milking parlour

Daniel1122

hi I am going into dairying. I am looking at putting in a 12
unit milking machine. Any advice, At the moment I am looking at a simple no frills parlour adjustable breast rail and flat trough and ids batch feeders. I have been told to keep away from dairymaster there servicing is expenses and parts ware and break regularly. Has anyone used or heard of dairypower milking machines, they are based in cork. If anyone has has suggestions please let me know.
Thanks

loveta

Well i have a dairy master milking machine and one of the scrapers is dairy power.The parlour is in 11 years now and other than a milk pump no problems the parlour is actually serviced by a non dairy master tec with no problems there either.You say your going for a non frills outfit other than the id feeders so there should not be to much to go wrong what ever brand of plant you go for.

bbam

In fairness Dairymaster would be the second rated machine behind Alfa.

They are both well ahead of the others.
I'd rate the Alfa service and support network well ahead of anything else, but I would. I serviced for them for a good few years.

loveta

A guy beside me put in a 24 unit alfa parlour a couple of years ago top spec serious looking outfit but has "and still is" breaking his heart constant problems he told me he would never put one of them in if he was doing it again nor would he recommend one. I know this is just one guys experience but the point iam making is they all can give bother, its your after sales service is the most important IMHO ..

Viewtodiefor

loveta wrote: »

A guy beside me put in a 24 unit alfa parlour a couple of years ago top spec serious looking outfit but has "and still is" breaking his heart constant problems he told me he would never put one of them in if he was doing it again nor would he recommend one. I know this is just one guys . experience but the point iam making is they all can give bother, its your after sales service is the most important IMHO ..

I have to second that Alfa are not all they are cracked up to be. What part of the country u in op? What's near you service wise ?

PMU

what kind of problems

td5man

bbam wrote: »

In fairness Dairymaster would be the second rated machine behind Alfa.

They are both well ahead of the others.
I'd rate the Alfa service and support network well ahead of anything else, but I would. I serviced for them for a good few years.

Dairymaster here and no problems with it.

loveta

PMU wrote: »

what kind of problems

Auto ID, not picking up all the cows "anti-bio milk in the tank"
Auto Wash, not doing what its suppose to do "burned out milk pump"S" AND high T.B.C,s
Feeders, not exactly sure on what the problem was with them but there was something
Not what he was hoping after spending 1-150k on the plant alone :eek:

delaval

We have Delaval and Pearson no problems with either. Lots of Dairymaster round here also. The more gadgets the more bother. Milking machines are really simple technology vacuum and a pulse not much to go wrong really. I don't see the need for all the bells and whistles. My motto is as much milk out the gate with the least fuss and expense as possible. No need for frills unless your fully developed and doing all milking yourself and all you are doing is making life a little easier for a lot of cost

mahoney_j

bbam wrote: »

In fairness Dairymaster would be the second rated machine behind Alfa.

They are both well ahead of the others.
I'd rate the Alfa service and support network well ahead of anything else, but I would. I serviced for them for a good few years.

Dairymaster and alfa are not in the same league as westfalia(gea) r fullwood.Dairymaster parlours are full of plastic and lots of issues with cellcount etc due to 4 x 0 pullsation.Only advantage is that if u want a parlour off them you could order it on monday and have it thursday or friday.Spent 6 months looking at various different parlours and always ame down to westfallia and fullwood,westfallia eventually won out.
If u want a no frills parlour have a look at milfos,but stay well clear of dairymster

td5man

delaval wrote: »

We have Delaval and Pearson no problems with either. Lots of Dairymaster round here also. The more gadgets the more bother. Milking machines are really simple technology vacuum and a pulse not much to go wrong really. I don't see the need for all the bells and whistles. My motto is as much milk out the gate with the least fuss and expense as possible. No need for frills unless your fully developed and doing all milking yourself and all you are doing is making life a little easier for a lot of cost

We have jars and thats as hi-tec as it gets

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Dairymaster and alfa are not in the same league as westfalia(gea) r fullwood.Dairymaster parlours are full of plastic and lots of issues with cellcount etc due to 4 x 0 pullsation.Only advantage is that if u want a parlour off them you could order it on monday and have it thursday or friday.Spent 6 months looking at various different parlours and always ame down to westfallia and fullwood,westfallia eventually won out.
If u want a no frills parlour have a look at milfos,but stay well clear of dairymster

I knew you would arrive only one frilly man left and that's freedom.......he'll be here shortly. Are there many milfos installed. To be honest I deal with whom ever is the nearest dealer.

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

We have Delaval and Pearson no problems with either. Lots of Dairymaster round here also. The more gadgets the more bother. Milking machines are really simple technology vacuum and a pulse not much to go wrong really. I don't see the need for all the bells and whistles. My motto is as much milk out the gate with the least fuss and expense as possible. No need for frills unless your fully developed and doing all milking yourself and all you are doing is making life a little easier for a lot of cost

Aghh now delaval!!!on bells and whistels all depends on ur system.With higher yielding cows you need a good feed to yield system,Variable speed vaccume also a must,On a big herd you need good drafting faciliyies if ai cows.I think over the next few years lads are going to go back to less cows and more yields as conditions and weather patterns over the last 2 years are making high stocking rate systems extremely vunerable.It was brought up in discussion at our last group meeting and the general consensus from everyone was that this what will happen,High stock rate systems need a very good grassland manager and also favourable weather conditions through the year something which we are not getting

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Aghh now delaval!!!on bells and whistels all depends on ur system.With higher yielding cows you need a good feed to yield system,Variable speed vaccume also a must,On a big herd you need good drafting faciliyies if ai cows.I think over the next few years lads are going to go back to less cows and more yields as conditions and weather patterns over the last 2 years are making high stocking rate systems extremely vunerable.It was brought up in discussion at our last group meeting and the general consensus from everyone was that this what will happen,High stock rate systems need a very good grassland manager and also favourable weather conditions through the year something which we are not getting

Couldn't agree more 3.2 Li/ha max. Nothing wrong with being a good grass manager. I notice that the good grass managers are not having the same trouble as others at the moment despite probably being more heavily stocked. I don't know if this is bourne out nationwide but around these parts anyway

Viewtodiefor

delaval wrote: »

We have Delaval and Pearson no problems with either. Lots of Dairymaster round here also. The more gadgets the more bother. Milking machines are really simple technology vacuum and a pulse not much to go wrong really. I don't see the need for all the bells and whistles. My motto is as much milk out the gate with the least fuss and expense as possible. No need for frills unless your fully developed and doing all milking yourself and all you are doing is making life a little easier for a lot of cost

I think with new parlour you should be looking at the quality of equipment and how sturdy it is lots of plastic does not bode well. The key to milking cows is
1. good constant vacuum ( very good vacuum reserve)
2. Good pulsation system with a high airflow and efficient relay which opens and closes the liner correctly.
3. Reliable milk pump

Anything else does nothing to milk your cows it is purely for operator comfort etc.
I would say separate feed troughs would be a good idea as your cows will be more content and more easily handled in the parlour. Anyone got any thoughts on this?

Daniel1122

who are milfos and has anyone heard about dairypower in cork

delaval

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

I think with new parlour you should be looking at the quality of equipment and how sturdy it is lots of plastic does not bode well. The key to milking cows is
1. good constant vacuum ( very good vacuum reserve)
2. Good pulsation system with a high airflow and efficient relay which opens and closes the liner correctly.
3. Reliable milk pump

Anything else does nothing to milk your cows it is purely for operator comfort etc.
I would say separate feed troughs would be a good idea as your cows will be more content and more easily handled in the parlour. Anyone got any thoughts on this?

Perfect summation. We have no division in troughs and really don't see any advantage

Viewtodiefor

Daniel1122 wrote: »

who are milfos and has anyone heard about dairypower in cork

Yes they make good scrapers their machines are not ment to be the best from what I hear

Daniel1122

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

I have to second that Alfa are not all they are cracked up to be. What part of the country u in op? What's near you service wise ?

I am in kerry. I may source a good second hand machine

Timmaay

Ok I'm going off topic here, but not sure what to do about the parlour here myself at the minute either, Have fired in an application for the grant, because if your not in you can't win as such, but I'd be probably waiting the full 2 years before I'd use it. Anyways, have a very basic 6unit, which was a 5unit originally, built back in the 60s! As it stands now the 6unit is too short and narrow for some of the larger holstiens, with the result of often only having 5 per side. I could possibly add on 2 extra units out the back and put in steel troughs instead of the large concrete troughs which would allow more space, but problem with this is the exit for the cows is a very narrow 180 deg turn, with little scope to widen this out, even at the second getting the 6cows out can be hassle so 8 would mean more trouble.

Putting up a full new parlour probably makes since so, a basic no frills parlour certainly would be the order, maybe 10units, but its still going to be a shedload of money for maybe not a massive reduction in milkingtime, and possibly better off invested elsewhere on the farm.

kowtow

Timmaay wrote: »

As it stands now the 6unit is too short and narrow for some of the larger holstiens, with the result of often only having 5 per side. I could possibly add on 2 extra units out the back and put in steel troughs instead of the large concrete troughs which would allow more space, but problem with this is the exit for the cows is a very narrow 180 deg turn, with little scope to widen this out, even at the second getting the 6cows out can be hassle so 8 would mean more trouble.

We're in much the same position, planning to put an old small parlour (6 unit) back to work for a very small herd in 2015.

The parlour *feels* a bit small to me (for the Cows, the pit is generous enough) although the last man to use it milked some Holsteins until about 6 years ago.. like you I was thinking of taking out the big concrete troughs and replacing them with steel... worst case I thought I might narrow the pit a wee bit...

Or maybe milk smaller cows.

Viewtodiefor

kowtow wrote: »

We're in much the same position, planning to put an old small parlour (6 unit) back to work for a very small herd in 2015.

The parlour *feels* a bit small to me (for the Cows, the pit is generous enough) although the last man to use it milked some Holsteins until about 6 years ago.. like you I was thinking of taking out the big concrete troughs and replacing them with steel... worst case I thought I might narrow the pit a wee bit...

Or maybe milk smaller cows.

Are your existing concrete troughs straight edged or staggered?

Massey10

bbam wrote: »

In fairness Dairymaster would be the second rated machine behind Alfa.

They are both well ahead of the others.
I'd rate the Alfa service and support network well ahead of anything else, but I would. I serviced for them for a good few years.

I have an alfa good machine but the vaccum pump does take a new rotor every couple of years it starts to slip on its shaft and its does get plenty oil its over 500 to replace . If a spring in the switches goes when milking its also a pain .

PMU

how many cows do you milk now, and plan to milk Timmay

Timmaay

Will have about 75 once all the cows are calved in June, postquotas, at least 100, but not sure about rented land at the second which has me waiting also. I know down the line a new parlour will 100% have to go in, I just don't know to do it as soon as I can (ie within 2yrs), or do a cheap and cheerful extension on the old one to 8units, and wait and see how things plan out moving forward.

mf240

Timmaay wrote: »

Will have about 75 once all the cows are calved in June, postquotas, at least 100, but not sure about rented land at the second which has me waiting also. I know down the line a new parlour will 100% have to go in, I just don't know to do it as soon as I can (ie within 2yrs), or do a cheap and cheerful extension on the old one to 8units, and wait and see how things plan out moving forward.

Just my two cents tim.

If your young and intend sticking at the dairy game, build yourself a new palour.

Do it once and do it right. Straightforward 10/12 unit with room for a few more left. bright airy located where its handy in the yard.

mahoney_j

mf240 wrote: »

Just my two cents tim.

If your young and intend sticking at the dairy game, build yourself a new palour.

Do it once and do it right. Straightforward 10/12 unit with room for a few more left. bright airy located where its handy in the yard.

Ill second that,Built a new parlour last year and put a lot of thought into it.Im 33 milking 70 with potential to go to maby 100.Put in a westfallia 14 unit wit a heap of what delaval would call gadgets!! and havnt looked back since.Comfortably milking 72 at the moment and from cup on to cup off milking time is 35 minutes with another 10 to wash down parlour etc.Married with one child and as you can imagine i dont want milking to be a 3 or 4 hour job every day

delaval

Timmaay wrote: »

Will have about 75 once all the cows are calved in June, postquotas, at least 100, but not sure about rented land at the second which has me waiting also. I know down the line a new parlour will 100% have to go in, I just don't know to do it as soon as I can (ie within 2yrs), or do a cheap and cheerful extension on the old one to 8units, and wait and see how things plan out moving forward.

This might suit you Tim. I videoed this in Idaho last Summer

moy83

delaval wrote: »

This might suit you Tim. I videoed this in Idaho last Summer

You're some tease delaval :D

kowtow

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Are your existing concrete troughs straight edged or staggered?

They are staggered.

I'll try and upload a photo of the current set up when I get a moment.

delaval

moy83 wrote: »

You're some tease delaval :D

Mobile technology letting me down I will try tonight

delaval

Can video be posted?

moy83

I think so but I also have trouble with technology , so I havent a clue how to help , someone will be able to give you a few pointers though

TEAT SQUEEZER

mahoney_j wrote: »

Ill second that,Built a new parlour last year and put a lot of thought into it.Im 33 milking 70 with potential to go to maby 100.Put in a westfallia 14 unit wit a heap of what delaval would call gadgets!! and havnt looked back since.Comfortably milking 72 at the moment and from cup on to cup off milking time is 35 minutes with another 10 to wash down parlour etc.Married with one child and as you can imagine i dont want milking to be a 3 or 4 hour job every day

why did you choose westfalia .. have you ever milked in parlours of different makes.. frs in waterford have taken on the westfalia agency so they will be welcome competition locally

Timmaay

Ya have me curious now delaval! Hmm I think people usually upload the video to youtube then post the link here, is it on your iphone or android, or do you have it on a laptop? If its the android or iphone, try see if there is a share button, then share using youtube, and after it uploads to youtube just post up the youtube link on here! If its on the laptop, might be as handy just to email me it if you want and I can stick it on youtube myself for ya!

kowtow

//

kowtow

Not to hijack the thread, but this is the six unit that I am thinking of bringing back into use.

I measured the diagonal length from the wall behind the feed troughs to the breech bar, I make it 1.80m.. meanwhile the pit I think is 5ft across or about 1.40m.




Feels small inside to me but I wonder if it would be big enough for Holsteins if we changed the troughs around.

moy83

kowtow wrote: »

Not to hijack the thread, but this is the six unit that I am thinking of bringing back into use.

I measured the diagonal length from the wall behind the feed troughs to the breech bar, I make it 1.80m.. meanwhile the pit I think is 5ft across or about 1.40m.




Feels small inside to me but I wonder if it would be big enough for Holsteins if we changed the troughs around.

Good man kowtow , this is the kinda operation I would have in mind if I ever go back milking . Would a lad be long milking 40/50 cows in this sized parlour ?

mf240

Youd milk 42 cows an hour in that palour.

loveta

8-10 mins a row depending on what time of year your at and no slow milkers IMO..

moy83

Thats not bad . There are two parlours beside me just left empty , one of them I can take the lot for nothing and the better looking one wouldnt set me back much either I'd be hoping .
Would a lad be aswell to get someone with experience to strip them and fit it all again ?

kowtow

mf240 wrote: »

Youd milk 42 cows an hour in that palour.

That's good to know

We're likely to start at 18 and go to no more than 24 or 36, primarily for cheese.

Plans not set in stone yet, but having come from sheep (and that a long while ago) I'm beginning to enjoy the handful of mixed up dairy stock I bought with the place... so we'll see what happens.

Timmaay

Kowtow, that looks fairly similar to what we have at the second. It would milk 36 no problem at all, that's only 6 rows in total. I'm milking just over 60 at the min, or 10/11rows, 75mins in the morning and an hr in the evening from clusters on to clusters off (granted very few slow or freshly calved cows at the second which can certainly slow it down by 10/15mins), but anyways 36cows would be about 40-60mins.

One think I'll say is the pit looks fairly shallow, ours is the same and a pain in the ar£e, or hmm no pain in the back! You end up leaning over and squatting down too much to put the units on. Digging it deeper would be the 1st change I'd make!

You say your using the milk for cheese, are you just starting out with everything, or have you got the whole cheese end of things sorted? Milking just 18cows certainly isn't the most financially viable way of doing it, you still have all the chores every day of the week that the chap who milks 100 has. The other thing is how well can you match your supply and demand? A cows milk supply cannot be turned off, so what do you do with the milk if its not needed on the cheese side of things? I assume you have considered approaching a local dairyfarmer and get them to supply a fixed amount of milk, it would be a million times easier than having to milk and look after the 18 or 36 or whatever small number of cows. Just my opinion though, I don't know your situation fully.

kowtow

Timmaay wrote: »

Kowtow, that looks fairly similar to what we have at the second. It would milk 36 no problem at all, that's only 6 rows in total. I'm milking just over 60 at the min, or 10/11rows, 75mins in the morning and an hr in the evening from clusters on to clusters off (granted very few slow or freshly calved cows at the second which can certainly slow it down by 10/15mins), but anyways 36cows would be about 40-60mins.

One think I'll say is the pit looks fairly shallow, ours is the same and a pain in the ar£e, or hmm no pain in the back! You end up leaning over and squatting down too much to put the units on. Digging it deeper would be the 1st change I'd make!

You say your using the milk for cheese, are you just starting out with everything, or have you got the whole cheese end of things sorted? Milking just 18cows certainly isn't the most financially viable way of doing it, you still have all the chores every day of the week that the chap who milks 100 has. The other thing is how well can you match your supply and demand? A cows milk supply cannot be turned off, so what do you do with the milk if its not needed on the cheese side of things? I assume you have considered approaching a local dairyfarmer and get them to supply a fixed amount of milk, it would be a million times easier than having to milk and look after the 18 or 36 or whatever small number of cows. Just my opinion though, I don't know your situation fully.

I must measure the pit depth.. come to think of it it does feel a bit shallow compared to those of my neighbours.

Yes.... complicated situation, haven't really decided on the long term plan yet. This farm is limited in it's grazing platform (c. 20 acres around the yard) - and we're looking at the options for out farms locally and less locally.

We're trying to fit two agendas here.. my own (rather early) retirement and return to Ireland and a son who - as things stand - wants to farm full time when he leaves school. If he continues in this and applies himself we might well consider a larger platform in a couple of years. In the meantime we'll get started with something small and specialist here.

From a cheese point of view it does - of course - make sense to buy in milk. On the other hand for farmhouse cheese the milk production itself is part of the story. Surplus milk can be dealt with partly by the right maturity profile of cheese, possibly by yoghurt as well.

But it's early days, big learning curve. Gotta love a challenge!

toyotad4d

Daniel1122 wrote: »

hi I am going into dairying. I am looking at putting in a 12
unit milking machine. Any advice, At the moment I am looking at a simple no frills parlour adjustable breast rail and flat trough and ids batch feeders. I have been told to keep away from dairymaster there servicing is expenses and parts ware and break regularly. Has anyone used or heard of dairypower milking machines, they are based in cork. If anyone has has suggestions please let me know.
Thanks

Hi just wondering did you install the IDS batch feeders and if you did how are you gettn on with them any problems with them or anything was hoping to put em in but not sure whitch ones to get was thinking of crowley batch feeders aswel in cork the dairy master ones are 500 euro more than the crowley ones the crowley ones are 4500 plus VAT for an 8 unit any info wud be great Thanks

Brown Podzol

Timmaay wrote: »

Will have about 75 once all the cows are calved in June, postquotas, at least 100, but not sure about rented land at the second which has me waiting also. I know down the line a new parlour will 100% have to go in, I just don't know to do it as soon as I can (ie within 2yrs), or do a cheap and cheerful extension on the old one to 8units, and wait and see how things plan out moving forward.

Developed the yard here bit by bit, the parlour being one of the last to be modernised and sized. Teagasc man at the time said do the parlour first but I worked in cramped conditions and bucketed meal to cows for years.When the parlour was finished I realised I had been like a lunatic banging his head off the wall. For the intense relief he gets when he stops. My advice I'd do the parlour. Big enough, basic, extendable and be able to add the expensive bells and whistles later if you want. As for size,4 cows to ha is doable, feed can be brought from outside blocks.

Greengrass1

Im in a conundrum here too. We need to put in slurry storage and roadways parlour and bulk tank.
I think it would be better to put in slurry storage and roadways first and then parlour and new tank. But if I can't really expand without a bigger tank or buy another small one where I have no where to put. The father is mad to put in new parlour and tank but I'm not so sure. And I can't keep going the way I am with barely any slurry storage

Timmaay

Brown Podzol wrote: »

As for size,4 cows to ha is doable, feed can be brought from outside blocks.

Ah jezz ya have me up to 175 cows now :P, a new 10unit wont do anymore! But yeh the current parlour is unworkable, whatever about the fact that its only 6unit, its dimensions are just all wrong, too much leaning and stretching, and then cowflow is poor, so I'll be putting in a new parlour within a year or so.

Hugh 2

Put in Westfalia with acr's and milk meters 15+ years ago.
Great truouble free system (me happy)
Added simple batch feeder system and a few extra units 5 years ago (can't believe I spent so long feeding outdoars)(very happy)
2 years ago added GEA IQ units + cotswold backflush(now me very happy)
For me this IQ cluster is the best job ever --here is a short vid showing how it works (( basically milk from one quarter cannot infext a teat on another quarter and the unit even with bad milker does not make any gasping of air ...take a look...at animation))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPVKMtQ9rlI

delaval

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Im in a conundrum here too. We need to put in slurry storage and roadways parlour and bulk tank.
I think it would be better to put in slurry storage and roadways first and then parlour and new tank. But if I can't really expand without a bigger tank or buy another small one where I have no where to put. The father is mad to put in new parlour and tank but I'm not so sure. And I can't keep going the way I am with barely any slurry storage

First priority is to become compliant so I'd say slurry storage