Road usage dwindling factors discussion

veryangryman

Just some thoughts based on reading of other threads and personal experience.

I think that a lower and lower percentage of regular car users will be doing long commutes journeys etc on the road.

Work wise you have everything from work from home to skype and lync. Same for social calls. More people text and call or facebook each other for better or worse. Finally the fact that fuels so expensive now in a time when money is tight. In fact I think beyond delivery of goods and services there are few necessary long journeys out there.

With the above in mind I think that any motorway building in the near future should be limited to say twenty mile radius of each city. Or at least prioritised that way. Linking cities has been great but who really does the cork to Belfast route etc now.

I of course know that countless examples can be given to counter my theories above but that's my opinion anyway. :-)

L1011

Long distance motorways were not built for commuting

Business travel has not been replaced by anything as yet either

veryangryman

MYOB wrote: »

Long distance motorways were not built for commuting

Business travel has not been replaced by anything as yet either

Some business travel has. Where I work anyway. Telepresence anyone?

Outkast_IRE

You still have a decent amount of people who need to come to the workplace and are willing to drive good distances to do so.

I know someone driving from Killorglin Co Kerry to cork city every single day for work.

This is about 90mins each way id say. They have been doing it for over 15 years.

L1011

Has had a minuscule impact and mostly on air travel

yer man!

MYOB wrote: »

Long distance motorways were not built for commuting

Business travel has not been replaced by anything as yet either

I wouldn't agree with that now, I worked in Ennis last year and about 90% of my colleagues commuted from Galway or Limerick and thanked god for the motorway.

veryangryman

I think the "Motorways aren't for commuting" opnion people have not commuted. The majority of traffic around (for example) the Maynooth-Dublin axis are commuters.

Like my original post said, I would like to see them being made for 20 mile radius from each city. Bypass places like Adare, Claregalway, Barna, Blessington with good style DC/Motorway for decent cost-benefit for commuters.

Aard

While technology undoubtedly reduces the need for some car-trips, there is also the counteracting phenomenon that the more roads that are built, the more traffic increases. Traffic will always fill the roadspace available.

antoobrien

Aard wrote: »

While technology undoubtedly reduces the need for some car-trips, there is also the counteracting phenomenon that the more roads that are built, the more traffic increases. Traffic will always fill the roadspace available.

Doesn't that fly directly in the face of the other argument around "building roads to nowhere" and "ghost motorways" that will never be filled like the M3?

Aard

antoobrien wrote: »

Doesn't that fly directly in the face of the other argument around "building roads to nowhere" and "ghost motorways" that will never be filled like the M3?

Yeah I guess it applies more to urban roads than roads going through open countryside. Plus, tolling is a great way to avoid roads filling up as much as they would otherwise. This doesn't apply to the M9 of course, which I always thought was overkill. "Roads to nowhere" are never a good idea.

NedNew2

A 32km radius is a silly idea.

Motorways are best served as inter urban.

veryangryman

NedNew2 wrote: »

A 32km radius is a silly idea.

Motorways are best served as inter urban.

Why? Just trying to understand your point of view. The longer the better yeah but bang for buck decreases significantly as you stretch it beyond commuting distance

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

I think the "Motorways aren't for commuting" opnion people have not commuted. The majority of traffic around (for example) the Maynooth-Dublin axis are commuters.

Maynooth to Dublin is not long distance.

Commuting within a radius that small should be focused towards public transport. The motorway network is required to ensure that our industrial and commercial sectors can actually compete, financially and time-wise.

veryangryman

MYOB wrote: »

Maynooth to Dublin is not long distance.

Commuting within a radius that small should be focused towards public transport. The motorway network is required to ensure that our industrial and commercial sectors can actually compete, financially and time-wise.

I didn't say its long distance. I said that most of its traffic is commuter based. My point is that as more jobs become easier to do, the need to travel large distances decreases. Naturally there are still service jobs and such that are exception to this. As for being competitive I don't think that a saving of twenty mins on an 80 mile route is going to bring the bang for buck thought of. Long distance projects bar the inter urbans which lead to Dublin I mean. Rest of country is too small and under populated to justify long distance motorway including arguably the M18. M17 should be built but only as it will benefit commuters. I can't see much long distance traffic that it benefits but again I don't see that as a problem as long distance traffic will continue to dwindle.

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

My point is that as more jobs become easier to do, the need to travel large distances decreases.

I'd say its the total opposite. People who actually need to do long distance travel are always going to need to do it, people who drive in to do a desk-bound job are not.

veryangryman wrote: »

As for being competitive I don't think that a saving of twenty mins on an 80 mile route is going to bring the bang for buck thought of.

Saving a quarter of the fuel is the issue, generally. And in many cases, the motorways/DCs built provided a saving of time far in excess of that.

JupiterKid

Commuting should be done as much as possible by public transport - obviously motorways have a role to play in facilitating car-based commuting and there is no doubt that motorway networks have allowed commuter belts to expand and development to leapfrog ever outward -as in the USA and, of course, here too in Ireland where Dublin and the regional cities have commuter zones far out of proportion to their size. The ability of IT to allow working form home has not had the impact on commuting to work patterns as some had imagined - people like the social aspects of working in an office environment.

Tighter planning regulation and development frameworks can help to curtail the growth of long-distance commuter traffic. A two hour commute each way every day is unsustainable on environmental, social and mental health grounds. It is no quality of life.

There is an additional factor that needs to be taken into account in having motorways for inter-urban long-distance traffic and that is the crucial one of safety. IMO the new motorways have reduced head-on collisions on the national primary system considerably. Safety has important economic and social benefits in addition to more commonly perceived economic aspects of road improvements such as time and fuel savings.

antoobrien

Aard wrote: »

This doesn't apply to the M9 of course, which I always thought was overkill. "Roads to nowhere" are never a good idea.

The M9 in my book is a bad example of overkill. Looking at the traffic counter figures there's more traffic using the new road than there ever was using the old -the only example I have been able to find with the new motorways.

The problem I have with a lot of opinions like empty roads and roads to nowhere is that they totally ignore the engineering reality that if a road is anywhere near capacity when it's built, it already is a design failure.

Irish and Proud

I use the Internet an awful lot and yet travel more than I ever did since acquiring the car. I hate bring stuck at home and like to get out a bit - I think that's only natural for people. I'm in Arklow ATM having travelled about 80 miles and about to head back.

AugustusMinimus

antoobrien wrote: »

The M9 in my book is a bad example of overkill. Looking at the traffic counter figures there's more traffic using the new road than there ever was using the old -the only example I have been able to find with the new motorways.

I'd imagine that in this case, the M9 has actually been a great success. It clearly shows that in the past, a lot of traffic would not have used the old N9 and instead would have used other regional roads.

Huge gains in safety, time savings and fuel efficiency.

Aard

antoobrien wrote: »

The M9 in my book is a bad example of overkill. Looking at the traffic counter figures there's more traffic using the new road than there ever was using the old -the only example I have been able to find with the new motorways.

Well in that case the M9 fits the theory of 'build it and they will come'.

antoobrien

Aard wrote: »

Well in that case the M9 fits the theory of 'build it and they will come'.

Which is another fundamentally flawed argument - WRC is potentially one of the most useful resources to Galway but is mismanaged to such an extent that it it borderline.

Do we have any information on the amount of rat running that was going on to avoid using certain parts of the N9 that could have been traffic bottlenecks?

It's interesting to take a look at statistics that suggest overall traffic is down by 10% but then you see examples like this and the N6 in Galway, where combined use of the old & new roads showed an apparent rise of approx 25% in "corridor use" one doesn't see "build it and they'll come", but rather traffic that is desperate to get off bad/slow roads.

Carawaystick

antoobrien wrote: »

Which is another fundamentally flawed argument - WRC is potentially one of the most useful resources to Galway but is mismanaged to such an extent that it it borderline.

A resource that is slower than the bus?
A resource that only allows traffic travel one direction at a time?
A resource that prevents private sector competing offering services?

Borderline? Borderline insane wasting money keeping it open.

antoobrien

Carawaystick wrote: »

Borderline? Borderline insane wasting money keeping it open.

Hmm, I missed the fact that there should be another few words at the end of that.

It should read borderline criminal mismanagement.

amaryt03

Hi everyone,
I am really stuck I am looking for the location on the local road L6162. I have looked all over the internet and can not find it anywhere. Any help please??

veryangryman

Here ya go, drinks on you!