'Norwegian' considers Ireland aircraft registrations for dreamliner fleet

Tabnabs

Norwegian may register their new 787 Boeing Dreamliners in Ireland to use Asian crew with corresponding pay and working conditions on its long-haul routes.

The move comes following a Norwegian government-imposed ban on the carrier using personnel of this nationality on their planes registered in Norway.

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/norwegian-considers-ireland-aircraft-registrations/

Is Ireland to become a "flag on convenience"?!

L1011

Become? Bit late for that. Register is full of planes operating for foreign airlines. Volaris's entire fleet is EI- I think, huge proportion of Italian airlines collective fleets, etc

NobodyImportant

Dont think we are a Flag of Convenience, in that the IAA does a pretty good job making sure Irish Registered aircraft are in good shape. Yes, we are used for Tax purposes, but in terms of making sure the aircraft are fit to fly, we are not a flag of covenience IMHO.

roundymac

MYOB wrote: »

Become? Bit late for that. Register is full of planes operating for foreign airlines. Volaris's entire fleet is EI- I think, huge proportion of Italian airlines collective fleets, etc

Under Italian Aviation law all planes operated by Italian companies must be flow under the register of the company that owns the plane, a great way to find out how many planes operated by the Italians are Irish "reg-ed".

donkey balls

Was talking to a SAS pilot who told me that the Red nose people are hiring Spanish CC on really crap wages,This is not the first time were by a company will look at hiring in cheaper labour from other countries it has been going on for years within the transport industry.

Tenger

donkey balls wrote: »

Was talking to a SAS pilot who told me that the Red nose people are hiring Spanish CC on really crap wages,This is not the first time were by a company will look at hiring in cheaper labour from other countries it has been going on for years within the transport industry.

Indeed. The Norwegian CEO is on record as saying that current Euro payscales are "unsustainable in the face of low cost Asian/ME airlines". He wants to offer Asian pay levels to Euro crew in order to level the cost base playing field.
(great idea on paper but completely ignores the high cost of living in Northern Europe)

urajoke

A practice very much used by shipping companies but as Tenger rightly says the high cost of living is an issue. Sailors get around this by living on board the ship and working long periods and saving days off. So instead of working 2 weeks on 2 weeks off they may work for 12 and go home for 6-8 weeks. This is obviously not something CC can do.

CaptainSkidmark

so the staff are on very little wages but live in highly expensive Norway?

donkey balls

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

so the staff are on very little wages but live in highly expensive Norway?

It would look like that at present there is a eastern European transport company seemingly bringing in truck drivers from Asia due to the low wages paid in their home country,And for a number of years some Irish companies have been employing cheap foreign labour here in Ireland.

BuffyBot

so the staff are on very little wages but live in highly expensive Norway?

More likely to be based in Bangkok. Operate BKK -> Scandanavia (stop x days) -> USA (stop x days) and return etc


Not unusual, lots of airlines do/have done similar.

bk

Well if the employees are based in Bangkok and getting a fair wage for their, then that is fair enough.

It would be crazy to give people from Bangkok Norwegian wages *, they would live like kings in Bangkok.

You could argue that by allowing this, they are more likely to hire people in Asia then in Norway. But then how could a Norwegian airline operate, compete and survive if they were forced to pay Norwegian wages while their competitors paid Asian wages.

* Wages and cost of living are very high in Norway, €13 for a pint!! I was once at a house party here in Dublin, mostly Spanish, Polish and Irish, but one Norwegian girl, she says: "I love Dublin, it is so cheap", queue the look of incredulity on every ones face in that room

donkey balls

Having worked for an Airline with operations in nearly every country in the world I agree that wages should show the cost of living for that particular countries operation,At the time I was looking at jobs within the company in NZ&OZ now my job title&grade at the time here was paying more than the other two countries.
But from what I've heard from people Australia has gotten really expensive and the cost of living has risen,Now the thing is all the companies aircraft are registered in the same country where the company is registered&HQ.
Now as for the CEO of the red nose company complaining about what the ME/Asian pay their staff compared to European airlines how come the likes of BA and other major carriers have not tried to lower their employee wage.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this but fair play to the Norwegian minister for employment for stopping them,Employers through out the region are using this recession to batter down employees wages/terms while still making serious money and if they managed to get this operation up and running should we inspect ME/Asian prices of them.
Me thinks not a fooking hope.

Tabnabs

An update on this story, looks like it will be going ahead.

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/air-authorities-powerless-over-norwegian-move/

long range shooter

Tabnabs wrote: »

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/norwegian-considers-ireland-aircraft-registrations/

Is Ireland to become a "flag on convenience"?!

No,its just because of Norways tax regime as usual.
Ask this man why he became a Cypriot cirizen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fredriksen

KCAccidental

long range shooter wrote: »

No,its just because of Norways tax regime as usual.
Ask this man why he became a Cypriot cirizen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fredriksen

because he's a very dodgy businessman?

long range shooter

KCAccidental wrote: »

because he's a very dodgy businessman?

Is Michael OLeary Dodgy too?No,i think it's because he's a clever businessman.

KCAccidental

long range shooter wrote: »

Is Michael OLeary Dodgy too?No,i think it's because he's a clever businessman.

No, Michael O'Leary isn't particularly dodgy, but then again he's never tried this:

In 1985 the Norwegian insurance company Gard got suspicious about losses of cargo from Fredriksen's tankers. A private investigation was initiated and a system for the use of heavy oil as bunker fuel was revealed.[7] The case was turned over to the Norwegian police and in June 1986 Fredriksen's offices in Oslo were searched and several of his nearest associates, and after a while also Fredriksen, were placed in detention while the case was investigated.[8]
After several years of arguments between the various lawyers the case was settled out of court. Fredriksen had to pay a fine of 2 million NOK[9] for risking his crew's life, and in addition had to pay the insurance company Gard an amount of over 800.000 USD.[10]

so, I wouldn't be hero-worshipping a fella who doesn't have much in the way of morals!

long range shooter

KCAccidental wrote: »

No, Michael O'Leary isn't particularly dodgy, but then again he's never tried this:



so, I wouldn't be hero-worshipping a fella who doesn't have much in the way of morals!

No ,but he tried this,so i think they are more or less in the same category.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206322/Ryanair-ordered-review-fuel-policy-making-THREE-emergency-landings-planes-ran-out.html

And when did i say i worshipped him???? he was used as an example:rolleyes:
Hes not the only person talking about moving the business out of Norway because of high taxes.
That same thing goes for both the airline and shipping industry.

urajoke

long range shooter wrote: »

No ,but he tried this,so i think they are more or less in the same category.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206322/Ryanair-ordered-review-fuel-policy-making-THREE-emergency-landings-planes-ran-out.html

And when did i say i worshipped him???? he was used as an example:rolleyes:
Hes not the only person talking about moving the business out of Norway because of high taxes.
That same thing goes for both the airline and shipping industry.

He tried what exactly? Following International fueling policies ?! Which are getting even tighter now because most airlines want to save money.

long range shooter

urajoke wrote: »

He tried what exactly? Following International fueling policies ?! Which are getting even tighter now because most airlines want to save money.

Risking passengers life over fuelcosts,isnt exactly play by the rules?
Some airports are busier than others,then you have to take that into account,not by international fuel policies.

KCAccidental

long range shooter wrote: »

No ,but he tried this,so i think they are more or less in the same category.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206322/Ryanair-ordered-review-fuel-policy-making-THREE-emergency-landings-planes-ran-out.html

And when did i say i worshipped him???? he was used as an example:rolleyes:
Hes not the only person talking about moving the business out of Norway because of high taxes.
That same thing goes for both the airline and shipping industry.

I wouldn't be using him as a good example of business sense against big, bad government taxes. It obvious that he has no interest in helping anyone out, but himself. Most of the population of Norway are very happy with their higher tax and excellent provision of public services.

Just because some selfish oil billionaire doesn't want to part with a few million to help out the country that educated and made him, doesn't make it a bad system!

anyways back on topic...

KCAccidental

long range shooter wrote: »

Is Michael OLeary Dodgy too?No,i think it's because he's a clever businessman.

long range shooter wrote: »

Risking passengers life over fuelcosts,isnt exactly play by the rules?
Some airports are busier than others,then you have to take that into account,not by international fuel policies.

hold on, you just contradicted yourself!

long range shooter

KCAccidental wrote: »

I wouldn't be using him as a good example of business sense against big, bad government taxes. It obvious that he has no interest in helping anyone out, but himself. Most of the population of Norway are very happy with their higher tax and excellent provision of public services.

Just because some selfish oil billionaire doesn't want to part with a few million to help out the country that educated and made him, doesn't make it a bad system!

anyways back on topic...

First of all you don't know anything about Norwegian shipping,and how our government has treated sailors from my country the last 30 years.
Second of all I have worked for Deep sea Supply before,one of Fredriksens many companies,and yes I know it's all about money,but its also about work,and Fredriksen creates work for thousands of people.
And how do you know that Most of the Norwegian population is happy with their taxes and public services??Are you Norwegian like me?!
It's just a matter of time before Norwegian companies will send their tonnage out of the country,and put foreign crew on their vessels,if the tax regime continues the way it is.
It's election coming up soon in Norway,and it certainly doesn't look good for our future sailors,that's for sure,if the right parties comes to power.
The same situation goes for Norwegian as well,it's to bloody expensive to run a business with the taxes that Norway provides at the moment.
Look at SAS,where are they today?

Peregrine

KCAccidental wrote: »

hold on, you just contradicted yourself!

He also used the Daily Mail as his source. The newspaper of record when it comes to all things aviation and Ryanair as we all know.

long range shooter

KCAccidental wrote: »

hold on, you just contradicted yourself!

He's a clever businessman,as in John Fredriksen

andy_g

Back on topic lads this thread is nothing to do with MOL or another airline.
Read the title and get back on topic.