Planning Permission Changes

newgroom

Hello all,

I'm not a total stranger to the building control/planning "game" in ireland and work in the industry but i've a question i can't seem to find a clear answer to. I have planning for a new build house in rural ireland. Since getting the planning (about 8 months ago) i've down sized floor area of the house but only slightly changing the aesthetics and design of the house externally. The reduction has reduced the house by about 50m2 so with in contribution fees to the council of approx. €18 per m2 €1,000 cheaper so well worthwhile following up on with planning department. They've told me i've to go back in for a full new application, but the planner i've spoken to says i can start construction under the old planning permission. the questions i have are the following:

1. Is there no option in the planning system to apply for "design change" under an existing permission and the contribution fees altered respectively without going through the full pp application process of notices, newspapers etc?
2. If i start under the original permission and then apply for the new, when they come out to site to inspect and they see it as started as the new design and will i therefore run the risk of deeming it retention and hold up the build?

Poor Uncle Tom

newgroom wrote: »

Hello all,

I'm not a total stranger to the building control/planning "game" in ireland and work in the industry but i've a question i can't seem to find a clear answer to. I have planning for a new build house in rural ireland. Since getting the planning (about 8 months ago) i've down sized floor area of the house but only slightly changing the aesthetics and design of the house externally. The reduction has reduced the house by about 50m2 so with in contribution fees to the council of approx. €18 per m2 €1,000 cheaper so well worthwhile following up on with planning department. They've told me i've to go back in for a full new application, but the planner i've spoken to says i can start construction under the old planning permission. the questions i have are the following:

[*]Is there no option in the planning system to apply for "design change" under an existing permission and the contribution fees altered respectively without going through the full pp application process of notices, newspapers etc?
[*]If i start under the original permission and then apply for the new, when they come out to site to inspect and they see it as started as the new design and will i therefore run the risk of deeming it retention and hold up the build?

If the planner has viewed your changes and deemed them material (needing a new planning application) then you will need to make an application for planning permission for a changed house design with reduced floor area and associated works. This means a new newspaper ad, planning fee, maps, et al. The fact that you are advertising it as a changed design means that you shouldn't have to go through the housing need and site suitability again (if they applied the first time around).

This is still a new planning application, though, so there is no way around the newspaper ad, site notice and mandatory time periods.

If your changed design has an altered footprint from the previous plan, then you can't start building the new design under the old planning permission. I'm sure the planner was trying to be helpful but that was bad advice if the footprints are different.

newgroom

Thank for the reply Uncle Tom. Ya I hear you. The footprint is very slightly changed so I'm not sure whether to just go or not because I've the bank and builder ready to go. One last question, when do you have to pay the contribution fee to the council? Not on submission of commencement notice?

muffler

newgroom wrote: »

One last question, when do you have to pay the contribution fee to the council? Not on submission of commencement notice?

Its normally before you commence work. Some/most councils will facilitate stage payments. You will need to read through your planning permission to see what it says.

For example Donegal Co. Council will allow the contributions to be paid over a couple of years. The following is an extract from a recent PP that was granted and you should find similar wording in yours

The total contribution shall be paid to the Council prior to commencement of the development unless the Council have agreed in writing beforehand to facilitate phased payment of the contributions in which event as part of any such agreement the Council may require the giving of security to ensure payment.

Gumbo

newgroom wrote: »

Thank for the reply Uncle Tom. Ya I hear you. The footprint is very slightly changed so I'm not sure whether to just go or not because I've the bank and builder ready to go. One last question, when do you have to pay the contribution fee to the council? Not on submission of commencement notice?

the lodgement of a commencement notice usually kick starts the process of the LA requesting fees/levies/bonds etc

Best thing to do is call them and arrange a plan that suits both of you.

Dromardabu

Hi Guys
I have a quick question in relation to planning. I have bought a site with full planning for a specific house but it didnt suit our needs. We then went through 2 rounds of planning changing the house several times. Anyway we got planning for one of the designs and began construction (base) having submitted a commemcment notice and paid half of the developmetn fees.
My question is if we wanted to revert back to the original planning (granted in 2009) and build that house, could we do it within planning laws / rules ? My summarised quesiton is - does the fact that we commemenced development on one planning application precude us form using a previous applicaiton on the same site. Apart from the obvious financial implications or such a decision i am wondering if we can rely on the old one if needs be. The reasons why we may want to do this are long and boring and i wont trot them out here but i was wondering if thats something we had in our options ?
Any advice would be appreciated.

sinnerboy

You have started works with a commencement notice which cites a planning permission "B" but now you want to build a house permitted by planning permission "A" ?

The worst thing you could do is just do it i.e. build "A" . Not because the authorities would come after you - they could do but in my opinion I don't think they would do . But you would be creating a certification difficulty for yourself.

The certifiers document relating to planning would have to reference "A" and the certificate relating to building control would have to reference "B" . That is IF your certifier would entertain doing so. ( I would not as I wish to remain working for as long as I can ) . But even if you obtained certification it may not satisfy your lenders for final drawdown . It would always remain an issue to delay or even completely frustrate any attempts to sell or even re mortgage the property.

If you simply submit a new commencement notice citing "B" now the authority would send it back stating , correctly , that regulations won't permit them to accept a commencement notice after works have started.

One thing you may wish to try . I have not seen this done before myself but it might be worth a shot. If you can provide convincing evidence to the LA that works have stopped now and you wish to re start them on "X" date with a new commencement notice date but citing a different planning reference. Might work.

Dromardabu

Thanks Sinnerboy, that is very helpful and thanks for taking the time to reply. I realise its not a straight forward case but i was investigating options and what the planning rules stipulate on it. I think i have more research to do on it and i need to speak to the planners too.

and so the struggle goes on . . . .

Thanks though for your comments. Much appreciated.

Dromardabu.