6 Penalty Points

Nobler32

Hi,

Not sure if I am posting in the right section, but was hoping somebody on here could give me advice.

2 hours after buying a new car recently I was pulled over and asked to get out of the car
My version of the events that had happened is:
I overtook a car, on a section of the road with broken white lines (although the majority of the road has a continuous white line), other than that car the road was empty..and is a very long stretch of road. So in my opinion there was no danger in doing so, not to mention the car in front was doing about 40km/h in a 50km/h zone.
While doing so, I apparently reached 110km/h, although I would say it was more like 80km/h before immediately braking back down to 50-60km/h.
At the end of the road I went through a red light, it had just gone red but to be fair I could have stopped for it.

Traffic corp appeared and pulled me over just after I broke the light and claimed I overtook on a continuous white line, and did 110km/h..although I was never shown any reading etc (I've heard they don't actually need to though).

I received 3 individual notices today with 2 points for each and an €80 fine for each, I would like to appeal it but I'm curious to know what way that will go?
I don't have any proof that I didn't do what they claim, nor do they have any proof that I did. Will the fines double if found guilty upon appealing?

Im 23 with 4 years NCB, and I've never had any convictions or driving offences, don't think I could afford the insurance on this particular car if there is 6 points on my license!

Any advice is appreciated!
Thanks

jasonmadigan

Assuming you go to court, you may end up with 12 points instead, disqualifying you from driving. If it were me, I'd take it on the chin and learn from it.

Penfailed

Nobler32 wrote: »

don't think I could afford the insurance on this particular car if there is 6 points on my license!

Does this mean you were driving without insurance?

dj1980

Do you have a google map view of the stretch of road in question in order to see where the broken line is.

corktina

you admit to two of the offences,I doubt a Court would see any reason to doubt the Gard's word over the third offence. Suck it up...

I'm not sure about this but I have an inkling that you only get one set of points when committing multiple offences, so you might actually only get two points.

ResearchWill

Nobler32 wrote: »

Hi,

Not sure if I am posting in the right section, but was hoping somebody on here could give me advice.

2 hours after buying a new car recently I was pulled over and asked to get out of the car
My version of the events that had happened is:
I overtook a car, on a section of the road with broken white lines (although the majority of the road has a continuous white line), other than that car the road was empty..and is a very long stretch of road. So in my opinion there was no danger in doing so, not to mention the car in front was doing about 40km/h in a 50km/h zone.
While doing so, I apparently reached 110km/h, although I would say it was more like 80km/h before immediately braking back down to 50-60km/h.
At the end of the road I went through a red light, it had just gone red but to be fair I could have stopped for it.

Traffic corp appeared and pulled me over just after I broke the light and claimed I overtook on a continuous white line, and did 110km/h..although I was never shown any reading etc (I've heard they don't actually need to though).

I received 3 individual notices today with 2 points for each and an €80 fine for each, I would like to appeal it but I'm curious to know what way that will go?
I don't have any proof that I didn't do what they claim, nor do they have any proof that I did. Will the fines double if found guilty upon appealing?

Im 23 with 4 years NCB, and I've never had any convictions or driving offences, don't think I could afford the insurance on this particular car if there is 6 points on my license!

Any advice is appreciated!
Thanks

You admit breaking red light so it seems you have no defence there, you admit it was a 50k zone and you did 80k according to you so no defence there. The only issue is the overtaking on a solid white line.

I assume you can accept the first two pay €160 and get 4 points, and let the other go to court risk a larger fine, time to go to DC and possibly the Circuit Court on appeal if necessary and if found guilty double points bringing total to 8. So it seems you have defo 4 plus €160 or possible 8 with fine and expences going over €500.

frash

Nobler32 wrote: »

Hi,

Not sure if I am posting in the right section, but was hoping somebody on here could give me advice.

2 hours after buying a new car recently I was pulled over and asked to get out of the car
My version of the events that had happened is:
I overtook a car, on a section of the road with broken white lines (although the majority of the road has a continuous white line), other than that car the road was empty..and is a very long stretch of road. So in my opinion there was no danger in doing so, not to mention the car in front was doing about 40km/h in a 50km/h zone.
While doing so, I apparently reached 110km/h, although I would say it was more like 80km/h before immediately braking back down to 50-60km/h.
At the end of the road I went through a red light, it had just gone red but to be fair I could have stopped for it.

Traffic corp appeared and pulled me over just after I broke the light and claimed I overtook on a continuous white line, and did 110km/h..although I was never shown any reading etc (I've heard they don't actually need to though).

I received 3 individual notices today with 2 points for each and an €80 fine for each, I would like to appeal it but I'm curious to know what way that will go?
I don't have any proof that I didn't do what they claim, nor do they have any proof that I did. Will the fines double if found guilty upon appealing?

Im 23 with 4 years NCB, and I've never had any convictions or driving offences, don't think I could afford the insurance on this particular car if there is 6 points on my license!

Any advice is appreciated!
Thanks

You sound like a dangerous driver.
Take the points, learn from it & be glad nobody is dead.

Nobler32

Penfailed wrote: »

Does this mean you were driving without insurance?

No not at all, I'm saying that when I go to renew my insurance policy in a year's time the premium will be sky high!
Well that is providing your premium is only affected once you go to renew your policy..as I've heard you don't need to inform your insurance provider until renewal time, is this correct?

corktina

OSI wrote: »

Technically, if you're done for multiple offences in the one go, you're supposed to pay for the fine for all 3, but only get the points of the highest point carrying offence. So you shouldn't end up with 6 points. However, it's odd that you received 3 different notices, so I don't know what you'll end up with.

For what it's worth, there's no point appealing, you were speeding, and you broke a red light, arguing that you did or didn't overtake on a solid line is just going to piss off a judge.

see a solicitor methinks....

dj1980

OSI wrote: »

Technically, if you're done for multiple offences in the one go, you're supposed to pay for the fine for all 3, but only get the points of the highest point carrying offence. So you shouldn't end up with 6 points. However, it's odd that you received 3 different notices, so I don't know what you'll end up with.

For what it's worth, there's no point appealing, you were speeding, and you broke a red light, arguing that you did or didn't overtake on a solid line is just going to piss off a judge.

I thought this was the case also. Best to get legal representation, might cost a bit but may be worth it to avoid potentially getting 4 additional points

ibebanging

You drive in a dangerous and unsafe manner. Luckily you were caught, hopefully you will cop yourself on.

Nobler32

dj1980 wrote: »

Do you have a google map view of the stretch of road in question in order to see where the broken line is.

Here it is

ResearchWill

OSI wrote: »

Technically, if you're done for multiple offences in the one go, you're supposed to pay for the fine for all 3, but only get the points of the highest point carrying offence. So you shouldn't end up with 6 points. However, it's odd that you received 3 different notices, so I don't know what you'll end up with.

For what it's worth, there's no point appealing, you were speeding, and you broke a red light, arguing that you did or didn't overtake on a solid line is just going to piss off a judge.

I doubled checked and indeed it seems correct,


Penalty Points

The Road Safety Authority (RSA) is responsible for the allocation of Penalty Points. After payment of a Penalty Point offence, a letter of Notification of the Allocation of Penalty Points will then be issued by post from the RSA confirming the allocation of Penalty Points on your driving licence record, and the date your points start. Each set of Penalty Points accrued lasts for 3 years beginning 28 days from the date of the notification from the RSA, not the offence date. If, within a 3 year period, you receive 12 Penalty Points, you will incur a disqualification from driving for 6 months. Any queries on Penalty Points should be made to the RSA at 1890 20 20 21.

If it has been alleged that you have committed multiple Penalty Point offences in the same incident, only the highest value Penalty Points will be recorded on your driving licence record, e.g. if you pay two Fixed Charge Notices for having Crossed a Continuous White Line, which carries 1 Penalty Point on payment, and Failure to Wear a Safety-Belt, which carries 2 Penalty Points on payment, in the same incident, you will receive 2 Penalty Points for that incident.

http://www.garda.ie/controller.aspx?page=1654

The white line and speeding are defo same offence, they may argue red light different offence.

Nobler32

ibebanging wrote: »

You drive in a dangerous and unsafe manner. Luckily you were caught, hopefully you will cop yourself on.

"drive" or drove? It's not something that has occurred before, hence why I have no driving offences previous to this. Have you never been tempted to overtake somebody who is well under the limit on a long empty stretch of road late at night?!
I am aware of my actions and the possible consequences..saying I'm lucky I was caught is a bit inappropriate IMO. Thanks for your valuable input though..

sdanseo

You got nabbed, as I and many others have done. Law is in writing, you contravened it, just a matter of sucking it up I'm afraid.

I'm no angel behind the wheel but I drive responsibly to suit conditions and know the camera zones - hence 2 points in seven years. What you did just sounds like you threw caution to the wind a little bit. I will grant you that doing you for all three offences is a bit of a scumbag move - he could have given you one or two tickets with the same "scare tactic" effect than piling on all three.

You are entitled to ask to see the speed reading, by the way.

dj1980

Off topic, but what was the new car you got?

Nobler32

dj1980 wrote: »

Off topic, but what was the new car you got?

Not a boy racer car if that's what you have an image of! Golf GTI..

corktina

Nobler32 wrote: »

"drive" or drove? It's not something that has occurred before, hence why I have no driving offences previous to this. Have you never been tempted to overtake somebody who is well under the limit on a long empty stretch of road late at night?!
I am aware of my actions and the possible consequences..saying I'm lucky I was caught is a bit inappropriate IMO. Thanks for your valuable input though..

I'd ignore the usual nonsense OP, stick to the main thrust of your query...the only difference between me (and most of us) and you is that you got caught and I didn't. I'd check it out with a solicitor. It looks pretty clear you should only be getting 2 points.

Nobler32

corktina wrote: »

I'd ignore the usual nonsense OP, stick to the main thrust of your query...the only difference between me (and most of us) and you is that you got caught and I didn't. I'd check it out with a solicitor. It looks pretty clear you should only be getting 2 points.

6 years driving previous to this and not a single point! It's unfortunate alright that it happened 2 hours after picking up a car I had wanted for years!
Thanks for your advice, think I will seek a solicitor, even if it means I still have to take 4. I have heard of insurance companies not loading on too much with 4, but after 4 it can become exorbitant.

corktina

it's going to cost you a lot more than solicitors bill if you can't sort it. Best of luck

sdanseo

Nobler32 wrote: »

6 years driving previous to this and not a single point! It's unfortunate alright that it happened 2 hours after picking up a car I had wanted for years!
Thanks for your advice, think I will seek a solicitor, even if it means I still have to take 4. I have heard of insurance companies not loading on too much with 4, but after 4 it can become exorbitant.

Why not ring your insurance company and ask how much it adds? You haven't had the points endorsed against you yet, and may never do, so they can't actually charge you the extra yet. And if they do get added, you are obliged to inform them, so asking in advance makes zero difference.

What they may be able to do though is tell you it'll be €100 extra - a solicitor will cost you that and more just to look at your letters, let alone stand up in court defending you.

Nobler32

Nobler32 wrote: »

I overtook a car, on a section of the road with broken white lines (although the majority of the road has a continuous white line), other than that car the road was empty..and is a very long stretch of road. So in my opinion there was no danger in doing so, not to mention the car in front was doing about 40km/h in a 50km/h zone.
While doing so, I apparently reached 110km/h, although I would say it was more like 80km/h before immediately braking back down to 50-60km/h.
At the end of the road I went through a red light, it had just gone red but to be fair I could have stopped for it.

Sounds to me like you wanted to test out the new GTI a bit ?

were you heading for the bend or coming from it ?




Either way overtaking, even if the car was going as slow as you say which I highly doubt, overtaking here and doing 80 kph as you say is downright dangerous.

What if a child ran out in front of you ?

You got to understand the rules are there to protect pedestrians and other road users from the likes of you, you are the reason rules are made.

Even if you say the road was empty, which it wasn't if you were overtaking, what gives you the right ?

Just imagine you hit someone ? at 50 kph, now imaging 80 kph ! Then doing 110 kph on that road ? you deserve to be put off it and IMO you shouldn't be driving a GTI, I wouldn't give you a licence for a bicycle !!!

Yes I'm ranting a bit because I'm sick of the likes of you on the road every single day.

In your opinion there was no danger :eek: , that's the problem, you have to think of what may happen at speed in a 50 kph zone, it's 50 for a reason and that is to make people slow down !!!

Give up the GTI man or you won't have a licence for long !

paddydriver

OP you got done fair and square. If you only get 2 points then you are lucky! I drive that road regularly, in a Golf GTI too, and often come across people driving below the limit.. and don't feel need to blast past them. Playing fields and lots of kids both sides of the road. Wasn't going to get you anywhere faster and now your €240 lighter:eek:

The breaking the red light one is a dead giveaway... didn't want suffering the indignation of having to stop and let the slow driver catch back up with you:p

Enjoy the GTI.. great car.

John_Rambo

I'd say some people here have vertigo their horses are that high.

paddydriver

paddydriver wrote: »

Playing fields and lots of kids both sides of the road.

Why do people not see the danger ? a child running after a ball etc.

The driver doing 40 kph probably not even going that slow, but even if he was he's well within his right, the speed limit is a limit not a target.

paddydriver wrote: »

The breaking the red light one is a dead giveaway

I forgot about the red light in my rant, dear oh dear ! :eek:

Yawns

OP get yourself down to a solicitor. You should only receive one set of penalty points in this case. Usually the offence that warrants the highest amount. You will have to pay the total amount of fines. You could prob try sort it yourself by going to the garda station. If no joy defo get onto a solicitor and explain.

Yakuza

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'd say some people here have vertigo their horses are that high.

What could the OP have possibly expected in this forum having described those antics? A pat on the back?

OP, consider this a lucky lesson that no one was hurt and use it to modify your driving habits (in built up zones at least!). I know what it's like to move up to a powerful car (having owned a Celica ST182 and a 320i in the past), and the urge to put the welly down can be irresistable (or you're just not used to the response of the new car) but don't let it go to your head. Slow down a bit and enjoy your new motor.

Seve OB

Nobler32 wrote: »

"drive" or drove? It's not something that has occurred I have been caught doing before, hence why I have no driving offences previous to this. Have you never been tempted to overtake somebody who is well under the limit on a long empty stretch of road late at night?!
I am aware of my actions and the possible consequences..saying I'm lucky I was caught is a bit inappropriate IMO. Thanks for your valuable input though..

FYP.

I don't believe for a minute that this was the first time you drove in a dangerous and illegal mannor. Judging by your own admissions, you deserve to have the book thrown at you.

However, I do believe you could get away with the white line thing as there is clearly a broken white line there (providing that is actually where you overtook) and also the speeding, as it appears you were not actually cought by a speed gun, but rather by observation with no back-up proof (or was there). A good lawyer should help you get off, but as I say, you don't deserve to.

Nobler32

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds to me like you wanted to test out the new GTI a bit ?

were you heading for the bend or coming from it ?




Either way overtaking, even if the car was going as slow as you say which I highly doubt, overtaking here and doing 80 kph as you say is downright dangerous.

What if a child ran out in front of you ?

You got to understand the rules are there to protect pedestrians and other road users from the likes of you, you are the reason rules are made.

Even if you say the road was empty, which it wasn't if you were overtaking, what gives you the right ?

Just imagine you hit someone ? at 50 kph, now imaging 80 kph ! Then doing 110 kph on that road ? you deserve to be put off it and IMO you shouldn't be driving a GTI, I wouldn't give you a licence for a bicycle !!!

Yes I'm ranting a bit because I'm sick of the likes of you on the road every single day.

In your opinion there was no danger :eek: , that's the problem, you have to think of what may happen at speed in a 50 kph zone, it's 50 for a reason and that is to make people slow down !!!

Give up the GTI man or you won't have a licence for long !

I was heading towards the bend you can see in that photo, bearing in mind that bend is a fair distance away!
Obviously I understand all of the ifs but this was late at night, at about 11pm! I would never have made such a move if I had thought children might be out, it is a major road so children aren't likely to be hanging around the roadside.
If you are in the middle lane of the M50 behind somebody who is doing 90km/h, and you would rather get to somewhere on time, would you not go into the overtaking lane and do 100-120km/h depending on which part of the motorway it is?!

Hoop66

Nobler32 wrote: »

Here it is

You should never be overtaking on a road like that. If the driver in front of you is "too slow", then tough luck.

You're lucky that all you're looking at is a few points and not something much more serious.

Nobler32

Nobler32 wrote: »

I am aware of my actions and the possible consequences..saying I'm lucky I was caught is a bit inappropriate IMO.

Maybe it is lucky, will this not make you think twice in future ?

See on the open road is dangerous enough, but in an area like that, anything can happen, this is what you got to understand.

Imagine if next time you try a stunt like that and the red light is a pedestrian light and you'll say, ah sure I'll make it, what if that pedestrian runs out as soon as the light turns Green ?

It's all about thinking ahead and not just about what's in front of you at the time.

I'm not saying I'm a perfect driver, nobody is but the 50 kph zone I don't take chances.

Where is that road?

Seve OB

Nobler32 wrote: »

If you are in the middle lane of the M50 behind somebody who is doing 90km/h, and you would rather get to somewhere on time, would you not go into the overtaking lane and do 100-120km/h depending on which part of the motorway it is?!

What a ridiculously stupid statement.

Firstly overtaking on a motorway is hardly anywhere near a comparison of the road you overtook on. Hell you even point out there is an overtaking lane specifically for overtaking..... what the hell is your reasoning here?


Secondly, why would anybody be cruising along at 90 in the middle lane? the only place you should be cruising on the M50 is the left lane. The middle lane is not for cruising in. It is actually an overtaking lane. In higher volumes of traffic it is a lane for faster moving traffic.

I really hate people who think it is safe to drive in the middle lane when there is no traffic in the left lane, it's bloody dangerous. (IMO, anyone caught doing this should get penalty points, and traffic cameras should be used to catch them)

RoryMac

R112 Bushy Park Rathfarnham

Nobler32

Nobler32 wrote: »

I was heading towards the bend you can see in that photo,

:eek:

Nobler32 wrote: »

bearing in mind that bend is a fair distance away!

Funny that, bends have a habit of coming up rather fast at 110 kph from that distance!

Nobler32 wrote: »

Obviously I understand all of the ifs

But you didn't at the time, obviously ? and what about the next time ?

Nobler32 wrote: »

but this was late at night, at about 11pm! I would never have made such a move if I had thought children might be out, it is a major road so children aren't likely to be hanging around the roadside.

The time of night is no excuse what so ever and no justification for it.

Teenagers can be out at night up to all sorts, that's what they do. Drunks, whatever, it's not something I'd want on my concious.

Nobler32 wrote: »

If you are in the middle lane of the M50 behind somebody who is doing 90km/h, and you would rather get to somewhere on time, would you not go into the overtaking lane and do 100-120km/h depending on which part of the motorway it is?!

We're not talking about the M50 though are we ?

And I always leave early even travelling to work to make sure I don't be in a hurry, that's no excuse either.

RoryMac

RoryMac wrote: »

R112 Bushy Park Rathfarnham

Ahhhh... thought it looked familiar

stevieob

stevieob wrote: »

What a ridiculously stupid statement.

Firstly overtaking on a motorway is hardly anywhere near a comparison of the road you overtook on.

And if he were to make a comparison then if he was caught at 110 kph in a 50 zone that would equal 180 kph on the motorway and probably a court appearance ?

What's the limit on the motorway before it means an automatic court appearance ?

Red Crow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And if he were to make a comparison then if he was caught at 110 kph in a 50 zone that would equal 180 kph on the motorway and probably a court appearance ?

What's the limit on the motorway before it means an automatic court appearance ?

I don't think it's set in stone but for a Motorway I'd imagine that over 140 will land you a day in court under "Driving Carelessly". Techincally the Garda could bring you up over anything but generally I'd say they're given guidelines as to what can be dealt with through the penalty points system and what you should be going to court over. All speeding offences could be death with by way of the penalty points system technically.

RustyNut

Hey op tough break.

Iv just one point to make, you said you didn't see anyone except the car you overtook. You didn't see the dayglow reflective coated police car so what else might you have missed. I live near there and you are likley to get joggers,dog walkers,cyclists there at any time, day or night.

I'd say suck it up learn the lesson and move on, these things make us better drivers at the end of the day.

Peppa Pig

Nobler32 wrote: »

I was heading towards the bend you can see in that photo, bearing in mind that bend is a fair distance away!

There's a double broken white line on that stretch. It tells you that a continuous white line is a short distance ahead, not a fair distance. Where the photo shows is nearly at the end of those lines.
That makes what you did even worse - there was a visual warning, that you traveled a long way on and ignored it. :rolleyes:

BMJD

must be headwreckin trying to have a poop when lads like you are flying around:

http://goo.gl/maps/mMwQO

SV

There's some mad bullshít talk on this thread.

BMJD

BMJD wrote: »

must be headwreckin trying to have a poop when lads like you are flying around:

http://goo.gl/maps/mMwQO

Jaysus, looking at that road on street view really makes 110 kph or 70 odd mph rather like dangerous driving ?

SV

SV wrote: »

There's some mad bullshít talk on this thread.

Is that the only contribution you can make to this thread ?

fl4pj4ck

a friend of mine was in a similar situation, got 3 separate tickets, one for speeding, another one for non displaying tax and 3rd one for not having seatbelt on. he paid first two and went to court upon not paying the 3rd one, and the judge believed him and not the gard

Seve OB

OP gone quiet.....

ibebanging

Pay the bill. Stop moaning. And learn how to drive safely.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

RoryMac

Nobler32 wrote: »

Here it is

I happened to pass that very spot today and one thing you didn't mention and isn't in the google maps pic is that there is now a pedestrian crossing just before the cars to the right in the pic you put up. The stretch of road you overtook the car on now has approx 150mtrs of broken white line, in which you went from 40kph to 80-110kph and back down to 50kph?

Fred Swanson

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There probably isn't a motorist in the country who hasn't broken some law or other. But I'm sure most of them manage not to break lights or do 80-110kph in a 50kph zone whilst overtaking.

Perhaps a generalisation but in my experience people who overtake in 50 zones are impatient, dangerous, aggressive drivers. I don't see the point myself and it's unusual behaviour.

SV

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that the only contribution you can make to this thread ?

I could make a lot more but I'd probably get banned as I'm unsure how to be diplomatic in cases like this.