Forbes : Finally! Independent Testing Of Rossi's E-Cat Cold Fusion Device

celtic_oz

The paper was authored by Giuseppe Levi of Bologna University, Bologna, Italy; Evelyn Foschi, Bologna, Italy; Torbjörn Hartman, Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér of Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén, of the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden. While some of these people have previously been public in their support of Rossi and the E-Cat they are all serious academics with reputations to loose and the paper is detailed and thorough.



Article here

What to think ??

Is it "one of the most elaborate hoaxes in scientific history" ?

Outkast_IRE

Hopefully this is true and it works.

Morbert

celtic_oz wrote: »

The paper was authored by Giuseppe Levi of Bologna University, Bologna, Italy; Evelyn Foschi, Bologna, Italy; Torbjörn Hartman, Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér of Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén, of the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden. While some of these people have previously been public in their support of Rossi and the E-Cat they are all serious academics with reputations to loose and the paper is detailed and thorough.



Article here

What to think ??

Is it "one of the most elaborate hoaxes in scientific history" ?

Do you have a link to the paper?

[edit]- I'm blind

http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913

Lbeard

Does it say anywhere in the paper what the mysterious powder in the device is?

celtic_oz

Follow up article here

"At the end of this post I have the roster of the testers as far as I’ve been able to research them. Check out their publications, I find their pedigrees pretty impressive. While there are some oddities (Foschi and Tegnér seem to have little public presence) the rest appear to be more than qualified and to have much to lose (I got that right this time) if they were to be involved in a scam of some kind.

I find it hard to believe that Rossi could, somehow co-opt this diverse group into knowingly participating in a scam. This means that if the whole E-Cat thing is a fraud, the recent tests would have to have been engineered to hoodwink them. We’ll look into those theories in the next posting."

celtic_oz

Another Follow up :

So, the big question is what’s really going on? Let’s consider the options:

1. Rossi is a fraud and the testing was a fraud. This is highly unlikely because it would be a conspiracy of major proportions. Given that it’s hard to get even a handful of people to agree on how to split a lunch bill, getting so many people involved in hyping a fake LENR device seems implausible.
2. Rossi is a fraud and the testers were incompetent and or hoodwinked. This is more likely than option 1 but again, given the scale of the scam and the number of people watching Rossi and working with him, this also seems implausible.
3. Rossi is not a fraud and the E-Cat works as claimed. Of the three previous options this is the least implausible but the hardest to believe given what science and scientists tell us.
4. Rossi is not a fraud and the E-Cat works but it’s not LENR. Of all of the options, this is the most plausible but it’s still very hard to believe.

Article here

Lbeard

celtic_oz wrote: »

[*]Rossi is not a fraud and the E-Cat works but it’s not LENR. Of all of the options, this is the most plausible but it’s still very hard to believe.
[/LIST]

It's not LENR. The casing on that device would be ineffective at blocking X-rays. More energy would cook the people in the room than heat the water.

If it's a chemical reaction, it's as good as useless.

celtic_oz

Lbeard wrote: »

If it's a chemical reaction, it's as good as useless.

agreed, but also not chemical .. what can it be ?

from here

The measurements show that the catalyst gives substantially more energy than can be explained by ordinary chemical reactions. The results are very remarkable. What lies behind the extraordinary heat production can not be explained today.There has been speculation over whether there can be any form of nuclear transformation. However, this is highly questionable.

bogwalrus

The answer lies in the substance he is using. He is keeping it hidden because it takes a large amount of energy to create it in the first place. So like most new energy devices more energy is used in making the energy in the first place.

That's what it looks like to me anyway and I don't know much about these kind of things.

Lbeard

celtic_oz wrote: »

The measurements show that the catalyst gives substantially more energy than can be explained by ordinary chemical reactions. The results are very remarkable. What lies behind the extraordinary heat production can not be explained today.There has been speculation over whether there can be any form of nuclear transformation. However, this is highly questionable.

It's incredibly unlikely to be nuclear. The protons and neutrons in the nucleus are bound which a lot more energy than the electrons orbiting. When they're broken apart they release high energy energy photons/light......A lot of x-rays.

The energy would be in x-rays. That's where he should be getting his heat. But if they are X-rays then there is not enough shielding on the device, if you were in the room it would be exposed to possibly a lethal dose of x-ray radiation.

I don't believe it's a mini-nuclear power plant. I believe you'd need a permit for one of those things.

celtic_oz

Psstt! Want An E-Cat LENR Generator? For Free?

Flibbles

Complete shenannigans considering he refused to unplug the device to show a self sustaining reaction.

celtic_oz

Flibbles wrote: »

Complete shenannigans considering he refused to unplug the device to show a self sustaining reaction.

shouldn't make any difference as long as the input is measured accurately, and I'd imagine the 4 phds in the room were satisfied before they put their names to it.

Flibbles

celtic_oz wrote: »

shouldn't make any difference as long as the input is measured accurately, and I'd imagine the 4 phds in the room were satisfied before they put their names to it.

It's very easy to trick a multimeter into thinking there's no input. I'm not going to hold out much hope for this device until it's been fully inspected by external physicists and chemists to make sure that

A. The reaction is not a chemical reaction
B. It actually puts out more energy than takes in
C. It's viable as an energy source

So far, none of these have been proven.

IRWolfie-

The "Independent" scientists aren't really independent. They have been associated with the E-Cat for some time, just look through some news archives and you will see these names popping up, particularly Levi; If I recall, the University of Bologna had a monetary deal with Rossi which apparently fell through.

Calling a PDF, on the online repository arxiv, a paper makes it sound more credible than it is. Arxiv does not perform peer-review, the bar is very very low for being on arxiv, and intentionally so. They did not have direct access to the purported device, and Rossi controlled everything. They weren't trying to directly know what was going on.

Until people not associated with Rossi have direct access to the machine without Rossi hovering around this is all pointless.

After you watch enough scientists make fools of themselves, the "they are all serious academics with reputations to lose" argument wears thin. I can show you scientists that claim telepathy is real, claim that psychics can work etc etc.

celtic_oz

IRWolfie- wrote: »

The "Independent" scientists aren't really independent. They have been associated with the E-Cat for some time,

From a follow up Forbes article that deals with this question.

"An interesting member of the roster is Hanno Essen who, at one time, was deeply skeptical of Rossi’s invention as might be expected considering he was Chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society for three years (from 19 April 2008 to 2 April 2011)"

"I have the roster of the testers as far as I’ve been able to research them. Check out their publications, I find their pedigrees pretty impressive. While there are some oddities (Foschi and Tegnér seem to have little public presence) the rest appear to be more than qualified and to have much to lose (I got that right this time) if they were to be involved in a scam of some kind.

I find it hard to believe that Rossi could, somehow co-opt this diverse group into knowingly participating in a scam. This means that if the whole E-Cat thing is a fraud, the recent tests would have to have been engineered to hoodwink them. "

IRWolfie-

celtic_oz wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that Rossi could, somehow co-opt this diverse group into knowingly participating in a scam. This means that if the whole E-Cat thing is a fraud, the recent tests would have to have been engineered to hoodwink them. "

As already mentioned, it would not be particularly difficult to hoodwink them since they had no control, but I doubt that there was no monetary exchange (especially considering Rossi had promised Levi's university money in the past). Just because someone is not independent does not mean they know what is really going on behind the scenes, I would not say even Focardi knew that.

celtic_oz

No control.. so I guess more people fooled here

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/07/23/defkalion-demonstrates-lenr-live-right-now/

Flibbles

I would really love it if it turns out this isn't a farce, but I really cannot say, on any level, that it works. Not while he refuses to let anyone properly examine it.

Lbeard

Flibbles wrote: »

I would really love it if it turns out this isn't a farce, but I really cannot say, on any level, that it works. Not while he refuses to let anyone properly examine it.

I've figured out how it works.

He's using concentrated carbon dioxide, and maybe a little methane (Methane is 24 times more powerful at magicing energy out of nowhere than carbon dioxide - according to a UN report....written by a krank)

celtic_oz

The rights to Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat have been acquired by a US partner: Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat appears to be a new LLC set up by the CEO of Cherokee Investment Partners, Thomas Darden. Rossi had previously spoken about a mysterious American partner, but (in true Rossi fashion) had previously declined to say who that partner was — it’s now all but confirmed that Darden/Cherokee was the partner in question. Cherokee has previously worked in the energy sector, investing in solar power and waste-to-energy technology

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/175507-cold-fusion-tech-picked-up-by-major-us-partner-prepares-to-launch-in-the-american-and-chinese-energy-markets

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-01/15/cold-fusion-moves-into-mainstream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYrv-4Yl_v0

Flibbles

Almost a year on, and still not a shred of proof that it works.