Short, too much or just about right?

PARlance

I was playing with a mate recently and he turned to me and said...albeit, in more colourful language
"Do you ever hit it past the hole with your irons?"
(he did ask if he could offer some words of wisdom mid round before he proceeded)

I had a quick think about it but I couldn't remember any decent number of shots during recent rounds where I had hit it past the hole.
I was hitting the ball well on the day in question, I just wasn't hitting the right club well..... I rarely hit the right club.

It seems daft that I hadn't noticed it before, and I know (think) it's an easy enough fix.

I'm thinking doing some or all of these will help:

1. Have been looking at getting a GPS watch
2. Practice more on the course, get to know my distances with each club better... (Can't really judge this the same at the range)
3. Drop the macho sh*t, not saying I go around beating my chest, but I definitely have a little look at what playing partners hit when it shouldn't matter at all.

Just wondering if it was a problem others have had and conquered?

And if so, what was the best way you got out of the habit.

Or are you still someone that leaves it on the short side more often than not?


I was having a think back and most of the lads I play with would fall into the too short category.
I started taking an extra club on the holes after that... and I was still coming up short....

blue note

It depends on the hole, but generally if I'm unsure I'll go with the smaller club. Most of the hole destroying danger is behind the hole on my course (and with raised greens it's easy to land on the slope off the back and bounce into it). The obvious exception is if there's water to carry I'll often be far too safe in getting over it!

Mr. Larson

I'm usually past the hole in general. I think I've a tendency to be a bit over aggressive tbh. Of course there are exceptions where the trouble is short/left/right in which case I might bail a little, eliminating a double, if going well. I also try to leave myself an up-hill putt, especially in the summer on slopey greens!

spacecoyote

Ha, this was one of the big topics that was brought up with me in Carton House at the Full Day Clinic at the weekend. He asked that exact question and its a fair point I think.

I imagine its something men are more guilty than then women, I'd say men almost always go down a club rather than go up (I know I've been guilty of it planty of times)

As the pro said, an average green is about 30 yards long, give or take, which is about a 2-3 club difference for Average Joe golfer. Essentially he was arguing that most people think of their "Pure" shot, ie, when I catch my 7 Iron perfect, I'll hit it 150 yards, the marker on the course says 150 yards, so I've gotta hit my 7 Iron. On the average course most of the difficulty tends to be in front of the green, so why not hit your 6/5 iron clean, chances are you'll hold the green even if you go past the hole, so you're giving yourself a putt. Whereas if you're short, at best you've a straight chip, at worst you've a ball in the water/sand.

Its something I'm going to be looking at doing a lot more consciously going forwards. I guess you've got to remember to commit, whatever club you select, no point taking a longer club & making a tame swing as you end up with the same net result.

dar_cool

I recently have a new set of irons so only getting to grips with them now, but when you see how far the pros hit it, i know they have different degrees for irons than we do but holy ****!!! most markers on the course are to the front and youd want to add 10 yards+ onto that!! I get all mixed up when the distance is in metres!!

soundsham

Would be more important to leave the ball under the hole if possible than hitting it past

FixdePitchmark

This is fairly basic - but has worked well for me over last month.

Front of green 52
Back of green 56
100 yards.

I know that is different for every player - but I am now looking at flag position. I have two clubs for most greens.

It sounds simple - but what it has done for me, is made me look at what place of the green the flag is on. Amazing how I did not do that all the time before - was more a flag man. Now Front or back.

As others have said , if you know a course well you know what part of green is best - not at that level yet

Ben1977

Great topic. I've found that if your short your generally in trouble. Bought a laser and has made a huge difference. I don't get into trouble as much on the front side now. I'm close to pin high but not alway on the green.
So I've got over the water, missed the bunkers front left and right.

Also we Irish miss judge the wind and how it effects our shot.

Uncle Ben

I think it was Lee Trevino or Freddy Couples who said that the safest place to stand on the course when playing with amateurs is behind the 'pin', cos they always leave it short:)

m r c

Just knock it on with the driver, simples.


Ha. I bought a GPS this year and it has been literally the best bit of kit I've bought. I play mainly links golf and I'm a high h/c so when I'm on the fairway I take the yardage from the fnt/ctr knowing if I clip it well ill be on the back and anything less comes up short depending on strike from where I'll be putting.

On parkland I'd probably take a different tactic but you can work it out to suit your own game.

I now have real life yardages too not from range balls off mats.
Just a caution though some people hate them so they're not for everyone but I'm v happy with my purchase.

Rikand

Played 6 holes this evening and I was just thinking about them while reading this post.

with my approach shots

1st hole 8 iron - short ( 20 feet )
2nd hole 8 iron - pin high ( 15 feet left of the flag )
3rd hole 7 iron - long ( 40 feet )
16th hole 5 wood - short ( 30 feet )
17th hole pw - long ( 15 feet )
18th hole 8 iron - pin high (10 yards left of pin).

A nice even spread - but its interesting because I never even thought about it before or where my balls were finishing in general - Playing 18 holes on thursday, so I must remember to check what I'm doing when I'm out there

PARlance

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

Played 6 holes this evening and I was just thinking about them while reading this post.

with my approach shots

1st hole 8 iron - short ( 20 feet )
2nd hole 8 iron - pin high ( 15 feet left of the flag )
3rd hole 7 iron - long ( 40 feet )
16th hole 5 wood - short ( 30 feet )
17th hole pw - long ( 15 feet )
18th hole 8 iron - pin high (10 yards left of pin).

A nice even spread - but its interesting because I never even thought about it before or where my balls were finishing in general - Playing 18 holes on thursday, so I must remember to check what I'm doing when I'm out there

I still measure my approach shots in yards... What's this feet thing you talk of

GreeBo

spacecoyote wrote: »

H Essentially he was arguing that most people think of their "Pure" shot, ie, when I catch my 7 Iron perfect, I'll hit it 150 yards, the marker on the course says 150 yards, so I've gotta hit my 7 Iron.

I think this is it in a nut-shell.
We calculate everything based on the perfect shot. We hit a perfect shot 1-20 times (Nicklaus said he was happy if he hit 7 perfect shots a round)

Its rare the trouble is at the back, though often it can leave a tricky down hill putt, but again, only if you take the extra club AND hit it perfectly.

I often play with a half set and always try to hit the longer club smoothly rather than force the shorter club (I always take the "wrong" half set!)
I've rarely been left thinking "damn, I wish I had hit the 7 instead of the 6" but frequently thought the opposite.

In any case, if you hit a perfect shot and it goes long, who cares, you just hit a perfect shot! Far more often than not you will mis**** it and, if you took more club, still be putting.

Topper Harley

I'd hate to make anyone's life easier so I'll just point out that on top of this there's also the issue of wind (direction & speed) and elevation.

Wind is more frustrating. It's been fairly windy of late which has being playing havoc with my judgement. You could be with the wind on one hole and take a club less and go long. Then, next hole, same distance but against the wind, take two clubs more and be short.

But having said all this, I'd generally prefer to go long rather than short as it's more of a confidence boost. I'd rather hit 6 iron and think if I hit it flush it'll go a few yards long and an imperfect hit should be pin high. So you either hit a perfect shot or end up with a good result...win win.

The alternative is to hit 7 iron and require a perfect hit to get a good result and risk a bad hit with a bad result. This then leads to increased pressure and frustration.

Topper Harley

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I still measure my approach shots in yards... What's this feet thing you talk of

I don't know about you but I measure everything on the green in feet. Well, guess rather than measure.

PARlance

Topper Harley wrote: »

I don't know about you but I measure everything on the green in feet. Well, guess rather than measure.

On the green you say... That's a different story. When I start hitting them I'll start measuring/guessing in feet.

Back to the opening post, the funny thing is that I took his advice on board and clubbed up 2 more than normal on a few holes.
With a "big thick head on me" as they say at home, I swung away.
Ended up at the back of the green or just off it for these.
I found myself looking over at him.... thinking away to myself.... There you go, that proves you wro.... Oh crap, he was right... It doesn't matter, still be thick with him...
Went back to under clubbing on the next hole then

For Paws

Over the years I've spent spoiling a good walk, the recurring theme has been the difficulty most folk have judging distance.
Could never understand why guys were off distance with well struck shots. I'd say to them 'what did you hit ?' and they would say whatever number club. After a round or so I'd know what club they should be taking, and yet when I'd ask they'd say a different number. So it was clear that they couldn't consistently choose the correct club for the distance req'd.

Allied to this was having some idea of what distance you average with a particular club, again a regular failing.

Recently, with GPS & Range finders the problem seems to be solvable. But the guys with the latest GPS gizmo is usually the guy with the least problem judging distance. Judging distance, especially with distance markers available, is a learnt skill. It's not something you either have or have not. So why not try & learn it.

How confidently can you swing if you're unsure that your swinging the right club ?

Gmpd

dar_cool wrote: »

I recently have a new set of irons so only getting to grips with them now, but when you see how far the pros hit it, i know they have different degrees for irons than we do but holy ****!!! most markers on the course are to the front and youd want to add 10 yards+ onto that!! I get all mixed up when the distance is in metres!!

A mate of mine gave me a handy little tip for distance when it came to yards v meters if it 200 meters you just add the first 2 numbers as in this case 20 to the over overall number and you get 220 yards might be a yard or so out but close enough! Oh and I near always leave it short of the green if I miss the green which is often

Topper Harley

Gmpd wrote: »

A mate of mine gave me a handy little tip for distance when it came to yards v meters if it 200 meters you just add the first 2 numbers as in this case 20 to the over overall number and you get 220 yards might be a yard or so out but close enough! Oh and I near always leave it short of the green if I miss the green which is often

I heard something similar just the other day, I was told to add on 10%.

I just tested adding on the first two numbers compared to the actual conversion and found that it was never out by more than 1.5 yards. And even then, it over estimates it (very slightly) which it would appear would be a good thing for the likes of us.

newport2

Something that improved my game was, when I'm not going for the pin, say outside 120 yards, I always choose the most club I know I cannot hit past the green.

So say I have 180 to the back of the green, I choose a 5 iron. I know if I flush a 5 it will go 175, but never much more. So if I flush it, I'm towards the back of the green, if I hit it ok I'll be in the middle of the green and if I hit it very poorly I'll be at the front (once I hit it straight of course). My greens in regulation nearly doubled when I took this approach.

alxmorgan

newport2 wrote: »

Something that improved my game was, when I'm not going for the pin, say outside 120 yards, I always choose the most club I know I cannot hit past the green.

So say I have 180 to the back of the green, I choose a 5 iron. I know if I flush a 5 it will go 175, but never much more. So if I flush it, I'm towards the back of the green, if I hit it ok I'll be in the middle of the green and if I hit it very poorly I'll be at the front (once I hit it straight of course). My greens in regulation nearly doubled when I took this approach.

That is a very interesting approach. I never thought of it like that
Must give that a go.

thank you Sensei

loadwire

Good thread. I'm definitely guilty of taking my 'perfect strike' distance for clubbing, when in reality I hit very few that well in a round.

I've become better at it with the short irons, mainly because I'm aware that I'm very short with them. I know it's a struggle for me to hit a PW more than 100 yards so anything longer and I take a 9-iron, don't tend to leave too many short from that range unless it's a really bad strike. I'm still guilty from 7-iron downwards of kidding myself though.

I'm taking lessons at the moment for the first time and on the range I've been getting a longer, lower ball flight with my irons. Haven't gone out on the course for a month or so but when I do go out I'm going to stick to my 'old' yardages and see how I get on.

hades

A GPS will sort out a lot of that, since i got mine i'm a lot more consistent with GIR. You look at a green, trouble all around the front and it might be 130m to the front, with a front pin, but 150m to the back. Club up and take all the trouble of the equation.

It is slightly a manly thing aswell, one of my better round i just hit what i was comfortable with. Where my playing partners were hitting 9's and PW's i even went back to a 7, swung freely and would find the heart of the green. Personally, i always find that if i try to force things i end up with a pulled shot.

Great thing about the GPS aswell is that you can go for the flags with a bit more education, as folks have said, those greens can be pretty large. So its nicer to go with a 10 or 15ft putt rather than a 45ft one.

Mr. Larson

"I'll just tickle up an easy 5i instead of bursting a 7i..." followed by best strike of the day into a gorse bush over the back of the green.

GreeBo

Topper Harley wrote: »

I heard something similar just the other day, I was told to add on 10%.

I just tested adding on the first two numbers compared to the actual conversion and found that it was never out by more than 1.5 yards. And even then, it over estimates it (very slightly) which it would appear would be a good thing for the likes of us.

Gmpd wrote: »

A mate of mine gave me a handy little tip for distance when it came to yards v meters if it 200 meters you just add the first 2 numbers as in this case 20 to the over overall number and you get 220 yards might be a yard or so out but close enough! Oh and I near always leave it short of the green if I miss the green which is often

Its the same thing
first two numbers amounts to 10%...

I'm a Metres man and my course is in M which is nice.
However as Grandpa Simpson once said:

""The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it." "

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

Its the same thing
first two numbers amounts to 10%...

Would you not round up if the third digit is 5 or more????

If I have 155 meters, I'll add 16 onto to it, giving me 171 yards...
Then I'll hit a 7 iron and leave myself 30 yards short

But I then console myself with the fact the it's only 27 meters short

Ilik Urgee

newport2 wrote: »

Something that improved my game was, when I'm not going for the pin, say outside 120 yards, I always choose the most club I know I cannot hit past the green.

So say I have 180 to the back of the green, I choose a 5 iron. I know if I flush a 5 it will go 175, but never much more. So if I flush it, I'm towards the back of the green, if I hit it ok I'll be in the middle of the green and if I hit it very poorly I'll be at the front (once I hit it straight of course). My greens in regulation nearly doubled when I took this approach.

I've used this for a while now and it definitely helps. If I am wayward or short at least I know what trouble I'm in as opposed to being long and maybe having to play a provisional.

I'm more often than not short on approach for this reason meaning I have to rely heavily on the short game, which is grand on a good day but if the short sticks ain't playing ball I may as well pack up.
I much prefer back pins as opposed to tight front pins,as I hate passing out the flag. More than necessary anyway:pac:

spacecoyote

I suppose another branch off of this is, when do you switch the attitude.

Say, you have a 190yd approach, generally for me, I'm happy to hit the green, so if I hit for the back and wind up front/mid or back I'm relatively happy, but if I'm 50 yrds to the pin, then I want to hit the ball 50 yrds to the pin, not hit at the back/mid/front.

I guess its subjective really isn't it. Would you say, when I'm hitting 8 iron down I'm play precision at the flag golf, but 7-iron up I'm playing percentage, hit the green golf?

blue note

I'm going to confidently proclaim that I'm not one to overestimate how far I hit it constantly and hit all my approach shots unintentionally short. If I'm in between clubs and there's water before a green or a large bunker I'll probably go with the longer one and if not I'll probably go with the shorter, because I find if you land just beyond the green you can land on a downslope kicking your ball 20 metres on. Also, I find there are often trees / bunkers / other things you don't want to end up in beyond the greens.

Rikand

fear of the unknown.

Yeah I see whats short and its a bunker, but at least I know where I stand with a bunker. God only knows what will happen to the ball and me if I hit it long!

levitronix

Never really paid much attention to whether I short or past the pin, played nine today and I was past on 6 out the 8 greens I hit today. But no wind today really helped

GreeBo

spacecoyote wrote: »

I suppose another branch off of this is, when do you switch the attitude.

Say, you have a 190yd approach, generally for me, I'm happy to hit the green, so if I hit for the back and wind up front/mid or back I'm relatively happy, but if I'm 50 yrds to the pin, then I want to hit the ball 50 yrds to the pin, not hit at the back/mid/front.

I guess its subjective really isn't it. Would you say, when I'm hitting 8 iron down I'm play precision at the flag golf, but 7-iron up I'm playing percentage, hit the green golf?

When your bad shots with a club dont put you in a worse position than your "perfect" shots with 1 club more I guess.

Its different for everyone based on ability. Big Phil for example will go for any pin anywhere with a wedge, you and I probably wouldnt go for the pin thats 6 feet from the waters edge.

whizbang

When yo Pro's are finished chattin'..
Us amateurs use a shorter club for a very good reason, and its because a short straight iron in the fairway is always better than a long shank into the sh*t.

The average course (more often than not) the fairway ends at the green. Out the back is the next teebox, water, clubhouse etc.

Keep it safe, wedge it up, one putt gets the points every time.

GreeBo

whizbang wrote: »

When yo Pro's are finished chattin'..
Us amateurs use a shorter club for a very good reason, and its because a short straight iron in the fairway is always better than a long shank into the sh*t.

The average course (more often than not) the fairway ends at the green. Out the back is the next teebox, water, clubhouse etc.

Keep it safe, wedge it up, one putt gets the points every time.

Its for exactly this reason that most of the trouble is at the front though...because thats were most amateurs end up...

Topper Harley

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Would you not round up if the third digit is 5 or more????

If I have 155 meters, I'll add 16 onto to it, giving me 171 yards...
Then I'll hit a 7 iron and leave myself 30 yards short

But I then console myself with the fact the it's only 27 meters short

By the time I'd have all this calculated I'd be getting warnings about slow play.