Sexed semen trial

keep going

if this sexed semen proves itself to be comerial,what do you think the implications will be for the dairy industry .what effect would it have on the suckler or beef buisiness

Timmaay

keep going wrote: »

if this sexed semen proves itself to be comerial,what do you think the implications will be for the dairy industry .what effect would it have on the suckler or beef buisiness

Someone suggested it will be the death of the suckler farmer, as the dairyfarmer only needs to breed 1/2 the replacement stock, leaving him producing much more beef calves as a byproduct, however a reasonable counter argument is that with no male dairy calfs produced, there will be more demand for the beef calves anyways. But assuming it works as good as normal ai, it certianly is good news for agricultural in Ireland. Does that mean more money in the farmers pocket I dont know though, the factories arent long dropping the prices when they see fit.

Biggest bonus for the dairyfarmer is to speed up genetic improvement of your herd, you get a heifer every year instead of every second from you best cows.

delaval

We are part of trial but Ai man never turned up yesterday so I don't think that will work either no call nothing.
We worked away
I'm sure hell be here today. It will fast track genitic gain and leave us with few bulls I hope

whelan1

delaval wrote: »

We are part of trial but Ai man never turned up yesterday so I don't think that will work either no call nothing.
We worked away
I'm sure hell be here today. It will fast track genitic gain and leave us with few bulls I hope

we signed up too, bad form if ai man didnt turn up:eek:

keep going

Anybody on here do it and how did scanning go

delaval

We scanned and found no difference between the different straws and are using on entire herd next year

FYM

Did you have the pregnancies sexed delaval.

delaval

FYM wrote: »

Did you have the pregnancies sexed delaval.

No scanned too late but conception was no different to conventional

I suppose the proof of the pudding is on the eating. We have a blank white tag in each heifer that got sexed straw, calving will tell a tale

Milked out

delaval wrote: »

No scanned too late but conception was no different to conventional

I suppose the proof of the pudding is on the eating. We have a blank white tag in each heifer that got sexed straw, calving will tell a tale

Do you get in the AI man for all servings or do you or one of your staff carry out any of the AI sexed or conventional , just asking as I hope to use sexed semen on my autumn heifers and possibly any fertile cow which calved with no problems early in the season. I carry out DIY AI, about 160 animals a year, here normally and wondering should I leave it to the lads at it every day

mf240

Milked out wrote: »

Do you get in the AI man for all servings or do you or one of your staff carry out any of the AI sexed or conventional , just asking as I hope to use sexed semen on my autumn heifers and possibly any fertile cow which calved with no problems early in the season. I carry out DIY AI, about 160 animals a year, here normally and wondering should I leave it to the lads at it every day

If your are competent at AI you will get better results than a lad rushing to next call.

I used a few straws this year on cows that are easy to get in calf. (DIY) and they are in calf.

Will do a batch of heifers with it in nov/dec.

Milked out

mf240 wrote: »

If your are competent at AI you will get better results than a lad rushing to next call.

I used a few straws this year on cows that are easy to get in calf. (DIY) and they are in calf.

Will do a batch of heifers with it in nov/dec.

That's a good point alrite, have good enough results with autumn heifers so will most likely do those myself, they're bulling away at the moment and are in good enough nic. Hoping to start breeding around the 15 dec and have the autumn side done around the 15 feb. Hoping to get as much of it done while they will still be on the consistency of the winter diet, when they start heading out to grass it could reduce conception rates if they're in and out due to bad weather etc, I think anyway

mf240

Will lads reduce the amount of cows they breed to friesan if sexed semen works.

If I was reasonably happy that I had enough for my own replacements I would breed more beef calves.

Can you get it sexed the other way, so you could have all friesan heifers first and them contenetal bulls from the rest.

Milked out

It would depend on how things play out after 2015 I'd say, Most definitely any cow that I wouldn't want a replacement from I'd stick a blue in her or anything that may calve from march onwards, but a heifer calf for sale could match the price of any continental bull calve depending on demand in any given year, prob even more so from a cross bred herd, altho I don't know what prices they make.
I generally have enough heifers doing the above already once all heifers are AI to friesan, where sexed semen would really work is getting heifers from the best cows every year

mf240

Another thing is for heifers calving, heifer calves would be that bit easier calved.

If it takes off it will shake up the industry. Hard to imagine anybody running a dairy bull if they could avoid dairy bull calves completely.

TEAT SQUEEZER

good point about the stock bull alright... sexed semen will be a negative thing where genetic diversity is concerned imo, where will the studs get their bulls to test also?.... contract matings with male sexed straws perhaps?????

manjou

Think best thing to come out of it would take the gamble of bulling all cows to get replacements and then getting bulls out of best cows and heifers out of worst ones.As for beef farmers it might make beef calves cheaper as more of them in mart and less friesen bull calves so less calves being exported.

keep going

The downside is it will probably make the milk price swings even bigger but if it proves successful it could revolutionize farming in ireland

Timmaay

Sexed semen in Ireland will have absolutely zero bearing on the milk prices! We only supply a drop in the ocean in comparison to other countries (especially the USA). The big HOs over there only last 2 or 3 lactations, so way more heifers coming through as replacements and much more scope to ramp up and down production, unlike here in Ireland, when you aren't going to cull a cow that would otherwise last 6/8 lactations.

Hopefully long term it will mean a better market for replacement dairy heifers, as manjou said, the problem now is the dairyfarmer tries to bred from the most of his cows, as 1/2 will be bulls, he will then rear all the heifers, and flog on the late calvers/lower yeilding ones probably at a loss (going rate now is 1200quid, costs well more to actually rear her). Hopefully moving forward the most of these poor preformers will be bred out of the herds. The only thing saving the replacement heifer market at the minute is a decent export trade to the UK.

mahoney_j

Whilst sexed semen is going to be a huge step forward for our dairy herd the thing I'd ask where will the next batch of elite bulls come from if most herds only use sexed female straws.i don't see myself using any as at the moment bull choice is a bit limited and costly.for the past few years I've put about 90% of my cows and heifers in calf to is freisan and am getting anything from 45 to 65% heifers to bulls and post 2015 this will leave me ok for expansion and a small surplus.i also sell freisan bulls off farm as stock bulls and this leaves a bigger margin than taking them to year and a half a.i have a pbr herd with high ebi and when selling bulls ,heifers etc there is a. Premium for that type of stock

Timmaay

Interesting question Mahoney, however I'd hazard a guess that the pool of elite bulls are from quite a small number of farms (likes of Stan with both FLT/JKF), these farmers will still keep on using traditional semen, or hmm, what about the other way, why not used male sexed semen on say your best cows, if you know that a bull from her will be worth more than a heifer.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Interesting question Mahoney, however I'd hazard a guess that the pool of elite bulls are from quite a small number of farms (likes of Stan with both FLT/JKF), these farmers will still keep on using traditional semen, or hmm, what about the other way, why not used male sexed semen on say your best cows, if you know that a bull from her will be worth more than a heifer.

Yep your proably on to something there Tim,there will still need to be a diverse selection of bulls with a wide pool of bloodlines so I think that elite bulls will still come from a wide range of farms.did U have any of ur bull calves tested this year by the way??i had 8 and none made the grade even though they had ebi of between 240 and 306.theyvwill be sold as sbulls next spring though.as for going the other way ,well my feelings on that are well known and I'll leave it at that.......c'mon de Laval come correct me!!!!!!

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yep your proably on to something there Tim,there will still need to be a diverse selection of bulls with a wide pool of bloodlines so I think that elite bulls will still come from a wide range of farms.did U have any of ur bull calves tested this year by the way??i had 8 and none made the grade even though they had ebi of between 240 and 306.theyvwill be sold as sbulls next spring though.as for going the other way ,well my feelings on that are well known and I'll leave it at that.......c'mon de Laval come correct me!!!!!!

I hope you're sitting down but I totally agree with both you and Timmy. Your point about Ai Sires is a really valid one. The likes of me and all other commercial farmers really need the breeders to keep the conveyor af sires on track.

My plan for next few years is to sevre all heifers and cows that would normally be ai'd with sexed semen. I have a few plans in the works that if they materialise will require a lot of heifers.

If male sexed was available, would you use on some cows wirth a view to breed elite sires?

In the future I would be serving all feb calvers to female sexed and all other cows to Lim ai. The costs of rearing heifers is massive and I only want to have the cost on the most fertile and best heifers I can breed.

delaval

Milked out wrote: »

Do you get in the AI man for all servings or do you or one of your staff carry out any of the AI sexed or conventional , just asking as I hope to use sexed semen on my autumn heifers and possibly any fertile cow which calved with no problems early in the season. I carry out DIY AI, about 160 animals a year, here normally and wondering should I leave it to the lads at it every day

We do all the ai ourselves. I feel that we get as good a rate as any arm service. Both me and herdsman do ai but he would spend from milking to lunch at ai in breeding season, that would give him time to concentrate and travel to heifers. I will muck in if a lot of cows or heifers are on. During first 6 weeks he'd do little other than ai and milk in the morning.

For the trial we had to use an arm service.

Timmaay

What did the 306 lad come out after he was tested? Do you know why he was rejected? But nay, none tested here, max EBI around the 220mark, most wintermilk herds would have lower EBIs, and we all use to be much less rigorous about breeding out poor fertility. Will be afew years before I'm up at your level ha, but I'd hope sexed semen will allow me to rapid evolve my herd. I have about 25% of the herd who have very good survivability and I'll sex all of them next year, the last 2/3years we have been largely just trying to breed from the whole herd, I now see the big downside to that, with some heifers taking 3/4 serves to get incalf, and end up calving down out of season, at 30/36months old.

Brown Podzol

Will it happen that the AI co.s won't sex the best bulls as they will sell anyway?

Are all bulls suitable for sexing?

Timmaay

I think sexing wastes alot of semen, so very popular, or poor preforming bulls are less lightly to be sexed. In fairness to PG, they have alot of bulls sexed now, large number of sires with ebis of 270+ on the active list now as well, so there are alot of "best bulls" anyways. I can't see the likes of one bull like Oman ever having the same influence on the market again, as we have so much choice now.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

What did the 306 lad come out after he was tested? Do you know why he was rejected? But nay, none tested here, max EBI around the 220mark, most wintermilk herds would have lower EBIs, and we all use to be much less rigorous about breeding out poor fertility. Will be afew years before I'm up at your level ha, but I'd hope sexed semen will allow me to rapid evolve my herd. I have about 25% of the herd who have very good survivability and I'll sex all of them next year, the last 2/3years we have been largely just trying to breed from the whole herd, I now see the big downside to that, with some heifers taking 3/4 serves to get incalf, and end up calving down out of season, at 30/36months old.

I think she was a hmy bull calf out of a hairy Breiz cow.reason for rejection was low milk which surprised me as the cow is a fifth lactation constantly doin between 8500 plus kg of milk. And goes in calf with no more than 2 serves.as regards getting to my level from your posts I think your well on the way but I wouldn't claim to have in any way an elite herd but it's a herd I'm now very happy with and has took maby 5 or 6 years of highish ebi genetics to get where I am.stick with what ur doing high ebi,high fertility,milk solids Holstein bulls ,oh and don't go the other way,you know what I mean!!!.there is a huge choice of high ebi freisan to choose from now.
If using sexed,start ai 3 weeks earlier just in case there is a large amount of repeats and only use on your strongest heifers and cows with high fertility indexes .

stanflt

there will always be elite bulls coming thru= every year as genetics improve more and more potential bull mothers become available

the way i see things going most bulls wont be sexed until a calving survey is available which means that as it is at the minute those who use the extreme high ebi new bulls will continue to be those who produce bulls for ai


had a bull collected for ai this morning-an ABO son fowlerstown view for anyone that wanted to look him up

heard of a bull coming thru with ebi 340+ and 42kg of milk solids

keep going

Timmaay wrote: »

Sexed semen in Ireland will have absolutely zero bearing on the milk prices! We only supply a drop in the ocean in comparison to other countries (especially the USA). The big HOs over there only last 2 or 3 lactations, so way more heifers coming through as replacements and much more scope to ramp up and down production, unlike here in Ireland, when you aren't going to cull a cow that would otherwise last 6/8 lactations.

Hopefully long term it will mean a better market for replacement dairy heifers, as manjou said, the problem now is the dairyfarmer tries to bred from the most of his cows, as 1/2 will be bulls, he will then rear all the heifers, and flog on the late calvers/lower yeilding ones probably at a loss (going rate now is 1200quid, costs well more to actually rear her). Hopefully moving forward the most of these poor preformers will be bred out of the herds. The only thing saving the replacement heifer market at the minute is a decent export trade to the UK.

Yeah but ireland isnt goingvto be on its own adopt ing sexing technology so its worldwide potential is huge.think about it , a farmer could double their herd in 2 to 3 years whereas here in ireland we only seem to think of it in terms of using beef bulls to mop up

stanflt

ok so i had 4 cows that cavled late april/early may that were empty and i was going to get rid of them but i said id try sexed semen as a bit of a trial


served 4
2repeat
1 gone 33 days and was scanned incalf today

the two that repeated got unsexed the second time-if they dont hold there burgers


gonna try sexed on all milking cows for first two natural services then same bull unsexed

any cow thats not a natural heat- unsexed

Timmaay

Them empties not exactly the sorta cow you shouldn't be giving sexed to ha? Or did you only push them around as they were late calved anyways and hadn't been served before?

stanflt

Timmaay wrote: »

Them empties not exactly the sorta cow you shouldn't be giving sexed to ha? Or did you only push them around as they were late calved anyways and hadn't been served before?

have been hearing this and that from every different sales man
dont do this that etc

these 4 have an avg ebi of 135 and were in perfect bcs so why not

wasnt going to serve them but said to myself what have i got to lose

Milked out

stanflt wrote: »

ok so i had 4 cows that cavled late april/early may that were empty and i was going to get rid of them but i said id try sexed semen as a bit of a trial


served 4
2repeat
1 gone 33 days and was scanned incalf today

the two that repeated got unsexed the second time-if they dont hold there burgers


gonna try sexed on all milking cows for first two natural services then same bull unsexed

any cow thats not a natural heat- unsexed

Are you worried your calving dates may slip if using sexed on all cows for 2 services if the sexed semen have lower conception rates?? or are are/have you started breeding earlier to compensate

TITANIUM.

stanflt wrote: »

ok so i had 4 cows that cavled late april/early may that were empty and i was going to get rid of them but i said id try sexed semen as a bit of a trial


served 4
2repeat
1 gone 33 days and was scanned incalf today

the two that repeated got unsexed the second time-if they dont hold there burgers


gonna try sexed on all milking cows for first two natural services then same bull unsexed

any cow thats not a natural heat- unsexed

Oh Jesus best of luck to you.
I hope you're factoring in the repeats cause you'll have um! Lots of um.
Hope it goes well for you anyway. ..

bogman_bass

Timmaay wrote: »

I think sexing wastes alot of semen, so very popular, or poor preforming bulls are less lightly to be sexed. In fairness to PG, they have alot of bulls sexed now, large number of sires with ebis of 270+ on the active list now as well, so there are alot of "best bulls" anyways. I can't see the likes of one bull like Oman ever having the same influence on the market again, as we have so much choice now.

on the money there Tim.

You get about 1/3 - 1/2 the number of straws you would get with conventional semen.
The top bulls are going to sell out anyways and if they were sexed you would only end up annoying a lot of lads