Does anyone feel insulted by the abortion proposals?

Cosmicfox

Must be the eleventy billionth time I've seen that question asked...

kylith

BlimpGaz wrote: »

Question:

If there was/is a method of simply "putting a human to sleep" i.e. facilitating them a 100% painless death, should a new-born child be legally allowed be given it if the parent/s of that child wish? I really don't see the difference between that and abortion, except studies have actually proven that it is possible for a 4+ month year old fetus to feel physical pain, so if anything it's not as bad. Anyone pro-choice people have an explanation?

That's actually incorrect. While the nervous system is developing from about 3 weeks after conception it can't feel pain until about 24 weeks, about 6 months, and that is one of the reasons that the cut-off for abortion is set at around 24 weeks in the UK.

There is an enormous difference between a foetus at 4 months and a full-term infant; at 4 months the foetus is small enough to fit in your hand, about a third the size of a newborn, covered in hair, and would not survive outside the uterus. A newborn baby is significantly larger, capable of surviving outside the womb, and has a fully developed nervous system.

Hope that information helps. Also, please bear in mind that most abortions take place before 12 weeks.

meeeeh

BlimpGaz wrote: »

Question:

If there was/is a method of simply "putting a human to sleep" i.e. facilitating them a 100% painless death, should a new-born child be legally allowed be given it if the parent/s of that child wish? I really don't see the difference between that and abortion, except studies have actually proven that it is possible for a 4+ month year old fetus to feel physical pain, so if anything it's not as bad. Anyone pro-choice people have an explanation?

Oh yeah it's exactly the same. We should also prosecute every woman who miss carries for negligent manslaughter. I mean what normal parent would let their child die.

I don't expect everybody to have the same opinion as I do and there are some perfectly reasonable pro life people. You are not one of them.

B0jangles

Blimpgaz is a (particularly dull) troll.

Morag

The brave couples from Terminations for medical reasons will be in the Dáil and are asking for people to contact their TDs.

http://www.terminationformedicalreasons.com/

"URGENT NOTICE. We will be in the AV room of the Dail this coming thursday at 2pm. Please please encourage your local TD's to attend to at least hear our voices. This is so very important. Even if they come and listen to us for a half an hour. Please encourage all those TD'S who are against our cause to attend. Its their job no matter what their views to listen to the people who voted for them. Please share Thank you so much"

kat.mac

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/state-settled-with-cancer-patient-1.555035

Words actually fail me right now.

YumCha

All I can say after following the hearings for the last 3 days is that I just can't wait for this legislation to pass so I can FINALLY rush out and fake being suicidal so I can get myself an abortion...

Girls, who's with me? These floodgates aren't going to open themselves you know...

:rolleyes:

Obliq

YumCha wrote: »

All I can say after following the hearings for the last 3 days is that I just can't wait for this legislation to pass so I can FINALLY rush out and fake being suicidal so I can get myself an abortion...

Girls, who's with me? These floodgates aren't going to open themselves you know...

:rolleyes:

Oh yeah, for sure. I also can't wait for the time I'm in the position of being pregnant when I can't support a child/don't want a child/am seriously ill/know the fetus won't survive and instead of knowing how strong I have to be to beg/borrow/steal the money for an abortion, book flights and clinic, have other kids(if any) minded - I can fall apart at the seams and hand myself to the state to be examined like a cow in calf and questioned about my criminal intent. YAY! Can't wait.

lazygal

I'm fuming this Bill wasn't passed before now:mad::mad::mad:. I'm six months pregnant, and i could have killed my tiiineeee preshus preborn child in one of the abortion clinics that'll spring up immediately after its legal:mad::mad::mad:. Cos women don't really want to be pregnant ever, and abort every time they've a holiday booked or a dress to fit into, and no one ever goes through invasive procedures, spending a fortune in the process, to get pregnant. No, the wimmins will abort, given half a chance, and they'll lie to do it if they have to.

Obliq

lazygal wrote: »

I'm fuming this Bill wasn't passed before now:mad::mad::mad:. I'm six months pregnant, and i could have killed my tiiineeee preshus preborn child in one of the abortion clinics that'll spring up immediately after its legal:mad::mad::mad:. Cos women don't really want to be pregnant ever, and abort every time they've a holiday booked or a dress to fit into, and no one ever goes through invasive procedures, spending a fortune in the process, to get pregnant. No, the wimmins will abort, given half a chance, and they'll lie to do it if they have to.

How very dare you go having a baby because you want to. Sure, you can't really be pro-choice if you're not intending to kill your baybees and now you've left it too late - where's your solidarity, eh? :eek:

lazygal

Obliq wrote: »

How very dare you go having a baby because you want to. Sure, you can't really be pro-choice if you're not intending to kill your baybees and now you've left it too late - where's your solidarity, eh? :eek:

i'm really letting the side down. And I have a one year old at home too. I probably shouldn't be heading out to work, I should be at home with her or bringing her to protests with pictures of dead babies outside the Dáil.

Of course, having a complete lack of empathy I don't know why anyone doesn't think my choices should be those every woman should make and I don't have the ability to see that other women might make different choices to me, or that I might need access to an abortion myself in the future, or my daughter might.

CroatoanCat

Superb piece by Miriam Lord in The Irish Times yesterday. Sums up the whole depressing farce really.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/doctors-differ-patients-fly-and-majority-in-leinster-house-give-abortion-bill-a-wide-berth-1.1400702

lilmissprincess

It was a full two hours before the famous floodgates were mentioned, courtesy of Senator Fidelma Healy Eames, with an interesting take on how the pregnant women of Ireland will surf in their thousands through those gates on a wave of phony suicidal intent.
Offer them an abortion, but only if they can prove they want to kill themselves. It’s an attractive proposition apparently.
It would be like, she posited, offering people 50 per cent off their mortgages if they can prove they are suicidal.

How did she get elected?

rainbow kirby

lilmissprincess wrote: »

How did she get elected?

She's a senator, most likely a FG appointee. Not elected.

meeeeh

She is a FG senator.

CroatoanCat

Sorry to be linky mad this afternoon, but here is an article by Senator John Crown which contains some very pertinent points:

http://profjohncrown.com/2013/05/20/a-thoroughly-irish-coup/

Ash.J.Williams

bunch of assholes protesting on my estate yesterday and shoving snuff literiture through our letterboxes....envelope even says "do not open if you are under 18" as if that would stop a kid from opening....if i saw the delivery person they would have wished they were aborted...

allym

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

bunch of assholes protesting on my estate yesterday and shoving snuff literiture through our letterboxes....envelope even says "do not open if you are under 18" as if that would stop a kid from opening....if i saw the delivery person they would have wished they were aborted...

Seriously?? Jesus what awful tactics.

I haven't had anyone delivering anything or knocking on the door to talk about it. Best for them really because I don't think I'd be able to control myself

FouxDaFaFa

lilmissprincess wrote: »

How did she get elected?

She has never been elected by the people of Galway. She ran in the General Election and didn't make it, so of course was made a Senator instead.

She is one politician who really boils my blood. She considers herself well above the law when it suits her.

Accused of fare-dodging on Galway-Dublin train.

Likes jacuzzis, dislikes paying for them.

Car seized for not paying tax.

What planning permission? Lol.

vitani

As a couple of people pointed out on Twitter yesterday, floodgates are actually designed to open to release water in a controlled fashion.

lilmissprincess

I should really have written "get put in a position of power".

I'm just not understanding how not legislating for suicide would still fulfil the European Courts ruling. Is that not the basis of the X Case?

LittleBook

lilmissprincess wrote: »

How did she get elected?

I mentioned in an earlier post that it simply beggars belief the number of people who have not been elected by the public have a say in this process and actually presume to represent the public. :mad:

And here's a handy list of how TDs voted in Clare Daly's abortion bill last November.

Not sure what the breakdown is for senators ... obviously we know how Mullens and Healy-Eames feel cos they won't shut up about it.

This press release from Action On X shows how biased the panel of "expert witnesses" is.

Neyite

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

She has never been elected by the people of Galway. She ran in the General Election and didn't make it, so of course was made a Senator instead.

She is one politician who really boils my blood. She considers herself well above the law when it suits her.

Accused of fare-dodging on Galway-Dublin train.

Likes jacuzzis, dislikes paying for them.

Car seized for not paying tax.

What planning permission? Lol.

Ah, ol "Fiddles" as the Galway forum have aptly named her!

meeeeh

Well that is a prime example how any idiot is good enough to increase female quota for PR purposes without political system being reformed to be more female friendly and actually offer a choice of quality female candidates.

Because of the whip system and because most people made up their minds on abortion anyway these hearings don't make one bit of a difference. For the same reason it doesn't matter how anybody voted for Clare Daly's bill. They voted as parties told them to vote, only independents were actually voting according their beliefs.

LittleBook

meeeeh wrote: »

Because of the whip system and because most people made up their minds on abortion anyway these hearings don't make one bit of a difference. For the same reason it doesn't matter how anybody voted for Clare Daly's bill. They voted as parties told them to vote, only independents were actually voting according their beliefs.

True, but isn't it amazing how the whip system only works when it suits anti-abortion TDs.

Ash.J.Williams

LittleBook wrote: »

True, but isn't it amazing how the whip system only works when it suits anti-abortion TDs.

if she votes against the whip then it's off to the back bench or beyond

meeeeh

LittleBook wrote: »

True, but isn't it amazing how the whip system only works when it suits anti-abortion TDs.

The whip will just show if she is prepared to sacrifice her personal beliefs for political career. It;s nothing new. I bet that more labor tds agree with Daly bill than this one yet they all voted against the Daly bill and will vote for the current government one. If Creighton actually stands up for her beliefs that can be admired. She is still an idiot though.

LittleBook

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

if she votes against the whip then it's off to the back bench or beyond

Ah now don't get my hopes up

Precious flower

I remember we got a leaflet through our door about Fine Gael failing the people by allowing a debate on abortion to happen and that it would lead to abortion 'on demand'. Was so angry when I read it. They made it sound like you'd mention you were getting an abortion in the same sentence as saying you were getting your hair done.:mad: Women don't just make the immediate decision to get an abortion, I'm sure it's a decision that is not made at all easily. I've heard as well that outside abortion clinics in America women are hassled and hecked at as they go in by pro-life protestors. Must be so awful.

kat.mac

A great insight into the anti-choice mentality: http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

Found the link over on Atheism & Agnosticism.

I feel even more insulted having read that, and I really didn't think that was possible.