Punchestown World Series Hurdle

kencoo

Solwhit, being UK champion, will probable be is shoe in for this or are there other contenders? Would he beat Quevega?

Backstreet Moyes

NO

Slattsy

YES

Johner

He beat her before and he'll beat her again.

Colonel Sanders

How many horses have won at the Cheltenham, Aintree & Punchestown festivals in the same season?

Is Istabraq the only one? The shortest of short heads denied Moscow Flyer in 2005 but I don't know of any others

mountai

The way Solwhit won at Aintree , was the best I"ve ever seen him win. Carberry said after the race that he was twice the horse he was at Cheltenham. Charles Byrnes would not risk running him unless he feels that the horse is up to it . Significantly , within a couple of days of Cheltenham, The trainer said that he had never seen a horse come out of a race so good . I will certainly back him at Punchestown should he run. Best horse in the race by a country mile. For " A wreck of a horse" !!!!!

SRFC

Prices here Solwhit even money.

Solwhit 1
Quevega 2
Reve De Sivola 8
Holywell 10
Thousand Stars 10
Menorah 12
Dressedtothenines 14
Fiveforthree 14
Celestial Halo 16
Grands Crus 16
So Young 16
Zaidpour 20
Dedigout 25
Medinas 25
Captain Sunshine 33
Mikael Dhaguenet 33
Mount Benbulben 33
Marasonnien

At 2 to 1 ish ill be happy to have 200 on quevega. All going well ill be there to watch it. I'd be surprised if over 7 to 4 will be available on the day though, would be a grand price to back at too imo. Decent opportunity for quevega to show how good she is

kiers47

RoverJames wrote: »

At 2 to 1 ish ill be happy to have 200 on quevega. All going well ill be there to watch it. I'd be surprised if over 7 to 4 will be available on the day though, would be a grand price to back at too imo. Decent opportunity for quevega to show how good she is

I definitely agree that there is huge mileage in the 2/1. I'm just a little worried that she was done for toe a little bit turning for home in Cheltenham.
It's hard to believe really that people were saying there was a chance of her beating BB if he came here when he was fit now solwhit is favourite a full point shorter to beat her.
I would probably go 6/4 the 2

...... She'd be no banker but 7to4 ... 2to1 ish :eek:

ste2010

Reckon Solwhit might not even run if connections are serious about the horse for next season. 3 x G1 3m races in 6weeks,
That would hardly be good for a horse of his calibre. Anyone hear how he came out of the race the other day?
Quevegas run in Cheltenham would suggest to me she is probably even better suited to 3miles given how she picked up again when asked

Slattsy

ste2010 wrote: »

Reckon Solwhit might not even run if connections are serious about the horse for next season. 3 x G1 3m races in 6weeks,
That would hardly be good for a horse of his calibre. Anyone hear how he came out of the race the other day?
Quevegas run in Cheltenham would suggest to me she is probably even better suited to 3miles given how she picked up again when asked

His last run was basically a canter round
Solwhits style of racing means he doesnt have too hard a race.


Also, i dont think Quevega has beat much. The mares races are terrible, her aside. Solwhit has much the better form.

RichieLawlor

kiers47 wrote: »

I definitely agree that there is huge mileage in the 2/1. I'm just a little worried that she was done for toe a little bit turning for home in Cheltenham.

This isnt true, she almost tipped up at the top of the hill and still won. Ruby said in his post race interview he would have won easy.

hawkeyethenoo

kiers47 wrote: »

I definitely agree that there is huge mileage in the 2/1. I'm just a little worried that she was done for toe a little bit turning for home in Cheltenham.
It's hard to believe really that people were saying there was a chance of her beating BB if he came here when he was fit now solwhit is favourite a full point shorter to beat her.
I would probably go 6/4 the 2

whoever said that was wrong. big bucks would crush her and hed crush solwhit.

quevega is a great mare but she beats nothing in the mares race. and being honest in the 3 miler at punchestown she hasnt beat much. all out to beat mourad one year. solwhit is a different beast altogether and he deserves to be fav based on the two runs this year. he looks like he shud have stepped to 3 miles long ago.

mdwexford

Solwhit should win easily.

Colonel Sanders

ste2010 wrote: »

3 x G1 3m races in 6weeks,

Is nobody else worried about this?

As I asked earlier is Istabraq the only horse to win at all 3 festivals?

jimjamcos

ste2010 wrote: »

Reckon Solwhit might not even run if connections are serious about the horse for next season. 3 x G1 3m races in 6weeks,
That would hardly be good for a horse of his calibre. Anyone hear how he came out of the race the other day?
Quevegas run in Cheltenham would suggest to me she is probably even better suited to 3miles given how she picked up again when asked

I'd be of the opposite opinion...that connections might want to make hay when the sun shines. They, more than anyone else, know how quickly things can change with injury etc and they'll want to get the best out of their brilliant horse while he's fit and well.

mdwexford

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Is nobody else worried about this?

As I asked earlier is Istabraq the only horse to win at all 3 festivals?

Is a bit of a worry for sure.

He won so easily though maybe it won't affect him.

Same goes for SS if he runs at Punchestown although he certainly had easy races.

Colonel Sanders

I'd certainly worry less about Sprinter Sacre as he's won both races easily & is an all time great, same as the aforementioned Istabraq & Moscow Flyer.

Had Solwhit not run at Aintree I'd fancy him to beat Quevega over 3m FWIW

Gringo180

If Solwhit runs anywhere near his best he will beat Quevega and beat her well.

Morgans

Solwhit huge value. Given the way she raced at cheltenham, and none from the ante post list jump out, I'd happy take on Quevega on the day without Solwhit.

the groutch

Fiveforthree e/w for me, the Coral Cup was his first race is two years, was staying on at the end so should relish 3 miles, and should come on a fair bit for the run

mountai

I was wondering when the Big Bucks absence would be mentioned. The way I look at is ---- You can only beat whats in front of you . To say that BBs would crush Solwhit is pure rubbish. Its well recognized that Hurricane Fly is a worthy Champion , and he never "Crushed" Solwhit. Its obvious that Solwhit is an inferior horse than HF over two miles. This should not diminish the stature of Solwhit in my opinion. I wonder how things would go if they raced over the longer distance. Another factor to consider is, the two year absence Solwhit had. He has far less mileage on the clock for a normal 9 year old, so could only be coming into his prime years now???.I have no doubt that "making hay" will not be a consideration when deciding to run the horse or not. His winnings to date have been more than a ten fold return on the initial investment , and the Top of the Hill boys are true sportsmen. Not a bad return for "Wreck of a horse"!!!!.

Morgans

Big Bucks never beat a horse as good as solwhit over three miles. (punchestowns looked good on occasion, and Grands Crus looked a horse going places)

I wouldnt take too short a price about him beating Solwhit, whose class over shorter distances and ability to change gear would have presented Big Bucks with something different to tackle.

You'd have to think that the way that Big Bucks dominated everything else that he would have it in his locker.

prettyboy81

I think Solwhit will nail the hat trick in a thrilling race with Quevega, I think the race will be decided by who can hold onto their horse the longest. Both like to be settled in & come off the pace.

Will Paul Carberry keep the ride or will Davy Russell get back on board? I'd be more comfortable backing Solwhit with Carberry on board given how he has rode him in last 2 Grade 1 races.

RichieLawlor

Morgans wrote: »

Given the way she raced at cheltenham.

I've read this 3 times now and clearly nobody has watched the mares hurdle at cheltenham. How was she suppose to races after being picked off the ground running down the hill. I'm amazed she won from there. And she won going away at the end.

Slattsy

She clipped heels at Cheltenham lads and almost came down. Ruby waited and composed her for a good 1/2 furlong before he made any attempt to move forward on it. One of his better rides really.

RichieLawlor

mountai wrote: »

I was wondering when the Big Bucks absence would be mentioned. The way I look at is ---- You can only beat whats in front of you . To say that BBs would crush Solwhit is pure rubbish. Its well recognized that Hurricane Fly is a worthy Champion , and he never "Crushed" Solwhit. Its obvious that Solwhit is an inferior horse than HF over two miles. This should not diminish the stature of Solwhit in my opinion. I wonder how things would go if they raced over the longer distance. Another factor to consider is, the two year absence Solwhit had. He has far less mileage on the clock for a normal 9 year old, so could only be coming into his prime years now???.I have no doubt that "making hay" will not be a consideration when deciding to run the horse or not. His winnings to date have been more than a ten fold return on the initial investment , and the Top of the Hill boys are true sportsmen. Not a bad return for "Wreck of a horse"!!!!.

Hurricane Fly already beat Solwhit over 2 and a half miles, I probably think at his peak HF would be champion over any distance. Mullins is considering taking him to France for the French CH over 3m1f

premierstone

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I've read this 3 times now and clearly nobody has watched the mares hurdle at cheltenham. How was she suppose to races after being picked off the ground running down the hill. I'm amazed she won from there. And she won going away at the end.

Very true, they way it has been portrayed its as if the horse is on its last legs, in many ways this years win was her most impressive, with the adversity as you have alluded to.

PS I still think Solwhit will beat her though, promises to be an absolute belter.

Morgans

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I've read this 3 times now and clearly nobody has watched the mares hurdle at cheltenham. How was she suppose to races after being picked off the ground running down the hill. I'm amazed she won from there. And she won going away at the end.

I dont think the trip caused nearly as much damage as you are saying. She was maybe 2l further back than Ruby would have wanted, but she was back on an even keel coming down the hill, and when asked took a long time to reel back the admittedly underestimated leader. It was by far, trip or not, the least impressive she has been at cheltenham.

Gringo180

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I've read this 3 times now and clearly nobody has watched the mares hurdle at cheltenham. How was she suppose to races after being picked off the ground running down the hill. I'm amazed she won from there. And she won going away at the end.

Watched it myself and she really did fly home and did very well to win from the position she was in, but lets be honest she beat a bunch of very ordinary horses.

Slattsy

Gringo180 wrote: »

Watched it myself and she really did fly home and did very well to win from the position she was in, but lets be honest she beat a bunch of very ordinary horses.

I call them tree's myself.

Gringo180

Slattsy wrote: »

I call them tree's myself.

Swincombe Flame 3 1/2 lenghts back in third is a handicapper at best, then we have a 66/1 & 100/1 finishing 4th and 5th.

Morgans

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/12-03-2013/cheltenham/result/550114/olbg-mares-hurdle-registered-as-the-david-nicholson-mares-hurdle-grade-2/video

Its there again.

Interference happens at the top of the hill. Lost 3l at a push.

It makes zero odds as to why she will or will not beat Solwhit. What disappointed me was the lack of speed to go with horses like Shadow Eile from 3 out to the run to the last. Took her an age to pick up, and stamina won her the race. Clearly the best mare in the race but the weakest field that she has faced. Would have been interesting to see where Annie Power would have finished against the same opposition.

Solwhit would have given that lot 10l and still won on the bridle, wihtout excuses. It was far far better horses that he was mocking last weekend.

RichieLawlor

Morgans wrote: »

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/12-03-2013/cheltenham/result/550114/olbg-mares-hurdle-registered-as-the-david-nicholson-mares-hurdle-grade-2/video

Its there again.

Interference happens at the top of the hill. Lost 3l at a push.

It makes zero odds as to why she will or will not beat Solwhit. What disappointed me was the lack of speed to go with horses like Shadow Eile from 3 out to the run to the last. Took her an age to pick up, and stamina won her the race. Clearly the best mare in the race but the weakest field that she has faced. Would have been interesting to see where Annie Power would have finished against the same opposition.

Solwhit would have given that lot 10l and still won on the bridle, wihtout excuses. It was far far better horses that he was mocking last weekend.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in the Solwhit camp as well but using that race as a stick to beat her is totally incorrect. But for the mishap she may have beat them on the bridle or perhaps it made no difference. But we don't know

Morgans

No, we can guess. Regardless of the interference, I dont think she would have been much more impressive. I wasnt happy with how she was travelling before the top of the hill. (i dont think its neccessary the case here, but often horses get unlucky out of a lack of tactical pace)

If she runs to that form again, Solwhit will eat her.

If you want to judge the quality of the races, ORs of those behind her that day: 126, 131, 137, 133, 130

Solwhit on saturday beat horses of 152, 158, 138, 145, 161, 161.

She needs to improve at least a stone for it to be a contest. She might do. Its easy to see why punters love Quevega.

droidman123

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Is nobody else worried about this?

As I asked earlier is Istabraq the only horse to win at all 3 festivals?

The great dawn run did, but not in the same year.

RichieLawlor

droidman123 wrote: »

The great dawn run did, but not in the same year.

You've missed the point completely

droidman123

RichieLawlor wrote: »

You've missed the point completely

Care to enlighten me?

the groutch

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Hurricane Fly already beat Solwhit over 2 and a half miles, I probably think at his peak HF would be champion over any distance. Mullins is considering taking him to France for the French CH over 3m1f

running him in a bog over 3 miles? Thousand Stars would make mincemeat of him (no pun intended).

ste2010

the groutch wrote: »

running him in a bog over 3 miles? Thousand Stars would make mincemeat of him (no pun intended).

Thousand stars sounds more like a flame grill half pounder to me

jimjamcos

the groutch wrote: »

running him in a bog over 3 miles? Thousand Stars would make mincemeat of him (no pun intended).

You're joking right?

hawkeyethenoo

mountai wrote: »

I was wondering when the Big Bucks absence would be mentioned. The way I look at is ---- You can only beat whats in front of you . To say that BBs would crush Solwhit is pure rubbish. Its well recognized that Hurricane Fly is a worthy Champion , and he never "Crushed" Solwhit. Its obvious that Solwhit is an inferior horse than HF over two miles. This should not diminish the stature of Solwhit in my opinion. I wonder how things would go if they raced over the longer distance. Another factor to consider is, the two year absence Solwhit had. He has far less mileage on the clock for a normal 9 year old, so could only be coming into his prime years now???.I have no doubt that "making hay" will not be a consideration when deciding to run the horse or not. His winnings to date have been more than a ten fold return on the initial investment , and the Top of the Hill boys are true sportsmen. Not a bad return for "Wreck of a horse"!!!!.

Big bucks is the greatest ever staying hurdler. hed beat solwhit the way he beat everyone else. solwhit would probably come there like voler la vedette did but big bucks would outstay him. solwhit is a fantasic grade 1 horse but he wouldnt have beaten big bucks in my opinion.

hawkeyethenoo

hurricane fly vs big bucks in the french champion hurdle that would be a sight( i know it will never ever happen) ruby would be on board the best staying hurdler ever.

RichieLawlor

droidman123 wrote: »

Care to enlighten me?

He means can it be done in the one year, is it possible to win at the 3 festivals within 6 weeks of each other.

Dawn Run is irrelevant to the point

droidman123

RichieLawlor wrote: »

He means can it be done in the one year, is it possible to win at the 3 festivals within 6 weeks of each other.

Dawn Run is irrelevant to the point

I,m in work on my phone, i hadnt read the previous pages on the thread.

Hulk Hands

Very hard to see a form line. The only one I can think of is through Smad Place running to the same level 2 years in a row. That line would see Quevega on top, although it's so sketchy you can't be confident.

There's question marks over both. Is Quevega as good as before? Can Solwhit win 3 grade 1's in 6 weeks?

I think the market spoke quite a bit about Quevega before the Mares race. The Mullins yard are very shrewd punters, yet there was little confidence behind her despite having what appeared to be zero opposition. That kind of told me that perhaps she was harder to get fit this year, and possibly not at her best. I think she should improve from that run.

At 9/4 it really has to be Quevega. She's going for her 4th title here and is as reliable as they come. We thought she might be declining last year and she beat VLV easy. Solwhit is classy but the 3 races in quick succesion, and the top class opponent makes me think he's opposable at Evens. Also, i'm a huge Carberry fan, but who would you rather, him or Ruby? Game of inches and all that. Purely a price decision, flip them and i'd be on Solwhit. That 9/4 won't last

Morgans

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Very hard to see a form line. The only one I can think of is through Smad Place running to the same level 2 years in a row. That line would see Quevega on top, although it's so sketchy you can't be confident.

There's question marks over both. Is Quevega as good as before? Can Solwhit win 3 grade 1's in 6 weeks?

I think the market spoke quite a bit about Quevega before the Mares race. The Mullins yard are very shrewd punters, yet there was little confidence behind her despite having what appeared to be zero opposition. That kind of told me that perhaps she was harder to get fit this year, and possibly not at her best. I think she should improve from that run.

At 9/4 it really has to be Quevega. She's going for her 4th title here and is as reliable as they come. We thought she might be declining last year and she beat VLV easy. Solwhit is classy but the 3 races in quick succesion, and the top class opponent makes me think he's opposable at Evens. Also, i'm a huge Carberry fan, but who would you rather, him or Ruby? Game of inches and all that. Purely a price decision, flip them and i'd be on Solwhit. That 9/4 won't last

Are you saying that Quevega on this years form would have replicated the form of Solwhit in the last month?

jimjamcos

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Very hard to see a form line. The only one I can think of is through Smad Place running to the same level 2 years in a row. That line would see Quevega on top, although it's so sketchy you can't be confident.

There's question marks over both. Is Quevega as good as before? Can Solwhit win 3 grade 1's in 6 weeks?

I think the market spoke quite a bit about Quevega before the Mares race. The Mullins yard are very shrewd punters, yet there was little confidence behind her despite having what appeared to be zero opposition. That kind of told me that perhaps she was harder to get fit this year, and possibly not at her best. I think she should improve from that run.

At 9/4 it really has to be Quevega. She's going for her 4th title here and is as reliable as they come. We thought she might be declining last year and she beat VLV easy. Solwhit is classy but the 3 races in quick succesion, and the top class opponent makes me think he's opposable at Evens. Also, i'm a huge Carberry fan, but who would you rather, him or Ruby? Game of inches and all that. Purely a price decision, flip them and i'd be on Solwhit. That 9/4 won't last

The Mullins crew are shrewd punters alright but this seems to usually come to the fore when they've an unexposed one who they know is massively overpriced, Pont Alexandre first time out this year being an example. I doubt they've made too much from backing Quevega at her price these last few years and IIRC her price has nearly always eased before the Mares race as punters seek ew alternatives.

Like you though, I'll be backing Quevega on the basis of her price and mares allowance. Will Carberry definitely be riding Solwhit? Russell seems first choice for the ride regardless of how well Carberry has done.

Morgans

jimjamcos wrote: »

The Mullins crew are shrewd punters alright but this seems to usually come to the fore when they've an unexposed one who they know is massively overpriced, Pont Alexandre first time out this year being an example. I doubt they've made too much from backing Quevega at her price these last few years and IIRC her price has nearly always eased before the Mares race as punters seek ew alternatives.

Like you though, I'll be backing Quevega on the basis of her price and mares allowance. Will Carberry definitely be riding Solwhit? Russell seems first choice for the ride regardless of how well Carberry has done.

Are the Mullins shrewd punters? Is it a cliche like how every small trainer knows the time of day, when they have a good one?

Pont Alexandre opened at 5/4??? Briar Hill???

They have dozens of great horses and win plenty of big races, but they dont make me sit up and take note when one is punted when compared to the likes of Charles Byrnes.

Shane732

Solwhit 5/4 with Boyles and Paddy Power