Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Why do you care?

  • 05-05-2013 02:39AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭


    I care a lot. I'm very liberal, I believe in abortion on demand, assisted suicide, gay marriage, gay adoption, legalised marijuana, decriminalised prostitution, strict gun control and closing the gender pay gap. But I am a male, non drug user, heterosexual, Irish national, and I can't imagine every wanting to use a prostitute or end my life early.

    Yet every day I allow the fact that these things don't happen in my country annoy me. The truth is Ireland is FUBAR, and I don't need to tell after hours this, you already know. But the worst part about Ireland is that no matter how much democracy I get I can't vote for any of the things I talk about above.

    FF and FG have a political duopoly, both are conservative and neither are willing to compromise. Neither party are ever even going to call for a referendum on one of the above, because they know the might lose. Both parties will purposely avoid democracy because they know they can. No one else in Ireland can call a referendum (except the president on a piece of law, but it's never been done).

    I let this irritate me, I campaign to change it and I see people campaigning to change it, but the truth is even if all of those social policies existed as I wanted them it would have no impact on my life whatsoever.

    So surely I'd be better off just not giving a damn? I don't understand why I care?

    Why do you care?


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,572 ✭✭✭✭brummytom


    I don't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,463 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    It's funny how you can say you're "liberal" and then in the same sentence say you want strict control of something.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    People be all pissed off and ****


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    It's funny how you can say you're "liberal" and then in the same sentence say you want strict control of something.

    Yeah I'll concede that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I campaign to change it and I see people campaigning to change it, but the truth is even if all of those social policies existed as I wanted them it would have no impact on my life whatsoever.

    How do you know these things will never impact on your life?

    If or when they do, you might or will change your mind about them.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Much as I'm convinced that the vast majority of people in a position of any power in Ireland are almost uniformly ignorant, petty, short-sighted, corrupt, greedy, populist, spineless f*cktards, and the people who vote them into power are about as much to blame for not calling them out on their bullsh*t, I do actually quite like this country. I'd like to continue living here, and I'd like those of my friends who like it here to do the same. Considering that several of those friends can't get married here, or can't trust the health system if they become pregnant, or lost their jobs due to past governments raping the country's economy, and in at least one case can't die on his own terms, or are otherwise restricted or demonised by the establishment, such wishes are unlikely to be realistic.

    So it's either give up on a really rather nice place with some very lovely people let down by a pathetic lack of civic duty or downright evil people in charge, or stay and try to make things better. The last mass emigration didn't do this place any favours. I'd like to at least try to save Ireland from itself, even just a little.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 698 ✭✭✭belcampprisoner


    it does not make you liberal



    Merriam-Webster defines Liberal in several ways…

    1. of or befitting a man of free birth
    2. marked by generosity
    3. lacking moral restraint
    4. not literal or strict
    5. not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
    Let’s add into the mix – via dictionary.com - a few more definitions of Liberal.
    ◾favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
    ◾noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
    ◾favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
    ◾favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I believe in abortion on demand

    Even a week before the expected normal birth?
    assisted suicide

    Without limits? Should a 17-year-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of a week be extended suicide rights?
    legalised marijuana

    Why not all drugs?
    strict gun control

    Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭tim3000


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I care a lot. I'm very liberal, I believe in abortion on demand, assisted suicide, gay marriage, gay adoption, legalised marijuana, decriminalised prostitution, strict gun control and closing the gender pay gap. But I am a male, non drug user, heterosexual, Irish national, and I can't imagine every wanting to use a prostitute or end my life early.

    Yet every day I allow the fact that these things don't happen in my country annoy me. The truth is Ireland is FUBAR, and I don't need to tell after hours this, you already know. But the worst part about Ireland is that no matter how much democracy I get I can't vote for any of the things I talk about above.

    FF and FG have a political duopoly, both are conservative and neither are willing to compromise. Neither party are ever even going to call for a referendum on one of the above, because they know the might lose. Both parties will purposely avoid democracy because they know they can. No one else in Ireland can call a referendum (except the president on a piece of law, but it's never been done).

    I let this irritate me, I campaign to change it and I see people campaigning to change it, but the truth is even if all of those social policies existed as I wanted them it would have no impact on my life whatsoever.

    So surely I'd be better off just not giving a damn? I don't understand why I care?

    Why do you care?


    I have a policy of if it doesn't affect me directly or the people that I am close to well then let it go ahead. I am a very apathetic person. I would like to see gay marriage, I am pro choice (would vote that way in a referendum) but anti abortion overall, I believe in assisted suicide for the unhealthy. As for the prostitution thing I wouldn't like that just due to how degrading it is for the women involved. I would classify myself as a liberal let people make their own choices and mistakes it's not for me to tell someone how to live their live as I wouldn't like people telling me how to lie mine. However you asked what makes a person care perhaps they can afford to care.

    I mean people with their lives sorted out steady jobs/careers stable home life etc these are the people that can afford to care and are the most vociferous about these social issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Even a week before the expected normal birth?

    Without limits? Should a 17-year-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of a week be extended suicide rights?

    Why not all drugs?

    Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

    Yeah they're all valid arguments. I actually believe you should be able to abort up until the age of 18, that a 13 yr old who's parents don't buy him a smartphone should be encouraged to take assisted suicide and that we should only legalise Marajuana and Cyanide.

    But I didn't think any of those things were relevant.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Why do you care?

    Because I'm a mother, a daughter, a grandaughter, a sister, a cousin, an aunt, a friend, a colleague. I know and care about people affected by most of the issues you mentioned and I'm affected by some myself. I want what's best for the people I know (and even the people I don't know because I can empathise with them)- and for the most part, what's best for people is not discrimination, restrictions and judgemental outdated laws which were created with an ethos peculiar to one religion that's currently having it's last gasps, but having self-determination.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    Chucken wrote: »
    How do you know these things will never impact on your life?

    If or when they do, you might or will change your mind about them.
    errlloyd wrote: »
    Yeah they're all valid arguments. I actually believe you should be able to abort up until the age of 18, that a 13 yr old who's parents don't buy him a smartphone should be encouraged to take assisted suicide and that we should only legalise Marajuana and Cyanide.

    But I didn't think any of those things were relevant.

    Can you answer my post?

    How do you know these things will never affect you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    Assisted suicide for folk with terminal illness would be my only rule.

    Abortion,gay marriage/adoption,drug legalisation,prostitution etc is all fine by me.

    Not a fan of making decisions for other people.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    I lack empathy....and iron.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Chucken wrote: »
    Can you answer my post?

    How do you know these things will never affect you?

    Why did you quote two posts above that have nothing to do with each other or the OP? And why does your question matter to the OP?

    I am part of a unique space program, I am flying on a one way ticket to Mars next month so I'm not worried about them. - Happy.

    I'm reasonably confident they won't have an effect on my life. In any case it's irrelevant. The point of making that statement was emphasising that personal gain from those things is not what motivates me. If it was what motivated me, I wouldn't be asking what motivates me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Why did you quote two posts above that have nothing to do with each other or the OP? And why does your question matter to the OP?

    I am part of a unique space program, I am flying on a one way ticket to Mars next month so I'm not worried about them. - Happy.

    I'm reasonably confident they won't have an effect on my life. In any case it's irrelevant. The point of making that statement was emphasising that personal gain from those things is not what motivates me. If it was what motivated me, I wouldn't be asking what motivates me.

    I made a mistake with the multiquote, ok?

    You still didnt answer. You dont know, you cant know, if any of those things will ever affect you.

    Being "reasonably confident" is great, but you dont know!

    So maybe you should rethink why you support all those things?

    EDIT: And maybe try lose the attitude??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Chucken wrote: »

    So maybe you should rethink why you support all those things?

    Eh... That's kinda the point of the thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    It's more upsetting to me that children are brought up in a flawed education system which doesn't encourage or attempt to develop the persons rational thought or creativity, and that everyone should want to be a doctor or dentist, and that those that don't aim "high", as the system has defined, are inherently failures.
    I care because if I didn't I would simply kill myself. What's the point going through the motions if you aren't passionate about anything? I don't understand how people can do things dependently.
    I'm struggling to not become completely anti-establishment, but I don't agree with many of the preconconcepted norms I am expected to abide to.
    The more you think about why you should care the less reasons there really are, you're never going to fix the system and there's no escaping the system.
    I care about everything I bother to do and I have no time for anyone who does something without asking why.
    4am angry rambling because this topic is always on my mind.

    Does anyone actually have a choice on caring or not? I wish I could not care because that would be a lot easier. Imagine how wonderful the world would be if one found the xfactor amusing. Capitalism is a personal entertainer creating content and the means to acquire it. Imagine how blissful life would be if you could completely buy into it.

    Sent from my iphone, I must be their favourite kind of fool, the one who thinks he is enlightened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Alter-Ego


    tim3000 wrote: »
    As for the prostitution thing I wouldn't like that just due to how degrading it is for the women involved. I would classify myself as a liberal let people make their own choices and mistakes it's not for me to tell someone how to live their live as I wouldn't like people telling me how to lie mine.

    I've heard this from people quite a bit. If you choose to sell your body for sex, that's you own business, and how can it be degrading?

    Your first and second sentences above contradict each other.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 308 ✭✭PunkFreud


    Even a week before the expected normal birth?



    Without limits? Should a 17-year-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of a week be extended suicide rights?



    Why not all drugs?



    Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

    I think all of your points are valid, but you're taking the extremes of the freedoms.
    Abortion tends to be regulated so that a baby due within x weeks cant be aborted.
    Assisted suicide goes through medical professionals. Also, a clean suicide (when it is expect) is better than one where the family are in total shock and have to clean it up after. Suicides happen regardless.
    Some people do indeed advocate the legalisation of all drugs.
    Finally, gun control rarely means banning of all guns. It normally means that a licence is required and regulation is in place. In other words you would be allowed to own a gun as an adult, as long as you prove you are fit to use it.

    Also your logic of taking the extreme of the argument is akin to anti-gay marriage people saying "If you expand marriage to more than just to a man and a woman, why stop there? Why not allow a man and a tree to get married?" It's flawed logic and you know it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Greyham


    I care because if I didn't I would simply kill myself.

    See this is the important part.

    On some deep level everyone cares. And though people may complain or be down etc most hang on. Most do not kill themselves because underneath it they do care. They want to live. They want to be a part of all this even if they claim they don't


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 240 ✭✭The Barefoot Pizza Thief


    AH cares a lot about disasters, fires, floods, and killer bees, about the nasa shuttle falling in the sea, about the gamblers and the pressures and the geeks, the smack and crap and wack that hits the streets, about the wellfare of all you boys and girls, about the army navy airforce and marines, about the garbage pail kids; they never lie, about transformers 'cause there's more than meets the eye, about the little things, the bigger things we top, about you people, yeah you bet we care a lot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭EazyD


    Even a week before the expected normal birth?

    (Were abortion laws to pass, it would apply to those in the initial stages of pregnancy, not those who have a last minute change if heart)

    Without limits? Should a 17-year-old who just broke up with his/her BF/GF of a week be extended suicide rights?

    (Again it specifically applies to those with terminal illness/physical ailments that considerably reduce quality of life)

    Why not all drugs?

    (Because quite obviously not all drugs are the same, not all drugs are safe, or dangerous by equal measure, some synthetic, some are natural, common sense prevails in this field as much as the next study)

    Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

    (Because chances are you have no solid reason to own a firearm, as is the case with most civilians on earth)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    AH cares a lot about disasters, fires, floods, and killer bees, about the nasa shuttle falling in the sea, about the gamblers and the pressures and the geeks, the smack and crap and wack that hits the streets, about the wellfare of all you boys and girls, about the army navy airforce and marines, about the garbage pail kids; they never lie, about transformers 'cause there's more than meets the eye, about the little things, the bigger things we top, about you people, yeah you bet we care a lot.

    Well it's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Isn't prostitution already legal?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    EazyD wrote: »
    (Because chances are you have no solid reason to own a firearm, as is the case with most civilians on earth)

    'solid reason' is highly subjective.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭tim3000


    Alter-Ego wrote: »
    I've heard this from people quite a bit. If you choose to sell your body for sex, that's you own business, and how can it be degrading?

    Your first and second sentences above contradict each other.

    You are right. I suppose I need to re-examine my views on it but I believe it is wrong to use a woman solely for sex


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭Liam90


    Why shouldn't I, as a responsible adult, be allowed to own a gun?

    Why would you need a gun?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 highvisjacket


    i dont care much for liberals,but progressives are worse,its all the buzz now ''progressive''... heres a link i have found to be educational.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwK7VRkbGiU


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Liam90 wrote: »
    Why would you need a gun?

    Having a gun is a lot like having a fire extinguisher (ignoring things like hunting or shooting for entertainment/sport). Most people will never *need* either. And even if you have one, it might not help you.

    But if my kitchen starts on fire, it'd be really nice to have one.
    And if someone breaks into my house, it'd be really nice to have a gun.

    It's really sad that we live in a world where people are brutally robbed, stabbed, beaten, raped and murdered. But it happens. Even in a relatively safe country like Ireland - it happens.

    Now, maybe you are a super fit, healthy, tough guy who can protect his family from whomever decides to mess with them. If someone breaks in your window, you'll throw punches and do some ninja-back flip and show them whose boss. But *I* can't do that. I'm kinda old, kinda chubby. My day job doesn't revolve around me being a badass. I don't train MMA and I never learned to box. If *one* guy wanted to kick my ass - he probably could. If he has a knife, I'm screwed. And if he has 1-2 friends with him, there isn't a damn thing I could do. Quite literally, my life would be in their hands. And all of that is doubly true for my wife.

    So, in the (thankfully) rare situation that someone is going to disregard the law and decides you will be their victim....that's when a lot of people would wish they had a gun. A guy with a knife can absolutely kill me - but I probably couldn't hurt him and my wife certainly couldn't. With guns - we've all got a fair chance. A guy with a gun can kill me - but if I've got a gun, I can kill him to. My wife, with a gun, could kill him. The stakes might be higher, but I'd rather have a gun than sit there and home the crazy/drug addicted/mentally unstable criminal(s) who are breaking into my house are the kind that just want to rob me and not kill me.


Advertisement