What kind of team do you think Schmidt would go for against New Zealand?

trouttrout

So, if rumors are to be believed Schmidt is going to be the new Irish coach

But what team do you think he'll pick for his first outing?

opinionatedfan

impossible to say

trouttrout

opinionatedfan wrote: »

impossible to say

That's the spirit.

It's not impossible to speculate

I think it will be interesting to see what he does with Henderson. Would love to see him in the second row with POC

dtpc191991

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Henderson
5 POC (c)
6 POM
7 SOB
8 Heaskip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 L. Fitzgerald
12 Olding
13 BOD/Cave
14 Bowe
15 Zebo

16 Strauss
17 Killer/McGrath
18 Hagan/Lutton/Andress
19 Ryan
20 O'Donnell
21 Marmion
22 Madigan
23 Gilroy

trouttrout

dtpc191991 wrote: »

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Henderson
5 POC (c)
6 POM
7 SOB
8 Heaskip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 L. Fitzgerald
12 Olding
13 BOD/Cave
14 Bowe
15 Zebo

16 Strauss
17 Killer/McGrath
18 Hagan/Lutton/Andress
19 Ryan
20 O'Donnell
21 Marmion
22 Madigan
23 Gilroy

I know Archer isn't popular here but he's better than Lutton and imo more or less the same as Hagan

Andress seems to be proving the point that not been seen playing does wonders for your reputation. Anytime I've seen him he's struggled

BGozIE

A lot depends on injuries and how players like Tommy O'Donnell, Henshaw, McSharry, P.Marshal etc play in the summer tour

Injuries aside;

15. Rob Kearney
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Marshall
11. Zebo
10 Sexton
9. Murray
8. Heaslip (c)
7. O'Brien
6. POM
5. POC
4. Ryan
3. Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

Replacements;

Strauss
P.Marshall / Reddan
Gilroy
Ferris
Henderson
Kilcoyne
Archer
Madigan


If you look at the squad from a point of no injuries (rarely happens I know) there is serious competition in the back row, second row and on the wings.

wittycynic

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. O'Connell
5. Ryan
6. O'Mahony
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Olding
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Strauss
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bent
19. Henderson
20. Ferris/Henry
21. Marmion
22. Madigan
23. Fitzgerald

trouttrout

I think Schmidt's seamless rotation of his squad will be a brilliant asset to the national side

justsomebloke

opinionatedfan wrote: »

impossible to say

not exactly. Given the rough number of senior males of 25440 the amount of combinations is 9.21434e+53. So although large, it is not impossible

BGozIE

Just curious have people forgotten about ferris??

Or just a certainty he will be going to japan

dtpc191991

trouttrout wrote: »

I know Archer isn't popular here but he's better than Lutton and imo more or less the same as Hagan

Andress seems to be proving the point that not been seen playing does wonders for your reputation. Anytime I've seen him he's struggled

I will admit I didnt know much about Andress other than he is highly rated by some on here. I know THs need to be carefully managed but Moore and Furlong cant come fast enough.

wittycynic

BGozIE wrote: »

Just curious have people forgotten about ferris??

Or just a certainty he will be going to japan

Haven't forgotten about him but he's gotten so little game time and POM has developed so much, that'd I'd have POM ahead of him. Ferris would be a magnificent option to bring off the bench, a real game changer.

Podge_irl

justsomebloke wrote: »

not exactly. Given the rough number of senior males of 25440 the amount of combinations is 9.21434e+53. So although large, it is not impossible

Well actually, seeing as we have to select front row players in the front row we can narrow it down a bit. If we assume 20% of players are front row qualified (it's probably less than that, but I figure 3/15 is a decent approximation) then we're actually looking at a more manageable 1.0508471e+43 (or 3.2386622e+52 if we let the fatties play outside the front row).

dtpc191991

BGozIE wrote: »

Just curious have people forgotten about ferris??

Or just a certainty he will be going to japan

It seems to be pretty much confirmed, though he has not actually signed on to anyone's books yet.

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/ulster-boss-resigned-to-losing-stephen-ferris-to-japan-29187972.html

Tox56

2 sides with Olding at 12 so far. I know Schmidt isn't afraid to try young players but I think that's going a bit far! He will hopefully be more positive and open to rotation than Kidney, but that doesn't mean he's going to start throwing in 10 year olds from nowhere. If Olding is playing against New Zealand later this year it will be in the JWC, although I have to say I really really like what I've seen of him. Marshall should be back playing by then? If he's injured it will be interesting to see who he goes for


*All of this is assuming Schmidt actually gets the job of course!

BGozIE

If Marshall is injured, i'd say it will be McSharry

ssaye

Tox56 wrote: »

2 sides with Olding at 12 so far. I know Schmidt isn't afraid to try young players but I think that's going a bit far! He will hopefully be more positive and open to rotation than Kidney, but that doesn't mean he's going to start throwing in 10 year olds from nowhere. If Olding is playing against New Zealand later this year it will be in the JWC, although I have to say I really really like what I've seen of him. Marshall should be back playing by then? If he's injured it will be interesting to see who he goes for


*All of this is assuming Schmidt actually gets the job of course!

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/5870.php

WTF

shuffol

Tox56 wrote: »

2 sides with Olding at 12 so far. I know Schmidt isn't afraid to try young players but I think that's going a bit far! He will hopefully be more positive and open to rotation than Kidney, but that doesn't mean he's going to start throwing in 10 year olds from nowhere. If Olding is playing against New Zealand later this year it will be in the JWC, although I have to say I really really like what I've seen of him. Marshall should be back playing by then? If he's injured it will be interesting to see who he goes for


*All of this is assuming Schmidt actually gets the job of course!

He's only a year younger than Henderson who was seeing gametime in the AI's this season, not to mention forwards are normally slower to break through. if he's starting for Ulster you cant rule him out, considering he's been their best player in recent months thats not an unlikely scenario.

Grimebox

I assume its all about game plan rather than the actual starting squad. The starting 15 for tough games will be exactly the same as what Kidney would usually put out. Hopefully there will be far more rotation for many key position like he regularly does with Leinster, it won't be as easy though given there is not as much game-time to go around

dtpc191991

ssaye wrote: »

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/5870.php

WTF

Jesus I nearly had to call an ambulance before I read the date.

ssaye

Day to day coaching V coaching a dozen times a year or so and getting his game plan across to those who are not familiar with him and it will be a challenge but I cant wait to see how it works out.

Realistically change can take a while, his first month with Leinster some wanted him gone due to results.

3/4 place in next years 6N with a new game plan and plan B
and a big push for everything after that towards the world cup.

awec

Henderson should be involved in the 15 on a regular basis going forward I reckon.

If Ferris is fit and available for Ireland then Ferris plays IMO.

awec

Interestingly, not a single mention of Keith Earls yet.

I wonder where he is on the pecking order of wingers.

Tox56

awec wrote: »

Henderson should be involved in the 15 on a regular basis going forward I reckon.

If Ferris is fit and available for Ireland then Ferris plays IMO.

But where? It's a good problem to have but he has to prove he's either a better 6 than POM, or a better second row than Ryan/McCarthy. If he's playing mostly 6 for Ulster (if Ferris leaves this is a distinct possibility) it's hard to justify shifting Ryan or McCarthy, and POM has been in cracking form for Munster and Ireland.

CIARAN_BOYLE

awec wrote: »

Interestingly, not a single mention of Keith Earls yet.

I wonder where he is on the pecking order of wingers.

He is not playing wing for his province so he can't be selected there imo.

awec

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

He is not playing wing for his province so he can't be selected there imo.

I wouldn't play him anywhere else but on the wing, and I'm not sure where abouts in the pecking order he is for there.

Tox56 wrote: »

But where? It's a good problem to have but he has to prove he's either a better 6 than POM, or a better second row than Ryan/McCarthy. If he's playing mostly 6 for Ulster (if Ferris leaves this is a distinct possibility) it's hard to justify shifting Ryan or McCarthy, and POM has been in cracking form for Munster and Ireland.

Fair points, but Henderson is my young player of the season and IMO has a long Ireland career ahead of him where he'll become an important player.

Quint2010

Obviously Schmidt knows the Leinster players best and likes a fast paced and fast tempo game so I could see him picking a team along the lines of:

Healy
Strauss
Ross
Henderson
POC
POM
SOB
Heaslip
Marshall/Reddan
Sexton
Bowe
BOD
Madigan
Fitzgerald
Kearney

awec

Quint2010 wrote: »

Obviously Schmidt knows the Leinster players best and likes a fast paced and fast temp game so I could see him picking a team along the lines of:

Healy
Strauss
Ross
Henderson
POC
POM
SOB
Heaslip
Marshall/Reddan
Sexton
Bowe
BOD
Madigan
Fitzgerald
Kearney

BOD at 12 and Madigan at 13? What is this witchcraft? :pac:

Reddan ahead of Murray?

Fitz ahead of Gilroy / Zebo ?

Grimebox

If he gets the job, I refuse to engage in any arguments that refer to Schmidt having a Leinster bias. That **** drove me insane with Kidney

Quint2010

awec wrote: »

BOD at 12 and Madigan at 13? What is this witchcraft? :pac:

Reddan ahead of Murray?

Fitz ahead of Gilroy / Zebo ?

No Madigan at 12, BOD at 13. Think Zebo's future could be full back would not be surprised to see him play there more often from next season. Kearney seriously needs to rediscover his form soon. Altho Murray had a good season, he doesn't play the type of game Schmidt likes. Reddan is Joe's first choice for Leinster so wouldn't be surprised to see him and Marshall battle it out for the 9 shirt. Murray will be involved for sure just not sure he'd be first name on the team sheet like he was during DK's reign.

freyners

Tried to pick two players for every position. TH i really couldn't decide between the four, fitzpatrick is prob the best out of the 4 but is constantly injured. We do have great strength in depth. Would be very exicted to see what Joe could do with players like the below.

Healy/Kilcoyne
Strauss/Best
Ross/(Fitzpatrick/Archer/Hagan/Loughney)
McCarthy/Henderson
POC/Ryan
Ferris/POM
SOB/Henry
Heaslip/Coughlan
Murray/Marmion
Sexton/Madigan
Gilroy/Fitz
Marshall/McSharry
BOD/Cave
Bowe/Zebo
Kearney/Henshaw

trouttrout

In think Schmidt could really get the best out of Keith Earls

ionadnapokot

Very good Q’s.
I cant wait to see who he chooses at 15, 12, backrow combo’s, the type of game he will try to implement.
Will he drop Kearney for Zebo? Zebo on the wing? & of course The Q’s in Irish rugby for the next few years (please god), Madigan or Sexton.
Very exciting times. Oh yea & his capt.
I don’t think he will change personnel much for the nz game & If i was to guess:
15 RK 14 TB 13 BO’D (c) 12 PW! LM 11 SZ 10 JS 9 CM 8 JH 7 SO’B 6 IH 5 MMcC 4 PO’C 3 MR 2 RB 1 CH
16 RS 17 DK 18 SA? 19 DR 20 P’OM 21 ER 22 IM 23 LF

Tox56

Quint2010 wrote: »

No Madigan at 12, BOD at 13. Think Zebo's future could be full back would not be surprised to see him play there more often from next season. Kearney seriously needs to rediscover his form soon. Altho Murray had a good season, he doesn't play the type of game Schmidt likes. Reddan is Joe's first choice for Leinster so wouldn't be surprised to see him and Marshall battle it out for the 9 shirt. Murray will be involved for sure just not sure he'd be first name on the team sheet like he was during DK's reign.

He'll pick Murray, he's the best 9 by too much of a distance not to. Maybe he'll switch it up occasionally with Reddan but he's getting on a bit, and I don't think Marshall is international standard.

irishbucsfan

All being fit:

Healy, Best, Ross, POC, Ryan, SOB, Henry, Heaslip; Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Marshall, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Pretty much the same team I'd have expected Kidney to pick. Only place I think they'd differ is at 6.

Podge_irl

In any close call I think Schmidt will go with the player with better passing and handling. It really is key to the game Leinster play.

RoundBox11

trouttrout wrote: »

I know Archer isn't popular here but he's better than Lutton and imo more or less the same as Hagan

Andress seems to be proving the point that not been seen playing does wonders for your reputation. Anytime I've seen him he's struggled

I totally disagree with you here.

Lutton is just out of the AIL and is a LH/Hooker converted to a tighthead and already he's been at the very least solid. In my opinion he's been very good. Definitely more consistant than Archer with better technique.

As for Hagan, he seems to have taken a bit of a jump recently and has asked some serious questions of the opposition scrum. I now look forward to seeing him scrummage when he comes on. He's only going to get better playing in the premiership too.

Hopefully Joe will realize that Archer shouldn't be anywhere near test rugby

trouttrout

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I totally disagree with you here.

Lutton is just out of the AIL and is a LH/Hooker converted to a tighthead and already he's been at the very least solid. In my opinion he's been very good. Definitely more consistant than Archer with better technique.

As for Hagan, he seems to have taken a bit of a jump recently and has asked some serious questions of the opposition scrum. I now look forward to seeing him scrummage when he comes on. He's only going to get better playing in the premiership too.

Hopefully Joe will realize that Archer shouldn't be anywhere near test rugby

You've completely neglected to mention Archer's form this season. He's not ready for test rugby, but none of those above are

Archer has been very good for Munster this season, his scrummaging has improved infinitely and he's very effective in the loose

Reality is we've got two TH's in Hagan and Archer that have improved a lot this season, but still not enough to stop the fear for injury to Mike Ross. Lutton has a total of 3 appearances in the pro game if I'm not mistaken?

Podge_irl

I wouldn't want any of Lutton, Archer or Hagan in the international team. Forced to pick though I'd probably take Hagan as he has actually looked very good in the last couple months (annoyingly). However, we all know how long it has taken him to get to that level while at Leinster so its stupidly early to write off Archer who has definitely shown signs of improvement.

awec

Archer was awful when he came on in the 6N, he folded like a deckchair in the scrums. It was the Italy game I think?

But we're back to that old problematic position of TH. The best NIQ in Ireland is NIQ unfortunately and we only really have one obvious IQ who's clearly good enough. The rest have their flaws.

RoundBox11

trouttrout wrote: »

You've completely neglected to mention Archer's form this season. He's not ready for test rugby, but none of those above are

Archer has been very good for Munster this season, his scrummaging has improved infinitely and he's very effective in the loose

Well i've seen almost all of munsters games this season, so i'm not neglecting his form, i'm just acknowledging that it's not nearly test standard.

Yes he's improved, but improving from being the worst tighthead in the country isn't saying much. As for his work in the loose, i don't know what is considered effective at this rate. I mean give the ball to anyone of his weight and they should be able to bash forward a meter or two and fall to the ground.

For what it's worth, assuming all players are fit, my XV would be:

Healy
Best
Ross
Henderson
O'Connell
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip

Murray
Sexton
Zebo
Marshall
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Replacements: Court, Strauss, Hagan, Ryan, POM, Marshall, Madigan, McFadden

trouttrout

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Well i've seen almost all of munsters games this season, so i'm not neglecting his form, i'm just acknowledging that it's not nearly test standard.

Yes he's improved, but improving from being the worst tighthead in the country isn't saying much. As for his work in the loose, i don't know what is considered effective at this rate. I mean give the ball to anyone of his weight and they should be able to bash forward a meter or two and fall to the ground.

For what it's worth, assuming all players are fit, my XV would be:

Healy
Best
Ross
Henderson
O'Connell
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip

Murray
Sexton
Zebo
Marshall
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Replacements: Court, Strauss, Hagan, Ryan, POM, Marshall, Madigan, McFadden

I never said it was. It's a sign of the lack of quality we have at TH that we have to consider guys like Archer, Hagan and Bent for the national team bench

awec

trouttrout wrote: »

I never said it was. It's a sign of the lack of quality we have at TH that we have to consider guys like Archer, Hagan and Bent for the national team bench

What do we do if Mike Ross gets injured?!

Podge_irl

trouttrout wrote: »

I never said it was. It's a sign of the lack of quality we have at TH that we have to consider guys like Archer, Hagan and Bent for the national team bench

If Deccie Fitz could only manage to stay bloody fit we'd be fine. Loughney did alright there down south as well didn't he? (or did he play LH I can't even remember).

White will stroll into the team when he becomes IQ.

trouttrout

awec wrote: »

What do we do if Mike Ross gets injured?!

pray.

Look I think one of Hagan or Archer will be able to fill in if their progression continues but we need another season from Ross

Chabals Beard

It would be shamefully wrong to drop POM for Ferris because Ferris is fit, POM has owned the 6 jersey and he has has a fantastic (he could be up there with one of the Irish players of the season) . Imo Ferris would have to do a huge amount of work to get back into the starting 15 ..

opinionatedfan

Chabals Beard wrote: »

It would be shamefully wrong to drop POM for Ferris because Ferris is fit, POM has owned the 6 jersey and he has has a fantastic (he could be up there with one of the Irish players of the season) . Imo Ferris would have to do a huge amount of work to get back into the starting 15 ..

Disagree. Pom isn't in a fit ferris's class

Glass Prison 1214

Chabals Beard wrote: »

It would be shamefully wrong to drop POM for Ferris because Ferris is fit, POM has owned the 6 jersey and he has has a fantastic (he could be up there with one of the Irish players of the season) . Imo Ferris would have to do a huge amount of work to get back into the starting 15 ..

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Disagree. Pom isn't in a fit ferris's class

When Ferris is fully fit there isn't a better 6 in the world imo. If he is fit hes plays

trouttrout

Ferris hasn't been fit for a consistent spell for a long time. Added to the fact that he's probably going to Japan I think we should be planning ahead without him

If he comes back fit and rejuvenated all well and good but that's not in anyway garunteed

Podge_irl

I don't expect to ever see Ferris in an Ireland jersey again (sadly). However, if fit and anywhere near his best then he is as automatic a selection as they come. He won't be selected while playing in Japan though.

Tox56

trouttrout wrote: »

Ferris hasn't been fit for a consistent spell for a long time. Added to the fact that he's probably going to Japan I think we should be planning ahead without him

Fair, balanced, rational... the suggestion that dropping POM for Ferris would be "shamefully wrong" however...