Can anyone give me advice?

Sundancer

Can anyone give me advice?

My landlord served me with a Notice of Termination that appears to be valid, with a date on it to vacate the property in four months. Six weeks later, he served me with another Notice of Termination with a new date to vacate the property, six weeks after the date in the first notice. However, this second Notice is plainly invalid. Can the landlord rely on the first Notice or does this second Notice supersede the first one???

Cheers

belcampprisoner

http://www.let.ie/articles/if-your-landlord-wants-you-to-leave




http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?t=923

the_syco

TBH, sounds like the house sale has hit a hitch (although sold, the buyer is having a hard time off-loading their own house), and the landlord is hoping to get some more cash out of you before the sale is finalised.

Sundancer

Just need to know if the 2nd Notice of Termination supercedes the first one otherwise they could issue one every day. Surely the latest notice is the definitive one? Any ideas where to check this? Cheers.

ABajaninCork

Talk to Threshold.

djimi

Does the second notice of termination make reference to the first one? If not, and its not deemed to be valid, then Im not sure that it would supercede the first one, as technically it does not exist. I agree though, Threshold may be able to assist you with this.

If the landlord is just looking to buy themselves more time then it seems they are (intentionally or otherwise) messing you around. You could always just hand in your own notice and find somewhere else sooner than the termination date that they have given you?

Brownhead

Sundancer wrote: »

Can anyone give me advice?

My landlord served me with a Notice of Termination that appears to be valid, with a date on it to vacate the property in four months. Six weeks later, he served me with another Notice of Termination with a new date to vacate the property, six weeks after the date in the first notice. However, this second Notice is plainly invalid. Can the landlord rely on the first Notice or does this second Notice supersede the first one???

Cheers

If you didn't object to the first notice within 28 days it is valid.
There is a case called Canty v Residential Tenancies Board on www.courts.ie. Judge Laffoy said a landlord can serve as many notices of termination as he likes. it is unlikely that the landlord would pursue for overholding until the extra six weeks have passed.

Sundancer

I did open a dispute with the PRTB as to the validity of the first Notice of Termination and I am waiting for a hearing date. However, I am of a mind to withdraw that dispute on the grounds that the issuance of a new Notice of Termination with a new date to vacate the property, supercedes the first notice and renders it irrelevant. I have 28 days to dispute the most recent N.O.T.

djimi

If you feel that the first notice is valid then why are you disputing it?

What is it about either notice that you feel is invalid?

Sundancer

When I say that the first Notice is valid, I mean that on the face of it, all the relevant inclusions are correct. I am disputing the landlord's right to serve it because I am not yet at the end of a Part 4 Tenancy.

The second Notice is plainly invalid because it contains no "reason" for termination, which is a basic requirement of a N.O.T.

Do I withdraw my case to the PRTB regarding the first notice (which I could possibly lose) on the basis that the 2nd N.O.T has superceded it and dispute the 2nd N.O.T, which case I cannot lose?

odds_on

Sundancer wrote: »

When I say that the first Notice is valid, I mean that on the face of it, all the relevant inclusions are correct. I am disputing the landlord's right to serve it because I am not yet at the end of a Part 4 Tenancy.

The second Notice is plainly invalid because it contains no "reason" for termination, which is a basic requirement of a N.O.T.

Do I withdraw my case to the PRTB regarding the first notice (which I could possibly lose) on the basis that the 2nd N.O.T has superceded it and dispute the 2nd N.O.T, which case I cannot lose?

If you have a Part 4 tenancy, provided the grounds on which the Notice of termination are correct and valid, there is no need to wait until the end of a Part 4 tenancy.

When does a Part 4 tenancy actually end? After 4 years, it would become a Further Part 4 tenancy. The disadvantage of a Part 4 tenancy is that a landlord may serve a Notice of Termination at any time provided he uses one of the grounds available to him and has complied with any regulation relating to that specific ground.

With a Fixed Term agreement, the landlord may only serve a Notice of Termination if the tenant is in breach of his obligations (excepting a break clause).

PhilMcGee

Is it that you want to stay or that you just dont know when the landlord wants you to leave?

Sundancer

I would like to stay. I believe that the first Notice of Termination does not comply with the time periods allowed under the 2004 Act regarding security of tenure and have raised a dispute with the PRTB. I am waiting for a hearing date. However, if I can rely on the 2nd Notice of Termination as superseding the first, I can drop that dispute and raise a dispute regarding the 2nd notice, which is plainly invalid as there is no reason stated for termination. I am worried that if I do drop the dispute regarding the first notice, then it will be held as valid, even though I feel it has been replaced by the new notice. The new notice was served 6 weeks after the first one with a date to vacate, also 6 weeks after the date on the 1st notice.

djimi

How long are you actually in the property? The longest notice period that you are entitled to is 112 days, and that applies only if you are in the property for more than 4 years. Notice periods are as follows:

Length of tenancy....Notice by landlord
Less than 6 months......4 weeks (28 days)
6 months to 1 year......5 weeks (35 days)
1 – 2 years.................6 weeks (42 days)
2 – 3 years.................8 weeks (56 days)
3 – 4 years.................12 weeks (84 days)
4 years or more...........16 weeks (112 days)

If you are on a part 4 tenancy (ie you dont have a fixed term lease) then it sounds very much like the initial notice of termination is valid and you are wasting your time disputing it. Obviously though without seeing it I cant say that there isnt something in there that might be invalid.

To be honest, your best bet is to get in contact with Threshold who will assist you with your case. They will look at the first NoT and tell you whether or not it is valid, and they will give you guidance regading the second NoT.

The bottom line is your landlord wants you out, so the only question is when it will happen. If it were me Id be putting my effort into finding a new property. Thats just my opinion.

PhilMcGee

Does the landlord meet any of the conditions for terminating early?
But its not hard to engineer one for him at all if he wants to.

Sundancer

No conditions for terminating early. No rent issues, none of the other issues. As I said, my main question is does the 2nd Notice of Termination which has a different date of service (6 weeks after the 1st N.O.T) and a different date to vacate (also six weeks after the 1st N.O.T), supersede the 1st Notice of Termination????

odds_on

Sundancer wrote: »

No conditions for terminating early. No rent issues, none of the other issues. As I said, my main question is does the 2nd Notice of Termination which has a different date of service (6 weeks after the 1st N.O.T) and a different date to vacate (also six weeks after the 1st N.O.T), supersede the 1st Notice of Termination????

If it is invalid therefore it has no validity and cannot supersede a legally valid notice.