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Ireland is a Tax Haven

  • 22-05-2013 01:33AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭


    While the mechanics of Apple’s international tax strategy – in which Ireland plays a key role – is a little clearer following CEO Tim Cook’s appearance before a US Senate hearing, the rights and wrongs of it are still hotly contested.
    Before Cook had even taken his seat before the panel of politicians, Senator John McCain made clear his opinion by declaring that Apple had “violated the spirit of the law, if not the letter of the law” in the way it handles its international income.
    However fellow Republican Rand Paul lambasted the committee for “dragging” Apple executives in to be “harangued and bullied” for doing what all sensible companies – and people – do; minimise their tax bill.
    The company could find itself guilty of malpractice if it failed to reduce what it paid in tax, he said and the committee “should be congratulating them for being a great American company”.
    Chairman Carl Levin was quick to reject this characterisation of the hearing, saying that there was “no attempt to vilify” any person or company. The committee hearing intended to “shine a light” on how the system works, he said, rather than cast judgement on it.

    Indeed the Washington session was consistently punctuated with qualifications, where senators couched each probe with an assurance that they were not trying to divine the legality or otherwise of Apple’s approach to tax.
    At the heart of the questioning was an attempt to tease out the role of Apple Operations International, Apple Operations Europe and Apple Sales International – all registered in Ireland – in Apple’s business model.
    This was important to the committee, as these companies manage Apple sales outside of America – in other words the majority of its revenue - and pay no tax back to the US. AOI is also the holder of a $100bn cash pile, money Apple has said it has no intention of repatriating to the US in the foreseeable future
    <snip>

    From RTE today. Surprised it's not getting a mention on After Hours. I wonder if they'd cut me a similar deal if I tried to start a business


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    From RTE today. Surprised it's not getting a mention on After Hours. I wonder if they'd cut me a similar deal if I tried to start a business

    If you could take 4k+ off the dole and generate millions/billions then youll get 2% too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Dempsey wrote: »
    If you could take 4k+ of the dole and generate millions/billions then youll get 2% too

    Not on the dole, Bud. I left Ireland last year and before that I had worked there for 15 years. I chose to leave.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Not on the dole, Bud. I left Ireland last year and before that I had worked there for 15 years. I chose to leave.

    never said u were. I said if u could start a business generating what they do then you'll get 2% tax rate aswell


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    EA job announcement:
    "This job announcement is evidence of Galway's talented, determined and skilled workforce and is great news for Galway's local economy. The IDA estimates that for these 300 jobs, a further 210 will be created in retail and hospitality and so on."
    ’Cisco’s R&D operation in Ireland is developing industry leading products for global markets. Access to diverse top-class engineering talent and support from IDA Ireland have helped build a successful, innovative and global development capability over the last five years."
    He continued “HP works closely with the Government and the IDA and notwithstanding recent improvements in Irish competitiveness, their support was essential to winning this investment for Ireland. The cumulative impact of this announcement on the Irish economy will be up to €45m over three years.”

    HP will be drawing from Ireland’s deep talent pool to recruit highly qualified engineering and computer science graduates, in addition to experienced engineers.
    “We chose Dublin as our first location outside of New York City over many others in Europe,” said Anthony Casalena, Founder and CEO of Squarespace. “Dublin offers us a friendly, young, and talented workforce in a vibrant center city location. It’s the perfect choice for Squarespace.”
    The Guidewire Services Centre was initially set up to meet the growing customer demand for assistance in implementing Guidewire’s solutions around the world. The technical talent in the area convinced Guidewire to also create its fourth Regional Development Centre in Dublin. It joins Guidewire teams in the San Francisco Bay Area, Tokyo, and Toronto as a product development operation.

    Why, Big heartless multi-national companies!? Why!?... I believed you :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Dempsey wrote: »
    never said u were. I said if u could start a business generating what they do then you'll get 2% tax rate aswell

    What they do now? Or what they did when they first set up?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    The London financial district is a tax haven for banks. Germany and France don't offer car manufacturers tax incentives, they offer them massive subsidies instead, Denmark is a tax haven for energy production research and manufacturing. Spain is a tax haven for.... Well Spain has no industry but you get the gist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭skinny90


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    From RTE today. Surprised it's not getting a mention on After Hours. I wonder if they'd cut me a similar deal if I tried to start a business

    Because all multi national companies are guilty not just one which you are making it out to be


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    However fellow Republican Rand Paul lambasted the committee for “dragging” Apple executives in to be “harangued and bullied” for doing what all sensible companies – and people – do; minimise their tax bill.

    A good old libertarian nanny stater hypocrite talking out of his hole. If he'd a fucking clue about the actual free market he'd be criticising how the state contributes to the enormity of corporations like Apple by enforcing their highly dubious copyrights, patents, monopolies and very status as a fictional legal entity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    skinny90 wrote: »
    Because all multi national companies are guilty not just one which you are making it out to be

    I posted quotes about a bunch of different companies who set up in Ireland, insinuating that they setup in Ireland due similar special arrangements....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭Kichote


    Dempsey wrote: »
    If you could take 4k+ off the dole and generate millions/billions then youll get 2% too

    Its just us normal people who get screwed with tax. Big companies with loads to spare? Let em keep it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭skinny90


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I posted quotes about a bunch of different companies who set up in Ireland, insinuating that they setup in Ireland due similar special arrangements....

    Meh I read the op and quoted the op
    Sky news are just as bad.i don't see what's the big deal to be honest


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    this just in

    "company seeks to minimise its tax bill shocker"

    :rolleyes:

    thats why there is no thread, its a non story, at this stage its one persons word against the other . apple v's the irish government


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Dempsey wrote: »
    never said u were. I said if u could start a business generating what they do then you'll get 2% tax rate aswell

    In fairness this has nothing to do with the rate or jobs for that matter, it has everything to do with rules, that Apple, Google and others exploit legally.

    As was raised on the VB show, we actually have shell companies here that create no jobs and cost us €50-100 Million a year just to be here.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    The whole thing is a laughing stock.The government are trying to bring in water tax,household tax,property tax,media device tax which would all add up to a few hundred million while losing out on potentially a few billion.

    Another thing,if Apple get hit for little or no tax,why is the small company even bothering paying the 12%.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    Dempsey wrote: »
    If you could take 4k+ off the dole and generate millions/billions then youll get 2% too

    Yeah. Taxes are only for little people. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    The Lord Mayor of Cork was on the radio yesterday and was saying words to the effect "Aah but their 4,000 employees are paying tax"

    So the company itself can pay whatever tax they like,is it? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭corkonion


    I used to think Irelands low corporate tax rate, and its many loopholes to make it even lower still, was a good thing for this country as I believed it brought good paying jobs to Ireland and added to our national wealth indirectly, but,
    as this austere period drags on, and I see a second successive generation start to emigrate, I think its time to say "enough is enough". Keep our low corporate rate, but make the companies pay that 12 per cent. not reduce it further by claiming r+d breaks, or foreign (yet internal)supply costs etc etc.
    Every company located here should pay 12 pc on all its profits.


  • Administrators Posts: 55,229 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    corkonion wrote: »
    I used to think Irelands low corporate tax rate, and its many loopholes to make it even lower still, was a good thing for this country as I believed it brought good paying jobs to Ireland and added to our national wealth indirectly, but,
    as this austere period drags on, and I see a second successive generation start to emigrate, I think its time to say "enough is enough". Keep our low corporate rate, but make the companies pay that 12 per cent. not reduce it further by claiming r+d breaks, or foreign (yet internal)supply costs etc etc.
    Every company located here should pay 12 pc on all its profits.

    What profits? Are you talking about stuff sold in shops?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Dempsey wrote: »
    I said if u could start a business generating what they do then you'll get 2% tax rate aswell

    No you would not. The likes of Dunnes or Tesco would employ a lot more and they pay a lot more tax % wise than Apple or Google.

    Ireland is a tax haven for multinationals to launder their profits through, at the expense of the taxpayers abroad. Simple as that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    I've decided to 'do a Google' on it myself.

    From now on AnonoBoy is a floating international entity with no base anywhere and therefore not liable for income tax...........


    ..... OH NO!!!! I'VE BECOME A FREEMAN!!!! :eek:


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  • Administrators Posts: 55,229 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    maryishere wrote: »
    No you would not. The likes of Dunnes or Tesco would employ a lot more and they pay a lot more tax % wise than Apple or Google.

    Ireland is a tax haven for multinationals to launder their profits through, at the expense of the taxpayers abroad. Simple as that.

    I guess if you totally ignore the fact they employ a significant number of people in highly paid skilled roles then that might be true.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    I think we should explore the possibility of Ireland becoming a fully fledged tax haven for all manufacturing companies worldwide. I wouldn't have a problem with giving 0% tax status to any firm based in Ireland guaranteeing 5k+ tax paying jobs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    oldyouth wrote: »
    I think we should explore the possibility of Ireland becoming a fully fledged tax haven for all manufacturing companies worldwide. I wouldn't have a problem with giving 0% tax status to any firm based in Ireland guaranteeing 5k+ tax paying jobs

    That cant happen as a member of the EU.

    As it stands,I suprised Merkel isnt after flying in asking Enda what the fcuk is going on.

    Also,How come the IMF are not after spotting this while looking through our books.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭skywalker


    oldyouth wrote: »
    I think we should explore the possibility of Ireland becoming a fully fledged tax haven for all manufacturing companies worldwide. I wouldn't have a problem with giving 0% tax status to any firm based in Ireland guaranteeing 5k+ tax paying jobs

    The EU wouldnt have it though. As it is their going to lean on Enda pretty heavily given the publicity of this. If that results in some sensible arrangement like apples tax going up by 1 or 2 percent, & that money going into paying off the countries debts, or god forbid reducing the amount of stealth taxes their implementing, then happy days. Anything more than that we risk becoming uncompetitive, & apple will be off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭Sergeant


    Don't see what the problem is here? Tax avoidance is standard operating procedure for any well-ran and governed corporation. I'd rather we attract companies here who provide employment and investment than chase them away to some other country who will use tax-breaks as a sweetener. That will just cause the economy to stagnate even further.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    That cant happen as a member of the EU.

    As it stands,I suprised Merkel isnt after flying in asking Enda what the fcuk is going on.

    Also,How come the IMF are not after spotting this while looking through our books.

    Well, the "Double Irish" has been a thing since about the end of the 80's.
    So, yeah, I'd say they know about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭force eleven


    What's the problem? Just because lil ole Brussels or Mrs Merkel doesn't like it? It should be lower than its official rate ( Corpo Tax) to attract industry from abroad. More jobs, more tax for the exchequer, less people on the dole. Let em in for nothing I say.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    As it stands,I suprised Merkel isnt after flying in asking Enda what the fcuk is going on.
    What would be the point though? She'd just get a loads of bollocks back, better to just ignore him and get on wiz ze plan.


  • Administrators Posts: 55,229 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The reason Merkel and the rest of them don't like it is because our low corp tax rate is seeing investment coming to Ireland from these companies instead of to their countries.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    What's the problem? Just because lil ole Brussels or Mrs Merkel doesn't like it? It should be lower than its official rate ( Corpo Tax) to attract industry from abroad. More jobs, more tax for the exchequer, less people on the dole. Let em in for nothing I say.

    Would a level playing field not be better?.Should poor old Tommy down the road bother paying his 12.5%?

    Should Apple not just buy Ireland with the money they have amassed in tax avoidance?.They would get us cheap.:D


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