Sunday Times Badger Cull Article

yubabill1

Sent this today
Sir,

I was shocked to learn of the Dept. of Agriculture’s badger culling method in today’s ST. While I find the badger an inoffensive creature, I do not have a strong opinion on the ethics of a cull – however I agree with Brian May that no country has conquered TB by killing wildlife – but I feel that the scientists know what they are doing. However, it is quite unscientific to use snares to cull badgers. Snares are best left to pubescent boys, survivalists and starving soldiers behind enemy lines : They are an inefficient and inappropriate way to carry out a scientific cull. Snares require quite a lot of experience to set properly, they need to be set in large numbers and there are more targeted methods available which do not run the risk of trapping other wildlife in the area.

On the strength of John Mooney’s article today, I will be sending a complaint to the Dept. of Agriculture about the use of inappropriate culling measures and encourage your readers to do likewise.

Sincerely

LIFFY FISHING

Typical of the Sunday Upperclass Good Old British Times reader... now what about this Downton Abbey new episode...eh Smythe

Invincible

yubabill1 wrote: »

Sent this today
Sir,

I was shocked to learn of the Dept. of Agriculture’s badger culling method in today’s ST. While I find the badger an inoffensive creature, I do not have a strong opinion on the ethics of a cull – however I agree with Brian May that no country has conquered TB by killing wildlife – but I feel that the scientists know what they are doing. However, it is quite unscientific to use snares to cull badgers. Snares are best left to pubescent boys, survivalists and starving soldiers behind enemy lines : They are an inefficient and inappropriate way to carry out a scientific cull. Snares require quite a lot of experience to set properly, they need to be set in large numbers and there are more targeted methods available which do not run the risk of trapping other wildlife in the area.

On the strength of John Mooney’s article today, I will be sending a complaint to the Dept. of Agriculture about the use of inappropriate culling measures and encourage your readers to do likewise.

Sincerely

Get that letter writer to explain his concerns to all the farmers that have lost their herd because of T.B!!

alsace royal

as a farmer and hunter i have no problem with dispatching vermin but im not sold on the idea of culling badgers tbh, theres been badgers on our farm long before we were there, and its always been told to me by the older generations if you dont have t.b dont bother the badger. the thinking on this was that if you get rid of 'your' badgers new ones could come in and claim the set and bring t.b with them and over the last few generations this seems to of proven true. so im more than happy to let my badgers be, the most damage they do is a odd hole in the lawn where they dug up a worm or something lol.
now this is just my opinion it could of been just luck we never got it, has anyone else ever herd it or what is your opinions?

meathstevie

alsace royal wrote: »

as a farmer and hunter i have no problem with dispatching vermin but im not sold on the idea of culling badgers tbh, theres been badgers on our farm long before we were there, and its always been told to me by the older generations if you dont have t.b dont bother the badger. the thinking on this was that if you get rid of 'your' badgers new ones could come in and claim the set and bring t.b with them and over the last few generations this seems to of proven true. so im more than happy to let my badgers be, the most damage they do is a odd hole in the lawn where they dug up a worm or something lol.
now this is just my opinion it could of been just luck we never got it, has anyone else ever herd it or what is your opinions?

I don't believe the Department of Agriculture has any interest in culling badgers in TB free areas. As you said it's pointless to remove them and free up a space for potentially diseased ones.

yubabill1

think you're missing the point, guys.

this is subtle.

valerossi

I cull them if they needed culling but iv never even thought to take a crack at one because i never had a farmer ask and their protected. I no tb's an issue and all but has shooting rabbits dented mixo in anyway since it was introduced way back when not even slightly in the long run, but if there ever on the cards ill train the dog up on its scent and go for it badger fox crow all the same once my finger hits the bang switch. i shoot what im allowed and leave well alone what i can't.

LIFFY FISHING

Lads this article is about the cull in the UK.

yubabill1

What I'm cutting at is the use of "snare", a word which the anti's deliberately interchange with "trap"

valerossi

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Lads this article is about the cull in the UK.

Oh ya but what happens their nearly always knocks on to Ireland.

Birdnuts

valerossi wrote: »

Oh ya but what happens their nearly always knocks on to Ireland.

They are already culled here in TB areas under under a special licence granted to the Dept of Agriculture - mainly in the midlands AFAIK.

valerossi

Birdnuts wrote: »

They are already culled here in TB areas under a "special" licence by the Dept of Agriculture - mainly in the midlands AFAIK.

Oh their keeping that quite now, im on the coast so suppose ill put the 4 shot back in the safe and put on the 6-1 news:-( hope Evan's doin the sport.

Birdnuts

valerossi wrote: »

Oh their keeping that quite now, im on the coast so suppose ill put the 4 shot back in the safe and put on the 6-1 news:-( hope Evan's doin the sport.

Its referred to occasionally in the farming press - though I guess the mainstream public probably aren't aware of it.

richiedel123

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its referred to occasionally in the farming press - though I guess the mainstream public probably aren't aware of it.

It's goin on down my way for possibly the last ten years or so. I know our 2 local department men who carry it out and all. They are throwing about an idea of using a injection which is supposed make the badgers immune to tb so they don't carry it. Chances are it will be dearer though so won't be used

meathstevie

yubabill1 wrote: »

Sent this today
Sir,

I was shocked to learn of the Dept. of Agriculture’s badger culling method in today’s ST. While I find the badger an inoffensive creature, I do not have a strong opinion on the ethics of a cull – however I agree with Brian May that no country has conquered TB by killing wildlife – but I feel that the scientists know what they are doing. However, it is quite unscientific to use snares to cull badgers. Snares are best left to pubescent boys, survivalists and starving soldiers behind enemy lines : They are an inefficient and inappropriate way to carry out a scientific cull. Snares require quite a lot of experience to set properly, they need to be set in large numbers and there are more targeted methods available which do not run the risk of trapping other wildlife in the area.

On the strength of John Mooney’s article today, I will be sending a complaint to the Dept. of Agriculture about the use of inappropriate culling measures and encourage your readers to do likewise.

Sincerely

The idea behind using a snare with a stop (not designed to kill but to capture)is selective live catching. If badgers are targeted by authorised trappers the snares will be regularly checked and caught badgers despatched with a firearm.

OpenYourEyes

alsace royal wrote: »

as a farmer and hunter i have no problem with dispatching vermin but im not sold on the idea of culling badgers tbh, theres been badgers on our farm long before we were there, and its always been told to me by the older generations if you dont have t.b dont bother the badger. the thinking on this was that if you get rid of 'your' badgers new ones could come in and claim the set and bring t.b with them and over the last few generations this seems to of proven true. so im more than happy to let my badgers be, the most damage they do is a odd hole in the lawn where they dug up a worm or something lol.
now this is just my opinion it could of been just luck we never got it, has anyone else ever herd it or what is your opinions?

This is called the "perturbation" effect and has been proven to be true plenty of times alright. To the best of my knowledge the thinking of the Irish cull is to try and cull so many badgers that the perturbation effect doesn't really happen - obviously easier said than done to kill that many badgers in a wide area!

There's research that has recently been done on Irish farms that has found that badgers mostly avoid fields with cattle in them, though they will use their salt licks and drink from the cattle's water. There's some research being done on badgers on Irish farmyards too, as opposed to out in the fields, to get a better idea of their movements and actions and interactions with cattle. But all in all there's a decent scientific argument against the cull - a lot of people see it being done for political reasons rather than scientific ones. (though there is a tentative scientific link, and if we were to ever truly 100% eradicate TB from Ireland we'd have to deal with it in the badger population obviously)


Re: the use of snares, like meathstevie said they're obviously used with stops and used to ensure its a badger thats trapped and not anything else, and would be checked regularly so that non-target species can be released, and badgers can be dispatched efficiently - nothing unscientific about that!

yubabill1

Ok if they are using stops, but I would have thought they would have used some type of cage trap.
If using snares then I have shot myself in the foot!

meathstevie

Cage traps are too cumbersome and obvious, heavy and expensive. If someone takes a notion of wrecking them the replacement cost is far higher than replacing a snare.

Compared to that snares are cheap, effective and stealthy because they take up no space at all.

snipey

yubabill1 wrote: »

Sent this today
Sir,
however I agree with Brian May that no country has conquered TB by kill
ing wildlife

Brian May is no one to talk he charged people to shoot deer on his estate,and all his talk on saving the wildlife.

moloney

yubabill1 wrote: »

Sent this today
Sir,

I was shocked to learn of the Dept. of Agriculture’s badger culling method in today’s ST. While I find the badger an inoffensive creature, I do not have a strong opinion on the ethics of a cull – however I agree with Brian May that no country has conquered TB by killing wildlife – but I feel that the scientists know what they are doing. However, it is quite unscientific to use snares to cull badgers. Snares are best left to pubescent boys, survivalists and starving soldiers behind enemy lines : They are an inefficient and inappropriate way to carry out a scientific cull. Snares require quite a lot of experience to set properly, they need to be set in large numbers and there are more targeted methods available which do not run the risk of trapping other wildlife in the area.

On the strength of John Mooney’s article today, I will be sending a complaint to the Dept. of Agriculture about the use of inappropriate culling measures and encourage your readers to do likewise.

Sincerely.

well living in an area where there is a big badger problem hense there is alot of tb.outa ten farmers one had sixty cattle 57 went down with tb his neighbours nine in total have lost 437 bewteen them .now goin on the way the weather is for the last two years and the fact that these farmers have made very little money over the last three years with being locked up that means u cant sell or buy cattle and they dont get top price for their milk if they supply it .people are very quick to jump on to help the poor badger .who is helping the farmer when he is at wits end .there was a cull now im not going to say how many but it has helped the situation alot people need to understand that if u dont keep these numbers down their will be big problems its the same with the fox u would have no wildlife if he wasnt culled .the snare is an effective way of doing this it dosent kill them they are shot in the head with a humane killer and taken away for sampling its done in the quickest way possible its a fact of life the way we do these things .let the ones that dont understand this sit back and ask themselves what would it be like if we didnt do this .what ther way are we supposed to cull these animals while keeping in mind that u need a sample from them

OpenYourEyes

snipey wrote: »

yubabill1 wrote: »

Sent this today
Sir,
however I agree with Brian May that no country has conquered TB by kill
ing wildlife

Brian May is no one to talk he charged people to shoot deer on his estate,and all his talk on saving the wildlife.

Another way of looking at what you said would be that he accepts hunting as a rural pursuit and isn't one of these far-far-left people who think every single living thing should be saved and let live a Disney-film type existance.
So he's not coming at the badger problem from the same angle as an ICABS-type person, but he has actually weighed up all of the pro's and con's and decided that a cull just doesn't make the most sense.

Surely he'd be worse if he was campaigning against the badger cull AND banning hunting on his estate and campaigning against hunting etc?

boomerang

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Lads this article is about the cull in the UK.

No, 'tis about the Irish cull, and how animal welfare activists in the UK (spearheaded by Brian May) have organised their opposition to the Irish Dept. of Ag's policy of culling.

yubabill1

Wrote to the ed this morning asking him not to publish the letter, got reply saying no problem.

Phew!

Cork Rebel

Brian May is oppossed to all hunting.

Keelan

moloney wrote: »

well living in an area where there is a big badger problem hense there is alot of tb.outa ten farmers one had sixty cattle 57 went down with tb his neighbours nine in total have lost 437 bewteen them .now goin on the way the weather is for the last two years and the fact that these farmers have made very little money over the last three years with being locked up that means u cant sell or buy cattle and they dont get top price for their milk if they supply it .people are very quick to jump on to help the poor badger .who is helping the farmer when he is at wits end .there was a cull now im not going to say how many but it has helped the situation alot people need to understand that if u dont keep these numbers down their will be big problems its the same with the fox u would have no wildlife if he wasnt culled .the snare is an effective way of doing this it dosent kill them they are shot in the head with a humane killer and taken away for sampling its done in the quickest way possible its a fact of life the way we do these things .let the ones that dont understand this sit back and ask themselves what would it be like if we didnt do this .what ther way are we supposed to cull these animals while keeping in mind that u need a sample from them

Spot on. Some farmers have committed suicide because of their cattle losses to TB! I use to cull badgers for the dept under a permit from NPWS and i can tell you now, its a very strict set up. The snares are set and by law, they have to be checked by 12pm everyday that they are set. Any badger that is caught in the humane live catch snares, is humanely dispatched by a .22lr rifle, with a shot to the brain. The dead badger then is sent to the lab for testing to see if it has tb. I once culled 38 badgers in a area within 2 weeks and when the results came back from the lab, 21 of them had a bad case of tb!! I agree that in areas that are tb free, they should be left, but in areas that have tb, they need to be culled, that i am afraid, is the harsh reality of it all..! Another thing, the snares used, are special and only the dept of agriculture own them, anyone seen using them without permission from the dept and a permit from npws, will be prosecuted!

hfallada

My grandparents in Sligo have lost dozens of Cattle to TB from badgers over the years. It easy for someone in Dublin to say its cruel but when your farmer is your only source of income you do whatever to can to protect it.

OpenYourEyes

hfallada wrote: »

My grandparents in Sligo have lost dozens of Cattle to TB from badgers over the years. It easy for someone in Dublin to say its cruel but when your farmer is your only source of income you do whatever to can to protect it.

To be fair, while there are obviously a lot of people against the cull simply on the basis that its cruel, there's also a decent number of people arguing against it because they are of the opinion that it isn't the best way to deal with the TB problem.