Rules of Golf.

Seve OB

Ah the rules.... always a tricky subject. I certainly don't know them all but consider myself to be pretty good having being brought up through the junior ranks with my old man in my ear the whole time.

So last week I played in a matchplay competition in the God awful weather on Saturday and was lucky enough to win and qualify for Sundays round. One might say the weather was a bit better on Sunday, but there was a serious wind out there. My opponent was a 9 handicapper experienced golfer who plays on club teams, i'm off 13.

So I'm 1 down on the third green looking good for the win to bring it back to all square. Line my putt up, feeling confident of the line as had a similar putt the day before, address the ball, then the wind comes, ball starts to oscilate, I lift up my putter in the air and the ball blows back down the green in the wind.

I was convinced there was a new rule brought in last year (I seem to remember something similar happen to Harrington in the British Open a few years back) to say that if the ball moves after address due to the wind, there is no penalty. My opponent who remember is a much more experienced player than me, holds firm that because I have addressed the ball, it was a penalty stroke, made me replace the ball and I proceded to take 3 putts for a half!!!!!!

The worse thing was, I was afraid to ground the club for the rest of the round and rushed a good few putts and certainly cost myself a couple of holes as a result. I lost. I'm not bitter or anything, I probably would not have won anyway, I played crap, but I am peeved at the way he held firm on an old obsolete rule especially as he should know better.

I do have a question though regarding the new exception to rule 18-2b. So I should have played from the new position with no penalty from what I read. But I had already marked and replaced my ball, so would there be a case for arguing that it should be played from the original position? As it happened, the new position would have been a much tougher putt, but the ball could have as easily blown the other way towards the hole, and even into it, so surely that would have been unfair to my oposition.

Or should I have lost the hole because I broke the rule by playing from the original postion and not the new position :P

Ilik Urgee

Webb Simpson had the same issue at the RBC Heritage last Sunday.
Great rule change imo, only thing was if he hadn't lifted his putter and the ball struck the clubface it would've been a two shot penalty.

Seve OB

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Webb Simpson had the same issue at the RBC Heritage last Sunday.
Great rule change imo, only thing was if he hadn't lifted his putter and the ball struck the clubface it would've been a two shot penalty.

thanks for that, a nice reference for when i point out the rule change to him, but i think it would have only been a 1 shot penalty

Ilik Urgee

Is that under 19-2? My mistake.
Had an occasion where I hit my own golf bag once only to be told it was a 2 shot penalty. Has the ruling changed or was I wrong?

Seve OB

Rule spelled out @ 4:00

Harrington @ 4:37

Daithio12

stevieob wrote: »

Ah the rules.... always a tricky subject. I certainly don't know them all but consider myself to be pretty good having being brought up through the junior ranks with my old man in my ear the whole time.

So last week I played in a matchplay competition in the God awful weather on Saturday and was lucky enough to win and qualify for Sundays round. One might say the weather was a bit better on Sunday, but there was a serious wind out there. My opponent was a 9 handicapper experienced golfer who plays on club teams, i'm off 13.

So I'm 1 down on the third green looking good for the win to bring it back to all square. Line my putt up, feeling confident of the line as had a similar putt the day before, address the ball, then the wind comes, ball starts to oscilate, I lift up my putter in the air and the ball blows back down the green in the wind.

I was convinced there was a new rule brought in last year (I seem to remember something similar happen to Harrington in the British Open a few years back) to say that if the ball moves after address due to the wind, there is no penalty. My opponent who remember is a much more experienced player than me, holds firm that because I have addressed the ball, it was a penalty stroke, made me replace the ball and I proceded to take 3 putts for a half!!!!!!

The worse thing was, I was afraid to ground the club for the rest of the round and rushed a good few putts and certainly cost myself a couple of holes as a result. I lost. I'm not bitter or anything, I probably would not have won anyway, I played crap, but I am peeved at the way he held firm on an old obsolete rule especially as he should know better.

I do have a question though regarding the new exception to rule 18-2b. So I should have played from the new position with no penalty from what I read. But I had already marked and replaced my ball, so would there be a case for arguing that it should be played from the original position? As it happened, the new position would have been a much tougher putt, but the ball could have as easily blown the other way towards the hole, and even into it, so surely that would have been unfair to my oposition.

Or should I have lost the hole because I broke the rule by playing from the original postion and not the new position :P

Firstly where was your rule book?, and secondly "older" or "better" and more "experienced" doesn't automatically mean he's right.
Matchplay is a different beast, if like you said you knew the rule had been changed then you should have stood your ground and looked up the rule and called for a ruling if necessary/possible.

Seve OB

Daithio12 wrote: »

Firstly where was your rule book?, and secondly "older" or "better" and more "experienced" doesn't automatically mean he's right.
Matchplay is a different beast, if like you said you knew the rule had been changed then you should have stood your ground and looked up the rule and called for a ruling if necessary/possible.

points taken. I never got a new rule book last year, never even seen them round the club at all, I'm still living with the old one in my bag

Seve OB

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Is that under 19-2? My mistake.
Had an occasion where I hit my own golf bag once only to be told it was a 2 shot penalty. Has the ruling changed or was I wrong?

not sure, Faldo says in the commentary it would be a penalty stroke, so i presumed he just meant 1! 2 would surely be unfair and defasting the purpose of the rule change

Ilik Urgee

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Amateur-Status.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=19&subRuleNum=2

Here's where I'm looking at, which says one,in stroke play.

No penalty in matchplay by the same rule:eek:

For Paws

OP, even if your opponent disputed the rule, under Rule 18-2 you should not have replaced your ball at it's original position . The best option, failing having a ruling at that point, was to putt out and inform your opponent that you would be seeking a ruling before signing your score card.
(That way, the worst that could happen was that you lost the hole, and every other outcome would be to your benefit).

Did your opponent offer to show you his copy of the Rules to establish his claim ?

Do you believe that his opinion was genuinely held, or that he was taking advantage of your uncertainty ?

Always carry the most recently published Rules. Becoming involved in this kind of dispute, particularly in match play, is very distracting.

Seve OB

For Paws wrote: »

OP, even if your opponent disputed the rule, you had proceeded correctly under Rule 18-2 by replacing your ball at it's original position. The best option, failing having a ruling at that point, was to putt out and inform your opponent that you would be seeking a ruling before signing your score card.
(That way, the worst that could happen was that you lost the hole, and every other outcome would be to your benefit).

Did your opponent offer to show you his copy of the Rules to establish his claim ?

Do you believe that his opinion was genuinely held, or that he was taking advantage of your uncertainty ?

Always carry the most recently published Rules. Becoming involved in this kind of dispute, particularly in match play, is very distracting.

Was I right though to replace the ball. Look at the video of Webb Simpson above who clearly plays the ball from where the wind blew it. It is confusing reading 18-2, because this states the ball should be replaced.....

To answer your questions, no he did not offer rule book, he pretty much just stated that it was penalty and that was final. I think he was genuine (after all, up till 15 months ago, that was the rule) but I don't know the chap at all, so he could have being playing cute beggars. He did say he was happy the hole was halved and he didn't win.

It would have been well and good disputing that hole afterwards on a normal day but as it was matchplay, it is not as easy to do. We could have been playing extra holes because I thought I was still in the game and he may have thought he had already won!

Also, it definately affected my putting for the rest of the day as I previously mentioned and probably caused me another 2 or 3 holes (losses that could have been halved, or halves that could have been won) by virtue of rushed putts and being afraid to ground my club (as Harrington points out above).

I think the best solution is to get myself a new rule book

mike12

Hi,
Correct me if i'm wrong but in match play i think once the hole is finished that's it no getting a ruling afterwards it has to be done then.
You need the rule book for matchplays and usually it is loss of hole rather than a shot penalty.

Mike

Dr_Colossus

The above happened in the West of Ireland this year where the wind blew a previously marked and replaced ball off the green and into a bunker while it was being lined up. As far as I'm aware the ball wasn't replaced and played from the bunker and the hole although looking like a certain win initially, resulted in a half due to the wind.
Webb Simpson didn't replace the ball in the above video and don't see the reasoning for not replacing the ball. After all if another ball struck yours and moved it you'd replace that as close to the previous spot without knowing it's exact spot so don't see why the same can't be done for balls blown off the green and into a bunker, very unfair.

Daithio12

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

The above happened in the West of Ireland this year where the wind blew a previously marked and replaced ball off the green and into a bunker while it was being lined up. As far as I'm aware the ball wasn't replaced and played from the bunker and the hole although looking like a certain win initially, resulted in a half due to the wind.
Webb Simpson didn't replace the ball in the above video and don't see the reasoning for not replacing the ball. After all if another ball struck yours and moved it you'd replace that as close to the previous spot without knowing it's exact spot so don't see why the same can't be done for balls blown off the green and into a bunker, very unfair.

Was the ball in the "West" still marked after the ball was replaced, if so then I'm almost certain it could have been replaced, once you take the marker away then the ball is "in play", so if there was a strong wind then it was a schoolboy error not to leave the marker in place while lining up the putt.

SnowDrifts

stevieob wrote: »

Was I right though to replace the ball.

No. Rule 18 (2)b only applies if the player is deemed to have caused the ball to move.

"Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause his
ball to move, Rule 18-2b does not apply."

So if you know you did not cause your ball to move, then you play the ball from it's new position and do not replace it. A very fair recent addition to the rules IMO.

Of course, you do get ridiculous extremes, but they are thankfully rare. There was one tournament last year where a gust of wind turned a plus 20ft putt into a sub 10ft putt. And before play was suspended at the start of this year in Maui, you had balls being blown off greens and players bringing their putters back to their bags to get a wedge.

curly from cork

You don' t replace your ball if the wind moved it .. Tough cheese if you end up off the green and great luck if it blows into the hole . As to whether the ball marker is there or not also doesn't matter, once the ball is on the green it's in play.

For Paws

SnowDrifts wrote: »

No. Rule 18 (2)b only applies if the player is deemed to have caused the ball to move.

"Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause his
ball to move, Rule 18-2b does not apply."

So if you know you did not cause your ball to move, then you play the ball from it's new position and do not replace it. A very fair recent addition to the rules IMO.

OP, my apologies. Snowdrifts has got it spot on here.