Are Ireland's 17,600 Nigerian residents able to send home 468 M last year???

Montroseee

Disillusioned read this article: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

500 Million is quite a large loss to the Irish Economy. A staggering figure when you break it down to 26 k per person, including children.

The CSO also shows that nearly 40% of Nigerian were unemployed in 2011 so I wouldn't imagine it's a much better figure now - http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/.

I know these people left the cruelty and corruption of Nigeria to come here for asylum but these are tough times and the Irish people can't afford to be carrying the can for other countries people. How this amount of money is able to be sent home truly beggars belief. I know France had a problem with many non-nationals sending money home and introduced a tax on transferring money out for the country.


Before anyone says this a foreigner bashing thread, it is not. I have worked with several Nigerians in the past and have nothing but good to say for them and their work ethic. What I do have a problem with is these incredible figures and how this kind of money is being sent out of the country, I know it's an issue that has been raised in the Dail in recent times.


Edit: It seems some posters need it spelt out, how is it that this amount is able to be sent home? 40 % are unemployed, a few thousand of that 17.6 k would be children. If you are on the social it would be impossible to have anything near that amount to send home. You would have to have a very high paying job to have 26 k a year to send home.

Annasopra

I'm not racist but...

gallag

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not racist but...

Head in sand.

charlemont

Good on them, Fair play to them for sending money home, It saves the rest of us donating to Trocaíre etc..Its nice to see them remembering their roots and looking after their kin at home..

wolfpawnat

As opposed to what we Irish have been doing since the 1840's???? We can hardly fling dirt at anyone else for doing it when we have been doing it for 170 odd years. Hell there are Irish people abroad working at them moment sending money home from wherever they are!

Banjo String

If the money was worked for, earned legit, what's the problem?


I reckon we've a few in oz or USA sending a few Bob home each year too.

Cavehill Red

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not racist but...

Oh, you're like a broken record at this point.
You honestly don't think that it's even slightly worth investigating why fewer than 6,000 people (ie the 60% who are in employment and also aren't kids) are able to live in this economy and still remit c. 60,000 each back to Nigeria, AFTER tax?
Are they all CEOs or TDs? Bank directors? Rock stars?

Miss Lockhart

It's pretty pathetic to see the "smart" condescending comments attempt to shut down any discussion on this topic. Entirely predictable though.

These figures certainly warrant some further investigation. It's not a problem with people sending money home. It's a question of where did this money come from.

The figures just don't seem to add up, given the number of Nigerian residents of working age actually in employment.

Prodigious

charlemont wrote: »

Good on them, Fair play to them for sending money home, It saves the rest of us donating to Trocaíre etc..Its nice to see them remembering their roots and looking after their kin at home..

I have collected for concern numerous times and I swear to God not a single black individual put a penny in my bucket.

Cavehill Red

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Oh, you're like a broken record at this point.
You honestly don't think that it's even slightly worth investigating why fewer than 6,000 people (ie the 60% who are in employment and also aren't kids) are able to live in this economy and still remit c. 60,000 each back to Nigeria, AFTER tax?
Are they all CEOs or TDs? Bank directors? Rock stars?

Or maybe they're just living within their means? Plus you don't know how many jobs some of those people could be potentially working!

oppenheimer1

Montroseee wrote: »

Disillusioned read this article: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

500 Million is quite a large loss to the Irish Economy. A staggering figure when you break it down to 26 k per person, including children.

The CSO also shows that nearly 40% of Nigerian were unemployed in 2011 so I wouldn't imagine it's a much better figure now - http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/.

I know these people left the cruelty and corruption of Nigeria to come here for asylum but these are tough times and the Irish people can't afford to be carrying the can for other countries people. How this amount of money is able to be sent home truly beggars belief. I know France had a problem with many non-nationals sending money home and introduced a tax on transferring money out for the country.


Before anyone says this a foreigner bashing thread, it is not. I have worked with several Nigerians in the past and have nothing but good to say for them and their work ethic. What I do have a problem with is these incredible figures and how this kind of money is being sent out of the country, I know it's an issue that has been raised in the Dail in recent times.

Exactly why these figures should be questioned - because they don't stack up. Either the CSO has vastlyy underestimated the number of Nigerians here or the World bank has a really bad method for producing their estimates (one with a huge margin of error). I suspect its the latter.

A remittance tax would be really hard to implement as it would interfere with business payments among other things.

losthorizon

Actually Nigeria is not the biggest destination for money sent out of this country by foreign residents according to the World Bank as reported by the Irish Times but not reported by the Irish Independent for some reason.

Its actually Britain. But that would ruin a good story.

It would make sense as British citizens make up the biggest proportion of foreign people living in this country.

wolfpawnat

Am I the only one that sees these sorts of figures and articles and thinks to myself that the powers that be are busy getting us to focus on each other and not on the fact that there are far more dodgy things going on in this country? Or perhaps I need to get myself over to the conspiracy theories forum, but it sure as hell looks like it.

iramen

Montroseee wrote: »

Disillusioned read this article: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

500 Million is quite a large loss to the Irish Economy. A staggering figure when you break it down to 26 k per person, including children.

The CSO also shows that nearly 40% of Nigerian were unemployed in 2011 so I wouldn't imagine it's a much better figure now - http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/.

I know these people left the cruelty and corruption of Nigeria to come here for asylum but these are tough times and the Irish people can't afford to be carrying the can for other countries people. How this amount of money is able to be sent home truly beggars belief. I know France had a problem with many non-nationals sending money home and introduced a tax on transferring money out for the country.


Before anyone says this a foreigner bashing thread, it is not. I have worked with several Nigerians in the past and have nothing but good to say for them and their work ethic. What I do have a problem with is these incredible figures and how this kind of money is being sent out of the country, I know it's an issue that has been raised in the Dail in recent times.

If they ernd it de can do wath de wanth with it dont be jellas of them

Annasopra

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Oh, you're like a broken record at this point.
You honestly don't think that it's even slightly worth investigating why fewer than 6,000 people (ie the 60% who are in employment and also aren't kids) are able to live in this economy and still remit c. 60,000 each back to Nigeria, AFTER tax?
Are they all CEOs or TDs? Bank directors? Rock stars?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/have-you-heard-the-immigrants-ruined-britain-8609394.html

Cavehill Red

Deleted User wrote: »

Or maybe they're just living within their means? Plus you don't know how many jobs some of those people could be potentially working!

Let's go through it slowly. c. 60,000 a head per employed adult. Assuming 'living within their means' includes paying rent and bills, all taxes, and feeding and clothing themselves and children, that proposes an average pre-tax income of the average employed Nigerian in Ireland of well into six figures annually.
Again, I ask: are they all rock stars or Bank of Ireland directors? Senior Counsel Barristers? What? Because most of the working Nigerians I encounter are security guards, taxi drivers or run little corner shops selling second hand phones and computers, and I live in the ward with the biggest population of non-nationals in Ireland.

Miss Lockhart

losthorizon wrote: »

Actually Nigeria is not the biggest destination for money sent out of this country by foreign residents according to the World Bank as reported by the Irish Times but not reported by the Irish Independent for some reason.

Its actually Britain. But that would ruin a good story.

It would make sense as British citizens make up the biggest proportion of foreign people living in this country.

There are also far more British people in employment in Ireland. The issue is not the total amount being sent out of the country, it is the amount per person which seems unbelievable.

Is there a commensurate tax take from Nigerian workers in Ireland?

gallag

losthorizon wrote: »

Actually Nigeria is not the biggest destination for money sent out of this country by foreign residents according to the World Bank as reported by the Irish Times but not reported by the Irish Independent for some reason.

Its actually Britain. But that would ruin a good story.

It would make sense as British citizens make up the biggest proportion of foreign people living in this country.

But how much comes in from Britain? And how much comes in from Nigeria?

I wonder how much of this money is acutally sent to Nigeria by irish people being scamed? You know the old nigerian prince needing help to get money out of the country one?

wandatowell

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Hell there are Irish people abroad working at them moment sending money home from wherever they are!

That's the difference though, according to the above, 40% of the Nigerians are unemployed. So they are sending back their social welfare.
That's not fair imo.

Cut their social allowance and give them food stamps. Though I think that's a too straight forward solution to work tbh


p.s. I dont mean cut their social allowance totally, just a healthy snip

gallag

iramen wrote: »

If they ernd it de can do wath de wanth with it dont be jellas of them

You say whaaaa?

BattleCorp

wandatowell wrote: »

That's the difference though, according to the above, 40% of the Nigerians are unemployed. So they are sending back their social welfare.
That's not fair imo.

Cut their social allowance and give them food stamps. Though I think that's a too straight forward solution to work tbh

If they get that much money on Social Welfare, what the fcuk am I working for?

Cavehill Red

wandatowell wrote: »

That's the difference though, according to the above, 40% of the Nigerians are unemployed. So they are sending back their social welfare.
That's not fair imo.

Cut their social allowance and give them food stamps. Though I think that's a too straight forward solution to work tbh


p.s. I dont mean cut their social allowance totally, just a healthy snip

I don't imagine the bulk of this money is coming from social welfare benefits. I think this warrants a significant Revenue investigation into Nigerian-owned businesses in Ireland.

wolfpawnat

wandatowell wrote: »

That's the difference though, according to the above, 40% of the Nigerians are unemployed. So they are sending back their social welfare.
That's not fair imo.

Cut their social allowance and give them food stamps. Though I think that's a too straight forward solution to work tbh

I seldom see a Nigerian woman working, their place seems to be minding the children. From what I have seen anyway. But I have yet to meet an unemployed Nigerian man! Not saying they don't exist, just that I haven't personally seen one, and the few I know personally (not many, but 4-5) multi-job.

Montroseee

wolfpawnat wrote: »

As opposed to what we Irish have been doing since the 1840's???? We can hardly fling dirt at anyone else for doing it when we have been doing it for 170 odd years. Hell there are Irish people abroad working at them moment sending money home from wherever they are!

Did you read the article? If you did you must lack common sense. The issue is not with people sending money home, it is the sheer amount of it. I too live in an area with a lot of Nigerians. I find most of them are good people wanting a better life for themselves and their children. Take a look at that those figures though, there is something seriously wrong with it. Most of the Nigerians I know are sales assistants, restaurant workers, taxi drivers etc. How is someone in one of these positions able to send home tens of thousands? That is what you need to look at.

BrendaN_f

wandatowell wrote: »

That's the difference though, according to the above, 40% of the Nigerians are unemployed. So they are sending back their social welfare.
That's not fair imo.

Cut their social allowance and give them food stamps. Though I think that's a too straight forward solution to work tbh

targeting a single nationality instead of changing the system? no, that'll definitely go down well... oh and apparently nigerians are now getting ~200M in benefits a year... they've moved on from free prams i see :rolleyes:

Montroseee

BrendaN_f wrote: »

targeting a single nationality instead of changing the system? no, that'll definitely go down well... oh and apparently nigerians are now getting ~200M in benefits a year... they've moved on from free prams i see :rolleyes:

Nigerian's have the highest unemployment rate per nationality in the country, yet are able to send home the largest amounts per person by far. Do you not think that needs looking at?

wolfpawnat

Montroseee wrote: »

Did you read the article? If you did you must lack common sense. The issue is not with people sending money home, it is the sheer amount of it. I too live in an area with a lot of Nigerians. I find most of them are good people wanting a better life for themselves and their children. Take a look at that those figures though, there is something seriously wrong with it. Most of the Nigerians I know are sales assistants, restaurant workers, taxi drivers etc. How is someone in one of these positions able to send home tens of thousands? That is what you need to look at.

They multi-job a lot of the time, I am sure their incomes are higher than your usual low income job (which yes, they tend to work) as a result. I just wonder are these figures accurate.

I, like any other person here no doubt, would like to see if it is true, and if it is, how it is happening and is it legal, if not, then of course there should be consequences.

Zebra3

The figures are either totally wrong or there is a serious crime issue.

That's it in a nutshell.

Yamanoto

losthorizon wrote: »

Actually Nigeria is not the biggest destination for money sent out of this country by foreign residents according to the World Bank as reported by the Irish Times but not reported by the Irish Independent for some reason.

Its actually Britain. But that would ruin a good story.

Indo did report it, but that incongruous Nigerian stat is naturally the one that jumps out at you.

The largest amount of money leaving Ireland was to Britain, at over €529m in 2011. This was followed by Nigeria (€468m) and Poland at (€174m).

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

keelanj69

Clearly they sell a load of those gammy hair extensions on Moore Street.

the_syco

I'd be more interested in where the money is coming from. With the Irish banking system being crap, my bet is that the money is coming from abroad through shell companies, and then probably sent to some warlords.

losthorizon

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Oh, you're like a broken record at this point.
You honestly don't think that it's even slightly worth investigating why fewer than 6,000 people (ie the 60% who are in employment and also aren't kids) are able to live in this economy and still remit c. 60,000 each back to Nigeria, AFTER tax?
Are they all CEOs or TDs? Bank directors? Rock stars?

Source for 6000 figure please?

mikom

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Oh, you're like a broken record at this point.
You honestly don't think that it's even slightly worth investigating why fewer than 6,000 people (ie the 60% who are in employment and also aren't kids) are able to live in this economy and still remit c. 60,000 each back to Nigeria, AFTER tax?
Are they all CEOs or TDs? Bank directors? Rock stars?

Deposed princes going by my spambox.......

Montroseee

losthorizon wrote: »

Source for 6000 figure please?

40% of 17.6k is around 7 k. 17.6 k - 7k = 10.6k. Out of 17.6k, its not unrealistic that around a quarter of those are children, which brings the working population to around 6k.

BrendaN_f

Montroseee wrote: »

Nigerian's have the highest unemployment rate per nationality in the country, yet are able to send home the largest amounts per person by far. Do you not think that needs looking at?

sure it does. but suggesting a change in social welfare specific to nigerians, or that this money is coming from social welfare is just ridiculous

actuallylike

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not racist but...

Oh cop the fcuk on. Posted at 15:19, exactly a minute after the OP. Not enough time to read the post. Just saw the title and thought you'd get in quick with your snide little bullshít. "But wait, this is AH"...no excuse to imply someone's racist and to belittle their story especially when you hadn't even read it.

Cavehill Red

losthorizon wrote: »

Source for 6000 figure please?

More than a quarter of Nigerians in Ireland are kids, and hence not working. Source: http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/NON%20IRISH%20NATONALS%20LIVING%20IN%20IRELAND.pdf
That leaves c. 13,000 of which 40% are unemployed. That leaves 7,800 or so in paid work. We know that many of these are employed in visible low-income industries such as security or taxi-ing, so being generous, that leaves no more than 6,000 in fabulous jobs where they can afford to remit 60,000 euro per annum to Nigeria after paying their bills and all taxes.

The Barefoot Pizza Thief

gallag wrote: »

Head in sand.

Yeah, but's idealistic sand.

Montroseee

BrendaN_f wrote: »

sure it does. but suggesting a change in social welfare specific to nigerians, or that this money is coming from social welfare is just ridiculous

I know it is, I never suggested that. However, Shatter needs to tackle and investigate this issue urgently. Horrible to see when myself, my parents and many close friends are struggling hard with a depressing disposable income figure available to us.

Make It Happen 968

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

It's pretty pathetic to see the "smart" condescending comments attempt to shut down any discussion on this topic. Entirely predictable though.

These figures certainly warrant some further investigation. It's not a problem with people sending money home. It's a question of where did this money come from.

The figures just don't seem to add up, given the number of Nigerian residents of working age actually in employment.

Fully agree, but let's not point fingers, the OP has already i think made up his mind that Nigerians living here are fiddling the country. I dont see any evidence of that in the original article. I have no issue with immigrants coming here to work in the jobs that irish people have turned up their noses too, however the number of immigrants must be limited now that the Eastern Europeans are on the mass move.

the groutch

the problem is the availability of the likes of Western Union.
large sums of money easily transferred out of the country with zero or little accountability for where the money came from.
if I was to send the kind of money they send via paypal or via a bank account I'd probably be investigated for money laundering.

Miss Lockhart

Make It Happen 968 wrote: »

Fully agree, but let's not point fingers, the OP has already i think made up his mind that Nigerians living here are fiddling the country. I dont see any evidence of that in the original article. I have no issue with immigrants coming here to work in the jobs that irish people have turned up their noses too, however the number of immigrants must be limited now that the Eastern Europeans are on the mass move.

I disagree with most of what you say.

My only problem is with criminal behaviour. I just think these figures don't add up and indicate that it is likely that something illegal is going on.

Posters who aren't interested in finding out what's going on should simply state that or not bother posting. Posters who want to shut down discussion and cry racism are just pathetic.

losthorizon

Montroseee wrote: »

40% of 17.6k is around 7 k. 17.6 k - 7k = 10.6k. Out of 17.6k, its not unrealistic that around a quarter of those are children, which brings the working population to around 6k.

So you would have to do the same for say the British population which sends more money back and is bigger granted but has more people on pensions which Nigerians dont have. You cant just pick and choose and adjust data like that to suit an argument.

squod

Montroseee wrote: »

, .......Shatter needs to tackle and investigate this issue urgently. .......

He's not going to. This country is a targeted destination for traffickers, scammers and people genuinely trying to better their' lot generally. We left the door open. They came in.

Shatter says Ireland will not opt into EU directive as it is contrary to statutory position that asylum seekers shall not work

Shatner seems happy to outsource the Irish labour market from Lithuania, Poland or Bulgaria. But not Nigeria. No way hosé.

squod

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

My only problem is with criminal behaviour. I just think these figures don't add up and indicate that it is likely that something illegal is going on.

Likely they're paying back loans to people who sent them here in the first place. No chance of the gubberment taxing this revenue stream though. That might be sensible.

Montroseee

losthorizon wrote: »

So you would have to do the same for say the British population which sends more money back and is bigger granted but has more people on pensions which Nigerians dont have. You cant just pick and choose and adjust data like that to suit an argument.

There are many British men and women in highly paid positions in Ireland, the same cannot be said for Nigerians, really shouldn't really have to spell this out. In my College department for example there are 3 senior lecturers who are English. As far as I know, there are plenty of English surgeons and consultants working in Ireland etc. etc. I can take a bit of comfort knowing the Dail and Shatter are going to address this issue.

charlemont

Prodigious wrote: »

I have collected for concern numerous times and I swear to God not a single black individual put a penny in my bucket.

Cool, I reckon they know better than to donate as they probably know it won't change anything..

VONSHIRACH

I read in today's SINDO that crystal meth is gaining a foothold amongst drug addicts in Dublin, where there are supposedly 20,000 to 30,000 heroin addicts. The crystal meth originates in Africa and is distributed from some business premises acting as fronts for African drug dealers. A lot of large sums of money going to Nigeria surely can largely be attributed to criminal proceeds. There are, no doubt, many decent people remitting money to relatives in Nigeria, but that sum of money from 26,000 men, women and children in Ireland is not all clean.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/african-gangs-use-front-businesses-to-sell-meth-29278015.html

Make It Happen 968

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I disagree with most of what you say.

My only problem is with criminal behaviour. I just think these figures don't add up and indicate that it is likely that something illegal is going on.

Posters who aren't interested in finding out what's going on should simply state that or not bother posting. Posters who want to shut down discussion and cry racism are just pathetic.

Sending money home is not criminal behaviour, again like the OP you are jumping too conclusions without facts. This is the type of irish racism that would not be openly mentioned in public, but is conversed behind netted curtains whilst sipping Barrys tea.

The_Gatsby

SamHall wrote: »

If the money was worked for, earned legit, what's the problem?

Because that money would be better served going back into our own economy.

We need to try and encourage them to spend that money in our own economy so we can benefit from them being here. That's part of the reason Ireland is so lax on immigration laws.

SeanW

mikemac1 wrote: »

Lots of money in organized crime.

Posters will dismiss the Indo but there are lots of links out there, even their papers over there cover crime and wiring money.

Leftist pinhead wrote:

But ... but ... but ... you're a RACIST!!! Besides, your story wasn't carried in the Guardian so it must be false!

Make It Happen 968 wrote: »

Sending money home is not criminal behaviour, again like the OP you are jumping too conclusions without facts. This is the type of irish racism that would not be openly mentioned in public, but is conversed behind netted curtains whilst sipping Barrys tea.

That didn't take long ...