9yr old, very bad sleeper

pennypitstop

My son is 9. I don't think he has slept a full night through in his life!
It is causing lots of problems obviously.

Does the usual delay tactics, hungry, needs a glass of water, a hot water bottle, up to the toilet etc at bed time but also seems to discover a spot on his tongue/ arm/ leg etc or he is itchy, he has mysterious pains here and there and the list goes on.

He is worried about robbers, monsters, fires, the recent bombs on the news etc
If I get into his bed with him, which I sometimes do just so he is not exhausted for school, he is asleep in a few minuits (and the problems no longer keep him awake!) he sleeps with a lamp on, the door open and the bathroom light on!


I'm at my wits end. Do sleep-doctors work? are they expensive? any other suggestions

Moonbeam

Do his siblings sleep?

pennypitstop

Moonbeam wrote: »

Do his siblings sleep?

His brother age 3 1/2 sleeps 10-12 hrs a night in his own room with door closed and light off. Might wake once in a blue moon but is very easy to settle back down. Only has bad nights when sick.

teggers5

I could have written that exact post! My son is 10 and is exactly like your boy. Right down to the excuses for not being able to sleep. Like you I've been lying in his bed with him til he falls asleep but its driving me crazy. And if that's not bad enough he always comes in to my bed during the night, every night without fail!
Im at my wits end, he's 10 ffs..
Hoping someone can advise us!

CrazyRabbit

Allay his fears. Show him that the house is secured against burglars. Perhaps install a smoke alarm/carbon monoxide alarm in his room and purchase a small fire extinguisher for under his bed. And remind him that while some bad things do happen in the world, they are very rare. The media only shows the bad stuff and rarely report on any of the good deeds people do.

Make sure he uses the toilet before bed, and leave a bottle of water beside him. Basically, remove as many of the excuses as possible.

After that, tell him he is expected to stay in bed and go to sleep within a reasonable time frame. If he can't do that, they he needs to give you a genuinely honest reason as to why not (there may be some other underlying fear).
If he does leave his bedroom, simply walk him back there without conversation or arguing. Give him no attention other than getting him back to bed. Be consistent and don't give in.

You may also want to reward him with extra attention for a few 'good' nights. Perhaps a special event, or family-based treat for him.

Leafonthewind

I'm in the same situation. My son is seven, and he’s never been a great sleeper. He was very nearly an only child because of it. He sleeps with a light on and there’s a bottle of water on his nightstand, as well as a bottle of lotion for those sudden bouts of itchiness. Until recently, we had to lie down with him until he fell asleep, but even then he’d still wake up several times during the night and call for us, and we’d have to lie down with him again for him to go back to sleep. Things had to change.

We started by having his sister sleep in his bed, thinking that would give him a sense of security, especially since he does have frequent nightmares and goes to bed worrying about having a bad dream. That worked for about a week. Then his sister, who had tolerated sleeping with the light on until then, decided she wanted to sleep in the dark like she usually does, and he started complaining that she kept going on his side of the bed and he started putting a pillow between them to prevent this intrusion, which left even less space for the two of them. So back to their own beds they went.

Then we addressed the nightmare issue. We got him a dreamcatcher and talked about what he can do on his own when he wakes up from a nightmare, like hugging his teddy, flipping his pillow over, thinking about his favourite book or game, changing the scenario so the nightmare becomes a funny dream, etc.

Bedtime was very chaotic, so we also set up a routine together so he would know what to expect in regards to us staying with him when it was time for him to go to sleep. We made a poster to make it official, indicating the approximate time each task would be performed on weeknights (bath/shower, brush teeth, books, lights out – except for the nightlight). It sounds very stringent, but my son isn’t very adaptable and he likes to know what to expect. We also told him that it was important for him to learn to fall asleep on his own, and that he needed to be able to settle back down if he woke up during the night, because we all need to sleep, and getting a good night’s sleep makes us all happier and calmer. So we struck a deal with him: we’d lie down with him for two minutes and rub his back or hold his hand to help him relax, and then we'd leave and he'd fall asleep on his own.

The two-minute thing isn’t a hard and fast rule. We often stay longer, maybe five minutes, so when we get up to leave and he checks the clock, he sees it as a bonus and settles down without too much fuss. But his anxieties and fears (fear of death is a big one) always seem to crop up at bedtime, and that’s when he feels comfortable talking about them. On those nights, we stay as long as it takes for him to get it all out and for us to address the issue. I’m not sure he’d talk about these things as openly if we didn’t have that time with him, and those moments have turned out to be very important and precious.

The changes didn't happen overnight, but things are better now. It’s about finding what works, and what works won’t necessarily work longer than a few weeks, so you have to be prepared to change your strategy. The trick is getting them to participate in coming up with the solutions and setting up a routine that will be acceptable for all parties, a compromise that responds to this need they have for us to stay with them but also gives us our evenings back and that elusive full night’s sleep. It feels like we're going to have to do this forever, but I’m pretty sure a fifteen-year-old won’t want his parents to get anywhere near his room at bedtime.

Mr.Wemmick

On the whole, our lad sleeps well but we have had similar experiences, and he is having a tough time at the moment feeling anxious going to bed. I am wondering if it is this time of year: lighter evenings, harder to get to sleep; not looking froward to bed time etc. As far as I remember, we had the same problems this time last year. By the way, did any of your boys have night terrors as toddlers? Our lad did, lasted a few months and it was not an easy time.

With our boy, it is a secure thing. He feels anxious, thinks about death, dying, feeling sick.. he heard a noise last night that scared him and he came into our room to tell us. He usually sleeps very well but can go through periods of stress before bedtime and be in tears at the thoughts of going to bed, feeling quite scared.

Things we have done and do which help:

A dream angel that comes into his room at night to protect him since he was 6. We have a special dream angel blessing we do together before sleep and it reassures him. We also talk about the angel, as she knows the tooth fairy and Santa and some of the elves as they're all good friends etc. This makes him laugh.. I usually tell him some funny made up stories to help relax him.

He now talks about God in heaven because of he is learning more about religion in school and and quite likes to think about God watching over him before going to sleep which calms him down. I always leave him on his own awake lying in bed and then come back to check (more than once if necessary) if he is feeling good and say night, night. I stay calm, whispering quiet and positive.

If you are non-religious and don't believe in talking to your children about make believe characters then I suggest a piece of music they can play on a low volume setting over and over until they fall sleep, or a poem, story they can listen to or read.. Something they can learn to do independently to get themselves off to sleep in a good way.

The thing is, the boys really do have to find their own way to calm themselves down. The longer they rely on us to settle them, cure their loneliness whilst lying in bed, the less chance they have of dealing with it independently. As parents we need to help them to find their own way through this and encourage them to feel more settled, secure and happy about bed, sleep and dreams.. and feeling okay/positive about being on their own at bed time is very important. Once the boys are able to go to sleep happy and on their own without being scared, the less likely they'll need us in the night to settle them as they should be able to get themselves off to sleep again once awake.

BostonB

Quiet music on stereo, and a book, sometimes read part of it. No simulation (nothing exciting) from about an hour before bed, so that's no exciting TV, Games or physical activity, energy foods or drinks. Good to have done some thing tiring earlier in evening. Make them physically tired.

It might take weeks if not months to change their habits. So take it slow. Maybe make one change a week.

ElvisChrist6

I can't really comment on the getting up from bed etc, but with regards to the worries...

I was an extremely worried child from about 3-10, with similar worries: alien experiments, nuclear holocaust, and I couldn't have a clock or radio in my bedroom at night in case the clock stopped or the radio came on and called my name. It started at about 3 when I was convinced I'd die in my sleep. Eventually, my aunt gave me these little souvenir type things which she said would protect me from whatever and that helped an incredible amount, except one night when I couldn't find them and I fucking freaked! But maybe that could be an option....

Unfortunately, I became an atheist around my communion, so I stopped believing in those superstitions, and my worries became worse: aliens and nuclear attacks were still a huge one, but also the idea of no heaven made me think of eternal conscious nothingness after death. Of course, at night my brain would start acting up and I would genuinely become terrified and needed consoling. Worries like that should be addressed. Despite what some people think, the more logical explanations the better for kids that age, don't bullshit him or he'll spot the flaws and worry again. Those worries can be really affecting, so whatever about the getting up from bed, the nerves are important!

I started this post thinking I'd have more advice than I did, but then it was too late to stop, so sorry about that!

Also, this:

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Allay his fears. Show him that the house is secured against burglars. Perhaps install a smoke alarm/carbon monoxide alarm in his room and purchase a small fire extinguisher for under his bed. And remind him that while some bad things do happen in the world, they are very rare. The media only shows the bad stuff and rarely report on any of the good deeds people do.

+1 CrazyRabbit

Beancounter 2013

Not just a bit thing!! My eldest daughter (now almost 15 was never ever a good sleeper - fine up to when she an ear infection at about 18 months but a nightmare from then until I realised when she was about 11 that I can't 'make' her sleep!! I know kids need sleep and we don't want them anxious or upset at bedtime but I know when I have big worries they usually surface when I go to bed too :-/ I think it's obvious when kids are taking the proverbial at bedtime and totally agree with rigid routine re bedtime.

My youngest always had a pain at bedtime, needs a drink, has one last thing to tell you etc. We cuddle and read for about 10 mins and she's generally gone (now!) in another 10! It took a long time to get to that point but now usually works. Another important thing, if possible at all, is for parents to have turn about at bedtime - that way no one patent becomes the bedtime baddie EVERY night!

madchild

Is he active i,m sure if ya took him for a long walk or cycle to make sure he was tired he should sleep no bother but if they,re spending the day in front of a computer they won,t be so tired get them active

Outkast_IRE

pennypitstop wrote: »

My son is 9. I don't think he has slept a full night through in his life!
It is causing lots of problems obviously.

Does the usual delay tactics, hungry, needs a glass of water, a hot water bottle, up to the toilet etc at bed time but also seems to discover a spot on his tongue/ arm/ leg etc or he is itchy, he has mysterious pains here and there and the list goes on.

He is worried about robbers, monsters, fires, the recent bombs on the news etc
If I get into his bed with him, which I sometimes do just so he is not exhausted for school, he is asleep in a few minuits (and the problems no longer keep him awake!) he sleeps with a lamp on, the door open and the bathroom light on!


I'm at my wits end. Do sleep-doctors work? are they expensive? any other suggestions

How is he for reading before bed ? Its probably one of the best habits to try and develop in a child as the reading material is usually light and will take their mind off anything else, with the reading tiring the mind and eyes ?

I would get him out of the lamp on phase and force a move over to a dim night light at most. There are plenty of studies showing that with increased light levels the brain does not change into rest mode as easily or reach as deep a sleep as you would in darkness.

Doublelime

If its really bad sleeping pills are an option. I don't recommend them just putting it out their.

Fittle

I could easily be reading about my own son OP - it's almost the exact same situation.

He's just 11 now and STILL hasn't slept a full night, unless he is in the bed with me (and even then, he twists and turns all night!!) Only last night, after reading this thread, I got back into the habit of a warm bath, a book, staying with him for ten minutes etc, and after an hour, I just caved and lay beside him till he fell asleep (almost 2 hours after bedtime) as he shouted down the stairs the whole time. He regularly asks me to bring him to a doctor because he can't sleep!

I am at a loss to explain why he's like this but I have a friend who's son is now 17, who was the same - I live in hope though, as he stopped wanting his parents beside him when he was about 13, and began sleeping all night and now she can't get him out of the bed!!!

I am also researching some issues relating to ADD for my son (he's always had issues regarding attention), and in almost every piece of reading material, and with every 'specialist' I've spoken to, they have all mentioned his lack of sleep being one of the tell-tale factors (not on it's own, but along with other issues).

Demosthenese

3 kids, alot wiser now but back when we had our first, now 8 yrs, he was brilliant at wasting time to prevent him from going to bed at designated time and i guess when i look back now i smile about it - anything from asking clever questions to worrying about monsters, to what would happen if the roof burst and i was trapped under the mess and died up here ...

Anyway, like alot of you he slept really well, TOO WELL, when i was with him so i began thinking this is not something that bothers him until we leave. SO - my wife and i made a plan to try get him out of it cos sleepless nights are just horrendus to everyone over a long period.

- We sat him down and explained that he would be going to sleep a X-time and that there was no getting away from this.
- Made sure to have an active day, outside playing etc.
- Bath 2 hours before bed.
- Again explaiend that he was going asleep by himself and that was that. Reassured him constantly and that this was what big boys did.
- Gave plenty of time to entertaining him before sleep and made sure that everything was covered time wise. Everything was relaxed. Lots of positive encouragement.
* At this point i should add, i normally work nightshift, i took the first 2 nights off but slept during the day a little in case of a rough night
- Bedtime came, story, light talk and bam ... off to bed with ya.
- Usual nonsense started, excuses, i hear something etc etc etc ... anyway, i calmly went upstairs and explained he was staying in bed, we were not coming back up and that we'd be watching through the monitor for anything. Firm and hard i reminded him what we agreed the day before and all that day.

... it was a rough 2 nights, he pulled out every trick in the book and we had to stop ourselves from going into him time after time and held firm. He slept both nights by himself. Eventually. It was tough no doubt ... but at the end of the day they are the kids we are the parents. time to stop entertaining the BS.

Now sleeps 10hrs a night, no worries and so do his siblings. No nonsense and when i look back it is funny how we tend to enterain the nonsense our kids come up with. Not saying that a child can have legitimate reasons for not sleeping but what are they??? Ear infection, sickness (Medical Reason of course! - this is more a guide for everyday kids pushing the boundaries) but not alot else. Makes sense.