Residental Renting

scotzgeeza

Me and my gf was thinking of getting out first house together. But i am slightly clueless atm of what tenants are allowed to do. We can obviously choose our own power provider? My gf has mentioned pre-pay electricity, is it good as in cheaper than normal?

djimi

I think pre-pay actually works out a bit more expensive (unless your bills are very high) as the standing charge is more expensive than normal rates. Personally I wouldnt bother; if you want to pay off the electric as you go you can get a card that allows you to pay an amount onto your account each week/month at (I think) the post office).

Im not sure what else you are looking to see if you are allowed to do? In terms of utilities it depends on where you are renting, but for the most part you are free to choose electric, gas, internet, phone etc providers. If you live in an apartment complex you may be restricted in which TV services you can avail of as many will not allow to put up a satellite dish.

Ray Palmer

The LL has to agree to put a meter. Some might not like it as it would be seen as low rent. Interfering with the set-up in a rented property has to be done by permission.

Having looked it up I don't think there is much to object to but I would be hesitant getting them installed myself.

the_syco

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Having looked it up I don't think there is much to object to but I would be hesitant getting them installed myself.

If I owned property, I'd wonder if the tenant would be able to afford the rent if they wanted pre-pay bills from the get go.

Ray Palmer

the_syco wrote: »

If I owned property, I'd wonder if the tenant would be able to afford the rent if they wanted pre-pay bills from the get go.

That is a very good point, it would ring alarm bells alright.

Rasmus

the_syco wrote: »

If I owned property, I'd wonder if the tenant would be able to afford the rent if they wanted pre-pay bills from the get go.

It is a good way of keeping track of energy usage. Developing good habits for handling your bills has no bearing on your ability to pay any of them.

OP, you might just find it a bit of a hassle not being able to just pay a bill at the end of two month period - I know I would but know others that prefer pre-pay.

As far as what you are 'allowed to do' I'd say take a look at a standard lease for some ideas. Basic things that come to mind are no subletting, no changes to the structure, appearance or integrity of the property etc without LL consent, don't put in freestanding gas heaters or what not, no operating a business from home without LL knowledge, keep it in good condition and so on.

djimi

the_syco wrote: »

If I owned property, I'd wonder if the tenant would be able to afford the rent if they wanted pre-pay bills from the get go.

Pre-pay is about managing your bill I would have thought, more so ability to pay? Its not like pre-pay is cheaper than normal billing, and I doubt many people go pre-pay with the intention of letting the electric cut off for the periods that they cant afford it!

Ray Palmer

djimi wrote: »

Pre-pay is about managing your bill I would have thought, more so ability to pay? Its not like pre-pay is cheaper than normal billing, and I doubt many people go pre-pay with the intention of letting the electric cut off for the periods that they cant afford it!

Seriously! You think pre pay is an illustration of managing your bills? It shows to me a complete inability to manage your bills as you don't trust yourself. I would say most people go pre-pay as the often can't pay the bill at the end of the month. Not reassuring they can manage their money to pay monthly rent.

I had tenants who would run up a gas bill during the winter then get cut off and spend the summer paying off the bill to get reconnected for the winter. Not great when the house is inspected and you can't prove the appliances work because the tenant has the gas cut off. That meant they had no cooker or hot water.

Rasmus

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It shows to me a complete inability to manage your bills as you don't trust yourself. I would say most people go pre-pay as the often can't pay the bill at the end of the month. Not reassuring they can manage their money to pay monthly rent.

I had tenants who would run up a gas bill during the winter then get cut off and spend the summer paying off the bill to get reconnected for the winter. Not great when the house is inspected and you can't prove the appliances work because the tenant has the gas cut off. That meant they had no cooker or hot water.

If you are judging a tenants ability to pay rent by their energy usage choices you really need to properly vet those you rent to. Sounds like you have picked some right prizes. Pre-paying tenants can actually be aware of their outgoings, unlike some who get to the point of being cut-off.

djimi

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Seriously! You think pre pay is an illustration of managing your bills? It shows to me a complete inability to manage your bills as you don't trust yourself. I would say most people go pre-pay as the often can't pay the bill at the end of the month. Not reassuring they can manage their money to pay monthly rent.

I had tenants who would run up a gas bill during the winter then get cut off and spend the summer paying off the bill to get reconnected for the winter. Not great when the house is inspected and you can't prove the appliances work because the tenant has the gas cut off. That meant they had no cooker or hot water.

Yes, I do. If a tenant doesnt think that they can pay their bills then they are hardly going to install a system that ensures that they get their electric cut off the minute the money runs out, are they?

I think its a frankly ridiculous assumption to make to be honest. A tenant who genuinely cannot pay their bills is far more likely to be like the one you described, who ran up a bill and then got cut off. At least someone with a pre-pay meter has acknowledged that they need a bit of help managing their bill.

From a landlords point of view, would you not prefer to have a meter in place so at least you know that whatever happens the tenant wont leave the property with a large outstanding bill unpaid?

Ray Palmer

Rasmus wrote: »

If you are judging a tenants ability to pay rent by their energy usage choices you really need to properly vet those you rent to. Sounds like you have picked some right prizes. Pre-paying tenants can actually be aware of their outgoings, unlike some who get to the point of being cut-off.

They lived there for 6 years and paid their rent on time and did no damage. I have no idea how you would vet somebody on how they will live. It was the fact they lived there so long that I saw their pattern.

I don't really have a say on what people want to live like. They never really used the cooker as some of the accessories like the grill were never even unwrapped. It was brand new when they moved in.

I know my outgoings because I pay bills paying by prepaid doesn't give you extra knowledge. It is specifically for people who can't manage money correctly and advertised as such. It is a sign of poverty to most I suspect.

djimi

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is a sign of poverty to most I suspect.

Dont be so utterly ridiculous. I suppose you also see having a pay as you go phone as a sign of poverty also?

I know of some people when I was growing up who had a payphone installed in their house. Not because they couldnt afford the bills, but because their teenagers kept running up huge bills. A pre-pay/PAYG solution allows you to manage your usage more effectively than a monthly/bi-monthly bill does. Most people I have read talking about pre-pay electricity said they installed it because they wanted to more effectively manage their usage; because they didnt want to have to deal with a huge bill, not because they couldnt afford to pay it.

Ray Palmer

djimi wrote: »

Yes, I do. If a tenant doesnt think that they can pay their bills then they are hardly going to install a system that ensures that they get their electric cut off the minute the money runs out, are they?

I think its a frankly ridiculous assumption to make to be honest. A tenant who genuinely cannot pay their bills is far more likely to be like the one you described, who ran up a bill and then got cut off. At least someone with a pre-pay meter has acknowledged that they need a bit of help managing their bill.

From a landlords point of view, would you not prefer to have a meter in place so at least you know that whatever happens the tenant wont leave the property with a large outstanding bill unpaid?

You seem to be missing why these meters were historically installed and how they are being sold now. They are specifically for people who can't manage their money.

Some of us have memory of coin operated gas and electric meters and what the households were like. I have been in people's houses where the electricity was off because they couldn't afford to put money in the meter. That stigma will remain with the memories

djimi wrote: »

Dont be so utterly ridiculous. I suppose you also see having a pay as you go phone as a sign of poverty also?

Most people I have read talking about pre-pay electricity said they installed it because they wanted to more effectively manage their usage; because they didnt want to have to deal with a huge bill, not because they couldnt afford to pay it.

Pretty much the definition of not being able to manage your money. Unable to deal with a bill after usage or having difficulty doing so would mean they can't manage their money. Rent is money so definitely a warning sign about ability to promptly pay the rent by having poor money management skills. Want to go back and find where I said pre paid meant somebody couldn't afford the bill? How prepaying actual manages usage other than sitting there in the dark because you didn't put any credit in is a mystery to me.

I think it is ridiculous that you are telling me that nobody would have the perception I have. You are denying that my view exists. It was also brought up by somebody else

djimi

Not being able to manage your money is not the same as poverty Ray. I would say Im pretty awful generally at money management, but thats not to say Im ever in a situation where I cannot afford to pay my bills. Poverty means not having any money, not the inability to manage your funds.

Just about any tenant can have poor money management, and as you have experienced its not always easy to tell at the start which ones. Surely a tenant who takes steps to resolve any issue they have with money management is better than a tenant who just ignores such issues and allows themselves get into a situation where they run up a huge bill that they cant pay?

Youre entitled to have any perception you like. I just think you are kidding yourself if you think that judging people on criteria such as this makes any difference whatsoever.

Ray Palmer

djimi wrote: »

Not being able to manage your money is not the same as poverty Ray. I would say Im pretty awful generally at money management, but thats not to say Im ever in a situation where I cannot afford to pay my bills. Poverty means not having any money, not the inability to manage your funds.

Just about any tenant can have poor money management, and as you have experienced its not always easy to tell at the start which ones. Surely a tenant who takes steps to resolve any issue they have with money management is better than a tenant who just ignores such issues and allows themselves get into a situation where they run up a huge bill that they cant pay?

Youre entitled to have any perception you like. I just think you are kidding yourself if you think that judging people on criteria such as this makes any difference whatsoever.

The same signs that show inability to manage your money can show lack of money.

I get what you are saying with regard to being proactive on money management. What I don't think you get is why would a LL want to take on such a risk if they don't have to. If somebody can't manage their money would you trust them to be able to pay their rent on time?

Judging somebody by their request to change the billing system on the property seems pretty reasonable to me. It is an inconvenience and the next tenant may dislike it. I think you are kidding yourself to assume everybody who wants such a meter only does so because they have poor money management skills. There is a traditional link with such meters being linked to poverty. I would also say that such meters are generally in poorer households.

Still not getting how such meters help manage usage according to you.

fasttalkerchat

I went with prepay electric because its 1.5p per unit cheaper than paying quarterly with the cheapest provider n NI. There are no standing charges here. I put £50 on the machine and don't have to worry about it for a while. If it runs out I can top up 24/7 over the phone. No need to worry about bank transfers etc.
I moved house last month and was told the old house was transferred over to the landlords name when I left. Called up to verify this to be told it was still in my name. I refused to pay and disconnected the supply... serves the lying B****** right!

Topup electricity is win-win for me!

scotzgeeza

the_syco wrote: »

If I owned property, I'd wonder if the tenant would be able to afford the rent if they wanted pre-pay bills from the get go.

I am just seeing peoples opinions, by the looks of it its more expensive anyway so probs go with airtricity or something. Its a couple of months a way anyway before any decisions have to be made. But cheers for the inputs guys. Greatly appreciated .