Ban Threat On Feminism Thread

thebigbiffo

EDIT: Thread was on Sexism not Feminism

So, I started a thread on the probability that company boards in the UK will be forced to have a gender quota of 40%. After what seemed to me like some fairly tame exchanges and stating my own personal viewpoints, this was posted on thread by dr.bollocko:

Originally Posted by thebigbiffo
Sorry but I will in fact blame all feminists – I’ve never met a feminist who doesn’t blame all men for their woes – so welcome to the club. I’m for EQUALITY, feminism

I’ve always had a problem with the maternity leave issue, because I do in fact believe it’s a very pertinent point when hiring staff. If I’m a struggling SME who needs someone in admin, why can I not ask a recently married 20 something what her intentions are as regards family? If I’m going to lose that staff member a matter of months after hiring them and pay for their leave and other benefits, it has the ability to break my company and cause major upset as I hire cover etc.

It’s not my bloody fault I can’t get pregnant! That’s not sexism, it’s human nature!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigbiffo
Nice to meet you both - I am sorry to stereotype you both!



Seriously, my view of feminism is that it now, as a movement, has gone too far. I dont see a distinction between feminists. Feminism brought this ridiculous situation about, so therefore all feminists are to blame, although possibly to lesser extents. At the very least, you should say that the RADICAL side of the feminism movement is winning in the context of this situation.

MOD:
OK. You started this thread.
I noticed it and started reading. Interesting debate.
Fair enough.

Now with the absolute crap above you've shown your true colours.
So
Post in this thread again = ban.

Considering your history, it will be a looooooooooooong ban too.

Any one else queries on the moderation, PM a mod or try feedback. Lets not ruin this thread with talk on thread. Please report any posts which cross the line.

Can someone independent of this argument please tell me why and how a mod can threaten me with a 'looooooooooooooong' ban for this exchange?

I dont want to argue the points obviously, I want to know how I broke a charter rule, because I'm stumped here.

thebigbiffo

Also, my PM exchange with dr.bollocko (who I had respect for once).

dr.bollocko wrote:

thebigbiffo wrote:

Seriously? I can hold the view that feminism brought about a situation where men are being discriminated against? I cant believe that the feminist movement caused a radical side to spring up which is now actively trying to change the law to discriminate against men?

Also, I cant hold the view that maternity leave as it now stands invites discrimination from employers?

Do you think I'm trolling? How could those posts possibly earn me a ban?

I'm actually fairly stunned over here. If i cant make those points in a thread about rampant and state sponsored discrimination against men, where can I make them?

I dunno. Politics.ie maybe.

How can this be seen as an appropriate response to a genuine grievance?

anncoates

Nice touch quoting somebody's PM (presumably) without permission.

thebigbiffo

anncoates wrote: »

Nice touch quoting somebody's PM (presumably) without permission.

Why should this be a problem? dr.b is a moderator and this is the feedback thread. it's more than relevant to my grievance (in fact, most of the reason i started this thread) - so it's not 'personal'...

Jerrica

thebigbiffo wrote:

I’ve never met a feminist who doesn’t blame all men for their woes

I’ve never met a polish person who doesn’t love to eat swans

I’ve never met a traveller who doesn’t love to bare-knuckle fight

See how that might be an issue?

Penn

You made a negative sweeping generalisation, then when two feminists said that they don't do what you were saying they did, you made essentially the same sweeping generalisation again.

It's borderline soapboxing and it's making negative sweeping generalisations against other posters despite them disproving your stance.

thebigbiffo

Jerrica wrote: »

See how that might be an issue?

The very central and starting point of feminism, or at least one major strand of it, is to escape from the yoke of male dominance/control, or however you're defining it yourself.

that can't be equated to astating you are bred as polish to eat swans or as a traveller to fight.

so, no, i dont see how that might be an issue. anything else to add?

thebigbiffo

Penn wrote: »

You made a negative sweeping generalisation, then when two feminists said that they don't do what you were saying they did, you made essentially the same sweeping generalisation again.

It's borderline soapboxing and it's making negative sweeping generalisations against other posters despite them disproving your stance.

feminism is a movement aimed solely at re-distributing power FROM men, in many forms.

so the very core of the issue is that by definition men, and the systems they put in place, are to blame for their woes.

does this not make sense? there would be no 'feminism' at all if men weren't the problem!!

thebigbiffo

Penn wrote: »

...despite them disproving your stance.

also, please show me where anything was 'disproved' - they proved nothing. they stated something alright, but there was no effort or invitation for me to clarify my position, as i've done above.

anncoates

thebigbiffo wrote: »

Why should this be a problem? dr.b is a moderator and this is the feedback thread. it's more than relevant to my grievance (in fact, most of the reason i started this thread) - so it's not 'personal'...

It's a private communication between yourself and another boards user and as such, rude and contrary to the spirit of the community to post it unless you have permission.

Jerrica

thebigbiffo wrote: »

anything else to add?

Your discussion style is fairly aggressive. That probably doesn't help either

Penn

thebigbiffo wrote: »

also, please show me where anything was 'disproved' - they proved nothing. they stated something alright, but there was no effort or invitation for me to clarify my position, as i've done above.

You said feminists blame all men. Two feminists said they don't blame men. You acknowledged them, but then said "I dont see a distinction between feminists. Feminism brought this ridiculous situation about, so therefore all feminists are to blame"

You attributed something to feminists. Two feminists said you were wrong. You didn't adjust your position.

thebigbiffo

anncoates wrote: »

It's a private communication between yourself and another boards user and as such, rude and contrary to the spirit of the community to post it unless you have permission.

dr.b is a moderator and this is a feedback thread which i assume is for all types of feedback. a rather obnoxious PM about a serious matter is relevant to the overall boards community as dr.b is a representative of authority within that community.

so i dont accept your point. this was not a personal exchange.

Jerrica wrote: »

Your discussion style is fairly aggressive. That probably doesn't help either

if i come across as aggressive i apologize - i think you may be mistaking passion for aggression in this case.

thebigbiffo

Penn wrote: »

You said feminists blame all men. Two feminists said they don't blame men. You acknowledged them, but then said "I dont see a distinction between feminists. Feminism brought this ridiculous situation about, so therefore all feminists are to blame"

You attributed something to feminists. Two feminists said you were wrong. You didn't adjust your position.

so i'm now supposed to change my definition of feminism because i'm told to on boards? i'm not allowed argue any definition or point if people dont agree with me?

i've explained above my position. please explain yours?

you firmly believe that a statement from an anonymous user should be enough for me to backtrack on my entire debating position (what feminism as a whole stands for)?

i went on to acknowledge there may be a distinction between feminism and radical feminism but you're not taking that into account so as to support your moderator either. no major surprise.

this entire situation reeks.

Micky Dolenz

thebigbiffo wrote: »

dr.b is a moderator and this is a feedback thread which i assume is for all types of feedback. a rather obnoxious PM about a serious matter is relevant to the overall boards community as dr.b is a representative of authority within that community.

so i dont accept your point. this was not a personal exchange.

You are wrong.

Taken from boards FAQ

Private message conversations in relation to the topic at hand are ok to publish in the Dispute Resolution Forum in an attempt to resolve an issue. This is contrary to normal Boards.ie Guidelines that permission be sought before publication of any PMs sent or received.

This thread should be in the Help Desk forum also.

thebigbiffo

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You are wrong.

Taken from boards FAQ



This thread should be in the Help Desk forum also.

as an expert in boards rules, i accepted dr.b's advice in opening a thread in feedback if i've a problem.

as this was certainly a dispute, i should have been directed to dispute resolution instead yes? meaning i wasn't wrong to post the PM, i was given the wrong direction on where to resolve the issue?

jesus you guys really do all circle the wagons dontcha? all quick to get back with smart replies and easy to win points, but not so quick to look into the real problems.

Morag

Yup feminists are all about smashing patriarchy, but they are not about smashing men, that's misandry. You seem to have the two confused.

Smashing patriarchy will also do away with the crap that men have to be strong, not cry, can't care for kids and can't be held to blame for their actions when they have a few drinks and see an attractive young lady in a short skirt.

P.S. men are feminists too

thebigbiffo

jesus I'M a feminist by many definitions! I agree with complete equality!

the discussion on that thread at the moment is EXACTLY where i was going with my point and what i'm trying to get across here: how can anybody define 'feminism' these days? my point of view is that feminism is in itself inherently sexist because it works for just one side, yet trying to articulate it got me threatened with a 'loooooooooong' ban.

Dades

thebigbiffo wrote: »

as an expert in boards rules, i accepted dr.b's advice in opening a thread in feedback if i've a problem.

as this was certainly a dispute, i should have been directed to dispute resolution instead yes? meaning i wasn't wrong to post the PM, i was given the wrong direction on where to resolve the issue?

DR is for users who have received a ban or an infraction, so no, you shouldn't have posted there. Accordingly, you were out of order posting that PM from dr.bollocko.

I suspect the reason you were threatened with a ban (a loooooong one) is down to your history. You've served 5 bans already (and received two cards) from After Hours which labels you - correctly - as a timesink for the moderators. That's the reputation you've earned, and one you'll have to deal with.

Madam_X

thebigbiffo wrote: »

so i'm now supposed to change my definition of feminism because i'm told to on boards? i'm not allowed argue any definition or point if people dont agree with me?

i've explained above my position. please explain yours?

you firmly believe that a statement from an anonymous user should be enough for me to backtrack on my entire debating position (what feminism as a whole stands for)?

i went on to acknowledge there may be a distinction between feminism and radical feminism but you're not taking that into account so as to support your moderator either. no major surprise.

this entire situation reeks.

But your definition was wrong. And you even admitted that by backtracking later. Saying "I WILL blame all feminists" is just needlessly inflammatory.

Contrary to popular belief, feminists aren't a homogenous group - whatsoever. Nor do many people who hold some feminist (or perceived feminist views - sometimes they're just humanitarian/egalitarian but because they're to do with women specifically, the F word gets thrown into the mix) views define themselves as feminists, preferring not to be any "ist".

Taltos

Not clear what you are looking for here?

As above your posts (maybe unintentionally) are coming across as very aggressive. Pretty much without exception the posters above have tried to point out in a constructive manner where they think you have gone wrong, so for example copying the PM - all with the intent to help you before you earn yourself a ban. Instead of recognising this or accepting some onus of responsibility your response was "circle the wagons", effectively dismissing all advice in a very passive-aggressive manner.

The best advice I can give you is to step away for a day or two.
Come back - re-read your thread, the PMs and this thread and please consider what/how you post again or how you want to proceed with how you feel you were treated on the original thread.

We are all pretty much volunteers here doing the best we can, either as mods or as active contributors (which many of the mods once were and hopefully still are), none of us need or enjoy flaming insults, and when I read posts like that it is extremely difficult to remain calm and clear, now maybe that is what you are looking for - a reaction. And if that is the case (hope not) then you might want to consider if your contributions are really adding to the Boards group or instead detracting from it.

In the meantime I just dug this out of the site FAQ at the bottom of each page (appealing a moderator decision, not the only route but a useful one).

thebigbiffo

Dades wrote: »

DR is for users who have received a ban or an infraction, so no, you shouldn't have posted there. Accordingly, you were out of order posting that PM from dr.bollocko.

I suspect the reason you were threatened with a ban (a loooooong one) is down to your history. You've served 5 bans already (and received two cards) from After Hours which labels you - correctly - as a timesink for the moderators. That's the reputation you've earned, and one you'll have to deal with.

Ah, so now we're at the crux of it - I've been labeled, so unlike normal posters I'm going to thrown out of discussions quicker and with next to no reason.

I came here hoping that someone could see my point of view, but of course that would mean mods having to be critical of other mods. My bad, we all know that doesn't happen.

Dr.b just told me I'm spoiling for a fight basically, but I only wanted some type of justice, and it's more than evident to me I won't get that. I'll respond to the post below and we'll leave it there shall we.

thebigbiffo

Taltos wrote: »

Not clear what you are looking for here?

As above your posts (maybe unintentionally) are coming across as very aggressive. Pretty much without exception the posters above have tried to point out in a constructive manner where they think you have gone wrong, so for example copying the PM - all with the intent to help you before you earn yourself a ban. Instead of recognising this or accepting some onus of responsibility your response was "circle the wagons", effectively dismissing all advice in a very passive-aggressive manner.

The best advice I can give you is to step away for a day or two.
Come back - re-read your thread, the PMs and this thread and please consider what/how you post again or how you want to proceed with how you feel you were treated on the original thread.

We are all pretty much volunteers here doing the best we can, either as mods or as active contributors (which many of the mods once were and hopefully still are), none of us need or enjoy flaming insults, and when I read posts like that it is extremely difficult to remain calm and clear, now maybe that is what you are looking for - a reaction. And if that is the case (hope not) then you might want to consider if your contributions are really adding to the Boards group or instead detracting from it.

In the meantime I just dug this out of the site FAQ at the bottom of each page (appealing a moderator decision, not the only route but a useful one).

Did not see this post before posting what is now above.

I will outline respond later with a clearer head because I really feel I've been treated unfairly

Dades

thebigbiffo wrote: »

Ah, so now we're at the crux of it - I've been labeled, so unlike normal posters I'm going to thrown out of discussions quicker and with next to no reason.

I came here hoping that someone could see my point of view, but of course that would mean mods having to be critical of other mods. My bad, we all know that doesn't happen.

Dr.b just told me I'm spoiling for a fight basically, but I only wanted some type of justice, and it's more than evident to me I won't get that. I'll respond to the post below and we'll leave it there shall we.

Ah I see, it's everyone else's fault.

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I will outline respond later with a clearer head because I really feel I've been treated unfairly

If you want to really take it further, then take this complaint to Helpdesk where it really belongs. The relevant CMods will have a look.

You've already got your feedback here.