Company of Heroes 2

TerrorFirmer

Is anyone playing the beta? I'm enjoying it, but to be honest after over six years since the original, I was expecting a little more. The graphics are better, but not hugely so, and the gameplay is virtually identical. It is good - and I will be buying it as more of the same isn't always a bad thing - but so far it just feels like a mod more than a fully fledged sequel 6 years later and I'm a little disappointed in that!

Falthyron

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Is anyone playing the beta? I'm enjoying it, but to be honest after over six years since the original, I was expecting a little more. The graphics are better, but not hugely so, and the gameplay is virtually identical. It is good - and I will be buying it as more of the same isn't always a bad thing - but so far it just feels like a mod more than a fully fledged sequel 6 years later and I'm a little disappointed in that!

Very difficult to improve on a game that is the highest rated RTS of all time. I am glad they have managed to retain the essence of the original while adding some changes.

I have pre-ordered my copy and if the single player campaign is as polished as multi-player feels two months before release, I think Relic are on to another all time classic.

After Tiberium Wars (CnC3), which was actually not a bad game, CnC4 was a total disaster so you should use that as a case study when it comes to RTS sequels. That's why I am happy with COH2, more than happy. It's a solid game and I really can't wait for the full release.

Having said that, Relic do need to adjust the UI in COH2... :P

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Falthyron wrote: »

Very difficult to improve on a game that is the highest rated RTS of all time.

broodwar?

Falthyron

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

broodwar?

Expansion pack, but a good example though. But that reminds me of Starcraft II; a game which experiences little to no changes apart from a new graphics engine.

Azza

There is quite a few differences.

First is commanders replacing doctrines. There are more commanders to choose from than there was doctrines although some require unlocking. Commanders only have 5 abilities compared to 6 abilities doctrines had in the original COH. There is also a linear progression of abilities unlocks during a battle. As opposed to distinct trees you could choose from in the original game. Commanders do play a less important roles than doctrines did.

Bulletins have been added. They work similar to the perk system in Call of Duty. Custom skins for units as well work the same way.

Population cap is always max now and does not depend on territory controlled.

You no longer build observation posts on munition and fuel points. Instead you build fuel or munitions caches on standard capture points.

Capture points are now zones. You now simply have to be inside them to capture them as opposed to manually clicking on the flag. This allows weapons team to capture points and use there weapons at the same time. It also prevents opponents micro-ing vehicles to constantly disrupt capturing of points. It also means you prevent caping by simply moving into the cap zone before your opponent can complete the cap.

Coldtech. Weather effects the battle, stay out in the cold too long and your units freeze to death unless you move them to a heat source or into cover. Heavy snow slows unit movement and exposes your men to more damage, but it does present some camouflage opportunities. You can follow footprints in the snow to track the enemy, Ice can be shattered as units cross over. Blizzards cover over tracks and refreeze rivers. They also prevent off map artillery and aircraft being used as well as reducing range of sight.

True sight. You can't see behind anything over head height. Allows for better ambushes.

Vaulting, you can now climb over waist high cover rather than having to go around.

Building provide more protection than in the original game.

Snipers are less effective against buildings.

Fires can spread from one part of building to another over time.

Veterancy for both sides is gained through combat and to a lesser extent through taking losses.

Teching up is quicker.

Target tables have been removed. Damage is uniform across the board. Meaning a unit will do the same amount of damage to every unit. A simplification to make balancing easier.

Target priority has been improved. No longer do certain units do daft things like switching to target a motorbike when there one shot away from killing a tiger tank. Moving your units no longer causes there target priority to change unless you manually order them to change/

Grenades are harder to avoid in general.

Upkeep cost is more severe.

Dermighty

I'd add that vehicles are now almost essential to any victory strategy. More importantly combined arms is essential. Thankfully the days of ten squads of *insert unit name* raping everything in sight are gone.

Mortars are very powerful.

Light vehicles are useful throughout the battle as opposed to just early on.

Flame weapons are very powerful.

Off map artillery is less effective (I feel it is), which is great.

Sabre Man

I've been playing it since the alpha. They will also release missions, which can be played with a friend, and other stuff after launch.

Not too keen on some of the maps. Hopefully they will add more and better maps later.

KonFusion

For 'the highest rated RTS of all time', there seems to be very little commotion about it (and very little discussion on here about it). Or maybe I'm just not in tune.

Are they introducing region specific matchmaking (a la DOTA2 etc). It's a huge pain in the ass playing with someone who doesn't speak english.

Also is it just me, or is it ridiculously easy to spam cheap troops at game start as the russians, and just dominate the battlefield? (normally resulting in the other team surrendering as they've been too slow to adapt).

degrassinoel

there's big thread on it over in the strategy forums

yonder

IrishGrimReaper

I like the game, but I don't like the interface, not sure how to describe it. It feels clunky to me.

Azza

Yeah its kinda of frustrating seeing how little attention this game gets.

The original COH was the best RTS every made imo and it the highest rated RTS on Game Rankings and joint highest rated on Metacritic.

It got nominated for countless game of year awards back in 2006 but being an RTS had no chance of winning them.

I've played alot of the Company of Heroes 2 beta. Its a good game but not quite up to the stand of the original. A case of 2 steps forwards 3 steps back. But at its core its still a good game.

SeantheMan

Worth forking full price for ? I want the game, but I have the original and all expansions, your review (seen you on it all the time on STEAM) would suggest to leave it till maybe it's patched and released in full ?

Azza

G2play have it for €29.99. Its easily worth that much. All though you won't get the pre-order bonuses.

For me it will easily be my most played game this year.

I'll elaborate more.

Single player wise I haven't played anything other than the demo mission in the beta, but judging from early review the single player campaign is solid but not great. Missions are hit and miss with a few really good ones, most are average enough. The problem is that most missions can be overcome by sheer numbers, which is kinda of historically accurate for the Russian side but not a particular interesting strategy in terms of game play. Other tactics can be employed but why go to the effort of being clever when mindless spam will work.

A.I in the campaign isn't mean't to be too great. Path finding is an issue with vehicles clustered together in both single player and multiplayer.

Story wise I hear it fails a bit. In engine cut scenes are clunky (pc gamer said the cut scenes where like they where made during the actual war!)and the story is riddled with cliches. It mentions frequently the horrors of the Eastern front in the cut scenes and then you go and carry them out in game. A lot of reviews felt it wasted potential considering how epic the scale of carnage was on the eastern front with the Germans sustaining 85% of there casualties on that front and the Russians loosing in the region of 25 million people, not to count the millions of animals that died and the sheer cost of the war. I'm sort of familiar with the conflict, its crazy to think some of the battles on the eastern front absolutely dwarf what was happening in the west yet there pretty much unheard of over here.

The theater of war mini campaign missions are getting good reviews. Theatre of War is DLC but comes free if you pre-oder I think the missions can be done in co-op.

Multiplayer is what truly matters. It has problems. Most of them are fixable in time.
The Russians are currently overpowered. But this is still in beta so I'm not going criticize them on that till after release.
The maps are bad.
The maps are too big for 1v1.
The commanders are not as good as the doctrines where in COH 1. Doctrines where critical in COH 1. But in this game the commanders are not even a necessity, not picking one doesn't matter sometimes.
The German commanders are currently pretty poor.
Blizzards are annoying for the most part and don't add anything to the gameplay other than annoyance and slowing gameplay down.Maps with rivers are better for this weather. There is a purpose to it on those maps though.
There is no proper ranking system.
The early meta game of infantry battles has been shortend by a few minutes, which is overall bad thing.
The UI while improved from early beta is still poorer than COH 1.
Cover is less important in this game than in COH 1.

Some postives.
True sight despite a minor niggle is a pretty good addition.
Vaulting is another good albeit minor addition.
Capping zones rather than points is a good addtion.
Its still mostly COH at its core, and the core gameplay is still very good. Its not as good as the first game was in multiplayer (and that had problems at release too) but its fresher and these issues can be fixed.

Technically its a great game. Graphically it feels slightly improved over COH 1. The attention to detail in animations and audio is still fantastic.

In short. If you where big into the multiplayer, in time this game can be very good. But if your only interesting in single player you can probably pass. The series truly shines in multiplayer when you understand the mechanics and the difference between the factions.

Azza

Game is out in a few hours. Anyone interested in RTS games should pick it up.

If anyone is interested in getting into this game in multiplayer particularly in 1v1, I'll be glad to train them up, I'm quite experience with this series. RTS games can't be quite daunting to get into but this game is worth it.