Why do you care?

errlloyd

I care a lot. I'm very liberal, I believe in abortion on demand, assisted suicide, gay marriage, gay adoption, legalised marijuana, decriminalised prostitution, strict gun control and closing the gender pay gap. But I am a male, non drug user, heterosexual, Irish national, and I can't imagine every wanting to use a prostitute or end my life early.

Yet every day I allow the fact that these things don't happen in my country annoy me. The truth is Ireland is FUBAR, and I don't need to tell after hours this, you already know. But the worst part about Ireland is that no matter how much democracy I get I can't vote for any of the things I talk about above.

FF and FG have a political duopoly, both are conservative and neither are willing to compromise. Neither party are ever even going to call for a referendum on one of the above, because they know the might lose. Both parties will purposely avoid democracy because they know they can. No one else in Ireland can call a referendum (except the president on a piece of law, but it's never been done).

I let this irritate me, I campaign to change it and I see people campaigning to change it, but the truth is even if all of those social policies existed as I wanted them it would have no impact on my life whatsoever.

So surely I'd be better off just not giving a damn? I don't understand why I care?

Why do you care?

brummytom

I don't.

MrStuffins

It's funny how you can say you're "liberal" and then in the same sentence say you want strict control of something.

Augmerson

People be all pissed off and ****

errlloyd

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's funny how you can say you're "liberal" and then in the same sentence say you want strict control of something.

Yeah I'll concede that.

Chucken

errlloyd wrote: »

I campaign to change it and I see people campaigning to change it, but the truth is even if all of those social policies existed as I wanted them it would have no impact on my life whatsoever.

How do you know these things will never impact on your life?

If or when they do, you might or will change your mind about them.

Sarky

Much as I'm convinced that the vast majority of people in a position of any power in Ireland are almost uniformly ignorant, petty, short-sighted, corrupt, greedy, populist, spineless f*cktards, and the people who vote them into power are about as much to blame for not calling them out on their bullsh*t, I do actually quite like this country. I'd like to continue living here, and I'd like those of my friends who like it here to do the same. Considering that several of those friends can't get married here, or can't trust the health system if they become pregnant, or lost their jobs due to past governments raping the country's economy, and in at least one case can't die on his own terms, or are otherwise restricted or demonised by the establishment, such wishes are unlikely to be realistic.

So it's either give up on a really rather nice place with some very lovely people let down by a pathetic lack of civic duty or downright evil people in charge, or stay and try to make things better. The last mass emigration didn't do this place any favours. I'd like to at least try to save Ireland from itself, even just a little.

belcampprisoner

it does not make you liberal



Merriam-Webster defines Liberal in several ways…

1. of or befitting a man of free birth
2. marked by generosity
3. lacking moral restraint
4. not literal or strict
5. not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
Let’s add into the mix – via dictionary.com - a few more definitions of Liberal.
◾favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
◾noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
◾favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
◾favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

Chuck Stone

errlloyd wrote: »

I believe in abortion on demand

Even a week before the expected normal birth?

assisted suicide

Without limits? Should a 17-year-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of a week be extended suicide rights?

legalised marijuana

Why not all drugs?

strict gun control

Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

tim3000

errlloyd wrote: »

I care a lot. I'm very liberal, I believe in abortion on demand, assisted suicide, gay marriage, gay adoption, legalised marijuana, decriminalised prostitution, strict gun control and closing the gender pay gap. But I am a male, non drug user, heterosexual, Irish national, and I can't imagine every wanting to use a prostitute or end my life early.

Yet every day I allow the fact that these things don't happen in my country annoy me. The truth is Ireland is FUBAR, and I don't need to tell after hours this, you already know. But the worst part about Ireland is that no matter how much democracy I get I can't vote for any of the things I talk about above.

FF and FG have a political duopoly, both are conservative and neither are willing to compromise. Neither party are ever even going to call for a referendum on one of the above, because they know the might lose. Both parties will purposely avoid democracy because they know they can. No one else in Ireland can call a referendum (except the president on a piece of law, but it's never been done).

I let this irritate me, I campaign to change it and I see people campaigning to change it, but the truth is even if all of those social policies existed as I wanted them it would have no impact on my life whatsoever.

So surely I'd be better off just not giving a damn? I don't understand why I care?

Why do you care?

I have a policy of if it doesn't affect me directly or the people that I am close to well then let it go ahead. I am a very apathetic person. I would like to see gay marriage, I am pro choice (would vote that way in a referendum) but anti abortion overall, I believe in assisted suicide for the unhealthy. As for the prostitution thing I wouldn't like that just due to how degrading it is for the women involved. I would classify myself as a liberal let people make their own choices and mistakes it's not for me to tell someone how to live their live as I wouldn't like people telling me how to lie mine. However you asked what makes a person care perhaps they can afford to care.

I mean people with their lives sorted out steady jobs/careers stable home life etc these are the people that can afford to care and are the most vociferous about these social issues.

errlloyd

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Even a week before the expected normal birth?

Without limits? Should a 17-year-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of a week be extended suicide rights?

Why not all drugs?

Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

Yeah they're all valid arguments. I actually believe you should be able to abort up until the age of 18, that a 13 yr old who's parents don't buy him a smartphone should be encouraged to take assisted suicide and that we should only legalise Marajuana and Cyanide.

But I didn't think any of those things were relevant.

Lingua Franca

errlloyd wrote: »

Why do you care?

Because I'm a mother, a daughter, a grandaughter, a sister, a cousin, an aunt, a friend, a colleague. I know and care about people affected by most of the issues you mentioned and I'm affected by some myself. I want what's best for the people I know (and even the people I don't know because I can empathise with them)- and for the most part, what's best for people is not discrimination, restrictions and judgemental outdated laws which were created with an ethos peculiar to one religion that's currently having it's last gasps, but having self-determination.

Chucken

Chucken wrote: »

How do you know these things will never impact on your life?

If or when they do, you might or will change your mind about them.

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah they're all valid arguments. I actually believe you should be able to abort up until the age of 18, that a 13 yr old who's parents don't buy him a smartphone should be encouraged to take assisted suicide and that we should only legalise Marajuana and Cyanide.

But I didn't think any of those things were relevant.

Can you answer my post?

How do you know these things will never affect you?

starviewadams

Assisted suicide for folk with terminal illness would be my only rule.

Abortion,gay marriage/adoption,drug legalisation,prostitution etc is all fine by me.

Not a fan of making decisions for other people.

Richard Dower

I lack empathy....and iron.

errlloyd

Chucken wrote: »

Can you answer my post?

How do you know these things will never affect you?

Why did you quote two posts above that have nothing to do with each other or the OP? And why does your question matter to the OP?

I am part of a unique space program, I am flying on a one way ticket to Mars next month so I'm not worried about them. - Happy.

I'm reasonably confident they won't have an effect on my life. In any case it's irrelevant. The point of making that statement was emphasising that personal gain from those things is not what motivates me. If it was what motivated me, I wouldn't be asking what motivates me.

Chucken

errlloyd wrote: »

Why did you quote two posts above that have nothing to do with each other or the OP? And why does your question matter to the OP?

I am part of a unique space program, I am flying on a one way ticket to Mars next month so I'm not worried about them. - Happy.

I'm reasonably confident they won't have an effect on my life. In any case it's irrelevant. The point of making that statement was emphasising that personal gain from those things is not what motivates me. If it was what motivated me, I wouldn't be asking what motivates me.

I made a mistake with the multiquote, ok?

You still didnt answer. You dont know, you cant know, if any of those things will ever affect you.

Being "reasonably confident" is great, but you dont know!

So maybe you should rethink why you support all those things?

EDIT: And maybe try lose the attitude??

errlloyd

Chucken wrote: »

So maybe you should rethink why you support all those things?

Eh... That's kinda the point of the thread.

frozenfrozen

It's more upsetting to me that children are brought up in a flawed education system which doesn't encourage or attempt to develop the persons rational thought or creativity, and that everyone should want to be a doctor or dentist, and that those that don't aim "high", as the system has defined, are inherently failures.
I care because if I didn't I would simply kill myself. What's the point going through the motions if you aren't passionate about anything? I don't understand how people can do things dependently.
I'm struggling to not become completely anti-establishment, but I don't agree with many of the preconconcepted norms I am expected to abide to.
The more you think about why you should care the less reasons there really are, you're never going to fix the system and there's no escaping the system.
I care about everything I bother to do and I have no time for anyone who does something without asking why.
4am angry rambling because this topic is always on my mind.

Does anyone actually have a choice on caring or not? I wish I could not care because that would be a lot easier. Imagine how wonderful the world would be if one found the xfactor amusing. Capitalism is a personal entertainer creating content and the means to acquire it. Imagine how blissful life would be if you could completely buy into it.

Sent from my iphone, I must be their favourite kind of fool, the one who thinks he is enlightened.

Alter-Ego

tim3000 wrote: »

As for the prostitution thing I wouldn't like that just due to how degrading it is for the women involved. I would classify myself as a liberal let people make their own choices and mistakes it's not for me to tell someone how to live their live as I wouldn't like people telling me how to lie mine.

I've heard this from people quite a bit. If you choose to sell your body for sex, that's you own business, and how can it be degrading?

Your first and second sentences above contradict each other.

PunkFreud

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Even a week before the expected normal birth?



Without limits? Should a 17-year-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of a week be extended suicide rights?



Why not all drugs?



Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

I think all of your points are valid, but you're taking the extremes of the freedoms.
Abortion tends to be regulated so that a baby due within x weeks cant be aborted.
Assisted suicide goes through medical professionals. Also, a clean suicide (when it is expect) is better than one where the family are in total shock and have to clean it up after. Suicides happen regardless.
Some people do indeed advocate the legalisation of all drugs.
Finally, gun control rarely means banning of all guns. It normally means that a licence is required and regulation is in place. In other words you would be allowed to own a gun as an adult, as long as you prove you are fit to use it.

Also your logic of taking the extreme of the argument is akin to anti-gay marriage people saying "If you expand marriage to more than just to a man and a woman, why stop there? Why not allow a man and a tree to get married?" It's flawed logic and you know it.

Greyham

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I care because if I didn't I would simply kill myself.

See this is the important part.

On some deep level everyone cares. And though people may complain or be down etc most hang on. Most do not kill themselves because underneath it they do care. They want to live. They want to be a part of all this even if they claim they don't

The Barefoot Pizza Thief

AH cares a lot about disasters, fires, floods, and killer bees, about the nasa shuttle falling in the sea, about the gamblers and the pressures and the geeks, the smack and crap and wack that hits the streets, about the wellfare of all you boys and girls, about the army navy airforce and marines, about the garbage pail kids; they never lie, about transformers 'cause there's more than meets the eye, about the little things, the bigger things we top, about you people, yeah you bet we care a lot.

EazyD

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Even a week before the expected normal birth?

(Were abortion laws to pass, it would apply to those in the initial stages of pregnancy, not those who have a last minute change if heart)

Without limits? Should a 17-year-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of a week be extended suicide rights?

(Again it specifically applies to those with terminal illness/physical ailments that considerably reduce quality of life)

Why not all drugs?

(Because quite obviously not all drugs are the same, not all drugs are safe, or dangerous by equal measure, some synthetic, some are natural, common sense prevails in this field as much as the next study)

Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

(Because chances are you have no solid reason to own a firearm, as is the case with most civilians on earth)

Lingua Franca

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

AH cares a lot about disasters, fires, floods, and killer bees, about the nasa shuttle falling in the sea, about the gamblers and the pressures and the geeks, the smack and crap and wack that hits the streets, about the wellfare of all you boys and girls, about the army navy airforce and marines, about the garbage pail kids; they never lie, about transformers 'cause there's more than meets the eye, about the little things, the bigger things we top, about you people, yeah you bet we care a lot.

Well it's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

UCDVet

Isn't prostitution already legal?

UCDVet

EazyD wrote: »

(Because chances are you have no solid reason to own a firearm, as is the case with most civilians on earth)

'solid reason' is highly subjective.

tim3000

Alter-Ego wrote: »

I've heard this from people quite a bit. If you choose to sell your body for sex, that's you own business, and how can it be degrading?

Your first and second sentences above contradict each other.

You are right. I suppose I need to re-examine my views on it but I believe it is wrong to use a woman solely for sex

Liam90

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

Why would you need a gun?

highvisjacket

i dont care much for liberals,but progressives are worse,its all the buzz now ''progressive''... heres a link i have found to be educational.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK7VRkbGiU

UCDVet

Liam90 wrote: »

Why would you need a gun?

Having a gun is a lot like having a fire extinguisher (ignoring things like hunting or shooting for entertainment/sport). Most people will never *need* either. And even if you have one, it might not help you.

But if my kitchen starts on fire, it'd be really nice to have one.
And if someone breaks into my house, it'd be really nice to have a gun.

It's really sad that we live in a world where people are brutally robbed, stabbed, beaten, raped and murdered. But it happens. Even in a relatively safe country like Ireland - it happens.

Now, maybe you are a super fit, healthy, tough guy who can protect his family from whomever decides to mess with them. If someone breaks in your window, you'll throw punches and do some ninja-back flip and show them whose boss. But *I* can't do that. I'm kinda old, kinda chubby. My day job doesn't revolve around me being a badass. I don't train MMA and I never learned to box. If *one* guy wanted to kick my ass - he probably could. If he has a knife, I'm screwed. And if he has 1-2 friends with him, there isn't a damn thing I could do. Quite literally, my life would be in their hands. And all of that is doubly true for my wife.

So, in the (thankfully) rare situation that someone is going to disregard the law and decides you will be their victim....that's when a lot of people would wish they had a gun. A guy with a knife can absolutely kill me - but I probably couldn't hurt him and my wife certainly couldn't. With guns - we've all got a fair chance. A guy with a gun can kill me - but if I've got a gun, I can kill him to. My wife, with a gun, could kill him. The stakes might be higher, but I'd rather have a gun than sit there and home the crazy/drug addicted/mentally unstable criminal(s) who are breaking into my house are the kind that just want to rob me and not kill me.

Pug160

Some of those issues are not black and white and it's tough for me to decide what I think would be right. I know tight gun control laws in the UK have prevented deaths but it does give criminals an awful lot of power, especially in the big cities. The gender pay gap issue is something I'm not sure I can even define. Isn't it just about the choices different genders make and wage negotiation etc?

juice1304

[QUOTE=Pug160;84474738. I know tight gun control laws in the UK have prevented deaths [/QUOTE]

Back up this statement with facts, Show how restricting law-abiding firearms owners has anything to do with criminal shooting each other.
Because to own a firearm here or in the uk you have to have a very squeaky clean record you can't get into any trouble and could lose your firearms over something as simple as a speeding ticket.
If only you knew the amount of red tape and utter bullsh1t you have to go trough for each firearm along with giving up some of your civil liberties the Gardai can enter my home whenever they like to check my security and inspect my firearms without a warrant.
People who own firearms legally have nothing to do with the criminals who shoot each other, People who own legally held firearms in this country are the ones who won't be breaking the law. They just recently banned all centrefire pistols here unless you had a licence prior to 2008 even though there had never been a legally held one used in a crime. Do you not think if they can import tons of cocaine and heroin etc.. that they could manage a few firearms too.
If you believe banning something will stop criminals from having it you need your head checked.

Alter-Ego

juice1304 wrote: »

Back up this statement with facts, Show how restricting law-abiding firearms owners has anything to do with criminal shooting each other.
Because to own a firearm here or in the uk you have to have a very squeaky clean record you can't get into any trouble and could lose your firearms over something as simple as a speeding ticket.
If only you knew the amount of red tape and utter bullsh1t you have to go trough for each firearm along with giving up some of your civil liberties the Gardai can enter my home whenever they like to check my security and inspect my firearms without a warrant.
People who own firearms legally have nothing to do with the criminals who shoot each other, People who own legally held firearms in this country are the ones who won't be breaking the law. They just recently banned all centrefire pistols here unless you had a licence prior to 2008 even though there had never been a legally held one used in a crime. Do you not think if they can import tons of cocaine and heroin etc.. that they could manage a few firearms too.
If you believe banning something will stop criminals from having it you need your head checked.

Do you own a gun?

You come across a bit irate in your post, so I really hope you don't own a gun... :pac:

Pug160

juice1304 wrote: »

Back up this statement with facts, Show how restricting law-abiding firearms owners has anything to do with criminal shooting each other.
Because to own a firearm here or in the uk you have to have a very squeaky clean record you can't get into any trouble and could lose your firearms over something as simple as a speeding ticket.
If only you knew the amount of red tape and utter bullsh1t you have to go trough for each firearm along with giving up some of your civil liberties the Gardai can enter my home whenever they like to check my security and inspect my firearms without a warrant.
People who own firearms legally have nothing to do with the criminals who shoot each other, People who own legally held firearms in this country are the ones who won't be breaking the law. They just recently banned all centrefire pistols here unless you had a licence prior to 2008 even though there had never been a legally held one used in a crime. Do you not think if they can import tons of cocaine and heroin etc.. that they could manage a few firearms too.
If you believe banning something will stop criminals from having it you need your head checked.

Actually, you're preaching to the converted. The gun laws have prevented further Dunblane and Hungerford massacres - although I acknowledge that those types of incidents never occurred very often. But I'm not sold on the idea that very strict laws are a great idea. It gives much more power to the criminal.

The problem is that it only takes one or two terrible incidents and people are up in arms about gun laws, which is understandable. It all depends what people's priorities are.

Galwayguy35

errlloyd wrote: »

I care a lot. I'm very liberal, I believe in abortion on demand, assisted suicide, gay marriage, gay adoption, legalised marijuana, decriminalised prostitution, strict gun control and closing the gender pay gap. But I am a male, non drug user, heterosexual, Irish national, and I can't imagine every wanting to use a prostitute or end my life early.

Yet every day I allow the fact that these things don't happen in my country annoy me. The truth is Ireland is FUBAR, and I don't need to tell after hours this, you already know. But the worst part about Ireland is that no matter how much democracy I get I can't vote for any of the things I talk about above.

FF and FG have a political duopoly, both are conservative and neither are willing to compromise. Neither party are ever even going to call for a referendum on one of the above, because they know the might lose. Both parties will purposely avoid democracy because they know they can. No one else in Ireland can call a referendum (except the president on a piece of law, but it's never been done).

I let this irritate me, I campaign to change it and I see people campaigning to change it, but the truth is even if all of those social policies existed as I wanted them it would have no impact on my life whatsoever.

So surely I'd be better off just not giving a damn? I don't understand why I care?

Why do you care?

Sounds like you worry too much, Ireland has very strict gun laws, the rest of the things on your list I couldn't care less about as they don't affect me.

Scruffles

if people didnt stick up for things that dont affect them then the world woud be fcuked,especialy when the group being stuck up for is a minority in comparison.

people need to get off their arses and indulge in activism which can be done in many ways,stick up for what believe in,not just complain about it on forums.

I lack empathy....and iron.

lacking empathy isnt a inability to care,its about being unable to understand someone else and their circumstances,if are able to relate to them in some way there is no saying how passionate can be to help them.

am clinicaly absent of empathy but have a shte ton of care for animals and people from vulnerable groups such as disabled,mentaly ill,elderly etc, am a autism and intelectual disability activist,an advocate for two profoundly autistic adults am living with,a campaigner for safe social networking for adults with id/ld and for cyber bullying support services of id/ld adults-have got a lot of support from the council/social services,and have been asked by two autism organisations if woud like to merge sites with them;its only been online for two weeks, am also a volunteer at a horse and pony sanctuary as care for animals more than woud do for self/any human.

Clandestine

Scruffles wrote: »

am clinicaly absent of empathy but have a shte ton of care for animals and people from vulnerable groups.

So you have empathy then it seems.

Chucken

Chucken wrote: »

Can you answer my post?

How do you know these things will never affect you?

Obviously they don't know for sure, how can anyone? Get over it

NuckingFacker

If it's any consolation OP, I largely don't care. I don't care for sports - I'll watch them when they start paying to watch me work. I don't care who marries who or when. I don't care what people put in their bodies, none of my business. I don't care if people want an abortion- knock yourself out. I don't care what people sell, they couldn't sell it if some eejit didn't want to buy it and I don't care about gossip. I give a damn what he said she said he did.

I do care when people harm kids. I do care when people harm animals and I do care when people opress weaker people and take advantage of them making their lives a misery. I also hate incompetence, especially state sponsored incompetence. Those, I'd just do away with. The rest? I really don't care. I'm very liberal.:)

Standman

You care because it distracts you from facing up to the fact that you have a boring and inadequate life.

oppenheimer1

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah they're all valid arguments. I actually believe you should be able to abort up until the age of 18, that a 13 yr old who's parents don't buy him a smartphone should be encouraged to take assisted suicide and that we should only legalise Marajuana and Cyanide.

But I didn't think any of those things were relevant.

I'm sorry but I don't debate with trolls and/or lunatics. That entire passage above is highly objectionable.

I'm surprised I'm the first to pick up on this :eek:

errlloyd

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't debate with trolls and/or lunatics. That entire passage above is highly objectionable.

I'm surprised I'm the first to pick up on this :eek:

The quoted paragraph was a joke attacking the question. - I'm surprised you highlighted that bit and not the bit where I said I supported parents being able to abort 17 year old teenagers....

"Ask a stupid question receive a stupid answer"

beks101

I think caring deeply for every cause against humanity is just as counter-productive as not giving a shte, as it will set you up for a hefty dose of misery and bitterness.

Sometimes you have to choose your battles if you want a shot at any ounce of happiness in this life.

oppenheimer1

errlloyd wrote: »

The quoted paragraph was a joke attacking the question. - I'm surprised you highlighted that bit and not the bit where I said I supported parents being able to abort 17 year old teenagers....

"Ask a stupid question receive a stupid answer"

Well why do you believe in limits to any freedoms? Why shouldn't everyone have guns? Why shouldn't every drug be freely available? Why should the pay gap between genders be artificially closed?

Pinewoo

I don't care about those things (gay marriage, abortion, marijuana, assisted suicide and other current media trends /current discussion topics)

I do find it strange how much press coverage they get given things like the massacre of children in Syria and worst human rights crisis in history unveiling before our eyes and no end in sight..

errlloyd

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Well why do you believe in limits to any freedoms? Why shouldn't everyone have guns? Why shouldn't every drug be freely available? Why should the pay gap between genders be artificially closed?

I'm 6ft2. If I told you I was tall would you reply "no your not, the empire state building is 1,400 feet tall, you're short"

Of course you wouldn't. Because you understand the basic premise that height is relative. And when I say "I am tall" what I actually mean is that I am taller than most people, or a lot of people.

So when I say "I am liberal" why do you jump to an extreme where you think I believe in no laws.

As for guns and drugs...

"Your right to swing your first ends where my nose begins" is pretty much where I am at. As far as I can tell there is no reason why anyone would own a gun other than to infringe on other people's rights. It's not that I don't trust people not to shoot other people, it's that I don't trust people to mind their guns properly.

With drugs I just don't really know enough to comment. Marijuana seems a good start no?

Cody Pomeray

The OP asks a very interesting question and I think his OP is getting an unfair level of criticism.

Why do we care about each other's projects or suffering when they do not directly affect our individual happiness? That's an important question.

It's a question whose answers are in evolutionary biology.

Think about the earliest humans. Small individuals, with only two legs, living mainly on plants and berries. Hardly ferocious predators. How did we manage our survival? Probably by sharing resources and living in large herds for protection. We selected for characteristics of mutual co-operation in protecting each other.

Later, within those groups, individual families and family elders would select spouses who were likely to be providers, capable of providing not only for a spouse but for the wider family circle. Perhaps this is part of the reason why human beings tend to be most altruistic at the community level, and most selfish at the international level.

It's an interesting question OP, there is plenty of literature on co-operation and altruism in human species, one of the best, if you ever get a chance to read it, is Origins of Altruism and Cooperation by Sussman & Cloninger.

oppenheimer1

errlloyd wrote: »

I'm 6ft2. If I told you I was tall would you reply "no your not, the empire state building is 1,400 feet tall, you're short"

Of course you wouldn't. Because you understand the basic premise that height is relative. And when I say "I am tall" what I actually mean is that I am taller than most people, or a lot of people.

So when I say "I am liberal" why do you jump to an extreme where you think I believe in no laws.

As for guns and drugs...

"Your right to swing your first ends where my nose begins" is pretty much where I am at. As far as I can tell there is no reason why anyone would own a gun other than to infringe on other people's rights. It's not that I don't trust people not to shoot other people, it's that I don't trust people to mind their guns properly.

With drugs I just don't really know enough to comment. Marijuana seems a good start no?

You haven't given a reason why you believe limits to freedom might be a good idea.

Do you believe a thing such as society exists?

kc90

belcampprisoner wrote: »

it does not make you liberal



Merriam-Webster defines Liberal in several ways…

1. of or befitting a man of free birth
2. marked by generosity
3. lacking moral restraint
4. not literal or strict
5. not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
Let’s add into the mix – via dictionary.com - a few more definitions of Liberal.
◾favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
◾noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
◾favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
◾favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

What, exactly, are you saying doesn't make you liberal? Fascinating as it was reading dictionary excerpts, I only skimmed over them and they seem to be along the same lines as the op.

Ruudi_Mentari

I care. That is all