having a drink the night before minding my child

lifeandtimes

Hi everyone id like some outside opinions on this...

My ex and I have been broken up a few months and I access to my 8 month old daughter on Wednesday evenings and all day Saturday from 12.
Things are not great with the ex however twice she has denied me access due to me havig a drink the night before.
The first time was after good friday,i jade planned to bring our day out to the zoo,i went to a a going away party the night before,didnt bring any drink because I purposely didnt want get drunk or hungover,however at the party I was given 3 or four beers throughout the night,i left early say about 12 and went home.
I wokr up early and cleaned my apartment as my ex was coming over to check my apartment and make sure it was ok for my daughter to stay and be there,i was in no way hungover or drunk but when I went to pick up my daughter she wouldn't allow me because she could smell beer on my breath,now unfortunately that's just how it sits in my mouth I could have a couple and it stays in my mouth,i had showered and brush my teeth but it just stays in my mouth...too say I was devastated was an understatement and I left.
I said I would go to courts and an argument for a couple of days happend,she said she didnt want me drinking on friday nights before I see my daughter,i told her what I do Friday is my own business and if I want to have a few beers on a friday night I will but after a week things calmed down so I ket it go.
Come to this friday,i had a hard week in work(also I do not drink during the week) so I bought a four pack of beer,a Chinese and settled in for the night to catch up on tv and relax.
I was up at 8 on Saturday morning and text to see how my daughter was(also I text 4 times a day everyday to check in on my daughter) amd got a reply saying"i assume you were not drinking last night" I explained I stayed in and had four beers watching tv with my Chinese,she lost it and told me I shouldn't come over because I wasnt taking my daughter and she wouldn't be there as I had been drinking and she told me not too.
I was ddevastated again...having done the drinkaware calculater I had 6.72 standard drinks from 7 in the evening until 1 in the morning..meaning any alcohol would have been out of my system by 3 o clock in the morning and I would be abke to drive a car the next morning however she will not let me have my time with my daughter.
What makes it worse is she doesnt understand that i love and respect my daughter and would never put her in harms way either with anyone else or with me and if I was not in a frame of mind or capable of minding her due to alcohol I would make my ex aware and would not take her,bith these occasions were not this case

What id like is other people's views on this,i am going to court to get access but id like opinions and views on my current situation

Thanks for reading
.

username123

Is she a non drinker herself?

It sound very extreme to be honest although I dont know if you have alcohol issues or have in the past had problems with alcohol.

It sounds like there are more underlying issues with trust that you are not going into. Its not normal for one parent to check another parents apartment when a child is to be staying there - unless there are other issues at play here.

Given that you only see your child twice a week, surely you could just not drink the nights before those times? Just in terms of keeping the peace? If you know that a few beers is going to cause this much hassle - surely seeing your child is more important than 4 beers? I appreciate you do not want to be dictated to but my gut tells me there is only one side of the story being told here.

lifeandtimes

username123 wrote: »

Is she a non drinker herself?

It sound very extreme to be honest although I dont know if you have alcohol issues or have in the past had problems with alcohol.

It sounds like there are more underlying issues with trust that you are not going into. Its not normal for one parent to check another parents apartment when a child is to be staying there - unless there are other issues at play here.

Given that you only see your child twice a week, surely you could just not drink the nights before those times? Just in terms of keeping the peace? If you know that a few beers is going to cause this much hassle - surely seeing your child is more important than 4 beers? I appreciate you do not want to be dictated to but my gut tells me there is only one side of the story being told here.

Hi thanks for your reply,no iv no issues with alcohol past or present and your right it is that easy and I dont drink before them days,i would only have a drink at the weekend if even,its just this friday I felt like having a couple to unwind.

My ex is a very over protective parent I think and this is affecting her decision,no two sides to the story on this one,this id the full story and im an honest person who has no problem admitting when im wrong...that's why im asking for views on this...i was under the impression that a couple on a friday should ne no big deal,granted if I was drinking while minding my child or extremely hungover I would fully understand however I do not drink in excess amd have never given a reason to why I cannot be trusted with my daughter

username123

Well I dont think it is a big deal, and I dont think any court would think its a big deal and no one is entitled to dictate to you how you live, and if access is agreed she has no right to do anything other than deliver the child to you - provided she thinks the child is not in any danger. Is it court ordered access? If not, perhaps it would be worth formalising it through the courts so she cannot mess you around?

In terms of keeping the peace - sometimes the best solution is simply the easy way to tread and allow some time to pass and things to settle and for her to trust you during access. If you feel she will continue to be unreasonable though then perhaps there is little point in you being reasonable?

There is an element here that you need to stand up for yourself, and to that end maybe you could consider seeing a solicitor - perhaps even a solicitors letter might set her straight that you are serious in your intentions for access and not to be denied because she doesnt like you having a beer?

BUT - Im more inclined to go with the softly softly approach personally, you get more out of people when you are nice to them than when you wave a stick at them - you know?

It seems strange though that one parent mistrusts another parent to this degree (checking the apartment, refusing access for 4 beers) and thats why I think there is more to it. Perhaps I am wrong and she is just an angry unreasonable individual.

ElleEm

I know that your ex seems to behaving to the extreme, but if I had a child, I certainly would not be happy leaving them with someone who smelled like alcohol.

My own personal views of having kids around alcohol/ people under the influence of alcohol would be fairly strict too, so I do see where your ex is coming from. You are telling your ex the number of drinks you have had, and I don't know if this is her issue or whether she doesn't believe that you have not been on a bender, but a major issue for me would be that there is a smell of alcohol from you, and I just don't think that is ever okay around a child.

I also agree with Username, you only see your daughter two days a week, so you should really be doing everything in your power to ensure that these visits go smoothly, especially until you have been to court and get guardianship and access sorted legally.

ted1

your Ex sounds crazy. As long as your not pissed, or over the limit when drivign i fail to see the issue. I don't know any parent who doesn't enjoy a few drinks in the evening when the kids are upstairs asleep.

a few drinks the night before is perfectly OK. everthing in moderation.

when did yo break up? is there a reason why she is over protective? did she suffer from post natal depression?

lifeandtimes

ElleEm wrote: »

I know that your ex seems to behaving to the extreme, but if I had a child, I certainly would not be happy leaving them with someone who smelled like alcohol.

My own personal views of having kids around alcohol/ people under the influence of alcohol would be fairly strict too, so I do see where your ex is coming from. You are telling your ex the number of drinks you have had, and I don't know if this is her issue or whether she doesn't believe that you have not been on a bender, but a major issue for me would be that there is a smell of alcohol from you, and I just don't think that is ever okay around a child.

I also agree with Username, you only see your daughter two days a week, so you should really be doing everything in your power to ensure that these visits go smoothly, especially until you have been to court and get guardianship and access sorted legally.

Hi just a further point id like to make is my ex goes out occasionnally and would be drinking until all hours and has her parents mind our daughter and says that theeu wouldn't bring her back until the next afternoon...seems a bit hypocritical thats she can go out on a night out and then take care of our child where as I cant enjoy a couple of beers while staying in the night before i mind her...thats one of the reasons for the post to see how people view this situation

ElleEm

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hi just a further point id like to make is my ex goes out occasionnally and would be drinking until all hours and has her parents mind our daughter and says that theeu wouldn't bring her back until the next afternoon...seems a bit hypocritical thats she can go out on a night out and then take care of our child where as I cant enjoy a couple of beers while staying in the night before i mind her...thats one of the reasons for the post to see how people view this situation

That certainly does seem hypocritical, but could the issue be that you are actually smelling of drink? I know some people are different, and it depends on what you are drinking, but some people can reek of booze the day after and others don't. The idea of leaving someone who stinks of drink in charge of an 8 month old baby does not sit well with me at all, regardless of whether it was one or ten beers the night before. I don't mean to seem harsh, as you do seem to be a really decent man. You seem to be putting up with a lot in terms of your ex's expectations of you, but I am just giving my opinion on the drinking and kids situation.

username123

I dont think you should be concentrating on any kind of tit for tat here, but just on ensuring that you facilitate your relationship with your child.

Im not sure what is to be achieved to be examining what she does versus what you do bar build up resentment.

In simple terms, you see your child twice a week, there are problems if you drink before those occasions - adult answer - dont drink on tuesday or friday nights. Thats it, its that simple.

Given what you have posted I will say again that I think there are deeper issues at play here. No one behaves like the gestapo when they trust the other parent.

Overthrow

got a reply saying"i assume you were not drinking last night" I explained I stayed in and had four beers watching tv with my Chinese

You shouldn't be entertaining these kind of questions. She's no right to know what you do in your own time. As long as you're fit to mind your daughter, that's all that really matters.

No reasonable person would disqualify someone from minding their child because they had a few quiet beers the night before. Unfortunately if you smell of booze the next day that's a problem you'll have to deal with and the easiest way may very well be to just not drink.

Nevertheless it's not her business, it's up to her to decide at the time whether you're fit to mind her or not and not base it on what you've done in your own private time.

The unreasonable behavior may be an unfortunate by product of you trying to defend yourself.

lifeandtimes

username123 wrote: »

I dont think you should be concentrating on any kind of tit for tat here, but just on ensuring that you facilitate your relationship with your child.

Im not sure what is to be achieved to be examining what she does versus what you do bar build up resentment.

In simple terms, you see your child twice a week, there are problems if you drink before those occasions - adult answer - dont drink on tuesday or friday nights. Thats it, its that simple.

Given what you have posted I will say again that I think there are deeper issues at play here. No one behaves like the gestapo when they trust the other parent.

Thanks for you reply,yes that would be an option but it is a very dictative option would you not agree,if I go with that i dont have a drink the night before fair enough I usually dont bar these two cases but what next?she is also very health conscious with our child food wise,will I not be allowed eat fast food around our daughter ?,whats to much,when would I say enough is enough?

Also to point out I receive abuse via text messageing all of wihich iv saved,name calling and the usual hurtful stuff to which I reply being civil or not at all

thefeatheredcat

username123 wrote: »

In simple terms, you see your child twice a week, there are problems if you drink before those occasions - adult answer - dont drink on tuesday or friday nights. Thats it, its that simple.

+1 on this

The only difference I see between you drinking and her drinking is that she has support in her parents that if she wasn't capable of looking after the child or needed a bit of time despite being sober after a night out, she can go to them.

Even if someone has been drinking moderately, even without a hangover, you can still feel tired or not up full of energy and for a small child you need your wits about you and the energy to match.

You're not long out of the relationship and for whatever reason she might just be extra protective and needing to know she really, really, really can trust you - and you showing and doing something that I see as quite simple such as not drink the night before you see your child is a way of showing that you can be trusted to be responsible for the child. While you are entitled to your private life and what you do in your spare time is your business, but I would see it that anything at all that impacts my child, is my business.

Kids pick up on smells tbh having had an uncle who is an alcoholic (for most of my life since I was a child, he has been an alcoholic) the smell of alcohol even without knowing what exactly it was that I got off him I've always associated with him and never had a rapport with him like I had with other uncles or relatives. Even if you're stone cold sober while with your child but smell of alcohol she might have that imprinted on her as a memory of you. I don't think you really want her to think that, or even for others to pick up on the smell and make assumptions since I don't think you deserve that as you sound genuine in how you care about your daughter.

username123

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Thanks for you reply,yes that would be an option but it is a very dictative option would you not agree,if I go with that i dont have a drink the night before fair enough I usually dont bar these two cases but what next?she is also very health conscious with our child food wise,will I not be allowed eat fast food around our daughter ?,whats to much,when would I say enough is enough?

Also to point out I receive abuse via text messageing all of wihich iv saved,name calling and the usual hurtful stuff to which I reply being civil or not at all

Look, don't take your eye off the ball here. The big picture is you spending time with your child. Projecting possible futures or brooding about being dictated to is only wasting your own time and energy. Sometimes we have to deal with difficult people. Making waves is only gonna harm you in the long run. Don't give her a reason to complain or worry. It WILL blow over and settle down, all things change. Just be nice, civil, considerate and accomodating. It's not about her dictating to you, it's about you doing all you can for YOURSELF and your child.

Powerhouse

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hi everyone id like some outside opinions on this...

My ex and I have been broken up a few months and I access to my 8 month old daughter on Wednesday evenings and all day Saturday from 12.
Things are not great with the ex however twice she has denied me access due to me havig a drink the night before.
The first time was after good friday,i jade planned to bring our day out to the zoo,i went to a a going away party the night before,didnt bring any drink because I purposely didnt want get drunk or hungover,however at the party I was given 3 or four beers throughout the night,i left early say about 12 and went home.
I wokr up early and cleaned my apartment as my ex was coming over to check my apartment and make sure it was ok for my daughter to stay and be there,i was in no way hungover or drunk but when I went to pick up my daughter she wouldn't allow me because she could smell beer on my breath,now unfortunately that's just how it sits in my mouth I could have a couple and it stays in my mouth,i had showered and brush my teeth but it just stays in my mouth...too say I was devastated was an understatement and I left.
I said I would go to courts and an argument for a couple of days happend,she said she didnt want me drinking on friday nights before I see my daughter,i told her what I do Friday is my own business and if I want to have a few beers on a friday night I will but after a week things calmed down so I ket it go.
Come to this friday,i had a hard week in work(also I do not drink during the week) so I bought a four pack of beer,a Chinese and settled in for the night to catch up on tv and relax.
I was up at 8 on Saturday morning and text to see how my daughter was(also I text 4 times a day everyday to check in on my daughter) amd got a reply saying"i assume you were not drinking last night" I explained I stayed in and had four beers watching tv with my Chinese,she lost it and told me I shouldn't come over because I wasnt taking my daughter and she wouldn't be there as I had been drinking and she told me not too.
I was ddevastated again...having done the drinkaware calculater I had 6.72 standard drinks from 7 in the evening until 1 in the morning..meaning any alcohol would have been out of my system by 3 o clock in the morning and I would be abke to drive a car the next morning however she will not let me have my time with my daughter.
What makes it worse is she doesnt understand that i love and respect my daughter and would never put her in harms way either with anyone else or with me and if I was not in a frame of mind or capable of minding her due to alcohol I would make my ex aware and would not take her,bith these occasions were not this case

What id like is other people's views on this,i am going to court to get access but id like opinions and views on my current situation

Thanks for reading

Leaving aside all consideration of why your ex might have issues around drink (she could be just unreasonable or she might have genuine empirical reasons to be concerned about your drinking) there is one quite mad solution here - to not drink the night before you pick up the child? You either want to have the child or you don't. She shouldn't have to compete with drink. Sometimes for getting-on-with-it reasons we have to look beyond what people 'don't have the right to tell us'.

Overthrow

username123 wrote: »

Look, don't take your eye off the ball here. The big picture is you spending time with your child. Projecting possible futures or brooding about being dictated to is only wasting your own time and energy. Sometimes we have to deal with difficult people. Making waves is only gonna harm you in the long run. Don't give her a reason to complain or worry. It WILL blow over and settle down, all things change. Just be nice, civil, considerate and accomodating. It's not about her dictating to you, it's about you doing all you can for YOURSELF and your child.

I think this really belittles the situation OP is in. I'm not saying he should make waves, but if his experience of being a parent is being destroyed by his co-parent who (without hearing the other side of the story) sounds to be unreasonable and abusive then he should be proactive in defining what is and isn't acceptable and make efforts to come to a reasonable agreement. It sounds like the actions of the OP's co-parent are on course to having quite a negative effect on his relationship with his child.

While a lot of room has to be given to a new mum, OP is also a new parent and is not obliged to take a completely passive position and allow his relationship with his child be entirely governed by the insecurities of his co-parent.

OP, I'd suggest requesting some ground rules from your co-parent according to what they do and do not deem acceptable and go from there. Whether you deem these as reasonable or unreasonable, at least you have a better idea of what warrants (or should warrant, from their perspective) a fight.

username123

Overthrow wrote: »

I think this really belittles the situation OP is in. I'm not saying he should make waves, but if his experience of being a parent is being destroyed by his co-parent who (without hearing the other side of the story) sounds to be unreasonable and abusive then he should be proactive in defining what is and isn't acceptable and make efforts to come to a reasonable agreement. It sounds like the actions of the OP's co-parent are on course to having quite a negative effect on his relationship with his child.

I dont think you get it. Theres nothing abusive about a mother not leaving an 8 month old with someone who smells of drink. His experience of being a parent is being destroyed by drinking the night before he sees his child. Getting sidelined into "she cant tell me what to do" is not going to help the situation and is likely to make it worse.

Single fathers in this country have virtually no rights. Until he formalises things through the courts his ex holds all the cards. The actions of the mother can completely prevent any relationship a single dad has with his child. He can be as proactive as he likes but his ex may see that as him causing problems and deny access. Does she sound reasonable? No. Can you change other people? No. Who is the only person you can change? Yourself.

LegacyUser

username123 wrote: »

I dont think you get it. Theres nothing abusive about a mother not leaving an 8 month old with someone who smells of drink. His experience of being a parent is being destroyed by drinking the night before he sees his child. Getting sidelined into "she cant tell me what to do" is not going to help the situation and is likely to make it worse.

Single fathers in this country have virtually no rights. Until he formalises things through the courts his ex holds all the cards. The actions of the mother can completely prevent any relationship a single dad has with his child. He can be as proactive as he likes but his ex may see that as him causing problems and deny access. Does she sound reasonable? No. Can you change other people? No. Who is the only person you can change? Yourself.

He's not "someone" he's the childs father. The experience is being destroyed by a hypocritical spiteful, control freak of a mother, who obviously knows the OP if she has had a relationship with him, I wait to be corrected? You keep saying there must be more to it, well if there was more to it, as in the OP having a drink problem, why would she consider letting him have the child 2 days a week? The OP sounds like a responsible, mature guy and to be honest has a healthier relationship with alcohol than a lot of people in this country, his ex included. Think you need to cut the guy some slack. Any rational, sane person can see that having 4 beer with a chinese on a Friday night isn't going to harm anyone.

Overthrow

username123 wrote: »

I dont think you get it. Theres nothing abusive about a mother not leaving an 8 month old with someone who smells of drink. His experience of being a parent is being destroyed by drinking the night before he sees his child. Getting sidelined into "she cant tell me what to do" is not going to help the situation and is likely to make it worse.

Single fathers in this country have virtually no rights. Until he formalises things through the courts his ex holds all the cards. The actions of the mother can completely prevent any relationship a single dad has with his child. He can be as proactive as he likes but his ex may see that as him causing problems and deny access. Does she sound reasonable? No. Can you change other people? No. Who is the only person you can change? Yourself.

I do get it I agree that there's nothing unreasonable about not leaving an 8 month old with someone who smells of drink, but that's kind of simplifying things - it's a wider issue than this one thing. Regardless of how fit to mind his daughter he was or wasn't on that morning (and it seems to me that his ex believed that he wasn't recovering from a bender), he can indeed only do anything within his own means to better his situation and that would probably have to include not having a few beers the night before minding his daughter.

Nevertheless, IF his relationship with his daughter is going to be based around a stringent and unreasonable coparent, then he needs to be proactive in ensuring that the whole thing is partially on his terms too, and that his access or lack thereof isn't at the mercy of what he himself perceives to be uncalled for and unreasonable reactions.

As I said, I'm not saying he should make waves, but maturely defining the best approach and some guideline agreements between himself and the coparent is the best way to minimise any occurrences like that. The courts should be a last resort, and developing a strong coparenting relationship that is not just a forced legal obligation is in the best interests of the OP, the coparent and most importantly the child.

noiniho

Why don't you just have a few drinks on a Thursday or Sunday night instead? If it is because you don't want to drink before a workday then adopt the same attitude to minding your daughter.

I think your partner is being OTT, but she holds all the cards and you are not going to win this one, don't let anything prevent you from having your little daughter, especially not a few beers or petty arguments

LegacyUser

Sorry chum, I sympathise with your predicament, but drinking 4-6 beers the night before looking after your child is too much.

There is a smell of alcohol on your breath because it is still in your system, using the online units of alcohol calculator is an inprecise tool, so you might 'feel' sober and you might just pass a Breathalyser test, but the long and short of it is you're still a little bit under the influence if you're drinking late at night and then collecting child early in the morning.

Have 1 or 2 beers maximum early on the Friday night - 7/8 pm at the latest - and leave it at that.

Stench Blossoms

There are obviously more underlying issues here.

At a guess I'd assume your Ex doesn't think you are responsible enough and you've proved that by not being able to resist having a drink on the nights before you are suppose to see your daughter.

If you love your daughter as much as you say you and want to spend time with her, why not just not drink to keep your ex happy?

The simple solution to this individual problem is to not drink the night before seeing your daughter. If you can't not do this then you have a drinking problem.

pwurple

Some of this depends on if this is an ex-wife, or an ex-girlfriend. If it's a girlfriend, and you didn't arrange legal guardianship, you have sod all rights to that child. She is not related to you legally. Tread extremely carefully here. I'd jump through whatever hoops she lays out, as it's the only way you will get any access to your child.

If it's an ex-wife, you have a little more power, but like username123 says, causing a fuss is not going to help the situation and is likely to make it worse.

Just don't drink on a friday night. It's not that hard.

homerjay2005

ElleEm wrote: »

I know that your ex seems to behaving to the extreme, but if I had a child, I certainly would not be happy leaving them with someone who smelled like alcohol.

so you think that people who have children, are no longer allowed to drink alcohol? and this "someone", happens to be the childs father.

get away out of that for f*ck sake. the mother is looking for every excuse not to allow him see the child...he doesnt drink, mark my words she will find another excuse. i sincerly doubt, that unless this woman is a pioneer or a social hermit, that she never drinks at some stage of the weekend.

my advice to the OP is not to drink the next time you want to see the daugher and give this woman no reason to complain and deny access. it sucks, but until you go to court, thats the way it is. as already said, she has all the aces here and can use the alcohol excuse and bend it to what ever agenda she has.

ElleEm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so you think that people who have children, are no longer allowed to drink alcohol? and this "someone", happens to be the childs father..

Read my post properly.

I said that I think that parents should not be under the influence of alcohol around children- that's different. I gave my opinion (as requested in the OP) that it does not sit well with me that he would be in the care of a dependant baby while smelling like alcohol.

Stench Blossoms

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so you think that people who have children, are no longer allowed to drink alcohol? and this "someone", happens to be the childs father.

I don't think she was saying that.

Do you think your boss would be comfortable letting you work if they could smell drink off you? Mine certainly wouldn't.

If you aren't still drunk, have had a proper shower and brushed your teeth, and changed your clothes I can't possibly understand how someone could smell drink off you.

ElleEm

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

I don't think she was saying that.

Do you think your boss would be comfortable letting you work if they could smell drink off you? Mine certainly wouldn't.

If you aren't still drunk, have had a proper shower and brushed your teeth, and changed your clothes I can't possibly understand how someone could smell drink off you.

I suppose it depends on what you are drinking. I always smell beer off my boyfriend the day after he drinks, it's like it comes out of his pours or gut or something! I can never smell wine or vodka the next day. I think some people's bodies interact differently with scents too.

I agree regarding your "boss" comment. I know people who have been sent home and suspended/ disciplined from jobs due to the smell of alcohol off their breaths. These were jobs that involved sitting at desks and stacking shelves, nothing too hardcore. I know bus drivers can get sacked on the spot too- just for smelling of drink, not breathalised. Looking after a tiny baby is much more work than this, so I do think the mother has a right to not allow the dad to look after her while he smells of drink.

ash23

OP, can you arrange a third party to be involved in the drop off/collection of the child? For example, could your ex drop the child to your parents and then you pick her up from there?

I don't think having a few drinks the night before having the child is unacceptable. And I also don't think you should just put up with this either.

If there are no real concerns for the childs welfare (as in, your ex has no reason to suspect you would put the child in harms way) then the problem is control. She is trying to control what you do or don't do and is using access as a tool for this.
Whether this is because she is over protective or because she is still getting over the breakup, who knows. But you shouldn't have to live your life as dictated by your ex.

I'd suggest trying mediation and coming to an agreed access arrangement, preferably where she (the ex) doesn't get to see you so she can't decide you look too tired etc. She shouldn't be quizzing you on your social life or habits either (again, unless she has a genuine concern for the child).

I'm a single parent and I have a few drinks some evenings and am well able to look after my child the next day.

username123

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so you think that people who have children, are no longer allowed to drink alcohol? and this "someone", happens to be the childs father.

I dunno about this. Most couples I know with kids have a kind of routine where is one is drinking the other isnt or is at least only having one. Both for the reason of having a sober driver available but also because no one wants to mind a child with a killer hangover.

Its different for single parents, who see the child by themselves - unless there is other back up such as grannies etc...

I dont see how the smell of booze would still be off someone after only 4 bottles of beer with food either, but I wouldnt like to leave a child with someone who is not only smelling of booze, but who cant even be bothered laying off it the night before the child comes over. Not only that but this pedantic sort of justification regarding how many units and calculations as to how long it takes for drink to leave the system, its all a bit childish when all the person has to do is - not drink the night before.

ash23

As someone whose ex tried a few control tactics, sometimes the fact is that there is no reason behind these things. I've probably been guilty of a few myself.

For example when trying to arrange access I suggested Fri night (no school in the morning so no early night needed = more time with the child) and was told that weekend nights were out because he was not babysitting my child so that I could go out and enjoy myself. This was coming from a man who had left me for another woman......

So it's quite possible that OPs ex is just being OTT about the whole thing. And I think it would be awful if he had to pander to her for the next god knows how long, just so he can see his child.

We have to take the OPs version as truth and if it is true, then he has no reason not to have a few bottles the night before he has his child. You say he's being pedantic but the fact is that the ex is, if his posts are being honest.

pwurple

ash23 wrote: »

So it's quite possible that OPs ex is just being OTT about the whole thing. And I think it would be awful if he had to pander to her for the next god knows how long, just so he can see his child.

We have to take the OPs version as truth and if it is true, then he has no reason not to have a few bottles the night before he has his child. You say he's being pedantic but the fact is that the ex is, if his posts are being honest.

Indeed she might be, but the stakes are very high for OP. You have to think about the consequences here..... skipping the couple of bottles of beer on a friday vs never seeing his daughter.

ash23

pwurple wrote: »

Indeed she might be, but the stakes are very high for OP. You have to think about the consequences here..... skipping the couple of bottles of beer on a friday vs never seeing his daughter.

Well, I'd be more of the opinion that him backing down all the time will lead to him leading a life of misery as every move he makes, his ex will threaten him with losing his child.
When he meets a new person, when he wants to do anything different.....he will spend the next few decades being told what to do. It's less about a few drinks and more about the control.
If it's not the drink it'll be something else. She was already over at his apartment making sure it was clean enough :eek:

I think he'd be way better off to formalise the access and get a large amount of distance from his ex. Her telling him what to do, him texting 4 times a day etc, none of that is really going to help them settle into a good co-parenting situation.

username123

ash23 wrote: »

I think he'd be way better off to formalise the access and get a large amount of distance from his ex. Her telling him what to do, him texting 4 times a day etc, none of that is really going to help them settle into a good co-parenting situation.

Well thats what he needs to do in the long term, but until such a time as he does, it would be more productive for him to play nice.

I totally agree going on the posts that the ex is unreasonable, however I do have to ask why someone would be so unreasonable? I think its quite telling that instead of just not drinking on those nights (which tbh, isnt a big deal unless the OP has a drink problem which he says he hasnt), he tries to justify the amount of alcohol, comes here to ask who is right, etc... Its like he has lost sight of the bigger issue - he needs to concern himself with maintaining access (until he gets it formalised legally).

Im actually looking at it from the "most productive outcome" side of things. And sure, it might not feel fair or it might feel he is being dictated to - but what of it, its about seeing his child - surely he can put aside the "she is not telling me how to act" in the interest of keeping that smooth. As time passes, things will settle, he will get things legally sorted out etc... For now - play nice. Sometimes in life we encounter difficult unreasonable people. Im not saying we should lie down for those people, but rather than bring about more unreasonable behaviour, play them nice and keep them quiet. If there were no bad consequence Id say "tell her to f**k herself" but unfortunately the stakes for the OP are too big.

ameee

I do think its not on to expect someone not to have a few drinks on a friday night that being said if someone arrived to pick up my children in the morning and they stank of alcohol I would not let my children go with them. if you are honestly only having a couple maybe drink something else if the beer smell stays on you because if I could smell beer on someone the next day after a shower and brushed teeth I would assume they were drinking mad amounts all night and I say that as someone who enjoys a couple of drinks at the weekend. Maybe your exes problem is she didnt believe you only had a few as most people would have to drink a lot more than that to smell the next day.

ash23

Well I disagree. I don't think any parent should have to just put up with being quizzed,nor do I agree with a child being used as a weapon.

If it carried on it will have serious effects on the child so it's not as simple as him doing as he is told for a quiet life.

The stakes for the child are higher than for the OP.

username123

ash23 wrote: »

Well I disagree. I don't think any parent should have to just put up with being quizzed,nor do I agree with a child being used as a weapon.

I have a divorced friend who has an alcoholic ex husband. Sometimes he is drunk when she shows up to drop the child off. She (obviously) wont drop the child in that situation.

He perceives it that she is using the child as a weapon and that she has no right to dictate to him how he lives.

What would you expect a mother to do if she didnt agree with the condition of the childs father at drop off time? If this guy just stayed sober - there would be no problem. Its incredibly difficult for the mother in this situation, she can never trust that drop off will be smooth. She worries about the effect on her son, but it would be worse to leave a child with a drunk.

Im not suggesting the OP is an alcoholic - but clearly the mother is uncomfortable dropping the child off in certain circumstances. Thats really his own fault for smelling of drink at drop off time.

ash23

You can't compare an alcoholic with a few beers on a Friday night. The guy is sober at the point of drop off.
The mother is checking his apartment and telling him he can't drink (responsibly) the night before a drop off. That's not fair.

If someone came knocking on your door and told you that you had to adhere to ridiculous conditions in order to see your child, you wouldn't take it lying down. Nobody would.

If the OP were an alcoholic my posts would be very different but why are people assuming he is telling lies? Some people are just unreasonable. I know a few and no matter what their exs do, they can do no right. And then I know exs who aren't worthy of having time with their child. But if we take the OP at face value, which we are meant to do, well, I wouldn't allow someone to tell me what I could do in my own time and if I don't do as I'm told I can't see my child. So I think the OP has a point.

When he is dropping the child back, does he have the right to refuse if he thinks her house isn't clean enough or she was out the night before?

username123

ash23 wrote: »

You can't compare an alcoholic with a few beers on a Friday night. The guy is sober at the point of drop off.
The mother is checking his apartment and telling him he can't drink (responsibly) the night before a drop off. That's not fair.

If his ex can smell the booze off him the next day then maybe he is not sober. He may think he is, but as examples have already been used - you wouldnt show up for work smelling of booze without expecting bad consequences of it. How is the ex to know if the smell is from booze consumed at 11pm the night before, 2am, 4am or 7am? All she knows is she can smell it.

The point of the alcoholic story is - it doesnt make any sense to say any parent shouldnt put up with being quizzed, if the parent is not behaving responsibly then the other parent is right to quiz them. Course they are!

I wouldnt adhere to ridiculous conditions either, but until he has his access legally formalised he has little choice. Expecting a parent who has access to show up without smelling of drink is not a ridiculous condition anyway, its normal enough.

I do agree with you, its possible she is just a holy terror of unreasonable mad behaviour - but there are red flags in the story so its best to take a balanced view imo.

Just on your last point - no he has no rights, he has no legal connection to his child under Irish law. This is why he absolutely needs to go to court and formalise things.

Floppybits

username123 wrote: »

Well thats what he needs to do in the long term, but until such a time as he does, it would be more productive for him to play nice.

I totally agree going on the posts that the ex is unreasonable, however I do have to ask why someone would be so unreasonable? I think its quite telling that instead of just not drinking on those nights (which tbh, isnt a big deal unless the OP has a drink problem which he says he hasnt), he tries to justify the amount of alcohol, comes here to ask who is right, etc... Its like he has lost sight of the bigger issue - he needs to concern himself with maintaining access (until he gets it formalised legally).

Im actually looking at it from the "most productive outcome" side of things. And sure, it might not feel fair or it might feel he is being dictated to - but what of it, its about seeing his child - surely he can put aside the "she is not telling me how to act" in the interest of keeping that smooth. As time passes, things will settle, he will get things legally sorted out etc... For now - play nice. Sometimes in life we encounter difficult unreasonable people. Im not saying we should lie down for those people, but rather than bring about more unreasonable behaviour, play them nice and keep them quiet. If there were no bad consequence Id say "tell her to f**k herself" but unfortunately the stakes for the OP are too big.

Well I have to ask here is the ex-girlfriend being unreasonable and using the child as weapon because she is still miffed at the break up? There are 2 sides to this. If I was OP I would be looking to get access through the courts that force the mother to behave in a reasonable manner. It seems from the OP posts that mother is able to go out when she wants because she leaves the child with her parents, why is she not leaving the child with the father?

lifeandtimes

hi everyone op here,

Thanks for your replyies and thoughts no this.

I have taken the jump and gone to have acccess and legal guardianship and have seen a mediator and will be again before the court date so hopefully an arangement can be met.

I was a bit p'd off that a responsible night in was used against me to see my daughter without evening getting the chance to leave my apartment to go pick her up.

I appreciate all your comments and a lot of you are right, it is easier to not have a couple the night before and my daughter is certainly more important to me than a couple of beers so for now i will play ball as i love my child to much to miss these chances and just a correction to make it is every wednesday evening and every second saturday.

I dont usually drink the night before seeing my daughter but however on these two instances i was and unfortuantely was in one way of putting it "penalised" for my actions, i am in no way an alcoholic and have not given any reason for my ex not to trust me with my daughter,in fact i was un thrustworthy why would u ahve her on these days in the first place?

There are underlining issues my ex has towards me which i will not get into but our relationship near the end was a not a very good one with a lot of aggression and such coming from her which resulted in me ending the relationship

I will make an agreement to see my daughter with the mediator stating my private time is just that,my private time, a point to make is my ex fiancee point on this issue that im letting my daughter down because i dont like being told what to do...i have pointed out that that is a major point in this problem as she has no right to tell me what to do, i am not her boyfriend anymore,her child and she doesnt really have a say in what i do in my private life.

I thank you all for your comments and will continue to moniter this thred and chime in if needed

Cheers

username123

Well done OP.

Just so you know, I never thought you were an alcoholic but I was using an extreme example to explain why someone might not just leave a child without question.

Much better to get everything on a legal footing. Plus it removes you one step emotionally, so you can just be civilised about getting things sorted to be benefit of your child.

Good luck going forward.

The_Conductor

As a parent to two young children- I 100% definitely wouldn't allow someone who had 5 or 6 beers the night before mind them. I'm not against alcohol- and I do have a drink, as in, a single drink. Its not hard to drink fruit juice, soda or mineral water.........

Czarcasm

lifeandtimes wrote: »

My ex is a very over protective parent I think and this is affecting her decision,no two sides to the story on this one,this id the full story and im an honest person who has no problem admitting when im wrong...that's why im asking for views on this...i was under the impression that a couple on a friday should ne no big deal,granted if I was drinking while minding my child or extremely hungover I would fully understand however I do not drink in excess amd have never given a reason to why I cannot be trusted with my daughter

OP with all due respect, we're talking about an eight month old baby here, your ex has just as much right to be over protective about that eight month old baby as you do to see her. Given the way this thread has gone, you constantly ramming home the point that you won't be "dictated to" as you see it, I'm left wondering are you more upset about not seeing your child, or are you more upset about your ex telling you that you couldn't see your child?

As for being trusted with your child, well, here's the thing- would you leave your eight month old child in the hands of a creche worker if you got the smell of drink off them? Even if the creche worker justified himself by saying "it hangs in my mouth, yknow yourself!". Be honest OP, you wouldn't let him within an asses roar of your child, and only rightly so, because he would be seen as irresponsible, by any reasonable minded individual.

lifeandtimes wrote: »

she is also very health conscious with our child food wise,will I not be allowed eat fast food around our daughter ?,whats to much,when would I say enough is enough?

OP are you actually seriously suggesting that your ex being health conscious with her child (it's as much her child as it is yours!) is actually a bad thing? Seriously?

I'll be honest OP I've had plenty of dealings with single and separated parents both male and female, and your ex giving your eight month old child a healthy diet and not handing the child off to a person who reeks of alcohol, she doesn't sound terribly unreasonable to me. She actually sounds like she has her head well screwed on, and I have to be honest OP, you come off as just a tad selfish, immature and unreasonable unfortunately if you can't accept that for the sake of spending time with your child, you think more about the fact that you won't have your ex "tell you what to do in your own time".

The fact is OP that your ex isn't telling you what to do with your own time, she's telling you that she won't be handing over an eight month old child to a somebody who reeks of drink and a person who in her opinion may not see that as being irresponsible. The fact is OP you might just be in the wrong here, but you actually DON'T seem willing to accept that.

If you take this to court however, I think you are more than familiar enough with the law regarding father's rights as they currently stand in this country. You may not like the outcome of a court decision if you try and tell the courts that your ex is a terrible mother because she feeds the child a healthy diet and doesn't let you see them after you've had a few drinks the night before.

Family courts too hate tit for tat stories btw, and if you think your ex has no right to tell you that your time with her child is not your own private time, I can't wait to hear what you'll make of social workers telling you what you can and cannot do in your own private time and pretty much stopping short of questioning you about the color of your underwear!

Hardly worth the couple of beers now OP just to two fingers your ex and show her she won't tell you what to do, is it? You really, and I mean REALLY OP want to go away and think long and hard about this one, not just for your sake, but for your child's sake aswel.

clairefontaine

I'm seeing both sides of this. No it is not ideal to be stinking of alcohol when you pick up your child. If you picked up your child from school or creche and you stank of it, you can be guaranteed the teacher or creche worker would inform the social workers, possibly even the guards if you were getting into a car. They do, for less.

On the other hand what people are objecting to is the idea that a visitation can be revoked from a parent for a few cans of beer, as in it should not be in the authority of the other parent to be able to do that. If your babysitter refused to hand over your child because you smelled of alcohol from the night before would you not be pretty pissed off?

With babies so young, you need your wits about you and a lot of stamina. So it might be better to just not risk stinking of booze when you pick up the baby.

lifeandtimes

Czarcasm wrote: »

OP are you actually seriously suggesting that your ex being health conscious with her child (it's as much her child as it is yours!) is actually a bad thing? Seriously?

Where did I say it was a bad thing? I was using this fact as a possible scenario in the future if I was to agree to her demands...im not an unfit or inconsiderate dad,im fully aware of the benefits of a healthy diet for a child and have not discouraged that

I'll be honest OP I've had plenty of dealings with single and separated parents both male and female, and your ex giving your eight month old child a healthy diet and not handing the child off to a person who reeks of alcohol, she doesn't sound terribly unreasonable to me. She actually sounds like she has her head well screwed on, and I have to be honest OP, you come off as just a tad selfish, immature and unreasonable unfortunately if you can't accept that for the sake of spending time with your child, you think more about the fact that you won't have your ex "tell you what to do in your own time".

These are two instances where this has happend,the second of which I was not even out of my house before I was denied access to my daughter based on on information I had given to her via text,as iv saif I have nothing to hide and dont lie,however thid is not a recurring trend im going to allow happen again for im bot going to drink previous nights as I do not want to miss amy chance I can have with my daughter

The fact is OP that your ex isn't telling you what to do with your own time, she's telling you that she won't be handing over an eight month old child to a somebody who reeks of drink and a person who in her opinion may not see that as being irresponsible. The fact is OP you might just be in the wrong here, but you actually DON'T seem willing to accept that.

If you take this to court however, I think you are more than familiar enough with the law regarding father's rights as they currently stand in this country. You may not like the outcome of a court decision if you try and tell the courts that your ex is a terrible mother because she feeds the child a healthy diet and doesn't let you see them after you've had a few drinks the night before.

Family courts too hate tit for tat stories btw, and if you think your ex has no right to tell you that your time with her child is not your own private time, I can't wait to hear what you'll make of social workers telling you what you can and cannot do in your own private time and pretty much stopping short of questioning you about the color of your underwear!

Hardly worth the couple of beers now OP just to two fingers your ex and show her she won't tell you what to do, is it? You really, and I mean REALLY OP want to go away and think long and hard about this one, not just for your sake, but for your child's sake aswel.

OP are you actually seriously suggesting that your ex being health conscious with her child (it's as much her child as it is yours!) is actually a bad thing? Seriously?

Where did I say it was a bad thing? I was using this fact as a possible scenario in the future if I was to agree to her demands...im not an unfit or inconsiderate dad,im fully aware of the benefits of a healthy diet for a child and have not discouraged that

I'll be honest OP I've had plenty of dealings with single and separated parents both male and female, and your ex giving your eight month old child a healthy diet and not handing the child off to a person who reeks of alcohol, she doesn't sound terribly unreasonable to me. She actually sounds like she has her head well screwed on, and I have to be honest OP, you come off as just a tad selfish, immature and unreasonable unfortunately if you can't accept that for the sake of spending time with your child, you think more about the fact that you won't have your ex "tell you what to do in your own time".

These are two instances where this has happend,the second of which I was not even out of my house before I was denied access to my daughter based on on information I had given to her via text,as iv saif I have nothing to hide and dont lie,however thid is not a recurring trend im going to allow happen again for im bot going to drink previous nights as I do not want to miss amy chance I can have with my daughter

Ill be honest out of all the people who where posting their views I found yours to be quite aggressive in tone in no way helpful,it was more of an condescending attack on my personal stance and capabilities as a father..

Overthrow

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'm left wondering are you more upset about not seeing your child, or are you more upset about your ex telling you that you couldn't see your child?

Well presumably he's quite upset about both. Why does it matter which is more upsetting? You're implying that feelings of upset/anger towards the person denying you access to your child are less valid which is typical of the 'get over it' attitude put towards many people who are facing the situation the OP is in.

As another poster said, if OP brought the baby to back to the mum's house and it was in a messy state and he decided based on that that she wasn't fit to take her, what would her reaction be? If she got angry towards the OP for denying her her child would people say "Jeez, you should be more upset about not seeing your child than getting angry at him."

Czarcasm

lifeandtimes wrote: »

These are two instances where this has happend,the second of which I was not even out of my house before I was denied access to my daughter based on on information I had given to her via text,as iv saif I have nothing to hide and dont lie,however thid is not a recurring trend im going to allow happen again for im bot going to drink previous nights as I do not want to miss amy chance I can have with my daughter

OP you keep saying that "I have nothing to hide and don't lie" as if it's supposed to make any difference. I didn't make up anything you hadn't already written in your previous posts. The fact is any of us here only have your word to go on, and that's all I was going on, and presenting you with the facts based upon what you'd written. Family court will see it the very same way- from the perspective of what's best for the child; not what's best for your ex, and certainly not what's best for you.

I would back you 110% if I saw you were committed to your child, but in my opinion, so far you've only trickled out negative stories about your ex, and tried to paint yourself as a devoted father who is denied his right to see his daughter because he has a couple of beers.

Ill be honest out of all the people who where posting their views I found yours to be quite aggressive in tone in no way helpful,it was more of an condescending attack on my personal stance and capabilities as a father..

I hadn't expected you to take it well OP, but what I offered you was advice and support and advised that you went away and had a long hard think about everything I'd advised.

You were back with a reply no less than fifteen minutes later that you took offence at what you saw as personally attacking you. What you failed to see however is that I was giving you advice on how things might not go as you'd think if you go through family court to get access to your child. Do you have any support structure in place? Your ex has her parents. These are things you need to think about OP rather than think anyone is personally attacking you. You need to think about your child, and working WITH your ex to put a support structure in place for your child. Healthcare workers will help you if necessary, that's what they're there for. They believe in a cohesive family unit as much as possible. Where that isn't possible, then they will work towards an alternative compromise that will best try and accommodate all involved, with the participation of all involved.

Honestly OP it's best for your own sake that you approach this in a logical manner and leave out all the "Oh yeah and she does this, this and this" tit for tat nonsense and concentrate on what YOU can OFFER the child. I find it's best if you keep in mind the old adage- "Any man can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad".

I hope you don't again take the above to be a personal sleight OP. Just consider it some constructive and impartial advice.

Czarcasm

Overthrow wrote: »

Well presumably he's quite upset about both. Why does it matter which is more upsetting? You're implying that feelings of upset/anger towards the person denying you access to your child are less valid which is typical of the 'get over it' attitude put towards many people who are facing the situation the OP is in.

I should've clarified that point. The OP's feelings towards his ex are completely invalid. The child is the priority, not how the OP feels about his ex. There's nothing to get over as his relationship with his ex isn't even up for discussion, and I certainly have no wish to drag it into the discussion, I don't think the OP has any wish to have it brought up either.

As another poster sad, if OP brought the baby to back to the mum's house and it was in a messy state and he decided based on that that she wasn't fit to take her, what would her reaction be? If she got angry towards the OP for denying her her child would people say "Jeez, you should be more upset about not seeing your child than getting angry at him."

I would anyway for one. I can't answer for other people, and as I've previously said, I would back the OP 110% if I saw they were committed to the child and not just saying the house was dirty for the sake of getting back at their ex. You do realise that social workers can be contacted and they can make house calls with the assistance of the Gardai if necessary if you have particular concerns about the safety of your child? Cry wolf however and, well, that will only look bad on the person making the report if they're seen to be acting unreasonably. Child safety is not something that's taken lightly, so if you felt a situation were unsuitable or an environment were unsuitable for a child- it's as easy as picking up the phone and making the call.

pwurple

OP, it may be worded harshly, but all that is being said is that it can be difficult to get legal guardianship and access through the courts if there is opposition. It is not as easy as applying and it happens. You need to be careful and consider your actions. For your own sake, do not have alcohol on your breath the next time she visits. Do your best to get your ex on your side.

LegacyUser

I'm amazed that its being completely ignored the fact the mother goes and gets blotto on a weekend night and then picks up the child the next day, and some even say she has her head "Well screwed on"??? I think her being peeved at the OP could be more to do with the fact of you were out? You were drinking? Having a good time? If she's still bitter about the relationship then it might be killing her to think he's not sitting at home heartbroken. As for the checking the apartment is tidy, well could be just an excuse to snoop to see what's going on in his life. People are forgetting the ex was engaged to the OP, she must know him well enough, so unless the OP was a messy slob who drank too much when they were together, there's no basis for her behaviour. Seen as people are so hellbent on waving the child welfare card, what about the aggression the OP describes from his ex, still think she has her head "well screwed on". Kids pick up on the these things from their parents, even babies and it creates stress for them.

Overthrow

Czarcasm wrote: »

I should've clarified that point. The OP's feelings towards his ex are completely invalid. The child is the priority, not how the OP feels about his ex. There's nothing to get over as his relationship with his ex isn't even up for discussion, and I certainly have no wish to drag it into the discussion, I don't think the OP has any wish to have it brought up either.

I would anyway for one. I can't answer for other people, and as I've previously said, I would back the OP 110% if I saw they were committed to the child and not just saying the house was dirty for the sake of getting back at their ex. You do realise that social workers can be contacted and they can make house calls with the assistance of the Gardai if necessary if you have particular concerns about the safety of your child? Cry wolf however and, well, that will only look bad on the person making the report if they're seen to be acting unreasonably. Child safety is not something that's taken lightly, so if you felt a situation were unsuitable or an environment were unsuitable for a child- it's as easy as picking up the phone and making the call.

1st priority: Access to his daughter
2nd priority: The nature of that access, and the conditions/environment under which he's able to grow his relationship with his daughter.

The latter is massively influenced by his coparenting relationship with his ex. It's not all about legal properness and pleasing the courts. That's just the first battle. In the long term his relationship with his child will be defined by a number of factors, not just access, and his relationship with his coparent is one of the biggest contributing factors thereof.

A coparent denying access is a problem within itself - the problem isn't only the lack of access, the problem is also the fact that someone is choosing to deny you that access. Regardless of the details of who is right and wrong.

You're trying to be too pragmatic here and are actively disregarding the emotional side, which is always going to be a factor, and especially now at this quite traumatic period of OP's life.

My example of OP denying the mother access because her house is dirty was to highlight that yes, access is always the priority (because nothing can happen without access), but if someone is actively denying you that access then your feelings towards that person are certainly valid since they're the ones who are blocking that access.

The ideal situation is for OP to have a healthy relationship with his coparent. As I said before, the courts should be a last resort, and going down that route means failure - failure in the ability for the parents to cohesively agree and act upon what is best for their child.

So right now OP should be figuring out how to maximise access, but he should also be figuring out how to improve things with his coparent because she's going to have a massive impact for better or worse on his relationship with his daughter here on in.

CarMe

I really empathise OP it can't be easy, but I wouldn't let anyone that smelled of drink take my nearly two year old-let alone an 8 month old baby!

I definitely think you should leave out the alcohol the nights before you have your child, after all It's only two nights.