Wallace V Shatter

Xenophile

I am on the side of Wallace. Better if Alan Shatter had spent his time explaining to us why Clare Daly needed to be handcuffed on detention!

Cody Pomeray

I dislike Mick Wallace as a political representative.

But as I said in politics thread, it is wrong for a Minister for Justice, who has no legitimate reason to be aware of a TD's Garda record, to bring that record into a live political debate.

Shatter is an unpopular figure within Government, and a media hunt will easily succeed in destroying him for something like this, if they are determined enough.

Axe Rake

Riveting tale old chap.

Anynama141

Wallace is a proven crook and a proven hypocrite. He makes Fianna Failure look good. It was a mistake for Shatter to reveal his latest hypocrisy though - he should just have leaked it to the press.

Not a notion ?

Chucken

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Not a notion ?

I think we're meant to use the force here

Cody Pomeray

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Not a notion ?

This is one of the main headlines in the news

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/shatter-insists-wallace-has-no-credibility-on-penalty-points-1.1397353

Wanderer2010

Both idiots. Wallace is a big stupid hypocrite who ploughs through what people are trying to say with not an ounce of irony (the man owed millions and never declared it and just looked stupid and dumbfounded when questioned on this PLUS he never resigned over it) and Shatter has to be one of the most unpopular ministers ever, what with closing every Garda station in the land and he even talked over what Pat Kenny said about Gardai looking after people they know ("News to me", said Shatter, you fcuking clown :mad:). Both as bad as each other. Plus, get a haircut Wallace you look a complete mess.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Is it to the death or just a 3 round thing?

Sergeant

Wallace is such a good-for-nothing crusty. He has even lost the support of the usual professional protestor set.

Anynama141

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Both idiots. Wallace is a big stupid hypocrite who ploughs through what people are trying to say with not an ounce of irony (the man owed millions and never declared it and just looked stupid and dumbfounded when questioned on this PLUS he never resigned over it) and Shatter has to be one of the most unpopular ministers ever, what with closing every Garda station in the land and he even talked over what Pat Kenny said about Gardai looking after people they know ("News to me", said Shatter, you fcuking clown :mad:). Both as bad as each other. Plus, get a haircut Wallace you look a complete mess.

I'm no fan of Shatter, but he's not on the same planet as the incompetent lying, thieving crook that Wallace is. I'm sure Shatter would love to be opening cop shops if FFailure didn't bankrupt us.

MadsL

Handcuffs should be mandatory with every police dealing with politicians. Nothing better for snapping politicians sphincters shut and keeping them in line than the thought of some nice press photos with them wearing the old steel bracelets.

Cody Pomeray

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

This is one of the main headlines in the news

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/shatter-insists-wallace-has-no-credibility-on-penalty-points-1.1397353

It's been a sunshine day today. Sunbathing and beers. I had no time for the doom and gloom news

Wanderer2010

Anynama141 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Shatter, but he's not on the same planet as the incompetent lying, thieving crook that Wallace is. I'm sure Shatter would love to be opening cop shops if FFailure didn't bankrupt us.

Closing cop shops isnt the answer, he hasnt the balls (like most of his fellow FG-Labour ers) to go after the big bankers, the consultants pay and all the other Dail-related waste of money that could be tackled before looking at Gardai. I very much doubt he lost the privilege of a 24 hr gaurd around his own home...

Anynama141

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Closing cop shops isnt the answer, he hasnt the balls (like most of his fellow FG-Labour ers) to go after the big bankers, the consultants pay and all the other Dail-related waste of money that could be tackled before looking at Gardai. I very much doubt he lost the privilege of a 24 hr gaurd around his own home...

Ah jaysus.

Another believer in the magical money tree. Who exactly are these 'big bankers'??

Banjo String

I'm no fan of Wallace, but I wouldn't even take a dump in shatters house if I was allowed.

SB2013

Was Wallace not part of the musketeers who released the personal information of thousands of people taken without authorisation from the Garda pulse system? But now he has a problem with his own information being accessed. Seems a bit hypocritical.

Banjo String

Anynama141 wrote: »

Ah jaysus.

Another believer in the magical money tree. Who exactly are these 'big bankers'??

Anynama missed all the headlines a few weeks back I presume?

Anynama141

SamHall wrote: »

I'm no fan of Wallace, but I wouldn't even take a dump in shatters house if I was allowed.

I'm baffled how you could think the tax fraudster/corrupt hypocrite Wallace is on a higher plane than Shatter. But each to their own.

Anynama141

SamHall wrote: »

Anynama missed all the headlines a few weeks back I presume?

No, I follow the news pretty closely. Can you point at what you are referring to?

Which 'bankers' are we supposed to pursue to fill a €10,000,000,000 deficit in public spending?

Banjo String

Anynama141 wrote: »

No, I follow the news pretty closely. Can you point at what you are referring to?

Which 'bankers' are we supposed to pursue to fill a €10,000,000,000 deficit in public spending?

You don't follow it that closely when you weren't aware of what the FG party had in their manifesto tbh.

I didn't see any poster refer to any imaginary sum of money you just conjured up there either, but each to their own.

Anynama141

SamHall wrote: »

You don't follow it that closely when you weren't aware of what the FG party had in their manifesto tbh.

I didn't see any poster refer to any imaginary sum of money you just conjured up there either, but each to their own.

Sorry, which 'bankers' are you talking about, which headlines, and how are we supposed to close a €10,00,000,000 deficit without tax hikes and spending cuts?

I'm trying to get behind the lazy sloganeering here.

Banjo String

Anynama141 wrote: »

Sorry, which 'bankers' are you talking about, which headlines, and how are we supposed to close a €10,00,000,000 deficit without tax hikes and spending cuts?

I'm trying to get behind the lazy sloganeering here.

I never mentioned any bankers, that wasn't my post.

But you asked which bankers that poster was referring to, it was all over the news a few weeks back about a certain banker, on an 800k plus salary, despite the bank he works for operating on a couple of billion euro loss per year.

Google is your friend tonight, it'll take you less than thirty seconds I'd imagine.

bleg

What does Clare Daly expect? She blows positive for alcohol the week after she criticises the whole police force and calls them corrupt.

Cody Pomeray

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Both as bad as each other.

Sorry but I have to disagree here.

There is a danger here of people dismissing what happened as political tit for tat.

Yes, Wallace defrauded you and me - the Gardaí were not involved, but he defrauded the taxpayer, which is reprehensible - agreed. Lets park that there for a moment.

Last night, on a 100% different matter, Alan Shatter tried to make political capital out of Mick Wallace's Garda record. He used his privileged position as Minister for Justice to tuck an individual's record up his sleeve, and then bring it into the debate to undermine that individual... do people recognize what a serious thing that is to do?

Is this how we want our Minister for Justice conducting himself?

This country is not some semi-autocratic Central European statelet. We just cannot have a Minister for Justice bringing people's private records into the public sphere to politically assassinate them.

Anynama141

SamHall wrote: »

I never mentioned any bankers, that wasn't my post.

But you asked which bankers that poster was referring to, it was all over the news a few weeks back about a certain banker, on an 800k plus salary, despite the bank he works for operating on a couple of billion euro loss per year.

Google is your friend tonight, it'll take you less than thirty seconds I'd imagine.

I'm well aware of the story.

I've no idea how we are supposed to 'go after' him in a manner that will save Garda Stations. He's employee of a private company and the government does not determine what he earns.

Is that it then? Is he the 'big banker' that we should somehow 'go after'? Even if we take his whole salary (which is presumably illegal and unconstitutional), it's still only another 400k odd towards saving our Garda stations.

Anynama141

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

This country is not some semi-autocratic Central European statelet. We just cannot have a Minister for Justice bringing people's private records into the public sphere to politically assassinate them.

I agree with you re. Shatter's revealing that info in his own capacity.

But if Wallace has survived tax fraud and everything else he's managed in his short career in politics, I don't think anyone believes pointing out another example of hypocrisy is likely to result in his 'assassination', more's the pity.

Him and Ming have done incalculable damage to the credibility of the other honest independents.

wicklowstevo

i vote for putting the two of them in a sack and beating the **** out of the sack and not being worried about which one got the worst of the beating., a la dara o briain,
a pair of self serving greasy gangsters

Anynama141

wicklowstevo wrote: »

i vote for putting the two of them in a sack and beating the **** out of the sack and not being worried about which one got the worst of the beating., a la dara o briain,
a pair of self serving greasy gangsters

Again, I'm no fan at all of Shatter - but he's committed no crimes and been linked to no corruption. I don't agree with a lot of his policy, but that's about the worst I can say about him. He's like Eamonn Ryan of the Greens, or Joan Collins of the ULA, or Mary Lou MacDonald of Sinn Fein.

Irish people are gas though. We lump in ordinary politicians with complete crooks, and label them the same. And we vote for people we KNOW are crooks because we think they will put a few bob in our pockets or do us some favours. And then we wonder why the country is bankrupt. Jesus wept.

Sergeant

SamHall wrote: »

I never mentioned any bankers, that wasn't my post.

But you asked which bankers that poster was referring to, it was all over the news a few weeks back about a certain banker, on an 800k plus salary, despite the bank he works for operating on a couple of billion euro loss per year.

Google is your friend tonight, it'll take you less than thirty seconds I'd imagine.

I propose we pay all 'bankers' a thruppence a week alongside basic lodgings and 3 square meals a day. That will attract the calibre of candidate we need to run organisations so systemic to the economic recovery of the country.

omahaid

I've defended Shatter in the past but this is dirty politics, I don't care for it.

woodoo

That scruffy VAT cheating buffoon from wexford should be turfed out on his ear at the next election.

Banjo String

Sergeant wrote: »

I propose we pay all 'bankers' a thruppence a week alongside basic lodgings and 3 square meals a day. That will attract the calibre of candidate we need to run organisations so systemic to the economic recovery of the country.

again, the banker post wasn't mine. But it's not like Boucher is a whizz kid banker ushered into solve that particular banks woes.

Boucher was in the driving seat up to, and during the meltdown.

That makes him part of the problem, not a solution to it.

Anynama141

SamHall wrote: »

again, the banker post wasn't mine. But it's not like Boucher is a whizz kid banker ushered into solve that particular banks woes.

Boucher was in the driving seat up to, and during the meltdown.

That makes him part of the problem, not a solution.

I agree - he should have been fired out on his ear. But he wasn't forced out by Fianna Failure, and by the time the new government came in, the country's shareholding of BOI was down to 15% or so, so they couldn't force him out if they wanted to.

Basically all of the management of the banks were shown to be mammoth bullsh!tters, and all should have been fired. But what private companies did during the bubble is really not helpful with regard to the cuts and tax rises we are faced with today to close our €10b deficit.

Cody Pomeray

Anynama141 wrote: »

I'm baffled how you could think the tax fraudster/corrupt hypocrite Wallace is on a higher plane than Shatter. But each to their own.

He's not on a higher plane, he's on a different plane.

Wallace's tax affairs are actually irrelevant to what Shatter did. Do you see that?

Anynama141

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

He's not on a higher plane, he's on a different plane.

Wallace's tax affairs are actually irrelevant to what Shatter did. Do you see that?

Yup. It's quite easy to see.

But one of them has shown himself to be a total disgrace and a crook. The other one made public some honest but privileged information about a disgrace and a crook. He should definitely not have - it was a stupid thing to do.

MadsL

woodoo wrote: »

That scruffy VAT cheating buffoon from wexford should will be turfed out on his ear at the next election.

FYP

Cody Pomeray

Anynama141 wrote: »

some honest but privileged information about a disgrace and a crook. He should definitely not have - it was a stupid thing to do.

The fact that Wallace is "a disgrace and a crook" is irrelevant.
The fact that the information is accurate is irrelevant.

Your persistence with these irrelevancies means I don't think you see the point at all, actually.

Seaneh

Shatter is an absolute idiot for using information he shouldn't have access to just to score points in a personal bitching match with another deputy.

****ing moron, I hope he gets a proper clip around the ear for this, hopefully he loses his ministry.

bgrizzley

i think wallace is scum, but what shatter did is as lowdown as you can go, something i wouldnt even expect from FF.
christ, this country is fcuked with the calibre of politician we have.

Anynama141

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The fact that Wallace is "a disgrace and a crook" is irrelevant.
The fact that the information is accurate is irrelevant.

Your persistence with these irrelevancies means I don't think you see the point at all, actually.

I notice you ignore the last bit of my post so that you could make it look like you had some sort of rhetorical victory.

Nice try, but that's cheating.

stretchdoe

Saw the interview last night.

Alan Shatter was very wrong in what he did, as has been pointed out: and he was also talking nonsense in regard to what he was actually there to debate.

Wallace, despite his bumbling, stumbling delivery was actually making a lot more sense, if you parsed what he was saying.

joebloggs32

I cringed when I saw Mick was there to debate the issue at hand. He is a self confessed tax cheat.
The dogs in the street know the craic with penalty points, and Shatter should have been easy pickings in this debate. However the bould Mick wouldn't beat a secondary student in a debate.
However, I was dumbfounded when Shatter stooped to the level he did. Is the minister for justice keeping tabs on every TD and Senator in the country like a fascist dictatorship would?
Mick was too thick to realise the gravity of what happened at the time, but it seems with some "mature recollection" he has now become outraged.

woodoo

Pomposity oozes from Alan Shatters every pore.

Xenophile

bleg wrote: »

What does Clare Daly expect? She blows positive for alcohol the week after she criticises the whole police force and calls them corrupt.

She never blew positive for alcohol. Let's not be intimidated by the Gardai, it's our job to keep them in their place otherwise they are no use to us.

TheLastMohican

Shatter is a jumped up, arrogant, selfish me feiner. He's giving Dublin 14 a bad name. Wallace is a chancer and I'm sure would admit it but try getting Shatter to admit making an error?

Anynama141

Xenophile wrote: »

She never blew positive for alcohol. Let's not be intimidated by the Gardai, it's our job to keep them in their place otherwise they are no use to us.

Indeed. But she failed to give a sample. The only issue I have is that she was handcuffed, which may not be normal procedure.

I agree re. keeping an eye on the cops - if they are not honest, they are useless.

Anynama141

TheLastMohican wrote: »

Shatter is a jumped up, arrogant, selfish me feiner.

Citation needed.

Cody Pomeray

Anynama141 wrote: »

I notice you ignore the last bit of my post so that you could make it look like you had some sort of rhetorical victory.

Nice try, but that's cheating.

But I already know you agree that Shatter shouldn't have released the information.

I know that because you said it.

It's there in black and white.

It's pretty standard not to raise an issue after it has been resolved or settled.

The point of my post not resolved was your persistence with irrelevant tags like crook and disgrace.

Wallace's tax dealings are an irrelevance to Shatter's behaviour last night, and therefore so are those tags.

Xenophile

woodoo wrote: »

That scruffy VAT cheating buffoon from wexford should be turfed out on his ear at the next election.

You maybe wish to know that it was the Fianna Fail vote that elected Mick Wallace, if nothing else he brings a bit of colour and "curiosity" to the Dail.

Anynama141

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Wallace's tax dealings are an irrelevance to Shatter's behaviour last night, and therefore so are those tags.

Indeed - in a black and white world, context is irrelevant.

I'd be quite happy if Shatter resigned tomorrow. Wallace should be locked up.