engines questions

Merch

Looking for some info on few engines
on some older cars

1.8 Avensis Mk 1 from around 03, Its a 1794cc engine, does this engine have a timing chain? is it the vvti engine? how does it compare to the 1.6 or newer avensis engines, are they the same engines even?
Was there a known issue of oil consumption, is it bad consumption thats also common across all engines or does it depend on the engine? or was it a recal item?

The 1.9 TDi in the Octavia around 2002 (1896cc engine) would this engine have DPF?? or DMF? or is this the much talked about engine that will live forever?
(I see there is also a 1897cc and 1898cc engine) not sure which of those is newer or which has problems

Anjobe

Merch wrote: »

Looking for some info on few engines
on some older cars

1.8 Avensis Mk 1 from around 03, Its a 1794cc engine, does this engine have a timing chain? is it the vvti engine? how does it compare to the 1.6 or newer avensis engines, are they the same engines even?
Was there a known issue of oil consumption, is it bad consumption thats also common across all engines or does it depend on the engine? or was it a recal item?

The post-facelift (2000) Mk1 Avensis 1.8 has the 1ZZ-FE engine with a timing chain and vvt-i. This engine is known for oil consumption issues - have a look at this thread. The Mk2 Avensis has the same 1.6 and 1.8 L engines, the 1.6 also has oil consumption problems although they seem to be less common. The Mk3 Avensis (2008 - ) has a different family of engines.

sean1141

The 1.9tdi in a 02 octavia will have a dmf but not a dpf

Merch

sean1141 wrote: »

The 1.9tdi in a 02 octavia will have a dmf but not a dpf

Ok, thanks for both those replies,

Good enough to hear there is no DPF,
if anyone knows are there any problems with the DMF in the Octavia or similar VAG cars (Passat or anything hatch or estate).
I never really heard of the DMF and problems associated with them until much later and this was associated more with low use short journeys when diesels became more popular due to the motor tax changes.

if anyone else knows what the differences to the other 1.9 engines in the VAG range are that'd be good as Ive heard there are newer 1.9 diesels (I assume turbocharged) that arent as good as the older 1.9 (I assume the above mentione 1.9TDI, in 1896cc).


I see the 1896 was the original diesel engine In SDI and TDI, just from looking at wiki, Im assuming the TDI is the turbocharged version of the SDI engine .

The next generation had the 1.6TDI and 1.9TDI, the 1.9 has PD after it and I recal hearing something about that, not sure if it was good or bad, so I will try here and trawl elsewhere to see if I can dig up anything, if anyone knows anything useful about these engines, ie good/bad?

Would there be any other major issues to look at on these engines that would cost to repair, fuel pumps.
and the 1.6 TDI, if its a good engine, or has problems.
I have in the past heard of a diesel from VAG, thats very reliable but never really looked at them and then that later model 1.9's had problems so I think they are different engines, mostly I got that from the VRT website which shows 1896,1897 and 1898cc engines.

Are they later designs and do they have problems? would they be in the Octavia? which is a car Im considering. I never really liked any of the VAG cars for their look other than the Octavia and thats for the boot space in a car built on golf chassis. Ive heard of people with problems with the Passat (although it is a petrol, not sure if its a 1.6 or 1.8), but being a car with big boot space Id consider an estate.

Merch

Anjobe wrote: »

The post-facelift (2000) Mk1 Avensis 1.8 has the 1ZZ-FE engine with a timing chain and vvt-i. This engine is known for oil consumption issues - have a look at this thread. The Mk2 Avensis has the same 1.6 and 1.8 L engines, the 1.6 also has oil consumption problems although they seem to be less common. The Mk3 Avensis (2008 - ) has a different family of engines.

I'll read that thread, I heard they were reliable (the 1.8's) and read here that they have better fuel consumption than the 1.6's and that they will go forever (basic maintenance assumed) , but that its possible the manufacturer MAY have even replaced the engine or implemented a fix for engines with certain levels of leaks (assuming they were brought to their attention during maintenance)

off to that thread

edit, 1 minute or so later
that thread was shorter than I expected
I'll keep looking.

Merch

It seems there is/was a problem with the PD engine regarding wear and the cam lobes and its gone out of favour for a common rail engine now, looks like there is only one 1.9 diesel engine too (the 1896) so Im not sure where VRT are getting their 1897 and 1898cc engines from?. Im assuming the pre PD engines were some kind of mechanical or electrical rotary pump opposed to the PD units.


Any opinions on the 1.8 opel petrol engines, regarding problems reliability etc
(Just trying to cover the full spectrum)

sean1141

The pd were a pretty reliable engine but they needed a certain quality of oil (vw 505.01) to keep them in good order. This being ireland every kind of crap was put into them and this caused wear on the cams. Good oil was the life of them.
The older tdi engines a little less troublesome but both are capable of very high millage once maintained. Both suffered with dmf issues but then again every diesel that has them will suffer from them.

bazz26

Most diesel engines have a DMF and it will need replacing eventually depending on mileage and wear. It is also advised to get the clutch replaced at the same time as the DMF.

Merch

sean1141 wrote: »

The pd were a pretty reliable engine but they needed a certain quality of oil (vw 505.01) to keep them in good order. This being ireland every kind of crap was put into them and this caused wear on the cams. Good oil was the life of them.
The older tdi engines a little less troublesome but both are capable of very high millage once maintained. Both suffered with dmf issues but then again every diesel that has them will suffer from them.

Yes I read that the correct oil spec is essential (which is obvious, to some)
I've a concern for long life service intervals and the lack of concern some individuals/main dealers or maybe even some independant garages have for correct oil use. I always did my own oil changes in my car, I only started buying Non Ford oil, usually Halfords when it was cheap but also some motor factors (but of the correct spec) after 100,000 miles.
Ive read on a UK site the problem exists there too and that some people experienced problems despite following the guidelines correctly. Im trying to figure out how I will tell looking at a PD engine by the look or some designation as it will be more of a concern to me than the previous TDI engine.

Is there some kind of designation for the PD engine in the paperwork?

Any idea on the interval for the timing belt on the 1.9, (I assume it is a belt)

I am aware the 1.8 vvti as above is a chain and have read as long as the oil is changed routinely that the chain shouldnt give problems, Im a bit wary of the oil consumption of the Mk1 avensis based on that it probably wont have been looked at.

Im still considering an auto and probably the 1.6 or 1.8 Zafira too, if anyone has any opinions on those engines.

Merch

Re the PD, I'll answer my own question, as doing a bit of trawling/googling outside boards too.
http://www.tdi-tuningbox.co.uk/pdvp.asp

sean1141

Im on my third 1.9 tdi and i have never had a problem with any of them. 60k covered in a 02bora. 60k in a 05 leon and about 5k in a fabia. I had a mondeo tdci between the leon and fabia and while it didnt give me any major problems, just a cam sensor failed, they were not near as nice an engine compared to the vag which was a lot quieter and a lot more lively

Merch

I dont do the mileage to really justify a diesel but it could be an option,
Ive seen some cheap ones in good condition with low miles in the UK and I dont think they have a DMF, which eliminates the need to be driving like I need to purge it. So it could sit idle at times or do short journeys and possibly not be as much of a concern as it looks like I could still get better mpg than some 1.8 petrols but with long life reliability.
If I dont end up getting one, I dont mind researching them a bit as I know someone else that might still get one.

My own preference is for a petrol engined vehicle no more than a 1.6, but max 1.8 (stretching for a 1.9 diesel maybe). Ive seen some petrol cars between 1.8-2.0 and from checking online (UK sites, Parkers and Honest Johns, the mpg is pretty poor, especially in the autos which is a consideration for me).
I'm looking at a vehicle thats either a hatch/estate car or a people carrier, Id go the octavia route as the boot is so big even in the hatch or an estate which looks bigger still (from pictures), similarily for the above avensis, while Id prefer auto for the missus, It looks like its narrowing it down too much, Im open to considering manuals which prefer for their own sake, I think simpler and more fuel efficient.
There looks like there are a few auto options in the people carriers. Id be happy in a pre DPF diesel and put money aside for the DMF with the view to changing to a solid flywheel if its an option, but low miles in a DPF diesel is just pointless I think.
I can get a cheap older petrol in manual preferably with low miles, with the reliability of say the mk1 avensis and none of the diesel issues, but it comes with the oil consumption issue, so its swings and roundabouts, a people carrier could be good in that there is some space and can be converted to an almost van like state for moving stuff around too which is good.

sean1141

Its not the amount of miles you do that is the problem its the type of driving. You could only do 8-10k a year traveling from say Dublin to Cork twice a week. This would be perfect for a diesel or you could do the exact same millage in a town with a lot of stop start traffic. This won't suit a diesel. You will get poor mpg and put a lot of pressure on a dmf and dpf if the car has one. Diesels need open roads to be at there best. If you don't do this type of driving and want a high mpg and no dmf trouble a diesel is not what you need

Merch

sean1141 wrote: »

Its not the amount of miles you do that is the problem its the type of driving. You could only do 8-10k a year traveling from say Dublin to Cork twice a week. This would be perfect for a diesel or you could do the exact same millage in a town with a lot of stop start traffic. This won't suit a diesel. You will get poor mpg and put a lot of pressure on a dmf and dpf if the car has one. Diesels need open roads to be at there best. If you don't do this type of driving and want a high mpg and no dmf trouble a diesel is not what you need

I agree, but I wondered if the mpg on say a less refined diesel without a DPF would be acceptable for just the odd short run,

ie I did a calculation previously for a small car that wasnt doing great mpg (about 35mpg). On the basis that it was not driven so much, it only represented a small cost difference to a car that was doing 40mpg as the amount it was driven was low, it was only a few hundred euros.

I know the DMF wont like it, but I considered putting away some money to do the flywheel, maybe revert to a solid SMF. I even wondered would altering my driving style to allow the clutch slip more on take up of power, it would wear quicker maybe, but then i could get it changed for a solid one?

really a petrol is the preferred option
The only diesel id really consider is an unrefined 1.9 TDi, in which Id hazard a guess Id get similar mpg as a say 1.8 petrol vehicle, but still have the ability to get good mpg if I did a long trip.

sean1141

I get about 46-8 mpg around home(country side) but drops back to late 30s when I go to Dublin etc where I get held in traffic lights etc. About 53-5 on the motorway doing 120ish and 60ish at about 100.

You could have one for years and never suffer dmf problems. I'd try get one that was replaced if I were you

Merch

sean1141 wrote: »

I get about 46-8 mpg around home(country side) but drops back to late 30s when I go to Dublin etc where I get held in traffic lights etc. About 53-5 on the motorway doing 120ish and 60ish at about 100.

You could have one for years and never suffer dmf problems. I'd try get one that was replaced if I were you

The 1.9 caught my interest for a number of reasons
Ive seen cars, mostly looked (online) at Octavia with that engine for relatively cheap money, Ive heard its a great engine if looked after, I dont do lots of stop start trips and I hardly drive much anyway, but I need a bigger family vehicle that can still currently carry one buggy, a dog and some luggage at times.
I do my best to avoid traffic peak times and without the DPF I consider it a possibility, I thought I might be able to ride the clutch a bit more like a motorbike to ease the effects on the DMF. Not sure if thats practical or just burn my clutch out quicker.Getting one thats been done already would be a big plus.

If the mpg is in the high 30's, well some petrols would only get that in traffiic too and Ive looked at autos that are worse (low 30s).
The ability/option to get 60ish mpg on the open road encourages me, other cars Im looking at are only 30-38mpg in petrols all around the 1.8 mark

sean1141

The open road is when the diesel shines. Great mpg when driven sensible and loads of torque for overtaking without changing loads of gears. Now my experience with vag tdi have been the higher powered ones with 6speed manual gearboxs. The lower powered ones may not perform as well or maybe they perform better!

Merch

Ok, thanks for all the opinions/advice

Something to chew over, if anyone thinks of something else, post away.