Speed cameras and accidents.

sogood

Having seen an ad on Tv regarding garda speed cameras and their locations, it was stated that the cameras are located at places where there have been road accidents, resulting in serious injury or death.
The locations of these cameras are available on the garda website, but I wondered if the statistics/ figures for these alleged accidents are also available somewhere, just to back up the claim being made. I know of a few regular camera locations, with no knowledge of any accidents at these locations. Conversely, I have seen numerous "markers" ie; flowers, crosses etc. at places where someone unfortunately lost their life, with never a speed camera to be seen.

Thanks.

ironclaw

I agree with the basic premise but the execution is pure revenue. Any time I've come across one, its always been around a corner or 'just so' it can't be seen from a distance. Why hide? My biggest complaint however is they have no reflective markings. I've yet to manage to get one in the right light conditions for a photo, but they do not reflect as well as standard reflectors. Again, why?

The ad's also say something to the affect of 'speed is the number one killer on Irish roads' I don't know anyone who died in a stationary car crash.

No doubt IWannaHurl will be along with a PasteBin of links and justification for them. I don't believe they make much difference as I've yet to see independent evidence. Most is produced by road safety authorities or police forces, they arn't going to say something that costs millions doesn't work.

An experiment I want to run is measure the average speed of a road without obvious speed monitoring. Then, re-measure the average speed with signage (But no obvious monitoring) Now, re-measure the average speed with signage and obvious measurement (i.e. Wearing a high vis jacket or get the Gardai for day) Pretty sure the only time anyone would slow down is in the final case.

Kenny Logins

It's bullsh!t.

Odelay

sogood wrote: »

Having seen an ad on Tv regarding garda speed cameras and their locations, it was stated that the cameras are located at places where there have been road accidents, resulting in serious injury or death.
The locations of these cameras are available on the garda website, but I wondered if the statistics/ figures for these alleged accidents are also available somewhere, just to back up the claim being made. I know of a few regular camera locations, with no knowledge of any accidents at these locations. Conversely, I have seen numerous "markers" ie; flowers, crosses etc. at places where someone unfortunately lost their life, with never a speed camera to be seen.

Thanks.

People focus too much on the death part, "I don't remember a death there!", however there is also the serious injury part. "Serious injuries" are life changing.
I'm not saying the cameras are always in the right place but if the criteria is death or serious injury then sounds fair to me
Obviously they could abolish the fine and just use the points to prevent it from appearing like a "money spinner!"

Technoprisoner

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Ireland-Road-Collisions/

sogood

Thanks for that link, very useful and informative. An example of what I'm talking about is the fact that the stretch of road from Cobh up to the N25, shows it to be "accident free" with no collisions recorded. However, it is a regular, signposted speed van location, right after coming around a sharp bend onto a long straight stretch. Why is the camera van there if it's accident free, when there are so many other danger spots to choose from?

PS. I did refer to serious injury in my original post, and I accept that sometimes a fatality may be the lesser of two evils. ( A personal view)

readytosnap

There is a speed van fairly regular in our village, I have lived here for almost 20 years and there has never been an accident in the village.
Having said that it doesn't really bother me that it is there, it does act as a deterrent too the many motorists especially truckers that drive through breaking the speed limit, its 50kmh i swear some of them dont even slow down at all.
so whilst it does act as a deterrent it has to be just a fund raising exercise.

Jogathon

sogood wrote: »

Thanks for that link, very useful and informative. An example of what I'm talking about is the fact that the stretch of road from Cobh up to the N25, shows it to be "accident free" with no collisions recorded. However, it is a regular, signposted speed van location, right after coming around a sharp bend onto a long straight stretch. Why is the camera van there if it's accident free, when there are so many other danger spots to choose from?
)

I drive that road regularly and there are often crashes on that stretch. It's a very poor road, considering the amount of traffic on it, and the fact that it's the only road in and out of the Great Island.

sogood

Jogathon wrote: »

I drive that road regularly and there are often crashes on that stretch. It's a very poor road, considering the amount of traffic on it, and the fact that it's the only road in and out of the Great Island.

Well then RSA need to update their map, as according to it, there haven't been any accidents on it. I'm all in favour of deterrents against bad driving, but perhaps they could be employed more effectively?

Technoprisoner

sogood wrote: »

Well then RSA need to update their map, as according to it, there haven't been any accidents on it. I'm all in favour of deterrents against bad driving, but perhaps they could be employed more effectively?

have you tried changing the year to "all" on the right hand side?

Chemical Burn

sogood wrote: »

Having seen an ad on Tv regarding garda speed cameras and their locations, it was stated that the cameras are located at places where there have been road accidents, resulting in serious injury or death.
The locations of these cameras are available on the garda website, but I wondered if the statistics/ figures for these alleged accidents are also available somewhere, just to back up the claim being made. I know of a few regular camera locations, with no knowledge of any accidents at these locations. Conversely, I have seen numerous "markers" ie; flowers, crosses etc. at places where someone unfortunately lost their life, with never a speed camera to be seen.

Thanks.

They are not in accident blackspots, they are on roads which are 50 lanes wide and straight for 10000 kilometers which have 0.00001 kph speed limit for revenue purposes. No intention of saving lives. Greedy private camera operators getting revenue is all.

paul52

we now spend so much driving time looking at our speedos and dodging potholes that accidents are just around the next corner . we dont hear anything about this from rsa. rural roads are now in a hazzardos state.

Odelay

Chemical Burn wrote: »

They are not in accident blackspots, they are on roads which are 50 lanes wide and straight for 10000 kilometers which have 0.00001 kph speed limit for revenue purposes. No intention of saving lives. Greedy private camera operators getting revenue is all.

50 lanes wide???? and straight for 10,000km???? circumference of the Earth is 40,000km!! Where the hell are you driving???

paul52

where is my rediculous road tax going

Chris_Heilong

paul52 wrote: »

where is my rediculous road tax going

just wait....you will be corrected on that in a few posts time.

Speed cameras suck balls

dgt

sogood wrote: »

Having seen an ad on Tv regarding garda speed cameras and their locations, it was stated that the cameras are located at places where there have been road accidents, resulting in serious injury or death.
The locations of these cameras are available on the garda website, but I wondered if the statistics/ figures for these alleged accidents are also available somewhere, just to back up the claim being made. I know of a few regular camera locations, with no knowledge of any accidents at these locations. Conversely, I have seen numerous "markers" ie; flowers, crosses etc. at places where someone unfortunately lost their life, with never a speed camera to be seen.

Thanks.

This subject crops up every so often....

I can think of one or 2 where the speed van positioning is justified but most of the locations are money making rackets. Blatant money making rackets with no incentive to save lives, but milk money from people doing a couple of km over the limit. Whatever the reason be it speeding to a faulty speedo, they're got. The dangerous, hardened criminals of our society :rolleyes:

Mind you, I have no sympathy for someone caught many km's over the limit. Fire the book at them

I can fire up links to my posts of such locations of money making rackets and I can guarantee the speed camera loving folk won't come on to explain why they are there and not at a fatality zone to slow folk down.

They can't, because they know deep down, I'm right

BMJD

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

just wait....you will be corrected on that in a few posts time.

Speed cameras suck balls

AugustusMinimus

I can think of a location where there is a "safety camera".

In the last 30 years, there has been a single fatality on this road. A person got knocked down by a drunken driver. This stretch of road is excellent quality.

Now, considering speeding clearly wasn't the reason for this fatality, why is there a speed camera zone on this road ?

AugustusMinimus

paul52 wrote: »

we now spend so much driving time looking at our speedos and dodging potholes that accidents are just around the next corner . we dont hear anything about this from rsa. rural roads are now in a hazzardos state.

Pot holes and collapsed roads are now easily the biggest hazard on our roads. A hell of a lot worse than speeding.

ironclaw

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Pot holes and collapsed roads are now easily the biggest hazard on our roads. A hell of a lot worse than speeding.

I do a good bit of rural driving but recently did this stretch:

http://goo.gl/maps/fFber

I'm not sure if anyone drives that on a regular basis but my god that road is in a state, especially when you turn off the N18. Its 100km/h (Mindless speed limit) and its a rollercoaster of pot holes and degraded corners. If I was a Co. Co. Engineer I'd be ashamed. Might actually see can I pop up the DVR footage.

Should note, its not a speed camera stretch. More of an example of shocking road quality.

keithclancy

ironclaw wrote: »

I do a good bit of rural driving but recently did this stretch:

http://goo.gl/maps/fFber

I'm not sure if anyone drives that on a regular basis but my god that road is in a state, especially when you turn off the N18. Its 100km/h (Mindless speed limit) and its a rollercoaster of pot holes and degraded corners. If I was a Co. Co. Engineer I'd be ashamed. Might actually see can I pop up the DVR footage.

Should note, its not a speed camera stretch. More of an example of shocking road quality.

Just drive slower.

I was down in West cork last week and some of those roads had a 80km/h speed limit, no effing way I'd do the speed limit on them though.

wtlltw

keithclancy wrote: »

Just drive slower.

I was down in West cork last week and some of those roads had a 80km/h speed limit, no effing way I'd do the speed limit on them though.

LOL, I was in Cavan last week and took the same approach, the locals were overtaking me (including the tractors)

Padraig Mor

sogood wrote: »

Thanks for that link, very useful and informative. An example of what I'm talking about is the fact that the stretch of road from Cobh up to the N25, shows it to be "accident free" with no collisions recorded. However, it is a regular, signposted speed van location, right after coming around a sharp bend onto a long straight stretch. Why is the camera van there if it's accident free, when there are so many other danger spots to choose from?

PS. I did refer to serious injury in my original post, and I accept that sometimes a fatality may be the lesser of two evils. ( A personal view)

Jogathon wrote: »

I drive that road regularly and there are often crashes on that stretch. It's a very poor road, considering the amount of traffic on it, and the fact that it's the only road in and out of the Great Island.

I use the road daily and it's a bit of both really. The camera van is frequently (every few days) located by IFI, at a location one can presume is used to catch drivers coming over the crest of a gentle hill. I recall perhaps two minor accidents near that stretch in the last decade. Far more dangerous is the Fota Island stretch which has regular accidents, including one fatal (non speed related AFAIK) recently. While this is listed on the map, there is NEVER a camera on this stretch, despite a long straight section of road to allow it.

The 'back road' into Cobh features an appallingly designed junction which was the scene of one fatal and one serious accident over Christmas/New Year. It is only a few hundred metres from the IFI 'numbers generating' spot, yet is not on the camera zone list.

keithclancy

wtlltw wrote: »

LOL, I was in Cavan last week and took the same approach, the locals were overtaking me (including the tractors)

Yeh .. bloody muppets ... leave them overtake .. I don't want to partake in the Darwinism

ironclaw

keithclancy wrote: »

Just drive slower.

I was down in West cork last week and some of those roads had a 80km/h speed limit, no effing way I'd do the speed limit on them though.

Oh of course. I wasn't doing anywhere near 100. Was closer to 60 in most sections and the axle was taking some beating at that. Its not even possible to get to 100 given the road condition and actual direction of the road. Yes there are sections where 80+ is possible but its a shockingly bad road surface for most of it.

AugustusMinimus

So the Cork South Ring Road between Douglas and Kinsale Roundabout is now in a "safety" camera zone.

THis is just absolute nonsense. Since when is this a dangerous road.

Kenny Logins

I looked into this during the week, the RSA has a map of serious accidents and fatalities, and AGS has a map of 'safety camera' zones. I'll post links in a bit.

Kenny Logins

Here. (Was easier than I thought it would be on mobile..)

http://www.garda.ie/gosafe.htm


http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Ireland-Road-Collisions/

(Ah, posted already...)

AugustusMinimus

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Here. (Was easier than I thought it would be on mobile..)

http://www.garda.ie/gosafe.htm


http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Ireland-Road-Collisions/

(Ah, posted already...)

There was on fatality on the South Ring Road where they are putting the camera.

The reason for the crash ? A person was driving contra flow on a dual carriageway.

How will a speed camera exactly stop people dying from people diving down the wrong side of a dual carriageway

Another example of where it's just a money making racket is the Fairyhouse Road. According to RSA data, no serious accidents ever on that road, yet it's a GoSafe location.

Also, on the Coolmine Road (50Km limit, I agree since it's close to housing estates etc), in 2005 there was a collision involving an out of control motorbike colliding with a mother and two children. The rider died. I don't know what happened to the other three. Yet, this road was chosen for a Go Safe "safety" camera. How can one accident from 8 years ago see a road called a "blackspot"?

Yes some of the cameras are be for safety, but the majority are just reveue generators, and I won't change my opinion until independent data proves me to be wrong.

mb1725

GoSafe/ Safety Cameras seem to have a healthy enough advertising budget for a recession!

toastedpickles

http://goo.gl/maps/7vkcA

Speed vans love to sit here, only problem is, there's a roundabout just behind and if you can get past 80km in less than 200/300m that quick you're doing well

Also http://goo.gl/maps/6NoHg

They used to sit at the top of the hill in front of a filling station, there isn't any reason for it to be there

And lastly http://goo.gl/maps/rG0ZB

The garda vans love this spot, but again on a straight road, no reason for it being there, I've lived in the area all my life and not a single person has died there in any form of accident, I'll continue to bring up more pointless locations if need be but there's my two cents

Saab Ed

One of the places they park speed vans is on the Palmerstown By-Pass. The only person to ever die at that junction was a drunk who fell off the outside of the pedestrian bridge. Still counts as a death on the road. Farce.