problem out of mind... :pac:

dearg lady

Yellow Lobster wrote: »

The point of writing off older women is that it reduces the risks of problems conceiving or having unhealthy babies.

Oh I understand that, but the point I meant is that it's so hard to meet someone you really click with, and you could marry a younger girl and still have problems conceiving etc, so I wouldn't put SO much focus on age, that's all.

cgarrad

Ask people who have had kids who are now in their mid twentys (the kids obv ;-) if they would recommend it.

Most will say no.

I've asked a lot and even their kids are surprised by the answer.

Richard Hillman

I was just talking to a pal the other day about this, as we were having our weekly "We are getting so ****ing old" conversation. I am currently 27 and feel I have 5 years left to settle down with something decent as my looks will have completely faded by the time I will reach 33. I dont mean have children by the time I reach 33 but to find a decent suiter.

Getting better looking with age isn't the case with all men. I was far better looking 3-4 years ago and going downhill fast.

riveratom

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I was just talking to a pal the other day about this, as we were having our weekly "We are getting so ****ing old" conversation. I am currently 27 and feel I have 5 years left to settle down with something decent as my looks will have completely faded by the time I will reach 33. I dont mean have children by the time I reach 33 but to find a decent suiter.

Getting better looking with age isn't the case with all men. I was far better looking 3-4 years ago and going downhill fast.

You're 27?! Get outta town man, you're just a kid! When I was that age I hadn't a bean really... I'm early 30s now and feel just as young.

If you feel you're going downhill fast then why is that. Maybe look after yourself better, more exercise, eat better, etc. That's off-topic though

riveratom

cgarrad wrote: »

Ask people who have had kids who are now in their mid twentys (the kids obv ;-) if they would recommend it.

Most will say no.

I've asked a lot and even their kids are surprised by the answer.

How old are the parents, like at least around mid-40s I presume? I do hear it's just better to have them young in terms of being able to run around after them all and stuff. Plus maybe you don't really want to be in your mid-60s when one of your kids is celebrating their 21st..

Galwayguy35

I'm 38 and yeah I would like to have kids but I also realise that it may not happen, if i was to meet someone tomorrow assuming everything worked out it would be at least a few years before we would be thinking of having a kid.

I would rarely date women that would be more than 3 or 4 years younger than me so fertility issues could be a problem.

Although my mother was nearly 44 when I was born so it can happen for people who plan for a family later in life.

HeadPig

riveratom wrote: »

Lately I have found myself realising....

Do you ever think about this kind of thing?

It's simple biology. As a 32 year old man you are probably equivalent to a 25 year old girl. In 10 years both of you will begin to fade strongly in terms of "value" as a potential partner.

karaokeman

I do think about it sometimes, I'm 21, single and I think I would like to have kids. I love young ones, and the thought of one of your own is remarkable.

Good thing is I look relatively young for my age, so I am confident that I will retain my looks for enough time to find a girl, build a relationship, get married, and decide on kids.

I have said that when I'm about 30, and if I'm still single I might consider using a dating agency, (but only if I have a career, and have something to offer a woman to provide for our future) there's a few in Ireland like intro.ie and twoscompany, which might be of interest to readers here. They are mainly for professionals who can't find time for dating, though I've heard great reviews. I'm still in college, with no precise plan for my future, so I'm using the aforementioned age as a deadline for when I'd like to at least be started in a career I'm happy with.

I'm undecided about dating websites, I don't like the thought that any "girl" could pretend to be someone they're not, I also like to cut down on the time I spend online.

I don't think I would have a problem dating a girl a few years younger, but of I met one past childbearing age who had everything I look for, I might need to reconsider children, but I'm hopeful I will meet someone with all that who also wants to start a family.

Pepe LeFrits

I think you might be getting a bit ahead of yourself there, karoakeman...

wallycharlo

Barna77 wrote: »

I don't like kids, I have no patience with them. I've always believed I'd never have any...

Think it's fair to say that one can't get proper perspective on this until you have a child yourself.

A lot of parents who dote on their own kids are very intolerant to other people's children!

knucklehead6

Riveratom and GalwayGuy35 have both made valid points here, and they are the same points that I have had to come to accept as my own particular lot.

I would have liked to have had kids, but it hasn't happened for me. Now i find myself wondering would it be fair on any potential offspring to have kids as i'm 37. Lets say i meet someone and by the time the first bit of fumbling around is done, and by the time you've gotten through the fun and games of a new relationship starting up and all that entails, lets say she decides she wants to be married before any kids are brought along. realistically speaking that's 18 months gone before any kids even entered into the equation. So I'm at least 40 before any kid is born, early 60's when the same kid is celebrating it's 21st.

Is that fair on the kid? I don't think so. So at this stage i've accepted that children are not in my future.....which is a pity cos i always saw myself as having some, feck it, i bought a 4 bed house!!

wallycharlo

knucklehead6 wrote: »

...So I'm at least 40 before any kid is born, early 60's when the same kid is celebrating it's 21st.

Is that fair on the kid? I don't think so...

I have no idea how you are coming to that conclusion?

Have you any idea how many children are born these days when one or both parents is 40+?

knucklehead6

wallycharlo wrote: »

I have no idea how you are coming to that conclusion?

Have you any idea how many children are born these days when one or both parents is 40+?

plenty, including my own younger sister.

But how many of those kids are the first-born? With the potential of being an only child?? I'd prefer not to have any kids than just have one.

wallycharlo

knucklehead6 wrote: »

...I'd prefer not to have any kids than just have one.

But what would be stopping you having another? i.e. going on your own example you could have the first at 40 and the next at 42/43 etc?

Malari

knucklehead6 wrote: »

plenty, including my own younger sister.

But how many of those kids are the first-born? With the potential of being an only child?? I'd prefer not to have any kids than just have one.

I know several people who started families in their 40s. Of course there are more risks, but even if you only have one, what's so bad about having an only child? Granted, it may not be your preference, but it's not a curse or anything!

B0jangles

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Riveratom and GalwayGuy35 have both made valid points here, and they are the same points that I have had to come to accept as my own particular lot.

I would have liked to have had kids, but it hasn't happened for me. Now i find myself wondering would it be fair on any potential offspring to have kids as i'm 37. Lets say i meet someone and by the time the first bit of fumbling around is done, and by the time you've gotten through the fun and games of a new relationship starting up and all that entails, lets say she decides she wants to be married before any kids are brought along. realistically speaking that's 18 months gone before any kids even entered into the equation. So I'm at least 40 before any kid is born, early 60's when the same kid is celebrating it's 21st.

Is that fair on the kid? I don't think so. So at this stage i've accepted that children are not in my future.....which is a pity cos i always saw myself as having some, feck it, i bought a 4 bed house!!

My Grandad was 47 when his first child was born and 52 when he and my Grandmother had twins. They had a very happy family life and he was even lucky enough to live to see all of his grandchildren born. He died when I was 11 so old enough to have real memories of him.

Don't feel too old, sure you're only a babby

riveratom

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Riveratom and GalwayGuy35 have both made valid points here, and they are the same points that I have had to come to accept as my own particular lot.

I would have liked to have had kids, but it hasn't happened for me. Now i find myself wondering would it be fair on any potential offspring to have kids as i'm 37. Lets say i meet someone and by the time the first bit of fumbling around is done, and by the time you've gotten through the fun and games of a new relationship starting up and all that entails, lets say she decides she wants to be married before any kids are brought along. realistically speaking that's 18 months gone before any kids even entered into the equation. So I'm at least 40 before any kid is born, early 60's when the same kid is celebrating it's 21st.

Is that fair on the kid? I don't think so. So at this stage i've accepted that children are not in my future.....which is a pity cos i always saw myself as having some, feck it, i bought a 4 bed house!!

Ah I think 37 is plenty young dude, sure if you had a kid when you were 40 then you'd only be in your early-mid 50s' when s/he would be starting secondary school, you're only a young buck still to be fair. If you were female you'd be right to be getting concerned, but you've still plenty of time I reckon.

A lot of it will come down to how you look after yourself is the way I look at it. You could be 60 and in peak shape, much fitter than someone 20 years younger! Sure I'm only back from the gym and there was a guy on the cross-trainer next to me - I'd say he was in his mid 60s and he was giving it socks.

iptba

riveratom wrote: »

How old are the parents, like at least around mid-40s I presume? I do hear it's just better to have them young in terms of being able to run around after them all and stuff. Plus maybe you don't really want to be in your mid-60s when one of your kids is celebrating their 21st..

Quite a lot of people who start early don't stop early - they have a third or a fourth (say). If two would do somebody, it can be an advantage starting late.

riveratom

iptba wrote: »

Quite a lot of people who start early don't stop early - they have a third or a fourth (say). If two would do somebody, it can be an advantage starting late.

Perhaps, but the later you leave it the riskier it all gets. I also read somewhere that biologically there is a difference between having one earlier on and then another later, compared to having your first later on. Not sure of the details on that though, but maybe it means that having one say in your early 30s means it would be easier to conceive in your later 30s, for example. I don't know the ins and outs of that though.

karaokeman

I've read that having children at a later age (50s abouts) increases the chances of them having Downs Syndrome. I'm no science nerd so I wouldn't be able to explain the factors that cause this to happen.

That said I have an uncle who didn't have kids until his early 50s, and his last was born when he was 56, and none of them have any sort of medical condition.

iptba

karaokeman wrote: »

I've read that having children at a later age (50s abouts) increases the chances of them having Downs Syndrome. I'm no science nerd so I wouldn't be able to explain the factors that cause this to happen.

That said I have an uncle who didn't have kids until his early 50s, and his last was born when he was 56, and none of them have any sort of medical condition.

I'm no expert on this but just looked this up.

Epidemiology

The CDC estimates that about 1 of every 691 babies born in the United States each year is born with Down syndrome.[8] Each year about 6,000 babies in the United States are born with this condition. Approximately 95% of these are trisomy 21.

Maternal age influences the chances of conceiving a baby with Down syndrome. At maternal age 20 to 24, the probability is one in 1562; at age 35 to 39 the probability is one in 214, and above age 45 the probability is one in 19.[88] Although the probability increases with maternal age, 80% of children with Down syndrome are born to women under the age of 35,[89] reflecting the overall fertility of that age group. Recent data also suggest that paternal age, especially beyond 42,[90] also increases the risk of Down syndrome manifesting.[91]

91. Warner, Jennifer. "Dad's Age Raises Down Syndrome Risk, Too", "WebMD Medical News". Retrieved 2007-09-29.
http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20030701/dad-age-down-syndrome

http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20030701/dad-age-down-syndrome

Dad's Age Raises Down Syndrome Risk, Too
Combined Effect of Older Mothers and Fathers Increases Baby's Risk

Previous studies have shown that the risk of a woman having a baby with Down syndrome rises dramatically after she reaches 35. Although this effect of maternal age on Down syndrome risk is well known, researchers say the influence of the father's age on Down syndrome has not yet been defined. Some studies have found no relationship, while other, smaller studies have suggested that older fathers may raise the risk of Down syndrome.

[..]

"Paternal age has an effect on Down syndrome but only in mothers 35 years old and older," write researcher Harry Fisch, MD, of the department of urology at Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center in New York City, and colleagues. "In younger women, in whom age was not a risk factor for Down syndrome, there was no paternal effect."

Pawwed Rig

There are benefits too in that children of older fathers tend to live longer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18392873

mrcheez

You could always adopt?

capefear

Im 41 and had always said I didn't want kids but that changed as I meet the one and we were together for 10 years the first six or seven years were great, we had are own business and had nice holidays, nice house, worked for our self and everything seemed to be ticking a long nicely. As the years went on we started thinking about a family and around 37 - 38 nothing was stirring so we went and had all the test etc and doctors said they couldn't see any reason why we couldn't have kids. So forward a few years and still nothing. Then we hit the bad times, partly due to not been able to have kids together we both took that hard, the business failed because it depended a lot on the construction industry, negativity equity, periods of unemployment, health problems etc etc etc.

So I have started to realize that there is a very very good chance that kids are not in my future and it hurts. I have tried to get back in the dating game but having let myself go over the years, (Im no Brad Pitt) and tried the online dating thing it seems ladies in their mid 30's don't seem to want a man in his 40's, as its all based on photos not personality, so your not giving much of a chance.

So my advice to you young bucks, is enjoy life, keep in shape, respect the lady your with, be honest with her and each other about what you want, talk to each other and if it starts getting serious have all the tests and most off all be aware that time flies. When I was 35, I said I had loads of time for kids and that seemed only yesterday.

Now Im off to adopt a dog ;-)

Galwayguy35

My father was 57 when I was born, he was a good man who worked hard to provide for us but looking back I had nothing in common with him and our views on everything were worlds apart, by the time I was 10 he was a pensioner and he was dead by the time i was 21.

That's why although I know no one can predict the future I would imagine that if by the time I reached my early 40s and haven't had any kids I will decide that it's just one of those things that wasn't meant to be.

The Corinthian

If you want to 'settle down' and start a family, there's a few things I would, from my experience, advise:

To begin with, the age of the prospective mother is by far the single largest determinant to having healthy children. Certainly you'll hear of women in their mid-forties getting pregnant naturally and 25-year olds giving birth to children with Down's syndrome, but this are by far the exception rather than the rule. Typically, when someone brings up such exceptions in discussions it seems to be a woman 9/10 times, I've noticed.

How many kids do you want? I ask because if you start when your other half is 38, then you'll probably only get one at best. Even at 33 you'll have to be on a fairly brutal schedule if you want more than two or three. And if you want a big family, then realistically you should be settling down before you're thirty, let alone the mother-to-be.

And that brings us to when you meet. When you hit your thirties, you'll suddenly notice friends who meet a girl, also in her thirties, and within two years they're married and have a child on the way - the 21st century equivalent of a shotgun wedding. This means in under 24 months, two strangers have met, decided to have a lifelong legal commitment to each other and started a family.

I'll leave you to reach your own conclusions on such 'love' matches.

Also do remember men have a biological clock too, like women, but it works differently; we can biologically have children when we're eighty, but with who? At the end of the day, you still have to attract a woman of child baring age and naturally this will become harder as you yourself grow older.

Nonetheless, fortunately we have far better chances to be with women younger than us, for various social and perhaps biological reasons. How much younger depends upon your personality, charm, health, attractiveness and (call a spade a spade) wealth; age gaps of anything between five and twenty years (with the man being the older party) are not unusual.

In conclusion:

• Don't panic and rush into anything. Better to take things slowly and carefully than rush to have kids that you'll be lucky to see once a week when you divorce.
• Beware 30-somethings. Even if you don't have an agenda, they often do.
• Men can wait longer than women; but don't depend on it and we too have an effective cut off date. Especially if you're an overweight, ugly loser in a dead end job.
• There's no shortage of 25-year olds with father complexes.

capefear

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6511/David-Jason-father.html

There's hope for us all :-)

Jogathon

Oh Corinthian, your posts always depress me. It's just such a negative view of women. We're not all out to trap.

The biological clock thing does worry me though. I'm 33, seeing a guy since Christmas, he's 30. I'm having fun but if this doesn't work out then have I just wasted more time? I'm not in the slightest bit broody now, but I imagine that I will be in the future.

riveratom

Jogathon wrote: »

Oh Corinthian, your posts always depress me. It's just such a negative view of women. We're not all out to trap.

The biological clock thing does worry me though. I'm 33, seeing a guy since Christmas, he's 30. I'm having fun but if this doesn't work out then have I just wasted more time? I'm not in the slightest bit broody now, but I imagine that I will be in the future.

I think this is a good illustration of why people say to bring up the whole 'so what do you want for the future' / thinly veiled 'do you want kids' talk that has been mentioned. Just helps clarify whether you are both on the same page I guess..

That said, I'd say by now you have a sense of whether he's just going with the flow, or whether you sense there might be something more serious there, etc...

Jogathon

riveratom wrote: »

I think this is a good illustration of why people say to bring up the whole 'so what do you want for the future' / thinly veiled 'do you want kids' talk that has been mentioned. Just helps clarify whether you are both on the same page I guess..

That said, I'd say by now you have a sense of whether he's just going with the flow, or whether you sense there might be something more serious there, etc...

I do sense (he says it straight out) that he is quite serious about me, and I am serious about him. So he's definitely worth the time investment.

From casual chats we want the same things in life. And I can't resist him so that's a bonus!

I guess that I am sceptical of my own judgement at the moment. Thought I was in a good relationship when I was 30, and it wasn't as it turned out!

The Corinthian

Jogathon wrote: »

Oh Corinthian, your posts always depress me. It's just such a negative view of women. We're not all out to trap.

I never said you were all out to trap. TBH, I suspect very few are actually actively seeking to trap anyone.

However, with the deadline of 40 looming, it does appear as if the actual person becomes a secondary consideration to settling down in the first place and I think this thinking is more true of women than men.

Men can be just as bad, but we lack the focus that the big four-oh engenders. We see articles about men like David Jason having kids at 60 and relax, never realizing that most of us are not famous, rich or even terribly attractive - by the time we do, it's too late.

The biological clock thing does worry me though. I'm 33, seeing a guy since Christmas, he's 30. I'm having fun but if this doesn't work out then have I just wasted more time? I'm not in the slightest bit broody now, but I imagine that I will be in the future.

You still have time; just don't rush in. Better never to have kids than to rush into a bad relationship, IMO.

riveratom wrote: »

Just helps clarify whether you are both on the same page I guess..

And you get to tick a box too...

Jogathon wrote: »

I do sense (he says it straight out) that he is quite serious about me, and I am serious about him. So he's definitely worth the time investment.

From casual chats we want the same things in life. And I can't resist him so that's a bonus!

What ever happened to not being able to resist someone being mandatory in love and matching life plans being being the bonus?

Maybe, I'm just a foolish romantic...

blacklilly

Corinthian a good place to start to find a women with whom you'd like to have children with is not to look at us as baby making machines.
Also your comment regarding plenty of 25 year olds with a father complex sounds predator like to be honest.
As a women nearing 27 who can't wait to have children it's comments like yours that make me very skeptical towards older men. Many women know by the time they are 25 or so if they want children yet most of the men of the same age are no where near to settling down thus pushing many women to choose older men. I'd love to meet a guy my age or a bit older who wants what I want. I don't really want to have children with a man nearing 40.
This is not to say that all men this age who have yet to have children would not make great partners, fathers etc, it's more to do with the way in which Corinthian describes in his post.

The Corinthian

blacklilly wrote: »

Corinthian a good place to start to find a women with whom you'd like to have children with is not to look at us as baby making machines.

Then you're not paying attention; the point I've made is not that I see women as baby making machines, but all too often women do - hence the desperate scramble to settle down with any mammal with a penis that ticks enough boxes, once in the home stretch to 40.

Also your comment regarding plenty of 25 year olds with a father complex sounds predator like to be honest.

Are you telling me that a woman specifically seeking to settle down and have a family and following an agenda to do so is acceptable predatory behaviour (because that too is what it is) or that you'd prefer if only women were allowed to be predatory?

Both genders are to a degree predatory. Both have agendas. My point is that this behaviour has increasingly overshadowed that brief period of history where people actually married for love and returned us to dispassionate matches based upon advantage and check-lists.

But if this is the World we live in, then we must play by its rules; hence my advice.

As a women nearing 27 who can't wait to have children it's comments like yours that make me very skeptical towards older men. Many women know by the time they are 25 or so if they want children yet most of the men of the same age are no where near to settling down thus pushing many women to choose older men. I'd love to meet a guy my age or a bit older who wants what I want. I don't really want to have children with a man nearing 40.

People are settling down later in life. There's a number of reasons for this: Greater social acceptance of cohabitation and sex outside of marriage. More pressure on both genders to establish careers during their twenties and now even our thirties. The breakdown of the traditional family unit in modern society. The potentially catastrophic consequences of a marriage failing for men disdaining us from doing so. There's plenty of reasons.

This has disadvantaged women because women have a biological deadline for reproduction that men do not have with the same certainty - certainly our capacity to attract a mate, young enough to have children, at 50 decreases and many men cannot, but also many men can. So many of us can afford to wait, or delude ourselves we can; but either way it means than we tend to do so - leaving the pool of men ready to settle down in their twenties much, much smaller than the corresponding pool of women in their twenties.

You might not like that; that men don't have the same need to settle down as women until later in life, or that we are able to in the first place, and this may force women to seek older men, but there you go - there's still plenty of women who settle down with guys their age or even younger, it's just that they tend to be a minority.

Ultimately, what I posted was practical advice for men - after all, this is the Gentlemen's Club. If you think it flawed, feel free to tell me where I'm incorrect, otherwise you may not like this advice but it's not for your benefit - if you want that, I believe there's another forum here that might better suit your needs in that regard.

pwurple

The Corinthian wrote: »

In conclusion:

• Don't panic and rush into anything. Better to take things slowly and carefully than rush to have kids that you'll be lucky to see once a week when you divorce.
• Beware 30-somethings. Even if you don't have an agenda, they often do.
• Men can wait longer than women; but don't depend on it and we too have an effective cut off date. Especially if you're an overweight, ugly loser in a dead end job.
• There's no shortage of 25-year olds with father complexes.

OP will be delighted to hear there are 30-year olds with an agenda, if it's to bear his children. That's exactly what he is looking for!

My only advice would be to consider commit properly and marry the girl you find before popping out the babies. Having children who are not legally related to you has broken many mens hearts.

riveratom

pwurple wrote: »

OP will be delighted to hear there are 30-year olds with an agenda, if it's to bear his children. That's exactly what he is looking for!

My only advice would be to consider commit properly and marry the girl you find before popping out the babies. Having children who are not legally related to you has broken many mens hearts.

Haha! Send me a PM blacklilly

Yes very true. I'd want to be married first for definite. Of course it doesn't always happen that way, but it's the ideal.

That's also partly why I brought up this whole topic. If you are going to meet someone, build a relationship, have the proposal, plan and arrange a wedding, get married, settle somewhere and then try, then you're talking at least 2-3 years of lead time. And that's only to try for your first! As a 32 year old bloke, that's why I'm more drawn to girls in their mid-late 20s at this stage.

Tombo2001

A comment on this.

I am 40 this year. We are having our third child. I feel a bit old for it.....the whole new born baby thing.....that is not to say I dont want it to happen, quite the opposite.......but I do wish I had the energy I had even five years ago. Now maybe I just feel more tired because we have two kids already, in other words its not because I am older but because I am on a complete threadmill.

But my point generally is, if like the OP you are 32 and 'thinking about having kids' in a vague sense.....to have a family of say three kids......its going to take probably 6 years.....maybe longer if you or your partner insist on being married before hand.

Do you want to be looking after a newborn when you are 40 or over.....Its not easy. Years ago I think men could be dads at 50 plus because they did feck all parenting.....they never changed a nappy.* The world has changed.

I'm not trying to put people off it. I can go on as much as the next person about how great kids are. And they are, they are absolutely fantastic. But just thought it is worth thinking about, in practical terms rather than abstract terms. Because from my point of view......its only two world cups ago that I was the person thinking 'not sure if I want to have kids'.....


* There was an interview in the paper the other day with a 95 year old British art dealer who said his dad was 70 when he was born, and died when he was five years old; and that he still missed his dad every day. I thought it was very poignant. Another time I read an interview with a 90 year old man whose father was killed in the first world war; he said he still cried about it, 80+ years later. Dads are very important to their kids.

riveratom

Tombo2001 wrote: »

A comment on this.

I am 40 this year. We are having our third child. I feel a bit old for it.....the whole new born baby thing.....that is not to say I dont want it to happen, quite the opposite.......but I do wish I had the energy I had even five years ago. Now maybe I just feel more tired because we have two kids already, in other words its not because I am older but because I am on a complete threadmill.

But my point generally is, if like the OP you are 32 and 'thinking about having kids' in a vague sense.....to have a family of say three kids......its going to take probably 6 years.....maybe longer if you or your partner insist on being married before hand.

Do you want to be looking after a newborn when you are 40 or over.....Its not easy. Years ago I think men could be dads at 50 plus because they did feck all parenting.....they never changed a nappy.* The world has changed.

I'm not trying to put people off it. I can go on as much as the next person about how great kids are. And they are, they are absolutely fantastic. But just thought it is worth thinking about, in practical terms rather than abstract terms. Because from my point of view......its only two world cups ago that I was the person thinking 'not sure if I want to have kids'.....


* There was an interview in the paper the other day with a 95 year old British art dealer who said his dad was 70 when he was born, and died when he was five years old; and that he still missed his dad every day. I thought it was very poignant. Another time I read an interview with a 90 year old man whose father was killed in the first world war; he said he still cried about it, 80+ years later. Dads are very important to their kids.

Nice post. Yep, that's exactly why I am thinking about it now. It is a priority for me, and I don't see why it should be treated any differently to any of the other important things in life. I could easily drift along and wake up at 38 wondering what happened, so I'm looking to make sure that's not the way it goes.

Ideally I would love to have 2 or 3 kids. 2 would be perfect and 3 would be just as perfect, if it happened. If I met the woman I'm meant to be with today, that would mean I'd be maybe 37 or so at least, having the second. So that's not much time at all, even though at first glance I am still very much only a young bloke now.

blacklilly

The Corinthian wrote: »

Ultimately, what I posted was practical advice for men - after all, this is the Gentlemen's Club. If you think it flawed, feel free to tell me where I'm incorrect, otherwise you may not like this advice but it's not for your benefit - if you want that, I believe there's another forum here that might better suit your needs in that regard.

I think it is the way in which you choose to phrase some points. It all sounded so mechanical and void of any emotion. I can only speak for myself but I wouldn't be willing to settle for any man in order to have a child. I understand what you say in regards to men not having to consider this as early as women do but prehaps men should start giving thought to this earlier as I think it's best for a child if both parents are relatively young.

Tombo2001

blacklilly wrote: »

I think it is the way in which you choose to phrase some points. .

The Corinthian spoke to men in mens language in a post in the Gentleman's Club. I personally have zero problem with what he said.

wallycharlo

blacklilly wrote: »

...I think it's best for a child if both parents are relatively young...

I would tend to agree.

In my own experience it would seem that the majotiry of people these days decide to have their first child in their early to mid 30s, which would most likely be a decade later than the previous generation. Arguments can be made for and against.

Then again, maybe it's just the people I know :pac: