E38 7 series vs Opel Corsa crash

BrianD3

Crashes/crash tests where smaller newer cars fare better than bigger older ones are old news at this stage. However, often the "big" car isn't actually that heavy or is a very old design (eg the Volvo 940 or Ford Sierra)

I've been curious as to how 1990s "luxobarges" like W140s and E38s fare in real life crashes, they are not that old and are heavy even by modern standards.

This is from a Dutch news website, an E38 hits a Corsa C in a small overlap type crash. The E38 is then hit by a Peugeot 307 side on on the other side. Based on the condition of the passenger compartments the E38 looks to have fared worse than the Corsa here and there was a fair amount of intrusion from the secondary impact too. Nobody was killed in this crash but several were injured

ba_barabus

In the US crash test now involve a severe offset crash such as the above. It's thrown up some very interesting crash test results on current cars

Voodoomelon

That's a serious impact on both counts, opened up the E38s left fender like a can of sardines.

Still not as bad as this though, the E38 was cut in half lengthways:
http://rusdtp.ru/13351-bmw-porvalo-na-kuski.html

Damien360

Voodoomelon wrote: »

That's a serious impact on both counts, opened up the E38s left fender like a can of sardines.

Still not as bad as this though, the E38 was cut in half lengthways:
http://rusdtp.ru/13351-bmw-porvalo-na-kuski.html

Did'nt even dent the pole it hit .on mobile so cannot do translate easily but they must have been really flying .

JerCotter7

I would expect the bigger car to crumple more. It would absorb more of the impact and since it has all the extra room in front to crumple why not use it. If the Corsa crumpled that much the driver would be squashed.

CiniO

Pictures might be deceiving.
F.e. driver of this Fiat Panda came out of the car with only few scratches.

mickdw

The anount of deformation around the front piller / roof is poor on the bmw. I would be very interested to know the movements of the cars after impact though. Assuming similar speeds, the heavier bmw would suffer lesser deceleration forces that the corsa and this could be crutical to it being survivable or not.

Popoutman

Photos in the original post include the the body still at the scene.

Grim.

Reminds me of that A3 crash in Portugal, and it's almost the exact same as this rs6 cut in half - except the RS6 driver walked away..

BrianD3

Re: a dead body, there is no mention of anyone being killed in the crash that I posted. There was a 24 year old man driving the BMW, a 68 year old man driving the Corsa and a woman and child in the Peugeot. 4 people were injured and taken away in ambulances.

I would expect the bigger car to crumple more. It would absorb more of the impact and since it has all the extra room in front to crumple why not use it. If the Corsa crumpled that much the driver would be squashed.

The integrity/stability of the passenger compartment of the BMW rather than the crumpling of the front end is the issue here. Roof, sill, A pillar buckled and judging by where the wheel ended up I'd say the footwell is mangled and pedals driven back too. OK, the driver survived but had the crash been a few mph faster it could have been a lot worse for the BMW driver with the relatively solid Corsa intruding further into the survival space.

As mickdw says, the much heavier BMW should still have an advantage when it comes to the forces experienced by the occupants. But if the passenger compartment doesn't hold up then that is a major cause of death and injury.

This Corsa/E38 impact looks similar to the new IIHS small overlap test that ba_barabus mentioned. Several current cars have done badly in that including the Merc C class, Audi A4, and Lexus IS with the F30 3 series not doing very well either. All the above cars have longitudinal mounted engines like the E38. It's been a while since I checked the results but IIRC cars with transverse engines tend to do better in the IIHS test. the Volvo S60 and Suzuki Kizashi did well as did a few Hondas.

Obviously the E38 is now a fairly old design as well - but still a heavy car by modern standards and probably still regarded as a "tank" by many.

listermint

From the images in the original OP i have to entirely disagree.

The E38 appears to have the same / similar levels of damage to the corsa in terms of the passenger side and wheel displacement.

The Corsa was no side impacted by any other vehicle so to compare the two just doesnt stack up.

I see what you are trying to achieve but this case is a poor example. The E38 took a battering front and side on here and driver survived. If the corsa took the same impact front and side id be interested to see the outcome. Id imagine it would have looked alot different than its current state.

knucklehead6

BrianD3 wrote: »

Re: a dead body, there is no mention of anyone being killed in the crash that I posted. There was a 24 year old man driving the BMW, a 68 year old man driving the Corsa and a woman and child in the Peugeot. 4 people were injured and taken away in ambulances. .

There looks to be a body in the original photos on the link regarding the BMW that sliced itself in half lengthways. Not your opening post.

ba_barabus

knucklehead6 wrote: »

There looks to be a body in the original photos on the link regarding the BMW that sliced itself in half lengthways. Not your opening post.

Sure is just spotted it when I opened it

kirving

listermint wrote: »

From the images in the original OP i have to entirely disagree.

The E38 appears to have the same / similar levels of damage to the corsa in terms of the passenger side and wheel displacement.

The Corsa was no side impacted by any other vehicle so to compare the two just doesnt stack up.

I see what you are trying to achieve but this case is a poor example. The E38 took a battering front and side on here and driver survived. If the corsa took the same impact front and side id be interested to see the outcome. Id imagine it would have looked alot different than its current state.

The main issue is not how the front end looks, but the damae to the passenger compartment. What's happenned here between the BMW and Corsa is basically a small overlap crash test, and the Corsa appears to have come out on top. I think what has happenned to the BMW is that it's wheel has stayed in line and been forced towards the A pillar, while the Corsa's left wheel has stayed where is should.

I would not like to be in the passenger seat of the BMW that's for sure.

In terms of the side impact to the BMW, its hasn't fared particularly well either, although we don't know the speed of the impact. The goal here is to make the passenger compartment as stiff as possible, and deal with the higher acceleration forces experienced by the occupants with airbags and a well designed seat. A smaller car is less likely to buckle in the centre, and more likely to bounce out of the way.

Minimising ntrusion into the passenger compartment is the main goal, since this is what causes the worse injuries. For that, I'd rather be in a new small car, than a big old car. Secondary to that, managing the acceleration forces experienced by the occupants is where well designed crumple zones, a large cockpit, active safety features come into play. For this, a new big car would probably be better than a new small car.

(If you click the link in my sig, and scroll down a little to the 4th of March, you can see a carbon fibre composite impact attenuator designed by a member of my Formula Student team, passing it's crash test. It looks destroyed, but did actually absorb much of the impact)

Voodoomelon

One thing to bear in mind is that the E38 is a prefacelift so it's at least 15 years old. Who knows what original suspension parts were still in there, they could have snapped like twigs.

BrianD3

Voodoomelon wrote: »

One thing to bear in mind is that the E38 is a prefacelift so it's at least 15 years old. Who knows what original suspension parts were still in there, they could have snapped like twigs.

Had the suspension parts snapped like twigs that might have helped the situation - in the IIHS crash test cars that shear off the front wheel, hub etc. tend to do better than cars which trap the front wheel up against the pillar or footwell.

Point take about it being a 15+ year old car but remember that the Corsa is not that new a design either - introduced in 2000.

ottostreet

I'd rather die in a 7 series than a Corsa, if it came down to the choice.

I actually didn't enjoy typing that at all, and I'm not the superstitious type.