Does anyone feel insulted by the abortion proposals?

sunshine and showers

stanley 2 wrote: »

Even if the reason is that the couple only want one child and this one is a girl and they would prefer to terminate this one and wait till they produce a Boy child .

Even if this was a one night stand and it would not have been so bad if the father had not been African Irish.

You do realise that you are attempting to use extremely rare (if they even occur) circumstances to gloss over the many, many other reasons someone might need to/want to have an abortion, don't you?

You simply cannot take such an extreme example and use it as a justification to ignore all other possibilities. This is far too complex an issue for that.

Frito

stanley 2 wrote: »

come on smell the coffee female infancide would be reduced by restricting abortion thats a no brainer

I love the cliche game, surpassed only by "what would I do if I won the Euromillions?"
So I'll see your "wake up and smell the coffee" with "there's more than one way to skin a cat" and raise you "where there's a will there's a way".

Reducing female infanticide is best achieved by raising the status of women, not by restricting abortion. If I'm correctly recalling the line about Catholicism being the best of many paths to the top of the mountain, to adapt it to here would be to argue that making the path a bit narrower will not stop people from getting to the top of the mountain if they have reason to do so. The implication of course being we should address their reasons for wanting to go up in the first place.

claypigeon777

If Youth Defence had their way no woman of child bearing age would be allowed to leave our ports and airports without first submitting to a pregnancy test. If they are discovered to be pregnant they will be sent to a special detention center for pregnant women where they will be strapped to a cot and fed with a tube to eliminate any chance of them having an abortion before they give birth. Any woman found to have had an abortion in Ireland or abroad would of course be sentenced to life meaning life in prison without parole along with their accomplices whether it is husbands, boyfriends, partners, parents, siblings, friends etc. Doctors who live in foreign jurisdictions would be targeted by snatch squads of Catholic commandos who would either drug them and smuggle them back or eliminate them Mossad style. Drones piloted remotely by Catholic priests would be able to target and kill doctors from thousands of feet above the ground.

Paddy Cow

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I also think a point is being missed that this was not in anyway a cure, rather it extended survival by up to two months, now obviously I disagree with the decision but this may explain why it was reached.

Two months is a long time when the alternative is death. Besides, not only does it give the patient and their family more time, it provides doctors and scientists with valuable data to see how the drugs work and develop them further. If all trials were abandoned because they weren't a cure, medicine would progress at a snail's pace.

The abortion debate winds me up. Contrary to what some pro-lifers think, it's not simply a case of a woman making a cold-hearted decision, having an abortion and moving on with her life as if nothing happened. Women agonise over their decision and feel the emotional fallout for years, even if they know intellectualy it was the right decision for them.

I am pro-choice and I would prefer to see counselling offered to women/couples who see abortion as an option, rather than judging them. Ultimately it is the woman who has to go through the abortion but men have feelings too and also deserve support.

stanley 2

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Two months is a long time when the alternative is death. Besides, not only does it give the patient and their family more time, it provides doctors and scientists with valuable data to see how the drugs work and develop them further. If all trials were abandoned because they weren't a cure, medicine would progress at a snail's pace.

The abortion debate winds me up. Contrary to what some pro-lifers think, it's not simply a case of a woman making a cold-hearted decision, having an abortion and moving on with her life as if nothing happened. Women agonise over their decision and feel the emotional fallout for years, even if they know intellectualy it was the right decision for them.

I am pro-choice and I would prefer to see counselling offered to women/couples who see abortion as an option, rather than judging them. Ultimately it is the woman who has to go through the abortion but men have feelings too and also deserve support.

ultimately its the child and usually the female child that goes throught the abortion not the father or mother

Hobbitfeet

stanley 2 wrote: »

ultimately its the child and usually the female child that goes throught the abortion not the father or mother

What a disgusting, offensive and totally uneducated comment.

stanley 2

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Stanley 2 - try to make a coherent argument and stay on topic please.

I think you may be showing your on one side of the argument not a proper place for a moderator . i think if you take time and reread my argument you will find them uncomfortable but true they may seem in coherent to you but coherent to some one who is prolife or is this just an antilife thread if so i apoligise

Amirani

stanley 2 wrote: »

ultimately its the child and usually the female child that goes throught the abortion not the father or mother

What a load of rubbish. Do you have any empathy whatsoever?

astrofool

stanley 2 wrote: »

I think you may be showing your on one side of the argument not a proper place for a moderator . i think if you take time and reread my argument you will find them uncomfortable but true they may seem in coherent to you but coherent to some one who is prolife or is this just an antilife thread if so i apoligise

Your argument is not uncomfortable, just wrong, abortion is allowed in India, female infanticide is illegal, the rate of female infanticide is not affected by being legally able to access abortion.

rainbow kirby

stanley 2 wrote: »

I think you may be showing your on one side of the argument not a proper place for a moderator . i think if you take time and reread my argument you will find them uncomfortable but true they may seem in coherent to you but coherent to some one who is prolife or is this just an antilife thread if so i apoligise

I did reread your argument. I see rants about female infanticide and gender-selective abortion, with a vaguely racist undertone. Not at all relevant to the the Irish situation and not on topic.

Nobody is anti-life, that's a ridiculous statement to make.

Paddy Cow

stanley 2 wrote: »

ultimately its the child and usually the female child that goes throught the abortion not the father or mother

There is so much ignorance and racism implied in this comment I know that even if I produced a well thought out two page argument it would fall on deaf ears.

stanley 2

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I did reread your argument. I see rants about female infanticide and gender-selective abortion, with a vaguely racist undertone. Not at all relevant to the the Irish situation and not on topic.

Nobody is anti-life, that's a ridiculous statement to make.

there is plenty of examples of people who were anti life in history the comunists in any country they got control of the fascist in any country they got control of the list goes on

Ash.J.Williams

stanley 2 wrote: »

there is plenty of examples of people who were anti life in history the comunists in any country they got control of the fascist in any country they got control of the list goes on

irrelevant though?

stanley 2

stanley 2 wrote: »

is this just an antilife thread if so i apoligise

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Nobody is anti-life, that's a ridiculous statement to make.

stanley 2 wrote: »

there is plenty of examples of people who were anti life in history

Best (read worst :rolleyes:) red herring I've seen in ages. Well done!

Frito

stanley 2 wrote: »

there is plenty of examples of people who were anti life in history the comunists in any country they got control of the fascist in any country they got control of the list goes on

Their issue was restricting freedom of choice and expression, the irony is delicious.

stanley 2

Deleted User wrote: »

Best (read worst :rolleyes:) red herring I've seen in ages. Well done!

thanks for the support seem to be ploughing a lonely furrow here

Morag

Unfortunately no more changes can be made to the abortion law as it stands after the X case was finally legislated for. To include the right to an abortion which most people agree with we will have to have a referendum to repeal the 8th amendment.

That campgain will be kicking off with in the next month or so with the next March for Choice
happening on the 28th of September in Dublin, on International Day to Decriminalise Abortion Day same as it did last year.

stanley 2

Morag wrote: »

Unfortunately no more changes can be made to the abortion law as it stands after the X case was finally legislated for. To include the right to an abortion which most people agree with we will have to have a referendum to repeal the 8th amendment.

That campgain will be kicking off with in the next month or so with the next March for Choice
happening on the 28th of September in Dublin, on International Day to Decriminalise Abortion Day same as it did last year.

Dont think the babbys would agree with it

lazygal

stanley 2 wrote: »

Dont think the babbys would agree with it

What are babbys?


My as yet to be born foetus has no strong opinions on anything one way or the other.

stanley 2

lazygal wrote: »

What are babbys?


My as yet to be born foetus has no strong opinions on anything one way or the other.

congradulations I will pray for you and your ( ) your right she may not have strong opinions but she has opinions one of the strongest ones is to live . She is very lucky to have a mother like you because you are strong intelegent and i can tell by your posts you think things out we may not agree when or how life begins but i respect you and probally would agree on a lot of things or at least have crack debating them . I know that at the end of the day you will defend your ( ) nomater what it took
regards and congradulations again

lazygal

stanley 2 wrote: »

congradulations I will pray for you and your ( ) your right she may not have strong opinions but she has opinions one of the strongest ones is to live . She is very lucky to have a mother like you because you are strong intelegent and i can tell by your posts you think things out we may not agree when or how life begins but i respect you and probally would agree on a lot of things or at least have crack debating them . I know that at the end of the day you will defend your ( ) nomater what it took
regards and congradulations again

Well I guess I'll take those wishes in the spirit in which they were intended. BTW, it could be a boy either.

kylith

stanley 2 wrote: »

Dont think the babbys would agree with it

Foetuses don't have much of an opinion on anything, what with not having functioning brains.

dharma200

dharma200 wrote: »

This man would rather women die without receiving health care, if they have to take contraception. His ethos is disgusting and he should be removed from the board. The Mater is not a hospital I would choose for pre natal care. Very dangerous when people like this man have a say:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/three-who-stopped-the-cancer-tests-25960150.html

Mater Hospital to Comply with Legislation

Mater Hospital wrote:

The Mater Hospital has carefully considered the Act. The Hospital’s priority is to be at the frontier of compassion, concern and clinical care for all our patients. Having regard to that duty, the Hospital will comply with the law as provided for in the act.

The hospital’s compliance with the legislation came into question during the summer when a member of its board of directors said it could “not comply” with the legislation as it ran counter to its Catholic ethos. Fr Kevin Doran, who sits on both the board of directors and the board of governors would not comment this afternoon on the hospital’s decision or his future involvement in it ... When asked yesterday about the hospital’s decision, Fr Doran said: “I’m not going to comment on anything. This has just happened.”

According to RTE, under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act, individual medical practitioners who have a conscientious objection to abortion cannot be forced to carry out a termination. However, institutions enjoy no such rights.

It's frustrating that religious groups still control so many of the public institutions in this country but heartening to see that (apart from employment discrimination) they are not above the law ... anymore ... hopefully.

lilmissprincess

Did anyone else see this yesterday?

http://www.thejournal.ie/bpas-abortion-ireland-1155918-Nov2013/

]The British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS) has taken out an advertisement in The Irish Times newspaper today with the provocative slogan “We’ll care for your women until your government does”.

The full text of the advertisement reads:
As if deciding to have an abortion wasn’t enough of a journey
Almost 4,000 Irish women have to travel to Britain for help every year.
We’ll care for your women until your government does

As this has quietened down in the last while, I think this and the resulting twitter campaign may keep up the pressure on this government to do something, whether it will lead anywhere is another thing...

FouxDaFaFa

I didn't see it in the paper but heard about it online and thought it was unbelievably ballsy of them.

"We'll care for your women until your government does".

Ouch.

Chattastrophe!

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

I didn't see it in the paper but heard about it online and thought it was unbelievably ballsy of them.

"We'll care for your women until your government does".

Ouch.

I think it's a fair comment, though!

And as lmp said, it's good to keep pressure on the government, rather than letting the issue fade away again for another while.

meeeeh

I hope they start slagging match with the youth defence or whatever they are called. It will be good for advertising revenues. As for the ad, considering uk is at the top of EU in teenage pregnancy rates, maybe they should first do better job at home before they start advising other countries.

eviltwin

Good ad, I think its good for people here to be reminded that abortion hasn't gone away.

Millicent

meeeeh wrote: »

I hope they start slagging match with the youth defence or whatever they are called. It will be good for advertising revenues. As for the ad, considering uk is at the top of EU in teenage pregnancy rates, maybe they should first do better job at home before they start advising other countries.

Considering they take at least 4,000 of our women into their clinics each year, I think they're well within their rights to be advising our country. We're the ones who made it their business to do so.

meeeeh

Millicent wrote: »

Considering they take at least 4,000 of our women into their clinics each year, I think they're well within their rights to be advising our country. We're the ones who made it their business to do so.

I wonder what the reaction would be if a germab agency placed an ad 'we'll take care of you for the next few years since your government can't". Why are people so enthusiastic to be patronised by uk?

Oh and as far as I know they get paid by those who are not covered by nhs.

Edit: actually if this is just advertisement for commercial service then I have no problem with it.