Marathon 4hrs (ish)

Colostomy Bag

I completed the Connemarathon on Sunday in 4h:40 - this was my second road marathon (after DCM 2012 4h:28). I had previously done the Mourne Way Marathon last year but that's the lot marathon-wise, so to speak. I am over 40 and have taken up running in the last 3 years.

First of all, I think I underestimated the difficulty of the Connemara route (even though I had done a reccie of the 2nd half 2 weeks previous to the race just to see what I was letting myself in for). The wind was nasty and the undulating terrain didn't help either. I was absolutely baked by the end of it. I had hoped to keep an approximate 10k per hour pace most of the way through but just couldn't maintain it (I did manage not to stop running once though, which was also a goal of mine). It is a great learning experience I have to say and it is a tough race; much, much harder than DCM imho.

I had certainly done more training than I had for DCM so was hoping with some increased fitness to get a time around the same as DCM (I had read on here that you could add approx 20 mins to your time for the Connemara route).

I would really like to get close to 4hrs for the DCM this year - is that a big ask taking 25/30 mins off the same route 12 months later? I am currently running 3 times per week, totalling about 40k.
Also wondering what I should be concentrating on, if anything? Just keep training I guess? Any good training plans/advice for my level would be most welcome.

hardCopy

I did DCM in 4:28 in 2011 and hit 3:52 for DCM 2012 so it should be well doable.

I worked off the Hal Higdon Intermediate 1 plan for 2012.

Best of luck

fleck

40k a week should mean you're not too badly off stamina wise, what kind times have you done for 10k or half marathon ?
Also did you taper correctly, you said you ran half the course two weeks beforehand was that at full effort?

Colostomy Bag

Hardcopy - that sounds encouraging, I will check that out. Thanks.


Fleck -My 10k pb is 50:44, haven't really tried a PB half marathon but I did do it in 2h:01 about a month ago which I would say I currently couldn't improve upon. Not sure if I tapered correctly, I reckon it was at more or less full effort, but I didn't run for the last week before the CM.

rom

Went from 4:29 DCM 2011 to 3:18 DCM 2012.

Firstly your question is incorrect. You ask is it possible in a year but going off your calculations your equilvent marathon time would be 4:20 ish now. So you are looking to improve by 20+ mins in 6 months rather than 28 mins in a year. Now you improved by 8 mins in six months with not too bad mileage implies you have weight to lose, are training incorrectly or have some sort of medical condition that prevents you running (which is less likely) or a combination. Once you identify what is wrong then you need to improve that examine that area and see how it can be improved.

I can tell you one thing for certain that you will not achieve it this year unless you change one of the variables outlined above.

rom

Colostomy Bag wrote: »

Hardcopy - that sounds encouraging, I will check that out. Thanks.


Fleck -My 10k pb is 50:44, haven't really tried a PB half marathon but I did do it in 2h:01 about a month ago which I would say I currently couldn't improve upon. Not sure if I tapered correctly, I reckon it was at more or less full effort, but I didn't run for the last week before the CM.

The 10k PB suggest a marathon time of 3:58 according to Macmillian but you are some way off that. At what pace relative to marathon pace do you run your easy and long slow runs at ?

btw: you wouldn't think your 40+ with a name like that

Colostomy Bag

I wasn't doing many 20k plus runs up until beginning of March, so in fact my weekly distance was probably more like 25 to 30k until about 6 weeks before the CM (about 1x15k weekly hill run included in that). I am not overweight. I was always trying to run the 20k runs faster than marathon pace if I could....

macinalli

Couple of things stand out to me here:
1. You ran all the way in Connemara, but still came in with 4.40. To me that seems just wrong, as from what I've seen (and done!), most people around that time end up doing a run/walk from a long way out. If you run it all, then you should be capable of getting close to 4hrs.
2. 25-30k weekly mileage til 6 weeks out - that's just not enough for a marathon. Realistically that should be your weekend LSR, not your total weekly mileage.
3. You suggest that your weekend runs were 20k, and you were doing them faster than marathon pace? This is just wrong! You need to (i) gradually increase the distance and (ii) do them slower. There's lots of threads here about the importance of long slow running for marathons - worth a read.

I'd say that the fact you can run 4.40 without stopping suggests that you have the mental toughness for a good marathon, but the training program needs some change.

rom

Colostomy Bag wrote: »

I wasn't doing many 20k plus runs up until beginning of March, so in fact my weekly distance was probably more like 25 to 30k until about 6 weeks before the CM (about 1x15k weekly hill run included in that). I am not overweight. I was always trying to run the 20k runs faster than marathon pace if I could....

I have yet to see a training plan that says you should run LSR faster than marathon pace. Training your body to burn fat as a fuel is the single goal of LSRs for your marathon. It is generally recommended that you run LSRs at 60-90 secs slower than MP. Mine were all done at 90s slower from DCM 2012. Now thats 60-90 secs slower than MP not projected marathon pace. I mean current marathon pace. I used HR as a guide here so I kept the same avg HR throughout the plan but I naturally got faster at the LSRs so I went from 10mins/mile to about 9mins per mile over a few months. For me that was my accurately measured max (not online calculator) - 50 beats. Since then this effort has come down to sub 8 min/mile.

More info here http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf and further info on letsrun

+ 1 that your mileage is very very low.

BTW the exact same question is asked once or twice a week on here. People get the same answer and about 1 in a 100 take it on board.

fleck

Your race pace seems to be dropping significantly from 10k to marathon. I'd suggest looking up a half marathon training plan and follow it as accurately as possible, this'll give you a better guide to what you can achieve over 26 miles and help bridge the pace gap.

ger664

Colostomy Bag wrote: »

I am not overweight.

That may well be the case but your body will thank you when it has 7 pounds less to haul around the place every week when you are running 30-40 miles.

You can always put it back on after you get your Sub 4 Marathon.

ecoli

Alot of assumptions and dismissive comments around here the OP could get the wrong impression about being "helpful"

In terms of training I think if you plan on getting under the 4 hours the mileage increase will be paramount. With majority of relatively new runners (less the 3-5 years) endurance is usually going to be one of the biggest issues and as such it is something which needs the greatest amount of work. This means lots of easy miles

Easy running actually helps the body become more efficient meaning that you are able to sustain efforts for longer as you progress. They also work on tendon strength meaning that you have more power in the muscles to allow you to increase the power in muscle movements (simply put can make you faster)

Hard efforts have their place but to be honest the most bang for you buck will come from building up your strength and you will get this from increasing the mileage and keeping it relatively slow

My suggestion would be as follows:

1) slowly and progressively build up your mileage. Dont just put this all into your long run at the weekend but try to spread this out over the week (i.e 1k to each run per week). In terms of the long run I would say aim to try carry out more medium length runs back to back at the weekends in the earlier stages of the plan and as you get stonger then you can worry about building the long run up to 2 and 3 hour runs

2) work on frequency and try to build up the amount of days you run. Start at 3 per week then after 2-3 weeks add another short recovery run and start building that mileage up slightly and then when it matches up with other easy runs add a 5th. You will find that your body begins to recover quicker and it almost becomes second nature

3) If you wish to keep a bit of pace in the training have one shorter run during the week between MP and Easy pace (should be a steady effort).This does not have to be long (something like 5k at this effort at first and build it up with average weekly mileage)

With regards to food be sensible stick to what you feel works for you. Dont get too hung up on it and just make sure you are not doing anything to excess and you should be fine. People get too hung up on the minor details to often to the point where they are blinded from the main focus

To answer your original question 4 hours is very do able and you are in a good position to do it as long as you are honest with yourself and put in the work.

Best of luck with it

This thread can be a useful tool with many around this level with plenty of advice on all aspects of training

rom

ecoli wrote: »

Alot of assumptions and dismissive comments around here the OP could get the wrong impression about being "helpful"

Maybe so but we reply cause we want to help. If I had someone tell me how it is then I wouldn't have wasted 18 months in mindless training when I started.