European Citizen´s Initiative "30kmh – making streets liveable!"

rp

Worth signing: http://en.30kmh.eu/
“At the end of the day, it’s not just about cycling or walking. It’s about being able to live and breathe in a city where you don’t have to feel intimidated by traffic. Cities should be all about people.” (Martti Tulenheimo)

monument

rp wrote: »

Worth signing: http://en.30kmh.eu/
“At the end of the day, it’s not just about cycling or walking. It’s about being able to live and breathe in a city where you don’t have to feel intimidated by traffic. Cities should be all about people.” (Martti Tulenheimo)

It has been hardly used in Ireland besides very limited areas. The Dublin zone backlash hardly helped.

If funded, I hope to be covering the issue in the second edition of Cycling in Dublin http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056932009/1/

check_six

monument wrote: »

It has been hardly used in Ireland besides very limited areas. The Dublin zone backlash hardly helped.

I just don't get the logic behind the backlash against 30kph zones in Dublin city centre. There are traffic lights *everywhere*. The amount of time one would save by going faster than 30kph is merely extra time you can spend contemplating existence at the next set of lights less than 200m away. Leaving aside any traffic, you can only go as fast as the lights permit. This is considerably less than 30kph. There is no "green wave" for a given speed as far as I can tell either. The lights are all out to get you!

I don't buy the complaint everyone made that they wouldn't be able to concentrate on driving because they would be too busy staring at their speedometers. How do you manage to keep inside the speed limit the rest of the time (ignoring the obvious response that many don't)?

Also, exploding engines, and cars incapable of travelling at 30kph (some kind of quantum physics powered engines there!), don't believe it. My own car rolls along at 30kph in 3rd gear without any extra input. Other cars aren't so different.

Comparing this 30kph zone rule and the smoking ban, I suppose the major difference is the enforcement of the law. If we can get away with something we'll try it, especially if we kick up such a fuss that the 30kph zone was shrunk after complaints to Dublin County Council.

Bah!

petethedrummer

monument wrote: »

The Dublin zone backlash hardly helped.

But I can't not press the accelerator!! It's impossible.

Lumen

My objection is simply that 30kph is ridiculously slow, and with the exception of places near schools where kids are crossing, there is no need for a limit that low.

I don't care about cyclists who are terrified by fast moving traffic. Pandering to the incompetent is no basis for transport policy.

dave_o_brien

Lumen wrote: »

My objection is simply that 30kph is ridiculously slow, and with the exception of places near schools where kids are crossing, there is no need for a limit that low.

I don't care about cyclists who are terrified by fast moving traffic. Pandering to the incompetent is no basis for transport policy.

To be fair, I don't think it was brought in to satisfy cyclists exclusively. It's part of a bigger remit to make the city a more enjoyable place to be. Most travelling in the city are on foot. One of the biggest complaints from tourists repeatedly has been that traffic is dangerous and intimidating. The 30kmh limit may seem low for road users (including many cyclists) but it makes a hugely positive difference to pedestrians.

Lumen

dave_o_brien wrote: »

One of the biggest complaints from tourists repeatedly has been that traffic is dangerous and intimidating. The 30kmh limit may seem low for road users (including many cyclists) but it makes a hugely positive difference to pedestrians.

Fair enough. They are morons though.

dave_o_brien

Lumen wrote: »

Fair enough. They are morons though.

Morons with money, though. We accept those kind of morons.

Dotsie~tmp

Be happy if 50k was respected. Not in favour though. I'd like to see a parallel cycle lane network thats actually maintained. Even a 6 spoke hub in Dublin city would transform things. It would be easy to install a proper speedy cycle ring along the canals.

petermijackson

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

It would be easy to install a proper speedy cycle ring along the canals.

The cycle path on the Grand Canal is disaster, from what I can see I am the only idiot to stop and wait for the lights....green pedestrian light does not mean green for bikes....sorry off topic but it just annoys me!!! Lets get what we have right first and that needs proper education for all - cyclists, pedestrians and drivers, we are all road users (depending on the day I can be any of those three)

BofaDeezNuhtz

Lumen wrote: »

My objection is simply that 30kph is ridiculously slow, and with the exception of places near schools where kids are crossing, there is no need for a limit that low.

I don't care about cyclists who are terrified by fast moving traffic. Pandering to the incompetent is no basis for transport policy.

Someone with common sense

Blanket 30kph speedlimit me bollox ffs :mad:

dave_o_brien wrote: »

Morons with money, though. We accept those kind of morons.

Amd where do these poor people come from? Super-duper magical land
where theres no traffic at all is it? The land of sunshine and lollypops is it?
Wheres the survey backing that bs up so the tree-huggers can make me
spend the rest of my life crawling around!

MrCreosote

Suzuki_TL1000R wrote: »

Wheres the survey backing that bs up so the tree-huggers can make me
spend the rest of my life crawling around!

It's not the tree-huggers that's causing you to crawl around.

Given that the actual rate of progression by car in most European cities is less than 20kph (much less in the case of Dublin), 30kph speed is about as aspirational as 50. Bringing in and enforcing a blanket 30kph limit would just annoy motorists unnecessarily and smacks of revenue generation.

Which means I'd be totally in favour of it.

monument

I don't see the need for, as somebody else called it, "blanket" 30km/h across cities and towns.

But 30km/h zones -- based on what we know about the harm reduction of such -- should be the standard in a large percentage of urban areas, ie around urban centres and on residential streets. 40km/h should also be used where 30km/h is a little too slow but 50km/h is undesirable given larger numbers of pedestrians and cyclists.

It's not just about cycling or walking but about more liveable and more attractive towns and cities. For business, for tourism, for shopping, for residents and future residents as we want more and more people to live in cities.

Lumen wrote: »

My objection is simply that 30kph is ridiculously slow, and with the exception of places near schools where kids are crossing, there is no need for a limit that low.

I don't care about cyclists who are terrified by fast moving traffic. Pandering to the incompetent is no basis for transport policy.

Children only need to cross the roads at schools?

Err... incompetent? Because people on bikes or on foot don't like fast traffic, they are incompetent? Are people also incompetent for not wanting the noise of fast moving traffic?

petermijackson wrote: »

The cycle path on the Grand Canal is disaster, from what I can see I am the only idiot to stop and wait for the lights....green pedestrian light does not mean green for bikes....sorry off topic but it just annoys me!!! Lets get what we have right first and that needs proper education for all - cyclists, pedestrians and drivers, we are all road users (depending on the day I can be any of those three)

Will we also cancel all road until motorists or all road users learn to behave?

If not, why are cycling projects so different in this regard?

Suzuki_TL1000R wrote: »

Blanket 30kph speedlimit me bollox ffs :mad:

As above, agreed, a blanket 30km/h speed limit would be silly and unjustifiable.

Suzuki_TL1000R wrote: »

Amd where do these poor people come from? Super-duper magical land
where theres no traffic at all is it? The land of sunshine and lollypops is it?
Wheres the survey backing that bs up so the tree-huggers can make me
spend the rest of my life crawling around!

Few tourists coming into Ireland meet the tag "poor people" and I'm gussing very few come from anywhere where there's no traffic at all.

But Irish cities have far higher rates of car use per head and higher levels of congestion than comparable cities in the EU which are also prime tourists destinations.