Did McDonalds Get Planning Permission?

The Real B-man

Im not trying to Start a Debate whatever you're opinions you are entitled to them i just wan't to know did they get Planning Permission in the end? i cannot find the Application on Wicklow CoCo site.

Charlie-Bravo

This is just my commentary of what I can see from the WCC website - It's in a 'further information' status. There's a copy of the FI letter to the applicant requesting further information about the design of the building (basically they are looking to see if it is in character with the surrounding buildings). Also it looks like WCC are deeming the corporate signage and free-standing advertising structures to be somewhat inappropriate. So perhaps WCC asking McDonald's to dumb-down how it looks on such a prominent location...

Location of application: File Ref: 138028

Quackhart

Has anyone else started thinking that this could just be the answer as to what should be done with that 'oul eyesore hotel down the sea front...

NobodyImportant

Which Maccy D's are you talking about?

WinnyThePoo

Quackhart wrote: »

Has anyone else started thinking that this could just be the answer as to what should be done with that 'oul eyesore hotel down the sea front...

nope

The Durutti Column

http://www.wicklow.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=138028&LASiteID=0

VoMMit have not yet submitted the further info requested by WCC. The application is on hold.

Worth looking at this letter. The design as submitted is not acceptable to WCC. They have asked for a redesign and certain other assurances which may not be possible....

http://www.wicklow.ie/idocsweb/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=120627&format=jpeg

The Durutti Column

As anyone who lodged an objection knows by now, WCC received the Further Information requested last week.

You can find McD's response here: http://bit.ly/14ZKwwJ

WCC have done their best to make it hard to find, forcing the viewer to plough through all the initial material to reach the latest., and not labelling it by date submitted. Typical, trying to thwart democratic use of the planning appeal process.

Open the page above
Go to the fifth item from top — Further info, 10 files, 1,350 Kb
Open the document
There are 10 files, choose File 10
Open it — there are eight pages including Lidl's letter ceding some frontage to McD's

So Lidl is joining in to support the McD application. Let's remember that when deciding whether to use Lidl or Aldi.

Objectors can now comment on the Further Info and on WCC's Request for it.

I don't know how long we have. Anybody know that?

And can people who did not lodge an official objection now comment?

Maudi

So wicklow county council seem to be garnishing favour along with lidl in supporting mcdonalds in its campaign to open one of its burger joints up there by all those schools?surley w.c.c are supposed to be impartial..is this the same council involved in the shady three trout flood plain land they bought for three million and is now unable to sell for 3 hundred thousand.?

pixbyjohn

Maudi wrote: »

So wicklow county council seem to be garnishing favour along with lidl in supporting mcdonalds in its campaign to open one of its burger joints up there by all those schools?

Where is the evidence to support this statement/question?

Maudi

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Where is the evidence to support this statement/question?

Read the thread detective the clues are there.

Maudi

Maudi wrote: »

Read the thread detective the clues are there.

Also im sure it should go without saying (in my humble opinion)its more appropriate and professsional for mods to remain impartial ..

Mitch Connor

Maudi wrote: »

Also im sure it should go without saying (in my humble opinion)its more appropriate and professsional for mods to remain impartial ..

Mods are entitled to hold and express whatever views they have as long as it is within the charter and they continue to uphold the charter in a fair manner. People become mods of areas they are interested in (for the most part) so it would be practically unworkable to tell mods they must remain impartial when posting.

Also - fingers crossed McDonalds do what needs to be done and they get the planning permission, would like to have a McDs option in greystones. Will be interested to see if they do make the design more conservative, and what they do in doing that. I'm aware the one in Bray is considered to be one of the nicest McDs restaurant in the world, owing to its design.

Maudi

Im afraid the mickey ds in bray dosent have a 'design' its hidden or lodged inside a historical building..and whoevers responsible for that parasitic planning disaster should be removed from their job..but thats just my two cents...im not going to go over all the moralistic /health reasons that take away fast food outlets shouldnt be zoned near schools its been done to death..its a matter of integrity and taste and it says a lot about a company (and parents) that would support such a move..im a fairly regular visitor to micky ds.( NEVER the one in bray) and would support them but else where in the town (near my house would be fine) but something ..i suppose its just the way i was brought up...tells me its wrong to put it outside schools..i.m.o

matt-dublin

they're near schools everywhere, the bray miccy d's is very clever, they bought a historic building with a great location and used a bit of innovation to get around the planning requirements and open up.

with lidl's support they will get it, it will only be good for lidl and will likely act as a trade driver for them so it's in their interest too. Will damage the pizza place and café though as miccy d's coffee has gone way up in the last year or so.

.243

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'm aware the one in Bray is considered to be one of the nicest McDs restaurant in the world, owing to its design.

not going by this report
http://www.takepart.com/photos/if-you-need-another-reason-not-go-mcdonalds#bray-town-hallbray-county-wicklow-ireland

DubOnHoliday

A big mac after shopping, sounds good to me.

Alun

Maudi wrote: »

Im afraid the mickey ds in bray dosent have a 'design' its hidden or lodged inside a historical building..and whoevers responsible for that parasitic planning disaster should be removed from their job..but thats just my two cents.

Sometimes it isn't as black and white as that. I think it's pretty tasteless too, but at the time permission was given, as I recall, there wasn't the money available to maintain the existing building to any decent standard, and no suitable plans were forthcoming for any other use for it, so the McD's option was seen as the lesser of two evils. At least the fabric of the building is intact now, and if at some future point their lease runs out, then at least there's still a building there to be put some other more 'noble' use.

The Real B-man

Alun wrote: »

Sometimes it isn't as black and white as that. I think it's pretty tasteless too, but at the time permission was given, as I recall, there wasn't the money available to maintain the existing building to any decent standard, and no suitable plans were forthcoming for any other use for it, so the McD's option was seen as the lesser of two evils. At least the fabric of the building is intact now, and if at some future point their lease runs out, then at least there's still a building there to be put some other more 'noble' use.

There was a Restaurant Previous to Mc Donalds entering in the Mid 90's, McDonalds Kept it Very Basic and in keeping with the Original Character of the Building and Recently did a Refurb that does not impact the Original features and is Ripped out very easily there are no Signs or advertising it is all in the building itself, it might not be everyones taste but it is responsibly taking care of the Building, & i dont think McDonalds are evil you know what you are getting the Calorie Info is Displayed no less healthier than you're local Chipper etc, Personal Choice and Moderation.

Getting off Track Here Sorry, Thanks for the Updated Info on Planning Application for Greystones.

Annasopra

Maudi wrote: »

Also im sure it should go without saying (in my humble opinion)its more appropriate and professsional for mods to remain impartial ..

Please be assured that a) Mods are allowed opinions and that b) you can take matters further if you feel that mods opinions have clouded their judgement as a moderator.

If you feel that my opinion is a conflict of interest with my position as a mod and that I have acted in a particularly partisan way or against the forum charter please feel free to pm me to complain. If I am unable to deal with your complaint I will ask a CMod to investigate. If your complaint cannot be investigated by a CMod an admin can investigate it.

There is no need to drag this thread off track any further. Any feedback on moderation can be sent by pm.

nickhx

Just in case anyone isn't aware - you have until this Friday to make further submissions in relation to the further information provided by McDonalds on 5 July before Wicklow County Council make their planning decision.

The Durutti Column

nickhx wrote: »

Just in case anyone isn't aware - you have until this Friday to make further submissions in relation to the further information provided by McDonalds on 5 July before Wicklow County Council make their planning decision.

Thanks, nick. Take a look at this:

http://bit.ly/13umAyF

matt-dublin

The Durutti Column wrote: »

Thanks, nick. Take a look at this:

http://bit.ly/13umAyF

What's has this got to do with McDonald's in Greystones?

Minimum wage and living expenses are different in the US to here.

20 minimum wage jobs is better than no jobs. They also offer career progression for those who excel.

The Durutti Column

matt-dublin wrote: »

What's has this got to do with McDonald's in Greystones?

Minimum wage and living expenses are different in the US to here.

20 minimum wage jobs is better than no jobs. They also offer career progression for those who excel.

I suppose McD's in Ireland are way more generous than in the good ol' US of A?

In any case, Greystones is supposed to be a centre for high-skill employment (see Local Area Plan). With three schools and a dental practice, the site at the Blacklion Centre should be dedicated either to some sort of high tech training centre or a high tech employer. Dead end jobs are just that: dead end.

matt-dublin

minimum wage is higher by legislation here than the US.

McDonalds offer a career progression path which includes a path to senior management. I think a restaurant manager in Miccy d's earns between 35-40k a year plus benefits.

jobs are needed regardless of skill levels. We need to help people get out of the dole queue, this cannot be achieved by just high skill jobs, especially when there is no market for such jobs in the area currently.

If Mc Donalds can get 20 full time employees hired there and 10-15 part time employees that's a saving to the government. I don't know what's the dole €198 odd a week?

For 20 full time employees that's a basic saving of over €200k for the government/taxpayer, this doesn't take into account any tax income they will get and PRSI/USC etc.

IanL

Spot on Matt, the comment before you was one of the most stupid I've ever heard. Does Durutti Column want the IFSC to move to Greystones?!

Any employment is good for any area in Ireland considering state of the country and the dead end comment was both snobby and extremely ignorant. I personally wouldn't like to work in McDonalds but if it's a darn sight better than being out of work.

matt-dublin

I completely agree, also there will be part time roles which will become available that will help local students generate income for, well, whatever students do!

McDonalds wouldn't be my first choice of a position, but If I had a choice between that and the queue I would prefer to work.

The Durutti Column

Ho, hum. (Yawn!!)

DubOnHoliday

IanL wrote: »

Spot on Matt, the comment before you was one of the most stupid I've ever heard. Does Durutti Column want the IFSC to move to Greystones?!

Any employment is good for any area in Ireland considering state of the country and the dead end comment was both snobby and extremely ignorant. I personally wouldn't like to work in McDonalds but if it's a darn sight better than being out of work.

Spot on.
Also, referring to the Local Area Plan and utopian ideals of high skills jobs for Greystones, a pipe dream at best, in reality a load of crap.

loyatemu

I think most people complaining don't have a problem with McD's as a business - its the proposed location they don't agree with.

DubOnHoliday

loyatemu wrote: »

I think most people complaining don't have a problem with McD's as a business - its the proposed location they don't agree with.

Which is totally understandable to be fair.

Huntthe

The location is typical for a McDonalds. Just back from France where a Big mac could be easily accessed on the outskirts of most towns. Funnily enough, the area was always spick and span and the vast majority of the French youth where not overweight.

The Bishop Basher

Obviously the Drutti Column believes all the restaraunts in Greystones should be self service. After all, we can't allow unskilled waiter/waitress jobs in the town. Where would it all end ? Likewise he has omitted to mention Lidl which, like McDonalds, provides unskilled jobs with the potential of significant career advancement and education for those who are prepared to put the slog in.

Not everyone starts their working life with a college degree. Some of us chose to get straight out of school and work our way up the ladder and make no apologies for that whatsoever. We all had to start somewhere.

The snobby attitude demonstrated by some people in this town is sickening at times.

As for location, once again, no one has batted an eyelid at the new pizza shop selling junk food and ice cream a couple of metres away from the proposed location. I suppose it just doesn't suit the lefty, anti capitalist wannabe hippy agenda.

2011

This won't end well

Huntthe

Swanner, I'm anti Capitalist and I'm not a huge fan of Ice cream . I'd prefer a crème Brule. Where does that leave me ?
I'd have to admit to being partial to a bit of champagne socialism.

The Bishop Basher

Huntthe wrote: »

Swanner, I'm anti Capitalist and I'm not a huge fan of Ice cream . I'd prefer a crème Brule. Where does that leave me ?
I'd have to admit to being partial to a bit of champagne socialism.

Nothing wrong with any particular political slant Huntthe. Variety keeps the world interesting.

However we do seem to have an over abundance of wannabe hippies in this town and all the unrealistic ideals that go with it. SUV's and socialist ideals don't mix all that well but that doesn't seem to stop them.

BTW. I'm a big fan of champagne myself. Not so keen on the socialism though :-)

Annasopra

I think this thread is in danger of getting dragged onto off topic issues such as wages, socialism and snobbery.

Could we please keep it on topic and stick to discussing planning matters.

Huntthe

BTW. I'm a big fan of champagne myself. Not so keen on the socialism though :-)

I know the first bit to be true and the second not so.

Zoo4m8

2011 wrote: »

This won't end well

Yeah, but think of the amusement it'll provide for the rest of us in the meantime..:)

cuddlycavies

I would concur with the view that the location is ideal for McDs in a practical sense. Enough space for drive thru and parking. The school site is a coincidence. Kids will walk to jokers if jokers is what they want. And kids will walk to McDs if that's what they want. In the meantime I drive to Bray and share a family restaurant with skagheads from the clinic opposite.

DubOnHoliday

I'm waiting for a conspiracy theory linking McD's planning application to erosion at the beach , the harbour debacle and dogs barking in charlesland.

matt-dublin

Don't forget clamping too!!!

JanneG

DubOnHoliday wrote: »

I'm waiting for a conspiracy theory linking McD's planning application to erosion at the beach , the harbour debacle and dogs barking in charlesland.

matt-dublin wrote: »

Don't forget clamping too!!!

Could we clamp the dogs?

Annasopra

JanneG wrote: »

Could we clamp the dogs?

Is that an on topic planning issue? :P

The Durutti Column

Swanner wrote: »

Obviously the Drutti Column believes all the restaraunts in Greystones should be self service. After all, we can't allow unskilled waiter/waitress jobs in the town. Where would it all end ? Likewise he has omitted to mention Lidl which, like McDonalds, provides unskilled jobs with the potential of significant career advancement and education for those who are prepared to put the slog in.

Not everyone starts their working life with a college degree. Some of us chose to get straight out of school and work our way up the ladder and make no apologies for that whatsoever. We all had to start somewhere.

The snobby attitude demonstrated by some people in this town is sickening at times.

As for location, once again, no one has batted an eyelid at the new pizza shop selling junk food and ice cream a couple of metres away from the proposed location. I suppose it just doesn't suit the lefty, anti capitalist wannabe hippy agenda.

I see that the chances of an alliance between myself and Swanner have receded again. Awwww!!

nickhx

Looks like McDonalds have been granted planning permission by Wicklow CoCo. :-(

Status on website has changed to Decision made and it refers to 15 conditions (presumably this means permission granted subject to 15 conditions).

No further info up yet.

The Bishop Basher

The Durutti Column wrote: »

I see that the chances of an alliance between myself and Swanner have receded again. Awwww!!

Ah don't be so eager to write off any aliance DC. While McDonald's would be off the table, I have no personal grievances and i'm sure there's plenty of things we can agree on. Like how good the Mango Tree is for example

nickhx wrote: »

Looks like McDonalds have been granted planning permission by Wicklow CoCo. :-(

Status on website has changed to Decision made and it refers to 15 conditions (presumably this means permission granted subject to 15 conditions).

No further info up yet.

That's permission granted alright. The conditions will be posted in due course. Most of them are usually pretty standard but will be interesting to see them all the same.

Off to Board Pleanala now no doubt.

DubOnHoliday

Condition #1 - In line with the local area plan, and the area being a high skills environment, McD's can only hire graduates with a primary degree and 5 years plus experience.

The Durutti Column

Swanner wrote: »

Ah don't be so eager to write off any aliance DC. While McDonald's would be off the table, I have no personal grievances and i'm sure there's plenty of things we can agree on. Like how good the Mango Tree is for example



That's permission granted alright. The conditions will be posted in due course. Most of them are usually pretty standard but will be interesting to see them all the same.

Off to Board Pleanala now no doubt.

Definitely, my friend. To all of the above.

nickhx

Conditions are up now. See here for further details:

http://www.wicklow.ie/eplan41/viewschedule.aspx?file_number=138028&LASiteID=0


Looks pretty much like a rubber stamp from Wicklow CC to me - very little in the way of conditions dealing with the increased traffic that will inevitably result.

Pablo Sanchez

Great news, a victory for common sense:)

But i presume that this is not the final say, can it still be appealed to Bord Planala?

The Bishop Basher

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Great news, a victory for common sense:)

But i presume that this is not the final say, can it still be appealed to Bord Planala?

Yes it can and will.

Interesting to see that the planners upheld none of the original concerns raised that fell within their remit. Ie. traffic, flooding, suitability etc. They were obviously concerned with the visual aspect and from what I could tell, almost everyone agreed on that.

I think the proposed building is subtle enough and with the correct signage will be very unobtrusive.

Bord Pleanala can revisit the entire application though so it will ultimately rest in their hands.