Caveman diet for a Veggie

funkey_monkey

Hi,

I've joined a fitness class at my gym where it is partly diet and partly exercise. One of the things they ask us to do is to stick by a certain food list. Basically, it is a Caveman diet - you can eat it if it:

1. It had a head
2. It grew out of the ground

Now, I'm a special type of veggie - can't eat a lot of protein (P K U) and this diet is causing me problems.

I am a really poor cook, so making meals has always been a problem for me. The fact that rice and pasta are out is a bad thing for me, as they were my staples.

Add to this that I don't have much storage space in the kitchen in the house where I rent a room and you will see that I've got some problems.

What I'd like are some ideas for evening meals (dinner) which require some items which can then be used to cook different things over the week.

Sweet potato is in, but I've only ever boiled it into mash or chipped it in the oven. Getting bored already.

I'd really appreciate some recipe suggestions or links to sites which could help me as so far I've not been able to manage the diet and apparently it is 80% of the effort


Thanks.

Zombienosh

I eat a lot of beans, peas, lentils, etc. also start using Quinoa, its an awesome complete protein.

funkey_monkey

Zombienosh wrote: »

I eat a lot of beans, peas, lentils, etc. also start using Quinoa, its an awesome complete protein.

Thanks, however I'm on a low protein diet so I can't eat much of these foods

Slydice

Dotcomdolly linked to this food list on the primal thread:
http://whole9life.com/book/ISWF-Vegetarian-Shopping-List.pdf

Some ideas of good fruits/veggies in there.

Here's the post that Dotcomdolly posted:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83114725#post83114725

I thought you needed protein for muscle building and maintenance. Also, how are you planning on getting calcium?

Sephya

Zombienosh wrote: »

its an awesome complete protein.

fyi, there is no such thing. protein foods are no longer described as being "complete proteins" or "incomplete proteins."

funkey_monkey

Slydice wrote: »

Dotcomdolly linked to this food list on the primal thread:
http://whole9life.com/book/ISWF-Vegetarian-Shopping-List.pdf

Some ideas of good fruits/veggies in there.

Here's the post that Dotcomdolly posted:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83114725#post83114725

I thought you needed protein for muscle building and maintenance. Also, how are you planning on getting calcium?

Thanks, I'd seen that list before, but forgotten about it. When I say low protein, it is low in natural protein. I supplement with synthetic protein from pharmasist(sp?).

The supplements also contain all the trace vitamins and minerals that I require. My blood gets analysed regularly for these so my vit/min uptake is prbably as good if not better than most peoples

hardCopy

I've read your other PKU diet thread and to be honest the caveman diet seems fairly pointless if you're trying to restrict protein intake. Most paleo/caveman diets try to maximise protein and restrict carbs.

Have you met with a dietician at all?

The Caveman

I could tell you my diet, but, then, well, everybody will want it :cool:

Sangre

Focus on the exercise protion of the class and leave the diet details to your dietician.

runawaybishop

Sangre wrote: »

Focus on the exercise protion of the class and leave the diet details to your dietician.

He has spoke to his dietician - he's on a low protein diet due to PKU and gets his protein mainly from sources other than food, the guy is asking for help with recipes that will give him some variety..

hardCopy

runawaybishop wrote: »

He has spoke to his dietician - he's on a low protein diet due to PKU and gets his protein mainly from sources other than food, the guy is asking for help with recipes that will give him some variety..

He's asking for advice on how to follow a diet prescribed by a PT who probably has no understanding of PKU.

My advice would be to follow the PT's advice on lifting and Dietitian's advice on eating. Make sure the dietitian knows that you work out and are struggling to put on weight, they may be able to up your supplements, and there are plenty of high calorie foods that are low in protein.

runawaybishop

hardCopy wrote: »

He's asking for advice on how to follow a diet prescribed by a PT who probably has no understanding of PKU.

My advice would be to follow the PT's advice on lifting and Dietitian's advice on eating. Make sure the dietitian knows that you work out and are struggling to put on weight, they may be able to up your supplements, and there are plenty of high calorie foods that are low in protein.

Maybe i'm incorrect in assuming this, but he has his protein sources sorted and so is looking for ideas on his carbs and fats. I don't like assuming though, so i should probably wait for the OP to respond

funkey_monkey

Okay, I think I better step in here and clarify the situation.

I've spoken to my dietition (hospital based senior Deitition) a number of months ago when I started looking at this. We came to the agreement that I could take a certain amount of protein. I can't remember the exact amount she said at the time - I'll post it up when I get home to re-read the letter.

So, my protein intake is sorted.

This leaves fats and carbs. Whilst discussing this on another thread on here, I was trying to follow 50% carbs, 25% protein & 25% fats. However, my protein intake screws this a bit.

I've taken my calorie intake from http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/
and am trying to stay as close to my recommended intake as possible.

In terms of fats and carbs, I am trying to stay as close to what the PT is asking by eating, where possible, foods that are 100% natural - grown or animal based.

This has lead to this thread where I've asked for some recipe ideas or good sites where I can get some suggestions for meals - primarily evening meals - dinner.


Hope that clears things up a bit?

hardCopy

My Bad, have a look at the PDF Slydice posted so

blatantrereg

The term complete protein has gone out of fashion alright, but I don't see a problem with using it unless you're writing for academic/magazine publication or the like. It means "has a good profile of amino acids", and expresses that pretty clearly I think.

Personally I think the caveman/paleo diet is a fad. Like Atkins and Low GI etc, it is effective because it rules out refined carbohydrates. However beyond that I would seriously question it having much truth in it. Processed food is not bad by definition. Tempeh is usually considered superior to edamame beans for example.

These fads often take root in fitness clubs and the like. I would strongly agree you would be better off listening to your dietician and disregarding your trainer when it comes to food, particularly if you have a medical condition which effects how you should eat.

funkey_monkey

I am - sort of ingoring the PT, but am still trying to clean up my diet and hopefully as a result see better gains in the gym. I do train, maybe too inefficiently, but I am hoping this course will help me get better in terms of time wasted in the gym and better routine planning. Improving the diet I hope will allow the gains I want. Hence the request for meal ideas that might suit me.

Danny_Lennon

blatantrereg wrote: »

Personally I think the caveman/paleo diet is a fad.

Perhaps the terms "caveman" and "paleo diet" give this unfortunate impression alright.

I don't think it's correct to say "our ancestors ate this way, it's how we evolved so we can't eat anything else". It says nothing about nutritional science.

However, if we DO consider the science, this way of eating still ends up to be pretty much better than any other set of guidelines. And that includes the government healthy eating guidelines that many dietitians are still following.

It does WAY more than limit refined carbohydrate consumption.

Paleo is not a fad. At least the dietary guidelines it proposes aren't. High quality nutrient-dense foods and elimination of the most problematic components of the modern day food chain. I don't see the problem?

Potentially the explanation some people give as to why it works is a bit off and it being popularized in the gym but that does nothing that warrants it being labelled a fad.

blatantrereg wrote: »

Processed food is not bad by definition.

It is a big red flag though that it's probably not going to be the best.

blatantrereg wrote: »

These fads often take root in fitness clubs and the like. I would strongly agree you would be better off listening to your dietician and disregarding your trainer when it comes to food, particularly if you have a medical condition which effects how you should eat.

I really wish this were true. Don't get me wrong there are some great dieticians out there and I'm not trying to tell people to ignore medical advice... BUT for a significant amount of the population I would have more faith in them eating better after walking into a CrossFit gym or the like, rather than coming out of a GP's office.

As I say I wish it wasn't so but unfortunately that's where we are right now.

The OP's situation is slightly different though considering the PKU diagnosis. The low-protein diet is obviously vital here.


@OP: If your looking for low protein meals made of natural foods just go with a simple template of; a very small serving of meat/eggs, lots of veggies, decent amount of fat (in the form of coconut oil, olive oil, avocado) and maybe a handful nuts (as long as they fit in with protein requirements). Repeat for each meal, just rotate the exact foods. Then throw in some white or sweet potatoes, fruit, etc. when your training hard.

blatantrereg

A GP is a generalist by definition. A dietician specialises in diet. A personal trainer specialises in physical fitness and does not usually have any medical qualification relating to diet.

It is definitely a better idea to follow the advice of the dietician rather than either of the other two. With a medical condition that effects what you should eat this is significantly more important. Medical conditions can rule out foods that would generally be considered ideal, and of the three roles I mentioned above, the personal trainer is the least likely to know about that.

I'm sceptical about things I've heard about paleo, such as the way it minimises grains, and the focus on meat. My personal experience and ideology make me know without a doubt such a diet wouldn't suit me personally. Like the OP I'm a vegetarian. Before I switched to vegetarianism I ate quite a bit of meat and animal protein, and my experienced frequent stomach upset, despite following a healthy, high-fibre diet. Since switching to a vegetarian diet over 18 months ago, I never experience the same thing, even if I don't eat well over any particular few days.

William C. Roberts is one of the most esteemed (if not the most esteemed) cardiologist in the world. He has presented evidence that the only animals that develop heart disease are herbivores that consume animal foods. His conclusion is that humans are herbivores. There is considerable other evidence supporting the same notion. You might look it up if you are interested. This is all very much at odds with the paleo diet.

This subject has been debated to death really on a recent enough thread on this forum though, and I'm aware that mentioning it here risks steering this thread off-topic. I'll just say that a number of posters strongly disagreed with me, and that the debate has already been done enough, without that much in the way of mutual agreement being reached. It can be found on this forum if you are interested in it. I don't want to get into it again as it was grating badly by the end, and it would also just derail this thread.

Danny_Lennon

blatantrereg wrote: »

I'm sceptical about things I've heard about paleo, such as the way it minimises grains, and the focus on meat. My personal experience and ideology make me know without a doubt such a diet wouldn't suit me personally. Like the OP I'm a vegetarian. Before I switched to vegetarianism I ate quite a bit of meat and animal protein, and my experienced frequent stomach upset, despite following a healthy, high-fibre diet. Since switching to a vegetarian diet over 18 months ago, I never experience the same thing, even if I don't eat well over any particular few days.

William C. Roberts is one of the most esteemed (if not the most esteemed) cardiologist in the world. He has presented evidence that the only animals that develop heart disease are herbivores that consume animal foods. His conclusion is that humans are herbivores. There is considerable other evidence supporting the same notion. You might look it up if you are interested. This is all very much at odds with the paleo diet.

Fair enough, seeing as the topic is in another thread I won't try and derail this one.

I will add a couple of things though.

I'm don't doubt that switching vegetarian did you well. It focuses on consuming lots of fresh, quality fruit, veg, nuts, etc. A million miles better than what the standard person eats.

That said, if you want to compare it to a paleo diet, it is unfair to base your opinion on the fact you felt worse while you were eating meat. That could have been for a number of reasons.

If we just consider what it actually means to eat "paleo", it is basically a set of guidelines that encourage nutrient-dense, whole foods. The food quality cannot be disputed.

Saying that, do some individuals do better on lower meat intakes? Sure. Do others do well on vast amounts of meat? Yes as well.

But thats the thing with this whole paleo movement, there is no one set diet. Just some principles that allow better food choices.

I am not strictly paleo myself. I think including things like butter and whey protein are probably a good idea. But for the most part, if someone told me they were "paleo" then I'd think 'yeah, you're probably better off thatn 99% of the population nutrition wise'.

It's great that you feel good with vegetarian eating. If you are in good health and feel good on it then go for it. However, the evidence is pretty clear we are not herbivores. But as you say, lets leave that for another thread!

Orla K

I want to add two things

First to blatantrereg, cats can get heart disease and high cholesterol

Second to the op, have a look into bone broths, I have heard it can lower the protein requirements in healthy people, I don't know if it's true or not and I don't know the effect it would have on you if any. Also your best bet is lots of vegetables cooked in fat. There is a guy out there somewhere doing a veggie paleo diet quite successfully, sadly I don't remember his name.

That might have been more than two things.