Orwell League R2

buffalo

Well, that was a very generous handicap in the second race. Still, it was good training I suppose... avg HR of 175, I usually use 180 as my threshold.

ROK ON

Great fun. A bit apprehensive today - felt crap, tired from work and weather.
Lined up in limit. Stayed away. Led on first lap. Felt strong on last lap bit got boxed in at top and a few guys and gals opened a lead. Got back on in 6th for the sprint but a guy had me. Came in 7th.
Great fun. Really enjoyed the course.
AvHR was 90% of max for the short race.
Met Frank Grimes - he did a fair bit of pulling at the front.
One of the guys who placed, the first I saw of him was halfway thru the final lap. I thought it was semi limit that caught us but no.
If I was watching a race I would admire his astuteness. But in a race I thought it kinda sucked.

Great great fun - would have been nice to have a few more laps.
On a better night maybe.

buffalo

ROK ON wrote: »

Met Frank Grimes - he did a fair bit of pulling at the front..

And got rewarded for it too! Me thinks he'll be in SL soon enough.

Handicaps will be adjusted for next week I hope. Is this what it feels like to be in A1 in open races?

Caroline_ie

ROK ON wrote: »

Got back on in 6th for the sprint but a guy had me. Came in 7th.

From what I read, 'a girl had you' actually.

ROK ON

Caroline_ie wrote: »

From what I read, 'a girl had you' actually.

Bedecked in Rapha no less. Good job my Rapha gear was in the wash. Two sets of monochrome at one track would be unforgivable.

Woody_FX

ROK ON wrote: »

Great fun. A bit apprehensive today - felt crap, tired from work and weather.
Lined up in limit. Stayed away. Led on first lap. Felt strong on last lap bit got boxed in at top and a few guys and gals opened a lead. Got back on in 6th for the sprint but a guy had me. Came in 7th.
Great fun. Really enjoyed the course.
AvHR was 90% of max for the short race.
Met Frank Grimes - he did a fair bit of pulling at the front.
One of the guys who placed, the first I saw of him was halfway thru the final lap. I thought it was semi limit that caught us but no.
If I was watching a race I would admire his astuteness. But in a race I thought it kinda sucked.

Great great fun - would have been nice to have a few more laps.
On a better night maybe.

Were you racing limit? If so that was me. I took the first 2 laps slow checking out if I needed to break in corners or go flat out. When i figured it out you were all 1/3 of a lap ahead of me took me until the last lap before the 'bell' before I got back on to ye all. First crit and I really enjoyed it. Looking forward to the next one, I wont be left out the back a 2nd time.

Dowee

Rode in SL tonight. Limit seemed to have a fair headstart. A bunch of us broke away and caught some riders. Was very difficult to tell where the front of the race was as riders were dropping out and there were a number of groups on the course. We thought we were at the front by the the last lap or two. I broke away at end of the 2nd last lap and 'won' only to discover we'd all finished outside the points as a limit group mopped them up.

Enjoyable race. Must go faster next time. Was my first Crit. Are they always handicapped like that? Seems like it can get confusing when the race blows apart!

FrankGrimes

That was great craic. First time on the Corkagh track and I loved it, after a while you know the line to take in each corner and can really hit them hard. Excellent organization, everything ran like clockwork, which it’s already clear to me is the hallmark of all Orwell events.

Great to meet a few more people from the club and to see ROK_ON again – good to see some of the old skool boards folks from 3-4 years ago that were so generous with their advice to me as I was getting into cycling as part of my rehab from major surgery on both legs.

3rd place for me last night, though I was initially disappointed not to get 2nd and compete better for 1st. Now I’m seeing it as an excellent result given how tired I was and after looking at my data file, it was an excellent workout that’ll stand to me.

I’d been in Holland for a workshop this week which meant intense long days and late nights too. Was knackered and falling asleep on the plane, landed at 17:50 and just made it in time to sign-on, get changed in the car, and reach the start line, so didn’t get to do any warm-up or reccy the track. Tentative for the first lap in the wet but soon got comfortable. I did a lot of the early work at the front intending to set a pace that hopefully the group would work to keep up so we’d all ensure we fend off the chasing Semi-Limit group and then worry about fighting for places towards the end.

But, for whatever reason (and I’m conscious many of us are quite new to racing so it’s not a criticism, we’re all there to learn and develop), there wasn’t any real effective cooperation at the front. The eventual winner, who I’ll call Jim (not sure on the privacy policy so best to keep it anonymous), was very strong and I knew from the outset (and from hearing someone in the carpark tell him he should be in a much higher category) that he’d be there at the shake-up. Not sure if they were intentional early attacks or over-egged turns at the front, but he did plenty of work on the front and each time he went to the front, he opened up a gap (plenty of natural power) so I and a couple of others would chase him down. One or two others did very brief, 30 second turns at the front (with the lady that finished in 6th doing several – was glad she got her reward with a place), but in general the pace would slow when either of Jim or I wasn’t at the front and when it slowed significantly at one point I said feck it, Semi-Limit will defo catch us at this pace, so I said screw it I’ll drive and take the consequences of the extra energy costs. So on the one hand I was quite tactically naieve, but on the other hand, it helped ensure we stayed away and I got 3rd and a good workout that I think upped my game so am well happy.

I knew my workload would have taken the edge off my sprint so 1/3 the way into the final lap decided to make a move as I felt it was my best chance and I thought I’d been taking the fastest line into the furthest corner from the start line. Opened a decent gap and kept pushing but soon saw Jim had closed half the gap and would catch me sooner or later so I eased off to let him catch me earlier to save a bit of energy for the end. I was right where I wanted to be, on Jim’s wheel into the final corner so I could wait for him to sprint and go with him, but when he did, it was immediately clear he had too much for me. I didn’t realize another guy had actually caught us and as I’d not gotten out the saddle to sprint, he took me by surprise and it was too late to fight for 2nd. Annoyed with myself as I should’ve sprinted full-gas to the line even if I’d little chance of catching Jim. But the 356w normalized power for the 21mins was a PB for me so that’s progress.

I thought fair play to Jim – clearly a very strong rider but he also rode a very astute race. But I was initially a bit miffed with what turned out to be Woody_FX as I literally hadn’t seen him for the entire race and he pops up and nabs 2nd in the final straight: I was thinking each to their own, but personally I wouldn’t want to approach a club league race by sitting in the group and waiting for the sprint – for me that’s fine for an Open race but in club league where you’re there to develop I think we should all do some work so we all progress (but again, each to their own). But hearing that he effectively gave us a headstart due to surveying the course and then worked solo to catch us totally changes my view so I say chapeau Woody_FX, that’s some very strong riding to close that gap and then still have a sharp sprint in you, fair play.

Anyway, that was a great buzz altogether and a great bunch of new people to meet (all seemed very safe and sensible too which is great) and I can’t wait for next week – hope it’s dry as I’d say with extra speed into the corners that track will be even more fun.

buffalo

Dowee wrote: »

Was my first Crit. Are they always handicapped like that? Seems like it can get confusing when the race blows apart!

Though I'm not on the league committee, I imagine (hope!) they'll adjust the handicaps to give the chasers a better chance of a fairer race next week. Also, remember that some of the riders from L will probably go up to SL, and likewise SS to S, and things will balance out a bit then.

buffalo

FrankGrimes wrote: »

The eventual winner, who I’ll call Jim

Jim was in the club league last year, but he never placed, so don't think he's been intentionally hiding under the radar or anything. Seems like he's done some great winter training - third in limit in R1, first in R2. Won't be long before he's moved up - if it doesn't happen this week, it'll happen soon enough!

FrankGrimes

buffalo wrote: »

Jim was in the club league last year, but he never placed, so don't think he's been intentionally hiding under the radar or anything. Seems like he's done some great winter training - third in limit in R1, first in R2. Won't be long before he's moved up - if it doesn't happen this week, it'll happen soon enough!

Oh yeh, I'm in pretty much the same place myself - was nowhere near race standard in December but have put in a few months of hard training and seen good progress in that time so all you can do is do your best in the category you're in until you're told to move up...my intention was to compliment (e.g. someone saying you belong in a higher category is a compliment in my eyes, all Jim can do is focus on kicking ass in Limit as long as he's there and then do the same in Semi-Limit).

How do the upgrades work by the way, are they based on points or the organisers' judgement?

Agree that the handicap was a bit too big in the first race.

buffalo

FrankGrimes wrote: »

How do the upgrades work by the way, are they based on points or the organisers' judgement?

Agree that the handicap was a bit too big in the first race.

Organisers' judgement. If you win a race by a mile, you'll go straight up. If you get a few decent placings, you'll eventually go up. I've seen riders go up, and then straight back down when it became clear they just got lucky in a race and weren't /quite/ ready for the next cat.

Handicaps are likewise a matter of judgement. They might leave the handicaps as is next week, to encourage the chasing groups to work better together. Nobody knows what goes on in the crazy minds of the committee. :P

Kav0777

FrankGrimes wrote: »

The eventual winner, who I’ll call Jim (not sure on the privacy policy so best to keep it anonymous)

erm,... you do know the names of the top 6 are listed on the club website.... just sayin'..:p

ROK ON

Good write up Frank. Good to meet you - I knew that I recognised the face.
You did a lot of work as did Rapha lady and the tall chap in grey. Deserved the points.
I wanted to do more but everytime I went close to the front I couldn't keep pushing on. Hopefully that will come with more practice.
I agree about sitting in, but chapeau to the lad - he had a lot to claw back and he did.
I won't get to do any open races due to family commitments so for menthe club league is very important. It is THE reason that I joined Orwell.
Two races in thus far and I must say that I am loving it. Very impressed.

Buffalo - it is way too early to change the handicap IMHO.
Last might was very wet with a small turnout. Drier conditions and a larger turnout could see the groups come together quickly. Bear in mind that SL caught a lot of L, they just didn't catch 8 or 9 of us. Due in fairness to the winner and two to three others.

Dowee

ROK ON wrote: »

Bear in mind that SL caught a lot of L, they just didn't catch 8 or 9 of us. Due in fairness to the winner and two to three others.

I was at the front of SL. We only caught 2-3 riders and I've no clue what group they were in now. At the time I thought they were what was left of Limit after dropouts etc as I saw a good few of those. Speaking from a chasing perspective it's very difficult to know where you are in the race and based on the result last night we got it completely wrong.

Did Limit catch the SL riders that didn't make it in the break? The gap was too big IMHO but maybe we need to just pedal faster

FrankGrimes

Dowee wrote: »

I was at the front of SL. We only caught 2-3 riders and I've no clue what group they were in now. At the time I thought they were what was left of Limit after dropouts etc as I saw a good few of those. Speaking from a chasing perspective it's very difficult to know where you are in the race and based on the result last night we got it completely wrong.

Did Limit catch the SL riders that didn't make it in the break? The gap was too big IMHO but maybe we need to just pedal faster

Hey Dowee, think that might've been you I was talking to when you were collecting your bag with Paraic from my mate's car afterwards?

I can totally see how it's hard to keep track of where things stand - it was confusing enough for us at the front of the Limit section as at times there were people we caught that looked like Semi-Limit as they were going too fast to be at the back of the Limit group, so I can only imagine being in the chasing group was even more confusing. Other than have the folks at the finish line try keep track (maybe leading rider has to shout 'Front' when crossing the line each lap) and then shout at others who the leader is as they cross the line I can't think of any easy way to do it.

Dowee

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Hey Dowee, think that might've been you I was talking to when you were collecting your bag with Paraic from my mate's car afterwards?

I can totally see how it's hard to keep track of where things stand - it was confusing enough for us at the front of the Limit section as at times there were people we caught that looked like Semi-Limit as they were going too fast to be at the back of the Limit group, so I can only imagine being in the chasing group was even more confusing. Other than have the folks at the finish line try keep track (maybe leading rider has to shout 'Front' when crossing the line each lap) and then shout at others who the leader is as they cross the line I can't think of any easy way to do it.

Ye that was me. I agree it's tough for both groups. I think you must have been catching SL riders because we only caught a very small number of Limit riders and so to catch other Limit riders you'd have to have passed us. Maybe longer races on the longer evenings will even things out or maybe we need a set of football training bibs for each group

makker

Dowee wrote: »

Rode in SL tonight. Limit seemed to have a fair headstart. A bunch of us broke away and caught some riders. Was very difficult to tell where the front of the race was as riders were dropping out and there were a number of groups on the course. We thought we were at the front by the the last lap or two. I broke away at end of the 2nd last lap and 'won' only to discover we'd all finished outside the points as a limit group mopped them up.

Enjoyable race. Must go faster next time. Was my first Crit. Are they always handicapped like that? Seems like it can get confusing when the race blows apart!

My first race also. I was behind you but you had a fair bit in hand at the finish. You deserved something for the break you made. I was waiting for someone to go after you but did not happen so had to chase you but was in vain as you were like a bat out of hell.
I thought that we were racing among ourselves and the limit group among themselves, my own fault for not listening.
Next week I think the group will work better together and may get closer to the limit group, especially if the track is drier.
Overall great buzz, and can't wait for Thursday.