Return of booking deposit?

bunk

Just want to get other peoples opinions on this.

Due to circumstances out of our control we had to change our wedding date. As a result of this our band, who we paid a large deposit to were already booked for our new date. They then refused to return the deposit.

I am well aware that they are not obliged to do so, but this happened 10 months prior to the original booking date, it wasn't as if it was a last minute change. My opinion is that it is a bad reflection on the band and their management.

The original booking date has now passed and they refused to return even some of deposit, claiming that the band members were booked and had to be paid regardless. I will also point out that they were unable to secure a new booking for our cancelled date in the 10 months afterwards.

Again I am just looking for other peoples opinions, thanks.

marialouise

So the original date was around now, and you changed the date in July or August? (Sorry this is just me getting my head around it)... And they never did get another booking for the original date?
Hmm. That is a tricky one. You've probably realised you won't get it back, and this is because they might have turned down other work for that date, moved holidays or other committments around, and that's why deposits are taken.
However with 10 months to go it is a lot of notice, and I don't know if they're in fact more likely to hold on to it because they didn't get any work. It's really hard to know, maybe they did turn down other gigs and are happy to just have the deposit...

MagicMarker

So, over 10 months have passed, I think it's about time you accept that they aren't going to return the deposit.

AoifeCork

Oh dear, nope I'm afraid the band did what 99% of bands do (and should do!).

Gigs, let alone weddings, are hard to get in the music business. I'm presuming it was a regular wedding band. If they are popular they probably turned down other work to do your wedding. The deposit does not just protect the client, it allows serves as a guarantee that the band will have work and wages that night.

I understand if you had to change your wedding date but in this case, the band is 100% entitled to keep the deposit. Tough pill to swallow as I'm guessing the deposit was somewhere between 350 and 600 euro depending on the size of the band. I would be majorly annoyed myself. To say it reflects badly on the band is a a little unfair though. Musicians make the meat of their wages off weddings and corporate events. When something gets cancelled it may mean the difference between them paying their rent/mortgage that month or not! They did what any professional I know would do.

Senna

Do Irish people not understand the concept of deposits?

Band is 100% correct, you changed the agreement, not them.

ABajaninCork

So what's the beef? Booking deposits are non-refundable whatever the reason. You might get a percentage back as a gesture of goodwill, but the deposit can be kept.

Did you not read the T's & C's of the contract?

Toots

Perhaps if you had found someone who would take your date then they may have returned your deposit, however they're 100% correct to keep it. I know someone who had to postpone their wedding a year beforehand and they didn't get any deposits back.

Libby029

I have to say I think it is very bad form not to even return 50% of the deposit. I think it is the difference between been a good supplier and being a greedy one. They took money and never had to provide a service. I had to cancel my wedding previously with 9 months to go and every single one of my suppliers returned our deposit including the hotel.. the only exception was the photographer who returned 50% of the deposit. But now that my wedding is now back on I would use all these suppliers again without hesitation... i think it shows they are good business people.

clint_silver

Libby029 wrote: »

... I think it is the difference between been a good supplier and being a greedy one. They took money and never had to provide a service.... .

Read this.

Senna wrote: »

Do Irish people not understand the concept of deposits?

Libby029

You are obviously a supplier.. well if that is the case how come other suppliers will give back the deposit but not others..it is greediness.. pure and simple..

Osborne

The band is right to keep the deposit. Not sure why you feel entitled to 50% back. If suppliers gave back deposits, surely that would make them completely unnecessary.

clint_silver

Libby029 wrote: »

You are obviously a supplier.. well if that is the case how come other suppliers will give back the deposit but not others..it is greediness.. pure and simple..

Can you imagine a hotelier saying to his staff we dont have any money to pay you this week as we had a cancelled booking.
Can you not pay us out of the deposit they cry, worrying where the money will come to feed their children that week.
No, says the hotelier, we gave that back as we didn't want to seem greedy.

Senna

Libby029 wrote: »

You are obviously a supplier.. well if that is the case how come other suppliers will give back the deposit but not others..it is greediness.. pure and simple..

If your boss told you to take next week off without pay because he changed his mind, would you be annoyed at the lack of earnings? or would you think that's fine? Now imagine this could happen regularly, maybe every month, welcome to the life of band member, photographer, car provider etc. This is why suppliers take deposits.

The problem is the expectation of it being returned, many suppliers will return the deposit and that is up to them, but you have to understand that they do not have too. In your case every supplier returned the deposit, I'm guessing you were postponing the wedding rather than cancelling, so each supplier knew there would be a good chance you will rebook and so rather than just a deposit, they may eventually get full payment, which is what they want, that's call smart business and I do it when the situation occurs. Suppliers want you to have your wedding and pay them in full, they don't want a cancellation and to keep a deposit, but you have backed out of the agreement, not them.

If another couple cancel and if I think they are cancelling because they got it cheaper elsewhere or that the wedding wont ever be going ahead, then the deposit wont be refunded (75% of the time, there are always exceptions).

Don't pay a deposit on a perishable service (if I don't have a booking for that day, then I can never resell that date, its simply lost earning) and expect it to be returned, if it is returned, great, but there is no obligation.

Addle

Did you not have insurance to cover you OP?

clint_silver

Senna wrote: »

........
Don't pay a deposit on a perishable service (if I don't have a booking for that day, then I can never resell that date, its simply lost earning) and expect it to be returned, if it is returned, great, but there is no obligation.

This is it in a nutshell and I think this is the point that libby is missing who seems to be looking on the kept deposit as extra cash for doing nothing while its actually compensation for lost earnings.
I cant see any problem giving back a deposit if another booking came in as the earnings are no longer lost and theres no reason to hold the deposit

tatabubbly

Thats why I am getting insurance asap when I get married.. One band I know didnt turn up at my friends wedding and got away with €2000. Works both ways when a supplier doesnt live up to their side of the bargain

Libby029

I can understand a supplier needs the deposit as security so that a couple doesn't keep swapping and changing their minds, and messing people around. And I do completely see ur points, but my feeling on it is, the OP gave 10 months notice, not a week, month, six months.. it is almost the bones of a year.. now I know certain bands can be booked up well in advance of a year, but I think she had given substantial notice and as a gesture of goodwill they should have returned some of the deposit as she has said it was a substantial deposit. Word of mouth is a massive bonus for suppliers, I have seen it on numerous wedding websites, suppliers businesses growing in massive demand just from word of mouth on forums from fellow brides.
So for example in this OP's case do you think she would now recommend this band to any other brides.. no she won't.. because they didn't have any lee-way on their T&C's compared to a band who would have perhaps returned some if not all of the deposit.. if it was me I would be singing their praises. Now more than ever couples are relying on reviews of all suppliers, be it reviews online, friends experiences etc, in deciding the suppliers for their weddings. So I think for the bands best interest I think they should have thought through exactly how it could affect future bookings for them, and I don't mean that as the bride being slanderous on online forums, but just speaking of her experiences to friends, family etc. Word can spread very quickly.

clint_silver

tatabubbly wrote: »

Thats why I am getting insurance asap when I get married.. One band I know didnt turn up at my friends wedding and got away with €2000. Works both ways when a supplier doesnt live up to their side of the bargain

This means the band were paid in full before the night.
I'm doing this a long long time. I've never ever heard of a band being paid before the night, never. Confused at that.
I've heard of bands not turning up but very rare and in any cases it was a genuine excuse like a broken down van or a double booking which shouldn't happen but when it does its genuine and any deposit would have been paid back.
What you're saying is a band were paid in full and still didn't turn up and didn't hand back the money.

Name the band. Outline what legal redress was sought if they didn't give back the money.

BizzyC

Libby029 wrote: »

I can understand a supplier needs the deposit as security so that a couple doesn't keep swapping and changing their minds, and messing people around. And I do completely see ur points, but my feeling on it is, the OP gave 10 months notice, not a week, month, six months.. it is almost the bones of a year.. now I know certain bands can be booked up well in advance of a year, but I think she had given substantial notice and as a gesture of goodwill they should have returned some of the deposit as she has said it was a substantial deposit. Word of mouth is a massive bonus for suppliers, I have seen it on numerous wedding websites, suppliers businesses growing in massive demand just from word of mouth on forums from fellow brides.
So for example in this OP's case do you think she would now recommend this band to any other brides.. no she won't.. because they didn't have any lee-way on their T&C's compared to a band who would have perhaps returned some if not all of the deposit.. if it was me I would be singing their praises. Now more than ever couples are relying on reviews of all suppliers, be it reviews online, friends experiences etc, in deciding the suppliers for their weddings. So I think for the bands best interest I think they should have thought through exactly how it could affect future bookings for them, and I don't mean that as the bride being slanderous on online forums, but just speaking of her experiences to friends, family etc. Word can spread very quickly.

It's all well and good for a supplier like a hotel or the likes to hand back a deposit, but a band can't always afford to.

Even in a small band with 4 or 5 members, the deposit will only give each member €100-€200. Those people have bills to pay and cant necessarily afford to dip their hands back into their own pockets to refund a deposit.

Gatica

I agree that if the band had the opportunity to take another booking, it would be prudent good business to refund some of the deposit. but why is there an assumption that the band did not try to resell that date? Maybe if they did get another booking for it they'd have given back some of the deposit? You don't know that...
Having 10 months to rebook is no guarantee that that would happen. The band doesn't look for bookings for dates, they're usually requested for available dates by couples. Imagine the band calling couples asking them to have a wedding on a particular day so that they're booked, that would be ludicrous?! Some bands aren't as well known as others and may not have an opportunity to get booked as easily as another.
Unfortunately if a couple cancels, as pointed out, they've still to pay their bills, etc... in addition they likely did not get any more income for that night, i.e. they lost the rest of the potential income for that night. So they're worse off, not better off because of the cancellation.

clint_silver wrote: »

This means the band were paid in full before the night.
I'm doing this a long long time. I've never ever heard of a band being paid before the night, never.

We paid the band in full before the wedding. It was at my request though. I didn't want to worry about cash on the night and if I had to write several cheques, one for each band member, it was just as easy for me to transfer the money to their accounts, which is what we did. I trusted them though
We had "The Good Guys". They came on time, played well and were worth every penny!

Senna

Libby029 wrote: »

I can understand a supplier needs the deposit as security so that a couple doesn't keep swapping and changing their minds, and messing people around. And I do completely see ur points, but my feeling on it is, the OP gave 10 months notice, not a week, month, six months.. it is almost the bones of a year.. now I know certain bands can be booked up well in advance of a year, but I think she had given substantial notice and as a gesture of goodwill they should have returned some of the deposit as she has said it was a substantial deposit. Word of mouth is a massive bonus for suppliers, I have seen it on numerous wedding websites, suppliers businesses growing in massive demand just from word of mouth on forums from fellow brides.
So for example in this OP's case do you think she would now recommend this band to any other brides.. no she won't.. because they didn't have any lee-way on their T&C's compared to a band who would have perhaps returned some if not all of the deposit.. if it was me I would be singing their praises. Now more than ever couples are relying on reviews of all suppliers, be it reviews online, friends experiences etc, in deciding the suppliers for their weddings. So I think for the bands best interest I think they should have thought through exactly how it could affect future bookings for them, and I don't mean that as the bride being slanderous on online forums, but just speaking of her experiences to friends, family etc. Word can spread very quickly.

The performance of a supplier in delivering their service is much more important. If I wanted to book a band and was asking for recommendations, I would be listening to the Brides that booked them and had them play at their wedding, not from brides who may have a bias for/against them without even having them play at their wedding. I understand how a deposit works and if I'm booking a band, I'll pick the best performing band possible, not the one who will return my deposit if I cancel.

As for the 10 month lead-in time, that is very short in wedding terms, and bands are regularly one of the first suppliers booked. Unless it was a prime date (August bank holiday, NYE etc) or the band was a very very busy band, I would doubt most bands would be confident in picking up a wedding with a 10 month lead-in. They may have also had inquires about that date before the cancellation, which would make it even more frustrating for the band.