Deadlift progression

johnfaul

Hi lads,
I've come to a point with my deadlift that I would like to follow some sort of programme for it rather than put an extra 5kg on each week.
At the moment I've worked up in 5kg jumps from 120 to 170kg for 5 reps.
I have pulled 180kg for 1 and reckon I could max get to 180kg for 5 as I wasn't overly happy with the last 1/2 reps on the 170kg.
I have been thinking of
Wendler 531
Ed coan deadlift programme
Or using some sort of percentage rep scheme

I would prefer not to pull maximal loads weekly as I find it quite taxing,

Has anyone any opinion or recommendations for me?

I've been working out nearly 8 months now 85kg and don't use a belt just chalk.
Much thanks John

Brian?

Are you following a program now or maxing out every week?

johnfaul

Was doing starting strength with pullups and dips added since christmas.
Im plateauing on bench and pressing in general and Im thinking of starting an upper lower split next week,
My goal is a 200kg x5 deadlift for christmas

Brian?

johnfaul wrote: »

Was doing starting strength with pullups and dips added since christmas.
Im plateauing on bench and pressing in general and Im thinking of starting an upper lower split next week,
My goal is a 200kg x5 deadlift for christmas

Have you stalled at all?Did you enjoy starting strength?

I realise I have yet to offer anything productive, but clarity is important so bear with me.

johnfaul

I hurted my lower back overhead pressing a pathetic 45kg some time late February, its by far my worst exercise for some reason, at the time My best deadlift was 160kg for 3 missed the 5 reps.
My squat was 117.5kg 3x5 low bar.
I switched to a high bar squat and at the moment Im at 100kg 3x5 going well below parallel.

I took a couple of weeks off from barbell rows and deadlifts and started the deadlifts at 120kg adding 5kg each week and i pulled 170kg 1x5 my last deadlift workout.

Form wasn't great if Im honest on the last two reps, I do stop each rep on the floor and don't use a belt.

Starting strength was ok enjoyable well maybe not so much but i made good progress on it I feel its time to move onto something different.

I have no interest in being a powerlifter but I do have an interest in being strong if that makes sense.

deadlybuzzman

I did wendler for a couple of years and it served me well in terms of getting stronger but only in the 8-12 rep range, lower than that the volume with heavy weights so low that you have to start tweaking it to the point its not wendler anymore.
Plus I think you have outgrown it, IMO once you get up to BW x 2 its time for something else.
Personally Im doing this the last few months, its giving me a nice steady rock solid progression, Hanley posted it a while back:

70% 5x8
75% 3x8
80% 3x5
85% 3x3 - w/ a few reps extra on your last set only, if you have em
90% 3x3 - w/ a few reps extra on your last set only, if you have em
95% x3
Test
It needs a name, Hanley Method? The Revolution?!

Brian?

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

I did wendler for a couple of years and it served me well in terms of getting stronger but only in the 8-12 rep range, lower than that the volume with heavy weights so low that you have to start tweaking it to the point its not wendler anymore.
Plus I think you have outgrown it, IMO once you get up to BW x 2 its time for something else.
Personally Im doing this the last few months, its giving me a nice steady rock solid progression, Hanley posted it a while back:

70% 5x8
75% 3x8
80% 3x5
85% 3x3 - w/ a few reps extra on your last set only, if you have em
90% 3x3 - w/ a few reps extra on your last set only, if you have em
95% x3
Test
It needs a name, Hanley Method? The Revolution?!

Interesting progression. Are you doing a squat, bench and deadlift days? Are you working one lift more than the others.

Brian?

johnfaul wrote: »

I hurted my lower back overhead pressing a pathetic 45kg some time late February, its by far my worst exercise for some reason, at the time My best deadlift was 160kg for 3 missed the 5 reps.
My squat was 117.5kg 3x5 low bar.
I switched to a high bar squat and at the moment Im at 100kg 3x5 going well below parallel.

I took a couple of weeks off from barbell rows and deadlifts and started the deadlifts at 120kg adding 5kg each week and i pulled 170kg 1x5 my last deadlift workout.

Form wasn't great if Im honest on the last two reps, I do stop each rep on the floor and don't use a belt.

Starting strength was ok enjoyable well maybe not so much but i made good progress on it I feel its time to move onto something different.

I have no interest in being a powerlifter but I do have an interest in being strong if that makes sense.

Honestly, I don't see the point in changing tack if you're making good progress on your lifts. Are you squat and bench still progressing?

After I did SS, I did Bill Starrs intermediate 5x5 and liked it. Felt it was a logical progression from SS. Tough work though.

I experimented with west side as well but it never really got going for me. Injuries got in the way and I haven't really done much proper lifting lately.

LuckyLloyd

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Texas_Method

deadlybuzzman

Brian? wrote: »

Interesting progression. Are you doing a squat, bench and deadlift days? Are you working one lift more than the others.

Im doing it over 4 days- Mon squat, Tues bench, Thurs Dead, Fri military/PushPress

Pushpress aside everything else is coming along nicely, although I suspect my sheer weakness both in shoulders and also upper back is whats holding me back as even thats improved somewhat since I started rowing every second session and shrugs heavier than my deadlifts on deadlift day.
The thing is....week one is BY FAR the hardest, I call it hell week.

Hanley

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Im doing it over 4 days- Mon squat, Tues bench, Thurs Dead, Fri military/PushPress

Pushpress aside everything else is coming along nicely, although I suspect my sheer weakness both in shoulders and also upper back is whats holding me back as even thats improved somewhat since I started rowing every second session and shrugs heavier than my deadlifts on deadlift day.
The thing is....week one is BY FAR the hardest, I call it hell week.

Tell me more about how this is going!!!

johnfaul

Anyone have any experience with the coan programme?
Thinking of setting a goal of 205kg on it.
And just doing the deads and speed deads with out the assistance as they are in my programme anyway just want something to follow as far as deadlift progression goes

imnothim

coan works, but if you only half follow the coan deadlift programme then you are not doing the coan deadlift programme.

johnfaul

imnothim wrote: »

coan works, but if you only half follow the coan deadlift programme then you are not doing the coan deadlift programme.

I understand that I'm just looking for some structure as adding 5kg on every week is soon going to run dry

imnothim

well then follow coan, drop the assistance work from whatever other day you do and follow coan as its written. its a good proramme and worth doing right.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Tell me more about how this is going!!!

Would doing deads on Thursday not negatively impact oh press on Friday? Fatigued upper back and what not.

What upper back assistance is in there?

Feel free to not answer, I know people pay for programming from you these days.

Brian?

imnothim wrote: »

well then follow coan, drop the assistance work from whatever other day you do and follow coan as its written. its a good proramme and worth doing right.

There's something about speed deadlifts with 75% of your 1rm I find off putting. How speedy can they be?

imnothim

Brian? wrote: »

There's something about speed deadlifts with 75% of your 1rm I find off putting. How speedy can they be?

its not 75% every week, but i suppose you do them as fast as you can, while maintaining good tekk. i know this probably doesnt apply to you, but there's a bit of a misconception of how to speed deadlift. iv seen a few guys really rushing the set and bouncing between reps.
if you lift explosive - reset - lift explosive - reset - lift explosive, its not actually that bad.

Hanley

johnfaul wrote: »

Anyone have any experience with the coan programme?
Thinking of setting a goal of 205kg on it.
And just doing the deads and speed deads with out the assistance as they are in my programme anyway just want something to follow as far as deadlift progression goes

That's a terrible idea. Coan works because of the volume and intensity of the assistance work.

I'm going to try run Coan some day with my current DL max without putting in a goal max because aiming too high seems to be the main reason people burn out badly on it.

Brian? wrote: »

Would doing deads on Thursday not negatively impact oh press on Friday? Fatigued upper back and what not.

What upper back assistance is in there?

Feel free to not answer, I know people pay for programming from you these days.

I never wrote that progression to be used for "everything", but it can be.

That being said, who cares if overhead pressing suffers? you'll never push everything up equally and sacrificing your DL'n to make OH pressing better would be mental. There's nothing wrong with working hard using a sub optimal split.

Not sure if you're askign me about the upper back assistance or not, because I didn't write any.

Brian?

I never wrote that progression to be used for "everything", but it can be.

That being said, who cares if overhead pressing suffers? you'll never push everything up equally and sacrificing your DL'n to make OH pressing better would be mental. There's nothing wrong with working hard using a sub optimal split.

Not sure if you're askign me about the upper back assistance or not, because I didn't write any.

Fair enough

johnfaul

Hanley wrote: »

That's a terrible idea. Coan works because of the volume and intensity of the assistance work.

I'm going to try run Coan some day with my current DL max without putting in a goal max because aiming too high seems to be the main reason people burn out badly on it.

Thanks for the honesty.
Any suggestions my goal is 200kg x5 for Christmas is that too ambitious?
I pulled 170kg for 5 last week.
I will be doing a 4day upper lower split with heavy squats and deads on the same day and then a lighter higher rep squat and hamstring ( sldl or hamstring curls) workout later in the week

Hanley

Not too unrealistic, challenging tho.

johnfaul

Hanley wrote: »

Not too unrealistic, challenging tho.

Thanks it's just confusing how to implement the weekly workout as I don't want to pull near my max every week and burn out but still make progress if that makes sense

LuckyLloyd

johnfaul wrote: »

I understand that I'm just looking for some structure as adding 5kg on every week is soon going to run dry

But hasn't run dry yet?

If you've been doing Starting Strength and haven't had to rest a couple of times on all lifts you should probably stick with linear progression for the moment. When you've stalled out fully on it, look to switch to an intermediate program. I've seen the Texas Method work very well as a general transition template for people finishing up with SS.

Not saying that the advice in this thread is incorrect of course - but I'm not sure why you would be looking to overly complicate things if you're still making week on week gains? You seem to be worrying about something that hasn't happened yet - i.e. you haven't hit a max yet and be in danger of burnout because you haven't failed a working set yet!!

Scuba Ste

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But hasn't run dry yet?

If you've been doing Starting Strength and haven't had to rest a couple of times on all lifts you should probably stick with linear progression for the moment. When you've stalled out fully on it, look to switch to an intermediate program. I've seen the Texas Method work very well as a general transition template for people finishing up with SS.

Not saying that the advice in this thread is incorrect of course - but I'm not sure why you would be looking to overly complicate things if you're still making week on week gains? You seem to be worrying about something that hasn't happened yet - i.e. you haven't hit a max yet and be in danger of burnout because you haven't failed a working set yet!!

Maybe he's bored. SS gets awful boring after a while. It's essentially 4 exercises and power cleans which no-one can do right anyway.

SS is grand and linear progression is great and all but no one ever seems to know what to do when they finish it. Nothing wrong with having a look at what you can do when you're done following the word according to Rip.

deadlybuzzman

Hanley wrote: »

Tell me more about how this is going!!!

Its going nice and steady in the right direction cheers! Its funny I was doing a tweaked version of a programme I came across on here but I knew the rep range wasn't quite right then when I seen your post with that progression it clicked that that was for me.
I've squatted 180 a few weeks back for the 1st time ever, my deadlift is on track to being back to my best, bench and overhead too but I feel Ive alot left in the tank on deadlift especially before I plateau.
I get the feeling if I keep my training max conservative, the extra explosiveness I'd have from not grinding out reps really helps when testing. Would you find that too?

deadlybuzzman

Brian? wrote: »

Would doing deads on Thursday not negatively impact oh press on Friday? Fatigued upper back and what not.

What upper back assistance is in there?

Feel free to not answer, I know people pay for programming from you these days.

I got the progression from hanley but after that its my own doing so anything I do badly is my fault! I probably should do the OH stuff on a Monday but sod it squatting come first!
After doing deads everything else is going to suffer but nothings perfect, I do Row variations on squat and dead days and after deads I do heavy shrugs, only because I seen Andy Bolton do it and I figured why not. Turns out doing 15 shrugs with a weight 20kg more than you just deadlifted for 5 reps is pretty good at ensuring you dont bend like a banana when deadlifting.

LuckyLloyd

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Maybe he's bored. SS gets awful boring after a while. It's essentially 4 exercises and power cleans which no-one can do right anyway.

SS is grand and linear progression is great and all but no one ever seems to know what to do when they finish it. Nothing wrong with having a look at what you can do when you're done following the word according to Rip.

That's fair enough, but if his goal is a 200kg x 5 Deadlift then it's no harm pointing out that he's probably already working towards the goal in the most efficient manner as is!

johnfaul

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That's fair enough, but if his goal is a 200kg x 5 Deadlift then it's no harm pointing out that he's probably already working towards the goal in the most efficient manner as is!

I understand that linear progression is the fastest way, however the 170kg last week I broke down on form on the 4/5th rep . I'm not in any real hurry just steady progress without injury is what I'm looking for.
Why I want the change is because I have an interest in the body weight side of things and from what I can see is it will allow me to combine both weights and calisthenics.