DOE Test Fail- Engine light

Rippy

I have a 08 Transit van that just failed it's test on the orange engine MIL light being lit . Diagnostics has shown that the fault is with the EGR valve. The van runs perfectly and emissions / smoke test is fine . ( valve seized shut , tried freeing it off , didn't work )
Ford want €500 for a new one fitted:eek:
Apparently there is no way of clearing the fault without putting in a new valve.
Anyway out of this one? van is roadworthy and with clean emissions , why can't it be given a pass?

jimgoose

Unfortunately a lit MIL is a Fail straightaway, regardless of the technicalities. It does mean that the NOx emissions aren't being dealt with properly, mind. She'll drive away fine with that thing stuck shut, as you probably know. You might be able to clear the MIL with a cheap-and-cheerful OBD-II scanner. They'll usually take a few "drive cycles" before coming on again.

Nissan doctor

jimgoose wrote: »

Unfortunately a lit MIL is a Fail straightaway, regardless of the technicalities. It does mean that the NOx emissions aren't being dealt with properly, mind. She'll drive away fine with that thing stuck shut, as you probably know. You might be able to clear the MIL with a cheap-and-cheerful OBD-II scanner. They'll usually take a few "drive cycles" before coming on again.

If the EGR has a permanent fault with its signal to the ECU then the light will return straight away.

Eric Cartman

have an EGR delete done on the van, will come out cheaper than 500 id imagine and the light should go.

derry

Whats to stop you lifting the dash board replacing the led or bulb with old broken bulb or led that doesn't light up and go back and do test again how would they know .
Just wondering thats all

Derry

The Pontiac

I clean the EGR on my car, just routine. It's a simple job.

Even if you need a new EGR valve, then it shouldn't cost that much. Not sure what model transit you have, but they're about £110 new. Just find the right one for that model and do it yourself. Take about an hour. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Transit-tdci-EGR-Valve-1480560-/121107886791?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3ATransit&hash=item1c3297b2c7

Nissan doctor

derry wrote: »

Whats to stop you lifting the dash board replacing the led or bulb with old broken bulb or led that doesn't light up and go back and do test again how would they know .
Just wondering thats all

Derry

Because they will also fail if the light doesn't come on and go off on start up as it should.

jimgoose

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If the EGR has a permanent fault with its signal to the ECU then the light will return straight away.

Mmm. Maybe - the I/M modules, including EGR, usually take a while to get their act together, though.

Nissan doctor

jimgoose wrote: »

Mmm. Maybe - the I/M modules, including EGR, usually take a while to get their act together, though.

They need to complete drive cycles to register if the signal from the various modules are within expected ranges or not.

However if a module is giving no signal at all, it will register an immediate fault.

jimgoose

Nissan doctor wrote: »

They need to complete drive cycles to register if the signal from the various modules are within expected ranges or not.

However if a module is giving no signal at all, it will register an immediate fault.

Oh I know, but it's worth a go!

Rippy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

have an EGR delete done on the van, will come out cheaper than 500 id imagine and the light should go.

Unfortunately after a lot of googling and ringing a few re-mappers, they all say its not possible to delete it from this model of transit . ( 2008 , 2.2 110)
Via the transit forum,
http://fordtransit.org/forum/
I found a van tuner who can do it
http://vantuner.co.uk/transit-egr-delete/#comment-120
Unfortunately they are in London , so not worth the cost of ferry, diesel and time ..

Rippy

jimgoose wrote: »

Oh I know, but it's worth a go!

Exactly . Will give it a bash

Rippy

The Pontiac wrote: »

I clean the EGR on my car, just routine. It's a simple job.

Even if you need a new EGR valve, then it shouldn't cost that much. Not sure what model transit you have, but they're about £110 new. Just find the right one for that model and do it yourself. Take about an hour. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Transit-tdci-EGR-Valve-1480560-/121107886791?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3ATransit&hash=item1c3297b2c7

Thanks for that . Motorcrafty rip off again :eek:
As the van runs better without the bloody thing sooting up the intake I would rather do without it if I can though .
Seems the best option if I can't clear the light ( temporary) via OCR.

jimgoose

Rippy wrote: »

Thanks for that . Motorcrafty rip off again :eek:

Lament ye not Motorcraft! The DCCV (this yoke: Amazon - Five-way motorised valve) packed up in my oul' Jag last year. Jag UK wanted €300 for one, which is the same one in the Amazon link with "Jaguar" written on it in crayon.

Rippy wrote: »

Seems the best option if I can't clear the light ( temporary) via OCR.

You never know your luck in a small town. Talkcha.

sanbrafyffe

ring your nearest ford dealer,,,,ask them for a price,,you might get a good one for a new egr aslong as you bring the old egr back,,,,egr valves are common anyway on all diesel egines,,sometimes you get away with cleaning/lubricating them,,sometimes you dont

Rippy

Nissan doctor wrote: »

They need to complete drive cycles to register if the signal from the various modules are within expected ranges or not.

However if a module is giving no signal at all, it will register an immediate fault.

Well it it worked .a very nice fella cleared the fault codes with a cheap little scanner

Nissan doctor

Rippy wrote: »

Well it it worked .a very nice fella cleared the fault codes with a cheap little scanner

I wouldn't be expecting it to stay off though.

jimgoose

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I wouldn't be expecting it to stay off though.

It only has to stay off for long enough.

Redsoxfan

Is this only a fail for DOE? Pretty sure I've had cars pass the NCT when the 'check engine' light is on.

jimgoose

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Is this only a fail for DOE? Pretty sure I've had cars pass the NCT when the 'check engine' light is on.

IIRC since June 2011 any dash warning lamps not behaving as they should constitutes a fail for the NCT as well.

The Pontiac

jimgoose wrote: »

It only has to stay off for long enough.

But isn't there still a problem with the EGR valve. Why not just fix it?

Get one on ebay and fit yourself. €130, not that bad.

Maybe a good clean will suffice? I'd prefer it the light stayed on until the problem was fixed. That's why the warning light is there, to warn of a problem!

jimgoose

The Pontiac wrote: »

But isn't there still a problem with the EGR valve. Why not just fix it?

Get one on ebay and fit yourself. €130, not that bad.

Maybe a good clean will suffice? I'd prefer it the light stayed on until the problem was fixed. That's why the warning light is there, to warn of a problem!

An EGR valve stuck shut is an enhancement, not a problem.

Rippy

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Is this only a fail for DOE? Pretty sure I've had cars pass the NCT when the 'check engine' light is on.

As far as I can ascertain , the DoE test was revised last year . It was hopelessly outdated , (for example reversing lights were not part of it ) and warning lights became part of it .
Really don't know about NCT

Nissan doctor

jimgoose wrote: »

An EGR valve stuck shut is an enhancement, not a problem.

Its a problem unless the ECU is mapped to suit it.

If not, then on moderns diesels, the fuel control will be off, the AFM readings will be running at or close to limits constantly, and, for vehicles with DPF's, there will be excess soot building up very rapidly.

Modern Euro 4/5/6 Diesels cannot just have the EGR blocked like early vacuum or electronic controlled EGR's

Redsoxfan

jimgoose wrote: »

IIRC since June 2011 any dash warning lamps not behaving as they should constitutes a fail for the NCT as well.

Airbags etc, yes, I knew that. But one of my cars has the engine light one pretty much all the time, and it has passed two NCTs in since 2011.

Nissan doctor

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Airbags etc, yes, I knew that. But one of my cars has the engine light one pretty much all the time, and it has passed two NCTs in since 2011.

EML on is not an NCT fail.

Doe is different though.

Rippy

The Pontiac wrote: »

But isn't there still a problem with the EGR valve. Why not just fix it?

Get one on ebay and fit yourself. €130, not that bad.

Maybe a good clean will suffice? I'd prefer it the light stayed on until the problem was fixed. That's why the warning light is there, to warn of a problem!

I actually don't want an egr valve sooting up my inlet and reducing performance . Drives fine without it and still passed emissions test .

jimgoose

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Its a problem unless the ECU is mapped to suit it.

If not, then on moderns diesels, the fuel control will be off, the AFM readings will be running at or close to limits constantly, and, for vehicles with DPF's, there will be excess soot building up very rapidly.

Modern Euro 4/5/6 Diesels cannot just have the EGR blocked like early vacuum or electronic controlled EGR's

Plenty nice hot exhaust for better boost and less lag, and the DPF will just have to HTFU, Bevan!

The Pontiac

Rippy wrote: »

I actually don't want an egr valve sooting up my inlet and reducing performance . Drives fine without it and still passed emissions test .

I'd be inclined to go with Nissan Doctor's advice, a very well respected mechanic here. See post above.

I can't advice any further, but to stay away from Ford dealers in the future. €500 is a pure rip-off.

Jimdagym

Nissan doctor wrote: »

EML on is not an NCT fail.

Doe is different though.

EML is an NCT fail for diesels, isn't it? Not for petrols.

Nissan doctor

jimgoose wrote: »

Plenty nice hot exhaust for better boost and less lag, and the DPF will just have to HTFU, Bevan!

The amount of exhaust reaching the turbo is the same with or without an EGR valve.

Excess combustion and exhaust gas temperature will lead to issues down the line with excess engine wear, premature ring wear, Excess carbon build up and issues with oil sludge/carbonisation which will shorten the life of your turbo among other things.

You should stop getting your info on EGR's from the lads down the pub.:P

jimgoose

Nissan doctor wrote: »

The amount of exhaust reaching the turbo is the same with or without an EGR valve.

Excess combustion and exhaust gas temperature will lead to issues down the line with excess engine wear, premature ring wear, Excess carbon build up and issues with oil sludge/carbonisation which will shorten the life of your turbo among other things.

You should stop getting your info on EGR's from the lads down the pub.:P

Modern diesels have The Ghey. They should use proper engines that work.

beam99

I got a van doe last week engine light on, passed no problem, I was told before its same as Nct, they will not fail for engine light only srs or air bag lights

Rippy

beam99 wrote: »

I got a van doe last week engine light on, passed no problem, I was told before its same as Nct, they will not fail for engine light only srs or air bag lights

You were lucky tester wasn't strictly applying new regs.