Who cuts the grass?

useurename

I'm renting a place for the last 6 months. The lawn needs to be cut. I offered to cut the grass if the landlord supplied the lawn mower.They have refused and said i have to pay someone to do it. I have never got a lease/contract.Don't know what to do.

ABajaninCork

Pay to get the grass cut, get a receipt and knock it off the rent. Keep a copy of the receipt for your records.

spockety

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Pay to get the grass cut, get a receipt and knock it off the rent. Keep a copy of the receipt for your records.

Under no circumstances withhold any rent, this is absolutely terrible advice.

Is it that you never signed a lease, or that you don't have a copy of it?

Generally the Landlord is responsible for the upkeep of gardens and house externals, but 99% of leases have a clause passing responsibility for maintenance of the garden onto the tenant.

If you haven't even signed a lease then I'm not sure where to begin.....

useurename

I did not get or sign any lease and have had no contact with the landlord since I moved in. I offered to pay someone to cut the grass and subtract it from the rent but that did not go down well. I really like the house but the landlord seems be making a really big deal about this. I also asked if he could put up a clothesline.Now he wants to talk about a rent review due to the property tax.Blah, blah. I think i'll need to start looking for a new place. I've been renting for 13 years and i know from experience that when the landlord starts getting angry at small requests there is no happy ending.

belcampprisoner

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055836451

ABajaninCork

spockety wrote: »

Under no circumstances withhold any rent, this is absolutely terrible advice.

Is it that you never signed a lease, or that you don't have a copy of it?

Generally the Landlord is responsible for the upkeep of gardens and house externals, but 99% of leases have a clause passing responsibility for maintenance of the garden onto the tenant.

If you haven't even signed a lease then I'm not sure where to begin.....

I don't agree. Works for me. We've paid green fees and other bits and pieces for the LL. All we do is tell the LL what's happened, knock it off the rent and give him the receipt when he comes for his mail. But then we have a reasonable LL with whom we have a very good relationship.

useurename wrote: »

I did not get or sign any lease and have had no contact with the landlord since I moved in. I offered to pay someone to cut the grass and subtract it from the rent but that did not go down well. I really like the house but the landlord seems be making a really big deal about this. I also asked if he could put up a clothesline.Now he wants to talk about a rent review due to the property tax.Blah, blah. I think i'll need to start looking for a new place. I've been renting for 13 years and i know from experience that when the landlord starts getting angry at small requests there is no happy ending.

If that's the way the LL's going to carry on, then yes, I'd move. Probably not worth the argument.

the world wonders

useurename wrote: »

I'm renting a place for the last 6 months.

Now he wants to talk about a rent review due to the property tax.

He cannot do this. Under the Residential Tenancies Act there must be at least 12 months between each rent review, and there cannot be a rent review within the first 12 months of the tenancy.

jam_mac_jam

I would think that you cut it if he provides the lawnmower. Seems a bit much to expect you to pay somebody to do it.

Chris_5339762

I thought this had come up on here before and that the general consensus was that the tenant is expected to do it, or get someone in to do it, regardless of whether a lawnmower is provided or not.

spockety

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I don't agree. Works for me. We've paid green fees and other bits and pieces for the LL. All we do is tell the LL what's happened, knock it off the rent and give him the receipt when he comes for his mail. But then we have a reasonable LL with whom we have a very good relationship.

With the greatest respect, I think we can deduce that the OP does not have the kind of relationship with his landlord that you have with yours.

Your post read like he should take unilateral action to deduct it from his rent. If he can get agreement from his landlord to do it, great.

dozy doctor

I'll sell you my flymo lawnmower for €80. Only used it 5 times last year and stoned the lawn in March so no need for it now.... If he's not up for being reasonable, tell him to jog on and find a new tenant, after your year is up....

ABajaninCork

spockety wrote: »

With the greatest respect, I think we can deduce that the OP does not have the kind of relationship with his landlord that you have with yours.

Your post read like he should take unilateral action to deduct it from his rent. If he can get agreement from his landlord to do it, great.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If that's the way the LL's going to carry on, then yes, I'd move. Probably not worth the argument.

Well, yes. Which is why I added the note underneath.

ted1

If the landlord does not provide the tools to maintain the garden then the landlord is obliged to, if lawn mower is provided then its the tenants job, this is what is stated in most contracts

the_syco

the world wonders wrote: »

He cannot do this. Under the Residential Tenancies Act there must be at least 12 months between each rent review, and there cannot be a rent review within the first 12 months of the tenancy.

Thought it was 6 months, but you'e correct that it's "over a year". OP, please see here for more info.

With no lease or contract, did you get a receipt for your deposit, or did you even have to give a deposit?

murphaph

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I would think that you cut it if he provides the lawnmower. Seems a bit much to expect you to pay somebody to do it.

Why? A house comes with a garden that needs tending. Should the landlord provide jif/domestos/mops/brushes/jcloths and whatever else is required to keep the house itself clean?

I sometimes wonder about the mentality of Irish tenants that they expect everything to be done for them.

If you don't want to be responsible for mowing lawns then rent an apartment and not a house!

El_Dangeroso

murphaph wrote: »

Why? A house comes with a garden that needs tending. Should the landlord provide jif/domestos/mops/brushes/jcloths and whatever else is required to keep the house itself clean?

I sometimes wonder about the mentality of Irish tenants that they expect everything to be done for them.

If you don't want to be responsible for mowing lawns then rent an apartment and not a house!

Ehh, most rentals provide a hoover, mops, sweeping brushes, how is a lawnmower any different?

Although I expect you may be the type of landlord that gets huffy when the tenant requires absolutely anything of you except to pocket rent cheques of course.

murphaph

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Ehh, most rentals provide a hoover, mops, sweeping brushes, how is a lawnmower any different?

Although I expect you may be the type of landlord that gets huffy when the tenant requires absolutely anything of you except to pocket rent cheques of course.

You had to get personal didn't you! :rolleyes:

I provide all the nonsense required by the surrogate mammy laws we have in Ireland that make the LL responsible for things a continental LL would scoff at.

djimi

I would have said that the tenant is responsible, but I have found the following and am not entirely sure now.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

Since 1 December 2009, the requirement to maintain the rental property in a proper state of structural repair is spelt out in more detail. The Regulations require landlords to maintain the property in a sound state, inside and out. They specify that roofs, roofing tiles, slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascias, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas must be maintained in good condition and repair. They must not be defective due to dampness or otherwise.

valleyoftheunos

djimi wrote: »

I would have said that the tenant is responsible, but I have found the following and am not entirely sure now.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

the DSBA standard lease which most people will be renting under specifies that the Gardens are to be maintained by the Tenant. Many tenants fail to realise this.

djimi

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

the DSBA standard lease which most people will be renting under specifies that the Gardens are to be maintained by the Tenant. Many tenants fail to realise this.

It doesnt matter what a lease says; if the law states that the landlord must keep the garden maintained and in good condition (as it appears to) then no lease can supercede what is written into law.

Id like to see some clarification of that link that I posted though.

El_Dangeroso

murphaph wrote: »

You had to get personal didn't you! :rolleyes:

I provide all the nonsense required by the surrogate mammy laws we have in Ireland that make the LL responsible for things a continental LL would scoff at.

Well considering you were tarnishing every tenant in the country I would think you got personal first.

I really don't understand why people like you become landlords. That is a genuine question. You appear to despise your customers.

valleyoftheunos

djimi wrote: »

It doesnt matter what a lease says; if the law states that the landlord must keep the garden maintained and in good condition (as it appears to) then no lease can supercede what is written into law.

Id like to see some clarification of that link that I posted though.

Its entirely possible to vary rights and obligations by contract (eg shorter termination notice periods by agreement.) unless the statute prevents such variation. I'm not aware of any such prevention contained in the 2004 act in relation to responsibility for gardens. I'd be very surprised if a standard lease as drafted by a legal representative body would contain such a glaring error.

djimi

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Its entirely possible to vary rights and obligations by contract (eg shorter termination notice periods by agreement.) unless the statute prevents such variation. I'm not aware of any such prevention contained in the 2004 act in relation to responsibility for gardens. I'd be very surprised if a standard lease as drafted by a legal representative body would contain such a glaring error.

It is my understanding that a landlord can sign away any rights they choose, but that the rights of a tenant can never be lessened/removed by something that is written into a lease. Its not uncommon to see all sorts of nonsense written into leases, and even if the tenant signs the lease it wouldnt stand a chance of holding up.

Im not 100% about the legal standing regarding maintenance of gardens etc; Im only going on what I found on Citizens Information. If that is written into the RTA 2004 then Id be amazed if a landlord was allowed to supercede it by writing something different into a lease.

valleyoftheunos

djimi wrote: »

It is my understanding that a landlord can sign away any rights they choose, but that the rights of a tenant can never be lessened/removed by something that is written into a lease. Its not uncommon to see all sorts of nonsense written into leases, and even if the tenant signs the lease it wouldnt stand a chance of holding up.

Im not 100% about the legal standing regarding maintenance of gardens etc; Im only going on what I found on Citizens Information. If that is written into the RTA 2004 then Id be amazed if a landlord was allowed to supercede it by writing something different into a lease.

Its not that the LL writes it in its that the LL and tenant agree it, Contract law allows parties to assign burdens and give up statutory rights in all sorts of situations and not in others. I only skimmed the act, something to look at another time perhaps.

djimi

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Its not that the LL writes it in its that the LL and tenant agree it, Contract law allows parties to assign burdens and give up statutory rights in all sorts of situations and not in others. I only skimmed the act, something to look at another time perhaps.

I dont think its that simple though when it comes to tenancy law. I have certainly heard of cases where clauses in signed leases have been dismissed legally because they contradict what is written in law in the RTA2004.

For example, a landlord cannot write into a lease that they are free to terminate a lease with a weeks notice and after the week they can come in and change the locks; even if the tenant signs such a lease it doesnt make the clause any more legally binding.

Grandpa Hassan

djimi wrote: »

It doesnt matter what a lease says; if the law states that the landlord must keep the garden maintained and in good condition (as it appears to) then no lease can supercede what is written into law.

Id like to see some clarification of that link that I posted though.

'Good condition', does not mean tidy. It means there can't be an open sewer in the middle of it. But I might take the view, as a LL, that an overgrown garden that resembles an impenetrable forest is in fact in a very good and healthy condition. The aesthetics are down to the tenant

valleyoftheunos

djimi wrote: »

I dont think its that simple though when it comes to tenancy law. I have certainly heard of cases where clauses in signed leases have been dismissed legally because they contradict what is written in law in the RTA2004.

For example, a landlord cannot write into a lease that they are free to terminate a lease with a weeks notice and after the week they can come in and change the locks; even if the tenant signs such a lease it doesnt make the clause any more legally binding.

Yes there would be sections of the 2004 act that can't be varied but such a clause would affect rights under Part 4 of the Act rather than Part 2 and such a clause could arguably have the effect of making the contract illusory which would be invalid in any circumstances.

As I said though, if its included in the Solicitor's standard tenancy agreement I would expect its legally sound.

djimi

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

'Good condition', does not mean tidy. It means there can't be an open sewer in the middle of it. But I might take the view, as a LL, that an overgrown garden that resembles an impenetrable forest is in fact in a very good and healthy condition. The aesthetics are down to the tenant

Fair enough. As I said its just something I found; Im not sure how to interpret its meaning. "Good condition" is a pretty ambiguous phrase and could be taken to mean a couple of things.

djimi

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Yes there would be sections of the 2004 act that can't be varied but such a clause would affect rights under Part 4 of the Act rather than Part 2 and such a clause could arguably have the effect of making the contract illusory which would be invalid in any circumstances.

As I said though, if its included in the Solicitor's standard tenancy agreement I would expect its legally sound.

As would I. Unfortunately when it comes to tenancy law I have learned to take nothing for granted, as there are a lot of people out there (many of whom should know better) who seem to interpet the law without actually fully understanding it. Its not unheard of for letting agents, solicitors, even Threshold, to make an arse of interpreting the RTA2004. Its also not unheard of for things to be thrown into leases in the hope that the tenant wont know the difference and understand that its not legal...

murphaph

The RAS lease my tenants are about to sign makes them responsible for the garden. That lease came from a housing authority.

I believe a LL should have to provide a structurally sound property and that silly things like microwaves should be the tenant's problem.

BostonB

Ignoring the legality of it for a moment, its impractical for a LL to maintain the garden. Do you want them around every other week mowing the grass, getting access to the back garden, the shed, putting the grass in your bin. Who empties the bin. Who defines how often its cut. If the LL has to do it, they may simply pay a 3rd party to do it. Then build the cost into the rent.

If you don't want to maintain a garden. Don't rent one.

Balmed Out

Find this strange, anyone else in Cork and what has youre experience been?

Every property I have ever rented the landlord has cut the grass and a mate was just telling me about how he has a Polish couple renting his property who are the best tennants ever and that they even insist on cutting the grass.

Id actually back out of renting a property where I was expected to cut the grass as I would immediately think the landlord was a bit of a cowboy who didnt know what they were doing. I guess its just different in different parts of the country.

BostonB

so if a LL had 10 properties you expect him to spend every sunny day cutting grass and disposing of it?

Makes no sense. they will pay someone else to do it and add the cost to the rent.

So its really an issue of the tenant saving money on their rent and having a bit more privacy.

Diarmuid

I rent and I wouldn't want to be seeing my LL around my home every week during the summer. I'm a grown adult and can cut the lawn myself.

whippet

When I was renting I wanted to cut the garden, it was a fairly sizable garden (about 1/3 of an acre) but the landlord insisted that it was his responsibility and came around every weekend / second weekend to cut it; took a couple of hours.

Balmed Out

BostonB wrote: »

so if a LL had 10 properties you expect him to spend every sunny day cutting grass and disposing of it?

Makes no sense. they will pay someone else to do it and add the cost to the rent.

So its really an issue of the tenant saving money on their rent and having a bit more privacy.

Hardly. It makes as much sense as any other expense the landlord has - plumber, electrician etc. I expect a landlord to be professional and to pay someone to mow the lawn, fix anything thats faulty,replace anything broken etc. Obviously having a professional landlord who does all this will be more expensive but in my view worth it. In my current accomodation in 4 and a half years Ii have yet to even witness the lawn being cut, always while im at work.

As a tennant I could save money by living in a bedsit with a hole in the roof but im willing to pay more to get a satisfactory standard of accomodation.

Grandpa Hassan

Balmed Out wrote: »

Hardly. It makes as much sense as any other expense the landlord has - plumber, electrician etc. I expect a landlord to be professional and to pay someone to mow the lawn, fix anything thats faulty,replace anything broken etc. Obviously having a professional landlord who does all this will be more expensive but in my view worth it. In my current accomodation in 4 and a half years Ii have yet to even witness the lawn being cut, always while im at work.

As a tennant I could save money by living in a bedsit with a hole in the roof but im willing to pay more to get a satisfactory standard of accomodation.

You can equally argue that maintaining the garden is equivalent to keeping the inside of the house tidy. Would you expect the landlord to do your hoovering?

I am not sure how you equate mowing the lawn to fixing a pipe.

Balmed Out

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

You can equally argue that maintaining the garden is equivalent to keeping the inside of the house tidy. Would you expect the landlord to do your hoovering?

I am not sure how you equate mowing the lawn to fixing a pipe.

I see both as maintenance.

I suppose it just depends on what you view the norm as being. In my experience (cork city and county) the landlord has always been responsible for any gardening, repairs, replacements etc.

The only maintenance I have always been responsible for would be drains as far as I can remember. Obviously I would always do the little things myself.

Anyone else from Cork and whats youre experience with who does lawn?

BostonB

Balmed Out wrote: »

...As a tennant I could save money by living in a bedsit with a hole in the roof but im willing to pay more to get a satisfactory standard of accomodation.

Well thats it entirely. The tenant makes that choice.

In the case of the OP, where the LL expects the tenant to pay for it. Hes obviously wrong. But the alternative is the LL raises the rent at the next review to cover the cost. If the tenant does it, or pays someone else to do, they control the cost.

BostonB

whippet wrote: »

When I was renting I wanted to cut the garden, it was a fairly sizable garden (about 1/3 of an acre) but the landlord insisted that it was his responsibility and came around every weekend / second weekend to cut it; took a couple of hours.

LOL. That sounds professional to you?

Amateur Gardener, then Amateur LL more like.